Thread: Amps with a touch of warmth: Pass/Luxman/Antileon

Anyone had the chance to listen to all three of these? Curious which ones can retain great imaging, smooth treble, and lower midrange presence without many faults....
Or is this Tube City?

Originally Posted by Ricky64

Anyone had the chance to listen to all three of these? Curious which ones can retain great imaging, smooth treble, and lower midrange presence without many faults....
Or is this Tube City?

I have experience with Pass Labs and Luxman.

The Pass INT-60 is very warm sounding and will mate well with brighter speakers. I personally found it to be too smooth and in my set up lacked emotional involvement. It also lacked some lower mid bass while having very strong low bass output.

The Luxman integrated in my opinion on my systems offers a smooth yet more involving and dynamic listen. It also has more finesse than the Pass.

To my personal tastes there is no comparison on which I preferred as it was not even close (the Luxman by a million miles). BUT many people love the Pass so you need to see if you like it.

I also feel the Luxman feels of better quality than the Pass in terms of things like how the dials feel, remote control feel and responsiveness and such.

But only can decide what you like and what works in your system.

Originally Posted by MichaelsMinute

I have experience with Pass Labs and Luxman.

The Pass INT-60 is very warm sounding and will mate well with brighter speakers. I personally found it to be too smooth and in my set up lacked emotional involvement. It also lacked some lower mid bass while having very strong low bass output.

The Luxman integrated in my opinion on my systems offers a smooth yet more involving and dynamic listen. It also has more finesse than the Pass.

To my personal tastes there is no comparison on which I preferred as it was not even close (the Luxman by a million miles). BUT many people love the Pass so you need to see if you like it.

I also feel the Luxman feels of better quality than the Pass in terms of things like how the dials feel, remote control feel and responsiveness and such.

But only can decide what you like and what works in your system.

"" I also feel the Luxman feels of better quality than the Pass in terms of things like how the dials feel", my little xa30.5 feels pretty substantial @ 75 lbs, excellent build quality, of course it has no knobs. I guess it depends on which Pass.

Originally Posted by CPP

"" I also feel the Luxman feels of better quality than the Pass in terms of things like how the dials feel", my little xa30.5 feels pretty substantial @ 75 lbs, excellent build quality, of course it has no knobs. I guess it depends on which Pass.

I think it does.

On my INT-60 the volume spins with no resistance so it doesn't offer any feedback or feeling of silky smooth quality like on the Lux.

Also the remote on the Pass was not the most responsive with it often taking several pushes of the buttons to get a response. You also have to aim the remote exactly at the unit. This is not the case with the Lux.

Remote on the Pass looks a little more DIY with the button choice vs on the Lux.

Wife feels looking at them both the Lux looks "richer" and "more like a luxury product" than the Pass.

I think my INT-60 is in the 93 lbs range, so it's definitely heavy for sure!

My Pass power amp was about 100 lbs and built like a literal tank. The preamp has no power button and basic features so no need for a fancy remote, it was metal and substantial, the chassis was solid to be sure. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

The Pass sound is warm and on the polite side, I had no issues with bass, midbass or other, this may depend on speakers. Closest I've heard to tubes in a solid state design. Of course, tubes is general as they vary in sound as much as solid state anymore.

I eventually moved to Levinson which is closer to what I like to listen to, faster and more visceral and leaning more neutral. The Pass had more meat on the bone and textures, always a trade off it seems, LOL

Originally Posted by atmasphere

I've been playing a class D amp in my system that sounds just as smooth and relaxed as any tube amp I've heard. I don't miss the tube amps at all!

If you are comparing ClassD to your Atmasphere tooby Amps , i can believe its a step up and not missed for sure ... !



Regards

I've yet to hear Class D that was natural enough to be more pleasing than a Class A/B.

Originally Posted by atmasphere

I've been playing a class D amp in my system that sounds just as smooth and relaxed as any tube amp I've heard. I don't miss the tube amps at all!

I myself not heard a Class D amp that sounds as organic/pleasurable as a Class A amp yet.

So you are saying your Class D amps have non-linearities and distortion so therefore sound warm?

Originally Posted by atmasphere

Why?

