Amps for Raidho D3's

**Mike** · August 23, 2013, 02:13 PM

I've just placed my order yesterday for a new pair of Raidho D3's. I'm very much looking forward to getting them as I absolutely loved the D1's and D2's.

I have been auditioning amps/preamps for the better part of 3 months now. I have auditioned Constellation, Soulution, D'Agostino, Vitus, Boulder, Strumento and numerous others.

I have narrowed it down to Soulution 501/520 and D'Agostino Monos with either the Constellation Virgo or Soulution 520.

I have a dedicated 15 x 25 room.

I would welcome some thoughts on the matter. Thank you.

Mike

**joeinid** · August 23, 2013, 02:17 PM

My vote goes for the 520 and Dagostino monos.

**VT Skier** · August 23, 2013, 02:22 PM

Soulution 701s

**the professor** · August 23, 2013, 02:30 PM

I would like to hear the 520 dag combo.

**Dewster** · August 23, 2013, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

I've just placed my order yesterday for a new pair of Raidho D3's. I'm very much looking forward to getting them as I absolutely loved the D1's and D2's.

I have been auditioning amps/preamps for the better part of 3 months now. I have auditioned Constellation, Soulution, D'Agostino, Vitus, Boulder, Strumento and numerous others.

I have narrowed it down to Soulution 501/520 and D'Agostino Monos with either the Constellation Virgo or Soulution 520.

I have a dedicated 15 x 25 room.

I would welcome some thoughts on the matter. Thank you.

Mike

Def the D'Ag

**the professor** · August 23, 2013, 02:33 PM

Of course, if you can put up with the Dag preamp's weirdness, it does sound dang good.

**Mike** · August 23, 2013, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by the professor

Of course, if you can put up with the Dag preamp's weirdness, it does sound dang good.

I'm not sure I could!

**the professor** · August 23, 2013, 02:41 PM

Trust me, I understand.

Originally Posted by Mike

I'm not sure I could!

**joeinid** · August 23, 2013, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by the professor

Trust me, I understand.

The Dag pre was a mistake from the word go. It does sound great and the volume control is awesome but it was not ready for prime time. I should have gotten the Dag monos from the beginning.

**dlb2** · August 23, 2013, 03:15 PM

Coming from an all ARC system, you know the virtues of keeping it all in the family. Sure other gear will work together, but synergy is a very real thing. The D'ags have more power than the 501's but if it were me, I'd go with the 501/520 combo (as long as it's enough power for the D3's).

I still think you should get the amps first and listen to them (the D3's) using the REF10 if you still have it. You just never know...

**veindoc** · August 23, 2013, 03:20 PM

If they love and need power I am sure 1 or 2 Viola Symphony amps would be very nice.I originally heard Raidho with Rowland 725 and that was beautiful but was only D1.1. Wasn't there a Sims audio amp you were contemplating? If possible audition in your room with your speakers. You may not need monoblocks.
Nick

**socfan12** · August 23, 2013, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by Dewster

Def the D'Ag

+1!!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

**johnthomas** · August 23, 2013, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by joeinid

The Dag pre was a mistake from the word go. It does sound great and the volume control is awesome but it was not ready for prime time. I should have gotten the Dag monos from the beginning.

Sell them and Mike you and I get Dag monos

**joeinid** · August 23, 2013, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by johnthomas

Sell them and Mike you and I get Dag monos

**NorthStar** · August 23, 2013, 04:40 PM

Congrats Mike, and good luck on mating them!

* By the way, 608 members.

**Mike** · August 23, 2013, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by NorthStar

Congrats Mike, and good luck on mating them!

* By the way, 608 members.

Rock on!

**NorthStar** · August 23, 2013, 05:01 PM

Right on right on right on!

**highEndguy** · August 23, 2013, 05:23 PM

608 !!!!!!
Congrats

**Mike** · August 23, 2013, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by highEndguy

608 !!!!!!
Congrats

Thanks everyone for making AS "the little audio forum that could!"

