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  1. #1
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    Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    Here is a nice review of this great little amp. I love mine.


    http://dagogo.com/bob-carver-black-m...plifier-review

    Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

    Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE

    NAD C 658 streamer.

    First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)

    Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.

    Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.

  2. #2
    Joe.....you get the Black Magic and Cornwall's playing yet?
    Dealer / Manufacture Disclosure:

    Jeff Whitlock
    A/V Solutions / Unity Audio Design
    www.avsolutionsca.com

    ​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

  3. #3
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    Hi Jeff,

    Not yet. Hopefully in the next couple of weeks. I've actually been using my TADs lately. It's pretty awesome on them too. I'm really enjoying my late night listening sessions.
    Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

    Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE

    NAD C 658 streamer.

    First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)

    Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.

    Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.

  4. #4
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    Great...I love the EL84 sounds especially mate with the Cardas Golden Reference I/C.

    Thank you for sharing.
    Paul

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueMcIntosh View Post
    Great...I love the EL84 sounds especially mate with the Cardas Golden Reference I/C.

    Thank you for sharing.
    Paul it's a wonderful little amp.
    Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

    Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE

    NAD C 658 streamer.

    First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)

    Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.

    Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.

  6. #6
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    I bet that sounds great Joe. Have you tried any different brand of tubes besides that OEM ones? I think the only thing that would bug me is reaching around back to turn it on and off. What's the knob for?
    Doug



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlb2 View Post
    I bet that sounds great Joe. Have you tried any different brand of tubes besides that OEM ones? I think the only thing that would bug me is reaching around back to turn it on and off. What's the knob for?
    It really does sound great. I have not tried different tubes. The EL84M's it comes with are higher voltage versions (I hope Jeff Whitlock confirms this) because that's how they achieve 20 wpc. I think regular tubes could cause a problem. The knob adjusts the input volume. It's not a volume control in the strictest sense but can be used like that, and I do.

    VACUUM TUBES

    The EL84M output tubes do not need to be matched. That's because the DC restorer circuit eliminates that need.

    Please note, we have selected the “M” version of the EL84 because it has a higher plate volt-age rating than the “non-M” tubes made by many manufacturers.
    This is how we achieve a full 20 watts per channel output power by using just one pair each of EL84M tubes. We do not guarantee that replacing these tubes with non-M EL84s will work. Red plating may occur (meaning the tubes will glow red hot)


    Looking at the amplifier from the front, the two smaller 12AX7 tubes go right behind the “roll bar”, the EL84M tubes are installed in the four sockets behind them.


    VOLUME CONTROL

    Under normal circumstances, this control should be left in the maximum (fully clockwise) position. If you
    have a noisy preamp, turning it halfway down and centering it at the 12:00 o'clock position will reduce
    the preamp noise by half, or 6 dB. It should always be turned all the way down when connecting or dis-
    connecting any input or output in your system. Connect RCA patch cords from your preamp to the RCA
    audio input jacks on the back of this unit.


    Note:

    You may also directly connect a piece of “line level” source equipment to this amplifier with no
    preamp and use the volume pot on the amp to adjust the volume. Phonographs cannot be directly to this
    amplifier without the use of a phono-prestage preamplifier.
    Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

    Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE

    NAD C 658 streamer.

    First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)

    Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.

    Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by joeinid View Post
    It really does sound great. I have not tried different tubes. The EL84M's it comes with are higher voltage versions (I hope Jeff Whitlock confirms this) because that's how they achieve 20 wpc. I think regular tubes could cause a problem. The knob adjusts the input volume. It's not a volume control in the strictest sense but can be used like that, and I do.

    VACUUM TUBES

    The EL84M output tubes do not need to be matched. That's because the DC restorer circuit eliminates that need.

    Please note, we have selected the “M” version of the EL84 because it has a higher plate volt-age rating than the “non-M” tubes made by many manufacturers.
    This is how we achieve a full 20 watts per channel output power by using just one pair each of EL84M tubes. We do not guarantee that replacing these tubes with non-M EL84s will work. Red plating may occur (meaning the tubes will glow red hot)


    Looking at the amplifier from the front, the two smaller 12AX7 tubes go right behind the “roll bar”, the EL84M tubes are installed in the four sockets behind them.


