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  1. #101

    Re: Why no turntable?

    Donít mind the cost, enjoy the difficulty and love collecting vinyls - because itís not for everyone. Itís an exclusive club.


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  2. #102
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by bart View Post
    For my multi-channel recordings, I prefer digital...
    well; there are digitally sourced multi-channel, and analog sourced multi-channel.....which are different cases mostly. but I have to say that in my personal experience the best vinyl is preferable to multi-channel so far in my experience.

    14 years ago I built a custom room designed specifically to properly accommodate 5.1 SACD discrete multi-channel. it was wide enough to allow for 115 degree rear channels, had conduit for cables and outlets for the rear amps. and shortly after I moved into that room I did equip it with all the proper multi-channel gear including EMM Labs dac 6 and EMM Labs 8 channel analog Switchman preamp. I owned 400+ SACD multi-channel discs. and for 18 months I played these multi-channel recordings in this ideal room.

    but......honestly.......I played them, but not nearly as much as I expected to. because; my vinyl, which was very good, out 'multi-channeled' multi-channel in this room. and it was not close. maybe some of it was just analog recordings? maybe some of it was that my Rockport Sirius III turntable was so good? I don't really know. but whatever those multi-channel SACD's might do, the vinyl did it better. everything.

    so I sold off all the multi-channel stuff, and bought a couple of RTR 'analog' tape decks, which did 2 channel even better than the Rockport.

    fast forward 12 years to today, and I'm still all 2 channel....except....in my separate home theater in my house (my 2 channel is in my barn). in this Home Theater I have a 10 foot wide 2:35-1 screen with a 4k projector, but for sound I have 7.1.4 (currently with an Anthem AVM-60 processor). which is 7 surround channels and 4 ceiling 'Atmos' channels + 1 subwoofer channel (with 2 subs). and I'm thinking of getting a Trinnov Altitude 16 and doing 9.1.6.

    https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/sp...tup-guide.html

    I think that this newer 'object' approach to surround might actually give my 2 channel a run for it's money if I assign sufficient assets to optimizing it. right now it's not anywhere close, but my mind is open. yet I won't be surprised if it still cannot quite get the reality to what 'tip-top' analog 2 channel can provide.

    2 analog channels done absolutely right can rock my world.

    remember; all the channels in the world still can't deliver any more than the artist or recording engineer can provide. and my favorite music happens to be mostly already recorded as god intended it to be.......2 channel analog.

    just my 2 cents, YMMV, and all that stuff.

  3. #103
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    I have little to no interest in adding a vinyl setup to my system. Back in the day I had a fairly top notch record listening setup including the first VPI machine; their fantastic record cleaner. Dam that was LOUD . I loved the Grace Ruby cartridge, etc. Tons of D2D and UHQR albums.

    But it was all sold when I dropped out of audio. Raising son, career, etc.

    Now I still remember the hassle, the 20 minute sides, the pop and clicks, the cleaning, the fine tuning, etc., even under the best circumstances and love listening to my digital setup. Under best circumstances, in the league I play in, I think my digital rivals vinyl without the hassles. I guess for some digital is a hassle, for me not so much.

    A buddy in our audio club has maybe the best system I have heard. MBL amps, pre and speakers! ARC ref 10 phono stage. dCS digital (mainly for SACDs since he does not do server). At least a quarter million dollar setup. And it sounds amazing, but the first thing I hear is pops and clicks.... and no one is more fanatical about caring for his album collection. Three machines, climate controlled room, etc.

    Of course not having any albums is certainly a consideration also ....
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  4. #104
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    It's very rewarding once you find that perfect combo, though!
    mikeM... i would be interested to learn what gear is in your analog source: cart, arm, tt, phono stage, etc... given your knowledge and satisfaction with vinyl, might be a system to emulate !!
    kanjiroba yak + roon rock > t+a dac8 dsd > almarro a318b > viking acoustics berlin r mk2 | alp-tone audio analog cables

  5. #105

    Re: Why no turntable?