**NorthStar** · August 23, 2013, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by highEndguy

608 !!!!!!
Congrats

That's a very good (real) number for less than five months. ...Since April 4th.
...And always so peaceful here. ...No pressure, no stress, no bad anything. ...Just pure love, of the music & people.

**highEndguy** · August 23, 2013, 06:19 PM

Quantity is important but the quality of people that
We have here is what is most important .
The best of the best !!!!

**NorthStar** · August 23, 2013, 06:42 PM

Yes Nelson, you got it perfectly right!

Quality is measured by the grandeur of people's heart. ...The more of that the merrier.

With big heart came great knowledge.
With super power came great responsibilities.

**Jack** · August 23, 2013, 07:57 PM

Mike, something different to consider from one of the long term amp designers, but not a "reviewer flavor of the month", the Music Reference RM-200. Roger's reputation for great tube amps goes back to his days with Beveridge in 1978. His classic RM-9 and RM-10 have both been audiophile favorites for almost 25 years. This recommendation is based on if the heat from the quad of KT-88's or 6550's will not be an issue for you in South Central Florida. I have owned one of Roger's amps for over a decade and have never had an urge to move it. Music Reference RM-200 Vacuum Tube Amplifer.

**joeinid** · August 23, 2013, 08:20 PM

Jack,

Music Reference amps are supposed to be phenomenal. A friend recommends them highly to me and I plan on trying them in the future.

**Jack** · August 23, 2013, 08:46 PM

Joe, I have never heard the RM-200, but I have heard the classic RM-9 and own an RM-10. If you want to hear one I would watch A-Gon and pick up a used RM-9. With it you can use KT-88's, 6550's and even EL-34's. I keep watching the site in hopes of picking up an RM-9 at a fair price. Unfortunately most of them are going for several times what there new price was. I picked up my RM-10 for $500 in mint condition and now Roger is selling them for over $2400. This would be a good deal on the RM-9 in todays market. Music Reference RM-9 MK1 Excellent, great sounding versatile 100 watt Tube amplifier | Tube | Fairfax, Virginia 22030 | AudiogoN - The High-end Audio Community

**Mike** · August 23, 2013, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by Jack

Mike, something different to consider from one of the long term amp designers, but not a "reviewer flavor of the month", the Music Reference RM-200. Roger's reputation for great tube amps goes back to his days with Beveridge in 1978. His classic RM-9 and RM-10 have both been audiophile favorites for almost 25 years. This recommendation is based on if the heat from the quad of KT-88's or 6550's will not be an issue for you in South Central Florida. I have owned one of Roger's amps for over a decade and have never had an urge to move it. Music Reference RM-200 Vacuum Tube Amplifer.

Thanks Jack! I will definitely look into those. One problem though - tubes and Raidho's don't mix. The D1's were completely uncontrolled with my ARC REF 250's - and they are superb amps that tame my big Aida's and even Revels! But when I put them on my Raidho's, there was more flab than an old lady getting out of the tub.

Do you have any Solid State favorites?

**Jack** · August 23, 2013, 09:19 PM

Mike, the Music Reference amps are not "tubey" at all. I have owned Roger's amps and preamps and they are dead neutral. From talking to Richard Vandersteen about them, he found them to have much more bottom end control with his speakers than did the ARC's or the CJ's. If you want to look at "classic" SS amps, them I would look at the AVA Fet Valve amps avahifi - Fet Valve 400R and 600R Hybrid Power Amplifiers and the Belles Reference Series 350a. Both of these designers go back over 30 years. Another option would be any of the current Parasound amplifiers designed by John Curl or Nelson Pass's current series which the guys at Tone Audio seem to love.

**iamhifi** · August 23, 2013, 09:51 PM

Mike congrats on your D3 purchase, once you decide on amps and preamp match it with the Valhalla 2, then you are rolling. Oh then use the Valhalla 2 with the Aida and ARC gear and tell us the outcome.