    VOLUME CONTROL

    Under normal circumstances, this control should be left in the maximum (fully clockwise) position. If you
    have a noisy preamp, turning it halfway down and centering it at the 12:00 o'clock position will reduce
    the preamp noise by half, or 6 dB. It should always be turned all the way down when connecting or dis-
    connecting any input or output in your system. Connect RCA patch cords from your preamp to the RCA
    audio input jacks on the back of this unit.


    Note:

    You may also directly connect a piece of “line level” source equipment to this amplifier with no
    preamp and use the volume pot on the amp to adjust the volume. Phonographs cannot be directly to this
    amplifier without the use of a phono-prestage preamplifier.
    Confirmed......
    Dealer / Manufacture Disclosure:

    Jeff Whitlock
    A/V Solutions / Unity Audio Design
    www.avsolutionsca.com

    ​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by A/V Solutions View Post
    Confirmed......
    Thanks Jeff.

    You were right about this little amp. Thank you again.
    Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

    Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE

    NAD C 658 streamer.

    First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)

    Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.

    Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.

  10. #10
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    Thanks for the info. Joe.
    Doug



  11. #11
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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

    Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE

    NAD C 658 streamer.

    First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)

    Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.

    Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.

  12. #12

    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    I was admiring this earlier today.Where did you buy yours if you don't mind me asking?
    Sadly I have no dealers nearby to give it a listen.

  13. #13
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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    Quote Originally Posted by TubeBias View Post
    I was admiring this earlier today.Where did you buy yours if you don't mind me asking?
    Sadly I have no dealers nearby to give it a listen.
    I bought it from Jeff Whitlock of A/V Solutions here on the forum. Awesome dealer!

    Home Page

    Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

    Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE

    NAD C 658 streamer.

    First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)

    Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.

    Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.

  14. #14

    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    Quote Originally Posted by joeinid View Post
    I bought it from Jeff Whitlock of A/V Solutions here on the forum. Awesome dealer!

    Home Page

    +1000 on that!


    Allen



  15. #15
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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    Quote Originally Posted by TubeBias View Post
    I was admiring this earlier today.Where did you buy yours if you don't mind me asking?
    Sadly I have no dealers nearby to give it a listen.
    I think this little thing Joe has for the longest in his possession
    Dewey,

    "If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking." - George S. Patton

  16. #16
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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dewster View Post
    I think this little thing Joe has for the longest in his possession
    Pretty close to it.
    Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

    Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE

    NAD C 658 streamer.

    First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)

    Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.

    Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.

  17. #17

    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    Quote Originally Posted by joeinid View Post
    I bought it from Jeff Whitlock of A/V Solutions here on the forum. Awesome dealer!

    Home Page

    Thank you.

  18. #18

    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dewster View Post
    I think this little thing Joe has for the longest in his possession
    Quote Originally Posted by joeinid View Post
    Pretty close to it.
    Ha!! He's the only bloke I know of that is using a darTZeel amp for cable lifters, you're too much sometimes Joe. Then again I was really proud of myself using a milk crate, 2x4 & a brick for a rack for my MSB Diamond DAC.

  19. #19
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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    Quote Originally Posted by bzr View Post
    Ha!! He's the only bloke I know of that is using a darTZeel amp for cable lifters, you're too much sometimes Joe. Then again I was really proud of myself using a milk crate, 2x4 & a brick for a rack for my MSB Diamond DAC.
    Ha! Hey, nothing works better than a Dart to raise your cable
    Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

    Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE

    NAD C 658 streamer.

    First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)

    Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.

    Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.

  20. #20
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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    Quote Originally Posted by bzr View Post
    Ha!! He's the only bloke I know of that is using a darTZeel amp for cable lifters, you're too much sometimes Joe. Then again I was really proud of myself using a milk crate, 2x4 & a brick for a rack for my MSB Diamond DAC.
    You know when you've reached "Baller" status
    Dewey,

    "If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking." - George S. Patton

  21. #21
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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    I realize I'm pulling this thread from the grave a bit; but I just took one of Joe's Black Magic, off his hands...and I couldn't be more excited!