    I started in vinyl with a really solid rig (SOTA Star, Benz Glider), and back when I still didn't have too solid of a digital media collection (well before streaming). The vinyl collection quickly surpassed my CDs, and I've been upgrading gear and adding great vinyl ever since. Starting from scratch in vinyl now - with inflated analog gear & vinyl prices, good sounding budget DACs abound, and modern streaming alternatives - would more likely not lead to a good time. Though turntables, cartridges, and phono stages are (for the most part) better than ever, it takes serious cash and some setup knowledge to tap those benefits - contrast this to the ever improving digital audio quality at all price points. However, I'm super happy with how my vinyl collection & rig has grown, and it'll remain my primary source till I die. For me, the concept of settling in the sweet spot and losing myself into music is inexorably tied to cueing up a record - digital cannot do the same.

    Also at this point there's no way I'm investing the same level of funds (or even close to it) into a high-end digital/streaming setup; a Yggy 2 and hard drive full of FLACs is good enough for me there.

    I just turned 40, and I'm not one who grew up with vinyl. It was lucky that I started out some 12 years ago, rather than now. An older audiophile friend turned me on to 2ch and vinyl back when I was into the early head-fi days. I think he does a lot of streaming these days, haha!

  6. #106
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    LP playback can't compete with digital on noise floor (most cases) even a cheap CDP will be infinitely quieter than even the best LP playback. A reoccurring theme from naysayers on this thread are audible ticks and pops. again, If that's an annoyance then any turntable/vinyl set up is a non-starter. moving coil carts of the low output variety are usually included in a top rung LP rig which req. a high-gain phono stage. even the quietest 'stages I have direct experience with (CH Precision and Boulder) have residual hiss and other artifacts that add another layer of low level grunge that will be more or less audible, depending on the system and listener's sensitivity to it-- another annoyance.

    All that said, I can suspend my disbelief with digital well enough but its LPs/tape that give me goose bumps. in spite of itself, analog playback in its present iteration under the best circumstance will show a clean pair of heels to even the $100k MBS stack, its wasn't just me but everyone else present going back and forth with the big Kronos heard the same. In my present system, my analog sources go through the digital meat-grinder as it were, even then its virtues remain intact for the most part, even in direct comparison to playing back digital files the difference is not subtle.
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  7. #107
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by puroagave View Post
    LP playback can't compete with digital on noise floor (most cases) even a cheap CDP will be infinitely quieter than even the best LP playback. A reoccurring theme from naysayers on this thread are audible ticks and pops. again, If that's an annoyance then any turntable/vinyl set up is a non-starter. moving coil carts of the low output variety are usually included in a top rung LP rig which req. a high-gain phono stage. even the quietest 'stages I have direct experience with (CH Precision and Boulder) have residual hiss and other artifacts that add another layer of low level grunge that will be more or less audible, depending on the system and listener's sensitivity to it-- another annoyance.

    All that said, I can suspend my disbelief with digital well enough but its LPs/tape that give me goose bumps. in spite of itself, analog playback in its present iteration under the best circumstance will show a clean pair of heels to even the $100k MBS stack, its wasn't just me but everyone else present going back and forth with the big Kronos heard the same. In my present system, my analog sources go through the digital meat-grinder as it were, even then its virtues remain intact for the most part, even in direct comparison to playing back digital files the difference is not subtle.
    I think itís wonderful to have at least two world class sources. Reel to reel is also incredible, but it makes vinyl look easy. I really want to emphasize that my OP wasnít about whether one is better than another, but rather the fun of having both. I understand people wanting to focus on just one, but this is a hobby and variety is the spice of life. Even a modest vinyl rig added to a great digital setup or a modest digital setup added to a world class vinyl rig can be a lot of fun. I canít tell you how many Luminís Iíve sold to guys with killer vinyl rigs. They appreciate having both.