**cmalak** · August 23, 2013, 10:20 PM

Mike...congrats on the D3. I replied to your PM but in case you did not see it, the 520 and D'Ag Mono combo should work well from an impedance matching perspective. In fact, any amp with the 520 should work well from an impedance matching perspective. It's output impedance of 10 ohms means it can drive anything. There should be no tonal aberrations due to imppedance mismatch between the preamp and amp. Whether they will do it for you as a combo sonically is a different story and only you can answer that once you hook them up to the D3s with your cabling in your room (unless your able to borrow said combo from a local dealer to demo in your setup which obviously would be the ideal way to go if possible before pulling the trigger). Good luck!

**Mike** · August 23, 2013, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by Jack

Mike, the Music Reference amps are not "tubey" at all. I have owned Roger's amps and preamps and they are dead neutral. From talking to Richard Vandersteen about them, he found them to have much more bottom end control with his speakers than did the ARC's or the CJ's. If you want to look at "classic" SS amps, them I would look at the AVA Fet Valve amps avahifi - Fet Valve 400R and 600R Hybrid Power Amplifiers and the Belles Reference Series 350a. Both of these designers go back over 30 years. Another option would be any of the current Parasound amplifiers designed by John Curl or Nelson Pass's current series which the guys at Tone Audio seem to love.

Thanks Jack!

**Mike** · August 23, 2013, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by cmalak

Mike...congrats on the D3. I replied to your PM but in case you did not see it, the 520 and D'Ag Mono combo should work well from an impedance matching perspective. In fact, any amp with the 520 should work well from an impedance matching perspective. It's output impedance of 10 ohms means it can drive anything. There should be no tonal aberrations due to imppedance mismatch between the preamp and amp. Whether they will do it for you as a combo sonically is a different story and only you can answer that once you hook them up to the D3s with your cabling in your room (unless your able to borrow said combo from a local dealer to demo in your setup which obviously would be the ideal way to go if possible before pulling the trigger). Good luck!

Thanks Cyril! I knew you would know!

**Mike** · August 23, 2013, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by iamhifi

Mike congrats on your D3 purchase, once you decide on amps and preamp match it with the Valhalla 2, then you are rolling. Oh then use the Valhalla 2 with the Aida and ARC gear and tell us the outcome.

Thanks! I am also considering Raidho's new line of cables called Ansuz.

**cmalak** · August 23, 2013, 10:34 PM

Mike...another suggestion to consider is the Soulution 530 integrated. Should be able to drive the D3s very well (125wpc into 8ohms, 250wpc into 4ohms, and 500woc into 2ohms) and more importantly damping factor of >10,000 (vs. ARC Ref 250's DF of 10), which will take those woofer bins on the D3 and make them it's beeeehaaaatch! (errr....excuse my swiss french

). One box solution (a big box but one box nonetheless

) and you know the preaamp and amp portions will match perfectly. One less set of cables and should come in well under the 520/D'Ag mono combo. Just another thought to consider.

**Mike** · August 23, 2013, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by cmalak

Mike...another suggestion to consider is the Soulution 530 integrated. Should be able to drive the D3s very well (125wpc into 8ohms, 250wpc into 4ohms, and 500woc into 2ohms) and more importantly damping factor of >10,000 (vs. ARC Ref 250's DF of 10), which will take those woofer bins on the D3 and make them it's beeeehaaaatch! (errr....excuse my swiss french

). One box solution (a big box but one box nonetheless

) and you know the preaamp and amp portions will match perfectly. One less set of cables and should come in well under the 520/D'Ag mono combo. Just another thought to consider.

Thanks Cyril - I can always count on you! Scary smart. The 530 is definitely an option. How does the 501/520 combo stack up against the 530 in your opinion (spec wise).

**joeinid** · August 23, 2013, 10:48 PM

I like that idea Cyril!

**Mike** · August 23, 2013, 10:51 PM

10,000 vs 10. Wow. No wonder I heard what I heard!

**cmalak** · August 23, 2013, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Thanks Cyril - I can always count on you! Scary smart. The 530 is definitely an option. How does the 501/520 combo stack up against the 530 in your opinion (spec wise).