    I've always had an eye on this little beauty; because I think it looks like a million bucks...and I'm hoping it sounds as good too.

    I've always wanted to "get small"...with a SET, and some really high-efficiency speakers. And while I realize this isn't a SET; I am hoping for a little EL-84 magic...paired with some full-range Omega A8s I scored.

    Not replacing the 30.1s certainly (or the KEFs, lol); but...as a sweet, little 2nd system (or 3rd, or 4th...depending on how you count these things). As I said...couldn't be more excited

  22. #22
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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    Thanks Chris,

    It could not have come at a better time. I guess you should have it in your hands soon so please keep us updated.

    Enjoy it. I'm sure it's not even broken in yet because I never used that one.
    Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

    Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE

    NAD C 658 streamer.

    First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)

    Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.

    Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.

  23. #23
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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    Quote Originally Posted by joeinid View Post
    Thanks Chris,

    It could not have come at a better time. I guess you should have it in your hands soon so please keep us updated.

    Enjoy it. I'm sure it's not even broken in yet because I never used that one.
    Happy to contribute...to the joeinid-strad-fund

    Amp arrives today; Omegas not until Thursday

  24. #24
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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    Nice

    Congrats
    Jock

    If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters.

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    House: Naim ND555/2PS, Naim 552, Naim 500, Studer A80/Doshi V3, Magico M2s, 2 Magico Q-Sub 15s, Lumina IC/SC, Shunyata Everest and Omega PCs.

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  25. #25
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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    Quote Originally Posted by joeinid View Post
    Thanks Chris,

    It could not have come at a better time. I guess you should have it in your hands soon so please keep us updated.

    Enjoy it. I'm sure it's not even broken in yet because I never used that one.
    Joe, you're my hero!

    Definitely let us know how you like it Chris.
    Doug



  26. #26
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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    Quote Originally Posted by dlb2 View Post
    Joe, you're my hero!

    Definitely let us know how you like it Chris.
    You bet; and pix!

  27. #27
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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    That should be a wonderful combination.
    Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

    Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE

    NAD C 658 streamer.

    First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)

    Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.

    Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.

  28. #28
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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    Magic in da house! Here's a little teaser pic (and if you want to know about the rest of the set-up; just take a peek at the sig

    P1000970.JPG

    Last edited by joeinid; July 15, 2014 at 08:03 PM.
    CD

    DAC/Pre-amp - PSAudio DsJ > Power-amp - > Speakers - PMC TwentyFive 23s

  29. #29

    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    Quote Originally Posted by dlb2 View Post
    Joe, you're my hero!

    Definitely let us know how you like it Chris.
    +1, on both counts!


    Allen



  30. #30
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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    I never even opened the box.
    Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

    Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE

    NAD C 658 streamer.

    First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)

    Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.

    Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.

  31. #31
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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    Quote Originally Posted by joeinid View Post
    I never even opened the box.
    Hey, 1 out of 2 isn't bad!


    Time to pop some tubes in that beauty Chris.
    Doug



  32. #32

    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    My trusted dealer swears by these and he carries stuff in the stratosphere

  33. #33
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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    Joe

    It would be an interesting comparison/test when you get the RM-10 sorted out to see what you think about the two designers different execution of the EL-84 amplifier. Just need to have a speaker on hand that will play nice with both of them.

  34. #34
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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...



    Ha!

    Quote Originally Posted by dlb2 View Post
    Hey, 1 out of 2 isn't bad!


    Time to pop some tubes in that beauty Chris.
    Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

    Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE

    NAD C 658 streamer.

    First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)

    Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.

    Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.

  35. #35
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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    Quote Originally Posted by dlb2 View Post
    Hey, 1 out of 2 isn't bad!


    Time to pop some tubes in that beauty Chris.
    Agreed! The pre-amp tubes (ax7s), literally say 12ax7(b) and 'China'; and that's it...lol. By all accounts, that makes them Shuguang; and while I'm not denigrating them...we can do better, yes? I have some NOS Mullards, that I'll pop in...once the Omegas drop.

