Why no turntable?

I can see the attraction to vinyl, but for me personally I’ve been spoiled by the convenience of Roon and Lumin.

When I got back into Audio I was going to build a budget system around a pair of Snell speakers I bought in 1993, this included a turn table - the budget was blown and no turntable.

I now want to add a simple vinyl system, despite wanting Brinkmann, betting on my foundation will give a serious contribution in sound quality, and I am not going over the top, I can’t and won’t!

Right now I am interested in Clear Audio top of the line Concept and their balanced Phono Stage, for less then $5000 unless anyone else has a suggestion in this league.


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UltraFast69 said:

When I got back into Audio I was going to build a budget system around a pair of Snell speakers I bought in 1993, this included a turn table - the budget was blown and no turntable.

I now want to add a simple vinyl system betting on my foundation will make up the difference, and not going over the top, can’t and won’t!

I am interested in Clear Audio Concept and their balanced Phono Stage, for less then $5000.


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Click to expand...

Excellent choice.


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Personally, I wouldn't be happy if all I had was a single source to play music in my system.

unpopular opinion, but I feel digital is much better at the lower levels.

the analog investment for vinyl is high for playback as well as media. that said, analog re-masters on a good TT setup are the cat's meow and make it worth the effort. i have a half mastered Everything but the Girl album in transit that will never be on digital.

Vinyl lover

timely thread...

two years ago i began building + remaking my system. at the time i chose to only focus on digital as a source, leaving the decision on analog to a later date. well, i am close to being finished which, therefore, puts me back at the point where i can consider adding analog as a source.

i would really, really love to add analog but i would be starting from zero... i have no LP library and do not have much experience in "hi-end" analog. also, for all the reasons you list, i ask myself if it is really worth it. more importantly though, would i be able create an analog source that i am as happy with as i am my digital source?

the extra effort, care + feeding, etc. would be totally worth it for me... IF i knew i could end up with an analog source that is at least as good as my digital source. problem is, i don't really know where to start and that makes it seem like a process of trial and error... and iterating through components to get to that point is probably inefficient / expensive.

so from your perspective mike, there is probably a lot of product education that could be done, even for folks like me who grew up when vinyl was king. anything that would make it easier and give more confidence in the end result would, i think, induce more people jump into the pool... the last thing i would want to do is spend multiples of what my digital source cost to not end up with something i was happy with.

As much as I enjoy my digital CD and Streaming setup, I do like the physical media of an album that I can play with.

I predict my usage will be

Streaming/NAS - 80%
CD - 5% - 10%
Turntable 15% - 20%


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aKnyght said:

timely thread...

two years ago i began building + remaking my system. at the time i chose to only focus on digital as a source, leaving the decision on analog to a later date. well, i am close to being finished which, therefore, puts me back at the point where i can consider adding analog as a source.

i would really, really love to add analog but i would be starting from zero... i have no LP library and do not have much experience in "hi-end" analog. also, for all the reasons you list, i ask myself if it is really worth it. more importantly though, would i be able create an analog source that i am as happy with as i am my digital source?

the extra effort, care + feeding, etc. would be totally worth it for me... IF i knew i could end up with an analog source that is at least as good as my digital source. problem is, i don't really know where to start and that makes it seem like a process of trial and error... and iterating through components to get to that point is probably inefficient / expensive.

so from your perspective mike, there is probably a lot of product education that could be done, even for folks like me who grew up when vinyl was king. anything that would make it easier and give more confidence in the end result would, i think, induce more people jump into the pool... the last thing i would want to do is spend multiples of what my digital source cost to not end up with something i was happy with.

Click to expand...

Well, there is a great collective of expertise here on Audioshark. What I always start with is a budget. You will want:

- a turntable
- tonearm
- cartridge
- Phonostage
- (maybe) turntable cable (some TT’s come with cables)
- AudioQuest record cleaning brush (cheap and good!)
- record cleaning machine

It isn’t really an arduous task. Travel over to Acoustic Sounds and pick 10 of your favorite albums. That’s it. Start with 10. Pink Floyd DSOTM perhaps? Fleetwood Mac Rumors perhaps? Or maybe you’re into classical or jazz? If jazz, the Music Matters Blue Note’s are amazing. Mobile Fidelity also has some wonderful albums.


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I preferred the sound of vinyl for many years. My problem with it was that I kept destroying expensive cartridges by being a klutz. My last straw was destroying my Lyra Kleos, which I loved. I got rid of my analog system and all my records so I don't have to think about going back. I do miss it but after more than 60 years I have come to realize that I am not as careful as I once was. I can't do much damage to my digital system.

I have a turntable but I cannot for the life of me tell you why.

I did the records (vinyl) thing for nearly 50 years. Over the past nearly 40 years, digital has gotten so good that I can no longer see a reason to put up with the hassle of playing records.

Now from my easy chair, I can listen to a particular song and if that song inspires me follow it up with a song by a different artist, I can do that very easily; all without the ticks and pops that remind me that I'm listening to a recording. Not only that, but rather than being limited to the music in my own collection, I have choice of all the music that has ever been recorded, at my fingertips.

KeithR said:

unpopular opinion, but I feel digital is much better at the lower levels.

the analog investment for vinyl is high for playback as well as media. that said, analog re-masters on a good TT setup are the cat's meow and make it worth the effort. i have a half mastered Everything but the Girl album in transit that will never be on digital.

Click to expand...

Mike said:

Well, there is a great collective of expertise here on Audioshark. What I always start with is a budget. You will want:

- a turntable
- tonearm
- cartridge
- Phonostage
- (maybe) turntable cable (some TT’s come with cables)
- AudioQuest record cleaning brush (cheap and good!)
- record cleaning machine

It isn’t really an arduous task. Travel over to Acoustic Sounds and pick 10 of your favorite albums. That’s it. Start with 10. Pink Floyd DSOTM perhaps? Fleetwood Mac Rumors perhaps? Or maybe you’re into classical or jazz? If jazz, the Music Matters Blue Note’s are amazing. Mobile Fidelity also has some wonderful albums.