Its the lower ordered harmonics that bring a touch of warmth to any amplifier. SETs have the most 'warmth', having the most prodigious 2nd harmonic generation of any amplifiers made.

In our class D (I can't speak for other designs) the non-linearities that cause distortion tend to make lower ordered harmonics. Overall they seem to sound a lot like our triode OTLs on that account, but owing to less distortion are more transparent (distortion tends to obscure detail). I rather doubt that our class D amps are unique in that regard but I could be wrong... So class D amps probably are on topic if their characteristics are similar.

Or am I missing something?

Ralph, nevermind, I read a post of yours on another thread and it made more sense to me. I am also familiar with the Bob Carver reference you referred to.

Anyone heard Aesthetix Atlas Eclipse?

Originally Posted by atmasphere

Thanks.

All amps have non-linearities! Its important to audiophiles what kind of distortion results. IME distortion is far more audible than most people think- in particular people that only look at measurements. This is simply because the ear converts distortion to tonality and that is the mechanism for how an amplifier has a 'sonic signature'.

I agree with you on this.

I never realized how audible it was until the first time I heard JBL horn speakers and I was stunned by the LACK of distortion / compression I was hearing in that sound. Voices had a purity to them I was not used to.

That may not be the right technical description as you are far more technical than I am, but that's what it sounded like to me that has hooked me on horn speakers ever since.

Originally Posted by atmasphere

If horns are properly designed they can be very low in distortion!

For sure. I was still really surprised the first time I heard decent horns. It was one of only a couple of epiphany moments for me in my audio journey over 40 years.

Originally Posted by MichaelsMinute

I think it does.

On my INT-60 the volume spins with no resistance so it doesn't offer any feedback or feeling of silky smooth quality like on the Lux.

Also the remote on the Pass was not the most responsive with it often taking several pushes of the buttons to get a response. You also have to aim the remote exactly at the unit. This is not the case with the Lux.

Remote on the Pass looks a little more DIY with the button choice vs on the Lux.

Wife feels looking at them both the Lux looks "richer" and "more like a luxury product" than the Pass.

I think my INT-60 is in the 93 lbs range, so it's definitely heavy for sure!

This post is a little late. But here goes...about 2 years ago I traveled to Sarasota and Suncoast Audio to compare 7 different integrated amps. The amps included the Pass int 60, Hegel 590, Naim Supernat 3, Luxman 509x, Moon 340ix, Gryphon D300, and VAC 170i. After about 6 hours of A/B-ing I decided on a Pass Labs int 250 and I couldn't be happier, However, my choice was based on the int 60, which I was extremely impressed with. ALL of the amps I auditioned were outstanding and I would be very contented to own any of them, for a lifetime. I never had the opportunity to audition the int 250 so I took a gamble and purchased the int 250. IMHO, from the standpoint of over all quality the Pass Labs int 250 was, at least, the equal of any of the amps I tried. That's one of the reasons I purchased it. At $12,500 I wanted to be darn sure regarding my choice. I couldn't agree more with you regarding the Luxman. Their products are second to none. But for my application the int 250 was the answer. I did get the opportunity to audition the int 60 with speakers identical to those I have at home (Harbeth Super HL 5+ 40th Anniversary). It sounded stellar. I also purchased the MSB Discrete DAC/streamer which added to the richness of the sound. But, this is not a true comparison between amps. Too many variables. I highly recommend either the Luxman or int 250. You can't lose either way. My ears and my 2 cents worth.

It just seemed to be a warmer sound to my ears. Someone else may think the opposite. But, after 2 years the int 250 sounds better and better. I also like the class A feature whereby the amp stays class A up to 15 watts then converts to class A/B. That's about it. It just has something the other amps I auditioned doesn't. It's an amp that's very pleasing to my ears. I don't know what else to say. As I said in my initial review, ALL the amps I auditioned sounded superb. But my ears liked the int 250 a little more than the others.

I migrated from NP DIY FirstWatt amps to the Atma-Sphere Class D amps.

Slightly on the warm side of neutral, with pleasant spectra. Easy to lift/carry, and light on the heat production. Both XLR, and RCA inputs. (I need XLR for long IC run)

Listen to them before all the complaining.