    As for EL-84s; that's a new beast to me. I know the BM, has 'M' version EL-84s, which are supposed to have a higher current tolerance; but I don't think I have to worry about running out of juice, with the 96db A8s So...I am open to suggestions!

    Now...as soon as Joe, sends me that remote; I'll be all set.
    CD

    DAC/Pre-amp - PSAudio DsJ > Power-amp - > Speakers - PMC TwentyFive 23s

  36. #36
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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    Ha!

    I'll get right on it.

    Just be careful with tube substitution.

    Quote Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post
    Agreed! The pre-amp tubes (ax7s), literally say 12ax7(b) and 'China'; and that's it...lol. By all accounts, that makes them Shuguang; and while I'm not denigrating them...we can do better, yes? I have some NOS Mullards, that I'll pop in...once the Omegas drop.

    As for EL-84s; that's a new beast to me. I know the BM, has 'M' version EL-84s, which are supposed to have a higher current tolerance; but I don't think I have to worry about running out of juice, with the 96db A8s So...I am open to suggestions!

    Now...as soon as Joe, sends me that remote; I'll be all set.
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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    Quote Originally Posted by joeinid View Post
    Ha!

    I'll get right on it.

    Just be careful with tube substitution.
    What's your concern, tube-wise Joseph?

    I already have the Mullard CV4004s; I think I'll also try some TungSol in the pre-amp spot.

    As for EL-84s; Tungsram sound intriguing...and you can never go wrong with Gold Lions!
    CD

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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    I think the version in the Carver are run harder. I am not sure if that means increased voltage too. I've never tried rolling them.
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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    Quote Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post
    What's your concern, tube-wise Joseph?

    I already have the Mullard CV4004s; I think I'll also try some TungSol in the pre-amp spot.

    As for EL-84s; Tungsram sound intriguing...and you can never go wrong with Gold Lions!
    Don't know what you're looking at price wise on the EL-84's, but you can't go wrong with some Amperex or Mazda's. Of course there's always the Telefunken's. It all depends on what you like. Shoot Nikolay at Tube Maze an email, he always does a nice job with recommendations.
    Doug



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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    Carver’s circuit topology is fairly simple. The input signal first passes through a 250k ohm volume control and is then amplified by one half of a 12AX7. The second half of the 12AX7 is configured as a cathodyne phase-splitter. That’s it—no driver stage is used. The push-pull output stage is pentode connected and uses a pair of self-biased El84Ms per channel. I estimated the anode dissipation to be about 11 watts, which is well within the 14W maximum rating of an El84M. Bob Carver indicated that the bias is actually set for a nominal plate dissipation of 10.5 watts to allow for tube variation. Note that the El84M is a mil- spec version of the standard sovtek El84 with extended voltage tolerance, improved plate dissipation, and rugged construction.

    I would not recommend substitution of a standard El84, as it is only rated for a maximum dissipation of 12 watts.


    http://www.theabsolutesound.com/arti...wer-amplifier/
    Last edited by joeinid; July 16, 2014 at 05:14 PM.
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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    Quote Originally Posted by joeinid View Post
    Carver’s circuit topology is fairly simple. The input signal first passes through a 250k ohm volume control and is then amplified by one half of a 12AX7. The second half of the 12AX7 is configured as a cathodyne phase-splitter. That’s it—no driver stage is used. The push-pull output stage is pentode connected and uses a pair of self-biased El84Ms per channel. I estimated the anode dissipation to be about 11 watts, which is well within the 14W maximum rating of an El84M. Bob Carver indicated that the bias is actually set for a nominal plate dissipation of 10.5 watts to allow for tube variation. Note that the El84M is a mil- spec version of the standard sovtek El84 with extended voltage tolerance, improved plate dissipation, and rugged construction.

    I would not recommend substitution of a standard El84, as it is only rated for a maximum dissipation of 12 watts.


    Bob Carver VTA20S ?Black Magic? Power Amplifier | The Absolute Sound
    Oh yeah; well I think 'ole Dick Olsher, is just scurred.