    I do find it interesting that folks obsessing over isolation, power and cable lifters feel the source of their source is ďgood enough.Ē You canít fix things downstream if the source isnít up to snuff. A bad AD conversion can ruin a great recording. A bad pressing can too.

    So stream the latest Paul McCartney album on Qobuz or Tidal, but sometimes sit back and put on Rubber Soul on vinyl and enjoy.

    Variety is the spice of life.


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  8. #108
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    Why no turntable?

    With this crowd, the reason for not getting into vinyl can't be "the cost", rather its the hassle-factor. More money is spent on speaker cables & power cables (by users posting in this thread that have pooh-poohed vinyl) for a given and existing set up then would need to be spent on a great turntable, cart and phono stage in order to realize great sound.

    In my opinion it really is about the inconvenience with all the facets of vinyl play back that keeps people away. Convenience rules. Not just in audio, but literally everything in society today must be convenient. Vinyl playback is not convienent, so it loses.
    .

  9. #109

    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeCh View Post
    With this crowd, the reason for not getting into vinyl can't be "the cost", rather its the hassle-factor. More money is spent on speaker cables & power cables (by users posting in this thread that have pooh-poohed vinyl) for a given and existing set up then would need to be spent on a great turntable, cart and phono stage in order to realize great sound.
    Cost *is* in fact a major reason (next to others) for me staying away from vinyl, as I pointed out in this thread. If I would have spent money on a good enough turntable -- or a good enough server for 'hi res' *) digital for that matter -- I would never have had from any source the stellar sound that I have now, after having put all the money into optimizing CD playback (with the latest acquisition, an Octave HP 700 preamp, being an absolutely crucial one).

    That one is willing to spend a lot of money on a high end system does not mean they have infinite resources. Money does not grow on trees.

    __________________________

    *) dumb name, as if CD was not high resolution...
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  10. #110
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    Ok Al, so you're in the minority. Thanks.
    .

  11. #111

    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeCh View Post
    Ok Al, so you're in the minority. Thanks.
    Which 'minority', Mike?
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  12. #112
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    Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Al M. View Post
    Which 'minority', Mike?
    Al, I am in the same minority. I am referring to those of us with limited funds.
    .

  13. #113

    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeCh View Post
    Don't worry Al, I am in the same minority. I am referring to those of us with limited funds.
    Aah, I guess with that we actually are in the majority. It's just that some choose to spend their limited funds on a single source, others on several sources. There are many paths to happiness, I chose mine, others chose theirs. I guess there is no right or wrong here.
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  14. #114

    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeCh View Post
    Al, I am in the same minority. I am referring to those of us with limited funds.
    Or ones who takes those funds and invest it in one great source component.

  15. #115
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    I went through a similar decision process (and being disabled, analog is a PITA than for others)- sell my Brinkmann rig for a cheap Technics and maybe upgrade my MSB Premier to a Reference dac. In the end, I kept the analog rig as for AAA recordings its still hard to beat and collecting vinyl is fun. The Bardo is industrial art, as well.

    Finally, some nights I love putting on an entire side of vinyl for a different listening experience. We tend to be more jumpy on digital with Roon/Tidal. I basically refuse to buy 45rpm stuff though.

    But if I had the current MSB crop six years ago, may not have made the analog decision in the first place.
    Brinkmann Bardo w/ 47 Labs MC Bee cart, MSB Premier DAC --> Music First Baby Reference v2 --> Ampzilla 2000, 2nd Edition --> YG Acoustics Hailey 2.2

  16. #116
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    Before I had a turntable my food would be cold in spots, hot in others. With a turntable, everything is evenly warm now.

    In all seriousness, I'm simply too lazy to deal with all the vinyl futzing. When music hour(s) arrive at 8p, I want to listen to as much music as possible, as easily as possible, with immersive SQ that trounces any luddite stereophonic vinyl setup extant. YMMV.