Click to expand...

thanks mike! the music matters blue note LPs are a not small part of the attraction -- not sure i could stop a 10.

its not the parts list, its the narrowing down and selecting from all the choices: BD/DD, MM/MC, SS/tube pre, 12"/9" tonearm, various manufactures and models, etc. like i say, without a good knowledge base to start from, iterating through components to get to a happy end goes against my frugal-ish nature. but as you say AS is a great resource and i suppose its just a matter of doing the research (which is after all part of the fun in this hobby).

aKnyght said:

thanks mike! the music matters blue note LPs are a not small part of the attraction -- not sure i could stop a 10.

its not the parts list, its the narrowing down and selecting from all the choices: BD/DD, MM/MC, SS/tube pre, 12"/9" tonearm, various manufactures and models, etc. like i say, without a good knowledge base to start from, iterating through components to get to a happy end goes against my frugal-ish nature. but as you say AS is a great resource and i suppose its just a matter of doing the research (which is after all part of the fun in this hobby).

Click to expand...

True. Don’t forget suspended Vs not suspended. A VPI HW40 with a Ortofon Cadenza Black makes a strong argument for killer table and cart for not a stupid price. I favor tube Phonostage myself - the Luxman EQ500 being at the top for again, crazy value. Zesto and Manley also make great options.


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I used to have a turntable, but not now. Why do I want 19th century technology in a 21st century stereo? Why do I want something that damages the music each time it is played? Why do I want a music source that might have one or two decent songs?

Never again.

this past Tuesday evening i had 10 music loving visitors (2 wives included). they were there from before 6pm to midnight. it was a fun session.

we listened to digital, vinyl and tape.

each format had it's advantages. we used my digital to access music from my files, Tidal and Qobuz, mostly we played vinyl, and did a couple of tapes, one 1/4" 15ips and one 1/2" 15ips.

but there was no doubt where the consistent magic was found, the place the emotional connection ran the highest, and that was vinyl. it could grab you and you would hear way into it. i played some very large scale music at warp 9 and it all held 100% together.

and my digital does not suck. to be fair, no one mentioned that something was missing with my digital, even streaming. and we accessed some pretty off the rails digital tracks. i can't say what they were thinking.

music was the big deal that night. and we all enjoyed it. IMHO the session would have been less memorable without vinyl.

Mike Lavigne said:

this past Tuesday evening i had 10 music loving visitors (2 wives included). they were there from before 6pm to midnight. it was a fun session.

we listened to digital, vinyl and tape.

each format had it's advantages. we used my digital to access music from my files, Tidal and Qobuz, mostly we played vinyl, and did a couple of tapes, one 1/4" 15ips and one 1/2" 15ips.

but there was no doubt where the consistent magic was found, the place the emotional connection ran the highest, and that was vinyl. it could grab you and you would hear way into it. i played some very large scale music at warp 9 and it all held 100% together.

and my digital does not suck. to be fair, no one mentioned that something was missing with my digital, even streaming. and we accessed some pretty off the rails digital tracks. i can't say what they were thinking.

music was the big deal that night. and we all enjoyed it. IMHO the session would have been less memorable without vinyl.

Click to expand...

While I’m going to add vinyl, all but one that has listened to my digital system has been blown away, the one that did not was impressed but kept saying it sounded digital - there was a new Odin power cable feeding distribution with 20 hours into breaking in.

I do agree the music referenced plays a big part.




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I'll be a bit contrarian here and say that I don't feel a need for a turntable even in the upper price range. A few years ago I was convinced, as a digital only guy, that top level vinyl was still markedly superior, but my perception has changed, with advances in digital and my system downstream of the digital source.

Now I am hard-pressed to think of anything that my friends' turntables, which I am very impressed with, do consistently better than my Redbook CD digital rig that costs almost 10 x less (it costs less than just those phono stages). I thought that maybe vinyl still had an advantage in the highs, but I have given up on also that idea since I have my new Octave preamp, which allows me to hear exquisitely pure highs from my digital rig, including from jazz cymbals and high-pitched metallic percussion on modern classical (and hey, the overtones of orchestral violins can sound fantastic too). In terms of resolution -- separation of instruments in complex music, as well as micro detail of timbre -- I don't hear any advantage of LP anymore either.

Yes, there are recordings that sound better on LP, because the mastering on CD is just not that good. I will always, for example, prefer the LP of Gidon Kremer's recording of Bach's violin sonatas and partitas on Philips over the CD on the same label. There is always something about certain jazz LPs that may be preferable to the CD as well, even though there are also many jazz CDs with stellar sound.

On especially classical, and much jazz, CD is overall great. LP may sometimes sound "nicer" than CD, but from my not inconsiderable experience with live classical music I cannot shake the impression that the sometimes "harder" sound of CD simply may be more realistic.

I might feel differently in my preferences if I would listen mainly to rock and pop because there CD mastering with the loudness wars, among others, may often be suboptimal, even though there are great sounding rock CDs as well. But let's face it, many 'original' LP pressings of rock albums are mediocre too, or even plain lousy.

As for emotional involvement, for me it's all there in spades with my digital, I personally miss nothing compared to LP.

Another thing is the clicks and pops. I have no problem with them in my friends' systems, but in my own system they would drive me crazy. They did when I was a teenager, and I became an obsessive compulsive cleaner of LPs. CD relieved me from that ordeal, and I never looked back, even though I was well aware of the shortcomings of early digital.