    No...it's a point well-taken Joe; and thanks for the heads-up. I'll discuss it, with some gurus; and make sure they don't think I'll blow my little Magic up.
    CD

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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    Chris

    You might want to contact Roger Modjeski or his people at his tube store and see what they say. I know that Roger's tube testing standards are probably the highest in the Industry and he has been selling the same EL-84 based amp for over 25 years with an output of 35 WPC. He may be familiar with Carver's design and can give you some guidance as to what tubes to stay away from.

    Music Reference | RAM Tubeworks

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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    +1

    Excellent advice Jack.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Chris

    You might want to contact Roger Modjeski or his people at his tube store and see what they say. I know that Roger's tube testing standards are probably the highest in the Industry and he has been selling the same EL-84 based amp for over 25 years with an output of 35 WPC. He may be familiar with Carver's design and can give you some guidance as to what tubes to stay away from.

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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    Hmm...from the man himself:

    The Russian EL84M tube types are a copy of the 7189 Military Spec tube type that have a larger bottle, and more double the getters than a standard EL84 tube type...

    These EL84M sound better than the standard EL84 tube type, and are highly recommended.

    But what fun is it, if I can't r o l l?
    CD

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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    If by the "man himself" you mean Bob, I wouldn't pay much attention to it. I would seek the opinion of a long term tube amp designer instead of one that moves from one business model to the next. His "simple" circuit should be easily interpreted by someone who has designed tube amps long term or a competent tube amp tech.

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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    If by the "man himself" you mean Bob, I wouldn't pay much attention to it. I would seek the opinion of a long term tube amp designer instead of one that moves from one business model to the next. His "simple" circuit should be easily interpreted by someone who has designed tube amps long term or a competent tube amp tech.
    Ouch; harsh words, for Mr. Carver.

    But actually...that was lifted from Roger Modjeski's site.
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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    Chris

    Not being harsh about Bob, but he has in fact "moved around" a lot with a lot of different company structures. As to the tubes if Roger says the EL-84M's are more durable, then I would believe him. In every tube class their were consumer tubes and Military spec'ed tubes. The Mil spec tubes had to have a guaranteed life span according to the contract. Consumer tubes had no such guaranty.

  48. #48
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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Chris

    Not being harsh about Bob, but he has in fact "moved around" a lot with a lot of different company structures. As to the tubes if Roger says the EL-84M's are more durable, then I would believe him. In every tube class their were consumer tubes and Military spec'ed tubes. The Mil spec tubes had to have a guaranteed life span according to the contract. Consumer tubes had no such guaranty.
    Well...durability is one thing; but he says...and I quote "these EL84M sound better than the standard EL84 tube type". That's pretty definitive stuff!

    Oh well; maybe I'll have to buy a second EL-84-based unit...just to do some rolling
    CD

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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    If the EL-84M's have to meet a contract spec and guaranty then they would be hand picked. The same thing as buying a quad of tubes as opposed to a "matched quad." If you want to try a long term tested EL-84 based amp then try to find a used RM-10. I have owned mine for 14 years and never been disappointed. At 35 wpc, it works with speakers 85db and above. It was a perfect match with Reynaud, Soliloquy, Platinum, Meadowlark and Green Mountain. It even pushed the Vandersteen 2CE Sigs to over 90db in a moderate sized room.

  50. #50
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    Re: Bob Carver ‘Black Magic’ VTA 20S Tube Amplifier Review from Dagogo.com ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    If the EL-84M's have to meet a contract spec and guaranty then they would be hand picked. The same thing as buying a quad of tubes as opposed to a "matched quad." If you want to try a long term tested EL-84 based amp then try to find a used RM-10. I have owned mine for 14 years and never been disappointed. At 35 wpc, it works with speakers 85db and above. It was a perfect match with Reynaud, Soliloquy, Platinum, Meadowlark and Green Mountain. It even pushed the Vandersteen 2CE Sigs to over 90db in a moderate sized room.
    Thanks Jack; I'll keep an eye out. If I decide to stray from the BM; I might try a cheapie Jolida JD102CRC.
    CD

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