  17. #117
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Al M. View Post
    Aah, I guess with that we actually are in the majority. It's just that some choose to spend their limited funds on a single source, others on several sources. There are many paths to happiness, I chose mine, others chose theirs. I guess there is no right or wrong here.
    Al, you could get the Schitt turntable. Why no turntable?


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  18. #118
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Al, you could get the Schitt turntable. Why no turntable?
    If he want's to be hip cool
    Attached Images Attached Images

  19. #119

    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Al, you could get the Schitt turntable. Why no turntable?


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    Hehe, Mike, no chance against the Schiitty DAC .
    Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave

  20. #120

    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    If he want's to be hip cool
    Ha, if hip cool includes destroying your records upon playing, I'm all in...
    Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave

  21. #121
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I think it’s wonderful to have at least two world class sources. Reel to reel is also incredible, but it makes vinyl look easy. I really want to emphasize that my OP wasn’t about whether one is better than another, but rather the fun of having both. I understand people wanting to focus on just one, but this is a hobby and variety is the spice of life. Even a modest vinyl rig added to a great digital setup or a modest digital setup added to a world class vinyl rig can be a lot of fun. I can’t tell you how many Lumin’s I’ve sold to guys with killer vinyl rigs. They appreciate having both.

    I do find it interesting that folks obsessing over isolation, power and cable lifters feel the source of their source is “good enough.” You can’t fix things downstream if the source isn’t up to snuff. A bad AD conversion can ruin a great recording. A bad pressing can too.

    So stream the latest Paul McCartney album on Qobuz or Tidal, but sometimes sit back and put on Rubber Soul on vinyl and enjoy.

    Variety is the spice of life.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    My address was towards comments suggesting vinyl playback, in and of itself was inferior to digital because of artifacts such a self noise. HP said it best "the absence of noise is not the presence of music" (credit Myles Astor). the meaning will be lost on those that haven't enjoyed vinyl playback at a reasonably high level and in their own home.

    What I've observed over time, here and on other message boards, etc is a distinct correlation between those that enjoyed vinyl playback at a high level prior to the digital onslaught (mid '80s) and those that came into the high-end fold years later and quickly gravitated towards digital. The nexus between the size of ones physical media collection (LP) and their adherence to the vinyl format is undeniable. It's not to say digiphiles didn't have LPs back in the day, their commitment to the format was far less. It's rare indeed to find someone new to vinyl playback (less than 10 yrs) that uses it as their primary source or has a considerable investment in it.
    Simon Yorke | Channel D | Valvet | Wadia | Innuous | Avantgarde

    "One of the great challenges of this world: Knowing enough about a subject to think you are right, but not enough about the subject to know you're wrong" - Neil deGrasse Tyson

  22. #122
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by puroagave View Post
    My address was towards comments suggesting vinyl playback, in and of itself was inferior to digital because of artifacts such a self noise. HP said it best "the absence of noise is not the presence of music" (credit Myles Astor). the meaning will be lost on those that haven't enjoyed vinyl playback at a reasonably high level and in their own home.

    What I've observed over time, here and on other message boards, etc is a distinct correlation between those that enjoyed vinyl playback at a high level prior to the digital onslaught (mid '80s) and those that came into the high-end fold years later and quickly gravitated towards digital. It's not to say they didn't have LPs back in the day, their commitment to the format was minimal. The nexus between the size of ones physical media collection (LP) and their adherence to the vinyl format is undeniable. It's rare indeed to find someone new to vinyl playback (less than 10 yrs) that uses it as their primary source.
    Good point. My FIRST EVER audio product (in the 70ís) was a turntable. I had two paper routes and saved up all my money to buy my first table. Iíve always had a table since.
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  23. #123
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    Iím getting torn, as the iPads lazy and analog is effort. Right now itís late, wifeís in bed, friends have left for the evening and music is sounding real nice.