Output specs between the 501 monos and the 530 integrated are essentially identical (output power, THD distortion, slew rate, damping factor...) all the same. The 530 literally looks like a 520 pre and a set of 501 monos rolled into one case!

**joeinid** · August 23, 2013, 11:41 PM

I know that at some of the trade shows, Raidho speakers are demoed with big tube amps. I'd like to hear the D3 with CJ ART monos. Any opinions?

**Paul** · August 23, 2013, 11:47 PM

I heard the Raidho goes well with Tenor Audio 175S

**rded** · August 23, 2013, 11:52 PM

I have heard D3s with Burmester 911s. It was magnificent!! That Burmester stack/D3s made my system sound broken!

Also heard D1s with T+A PA 3000 HV! That was really nice, smooth and articulate as well.

**Paul** · August 23, 2013, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by rded

I have heard D3s with Burmester 911s. It was magnificent!! That Burmester stack/D3s made my system sound broken!

Also heard D1s with T+A PA 3000 HV! That was really nice, smooth and articulate as well.

Hello rded ,

Welcome to AS

**rded** · August 24, 2013, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by BlueMcIntosh

Hello rded ,

Welcome to AS

Thanks!

**joeinid** · August 24, 2013, 12:12 AM

Welcome to the forum rded!

I had Burmester and I really think you are correct. Burmester and Raihdo would probably be killer.

**rded** · August 24, 2013, 12:35 AM

Originally Posted by joeinid

Welcome to the forum rded!

I had Burmester and I really think you are correct. Burmester and Raihdo would probably be killer.

Yes indeed! The D3s were so much more sonically transparent and real when compared to the Magico Q5s/BAlabo, CH precison Pre and CDP with Argento cables!

**AudioSalon** · August 24, 2013, 02:23 AM

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Iss...s/P1011928.jpg

From the 2008 RMAF, Burmester with Raidho & Odins.

**AudioSalon** · August 24, 2013, 02:23 AM

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Iss...s/P1011928.jpg

From the 2008 RMAF, Burmester with Raidho & Odins.

**sharkmouth** · August 24, 2013, 03:03 AM

My vote goes to the Soulution 530, but I am biased. Not big on the Burmester look!

**Jazzhead** · August 24, 2013, 03:38 AM

Originally Posted by joeinid

The Dag pre was a mistake from the word go. It does sound great and the volume control is awesome but it was not ready for prime time. I should have gotten the Dag monos from the beginning.

Hi Joe , interesting that observation " I should have gotten the Dag monos from the beginning"... care to elaborate on it . Did you compare the two, the D'Ag' no longer with you , have you moved on ? Interested in knowing thanks .

**joeinid** · August 24, 2013, 05:01 AM

There are some operational issues that drive me nuts with the preamp. I really have no issues with how it sounds. I have not compared the stereo amp to the monos for ultimate sound quality but I believe any differences would be minor. Having the mono amps world give me more power and the ability to drive any speakers. I find the Dagostino amp seems to be excellent with a variety of preamps such as my Dartzeel and upcoming Conrad Johnson GAT and EAR 868. I know my previous pass xp30 would have been an excellent match for the Dagostino amp. I don't think my initial thoughts about the Dagostino preamp being the best combo were founded. I know of someone using a McIntosh C2300 with the Dagostino amp and he loves the combo.

**Anatta** · August 24, 2013, 06:32 AM

Between these options I'd go with the Soulution combo, but before you drop a bucket of cash on them I really think you should try the Audionet amps from Germany. They are designed as the Soulutions to be very low distortion, high speed, high damping factor (10000). The MAX monos are a much better deal at $26k/pair and sound just as good IMO, not to mention they're more powerful than the 501s.

What I don't like about Soulution is the ripoff prices they charge now for their products. In 2005, when the brand was unknown, a 710 cost was 18k Euros in Germany, with inflation it should be now about 21k Euros, but it goes for 37k Euros; 16k added just because it got good reviews and became an established high end brand. I hate it when a manufacturer does this. The US prices are worse still.

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