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  24. #124
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by puroagave View Post
    ...What I've observed over time, here and on other message boards, etc is a distinct correlation between those that enjoyed vinyl playback at a high level prior to the digital onslaught (mid '80s) and those that came into the high-end fold years later and quickly gravitated towards digital. The nexus between the size of ones physical media collection (LP) and their adherence to the vinyl format is undeniable. It's not to say digiphiles didn't have LPs back in the day, their commitment to the format was far less. It's rare indeed to find someone new to vinyl playback (less than 10 yrs) that uses it as their primary source or has a considerable investment in it.
    I'm sure we all exhibit some bias in our sampling of this data, but I have not found this to be true at all. Many of the most vocal analog proponents came late to the (audiophile) game, and many many who grew up with analog are now posting here and elsewhere that they are digital only.
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  25. #125
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by rbbert View Post
    they are digital only.
    I tried that once and all I heard were strange pops and static.
    I am and have always been an analog only guy.

    cheers,

    AJ

  26. #126

    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by puroagave View Post
    HP said it best "the absence of noise is not the presence of music" (credit Myles Astor).
    Touchť !

    I now have about a hundred LPs (only).
    In addition to the fact that sometimes I go to youtube to listen to the songs that I miss, I am thinking of buying a turntable because it is the most beautiful equipment of an audio system!



    See this Interesting reading



    https://www.stereophile.com/content/...iew-new-analog

  27. #127
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spock View Post
    Touchť !

    I now have about a hundred LPs (only).
    In addition to the fact that sometimes I go to youtube to listen to the songs that I miss, I am thinking of buying a turntable because it is the most beautiful equipment of an audio system!



    See this Interesting reading



    https://www.stereophile.com/content/...iew-new-analog
    Interesting article. I agree that Roon has given a calm and coordination to the vast amounts of music available digitally. Roon also has the unique feature to lead you from one artist you like to many others with a similar style. Quite frankly, Roon is a game changer in the world of digital.

    The exposure to new music and new artists seems almost endless with the combination of Roon and streaming services.

    That being said, if I find an album I love, Iím going to seek out the best version possible regardless of format and usually that means buying it. I guess Iím in the minority as I still like to own the albums I like. I have a belief that the artist should be compensated for a great album, beyond the piddly amounts they earn from streaming services.

    I will tell you, I found my first pressing of Frank Sinatraís Strangers In The Night LP. Itís pristine as it was my Dadís purchased in 1965. I played it yesterday and than compared it to the version on Qobuz. Just no comparison. The original pressing was dynamic and alive and three dimensional. The soundstage went on forever. The Qobuz version was good, surprisingly so, but sounded compressed and a little flat by comparison. But to be fair, like I said, Iíve found many modern recordings to be real stinkers on vinyl. These are typically record companies who produce an album on vinyl ďjust because itís the hip and cool thing to doĒ, rather than take the necessary care to produce a great record.
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  28. #128
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    I agree Mike other than I seek out the best digital version I can buy, which is never streaming. My way to compensate the artist is purchase my music and if at all possible direct from the artist (usually not possible, however I always purchase Lyn Stanley's latest straight from her as an example).

    There have been several times that I purchase the SACD, rip it to my server and then a higher rez digital download becomes available and I purchase that as well. Vanessa Fernandez's latest is the most recent example.
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  29. #129

    Re: Why no turntable?

    I guess with a thread title of "Why no turntable" it was bound to invite an anti-analog bitch fest. Since the thread is already up to 13 pages, I guess it's therapy for those who choose to crap on LPs. Personally, I'm no longer interested in trying to convince someone they should give records a try. It's better they keep searching for the best hi-rez version of Lyn Stanley and Vanessa Fernandez's latest sonic blockbusters.
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  30. #130

    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by puroagave View Post
    LP playback can't compete with digital on noise floor (most cases) even a cheap CDP will be infinitely quieter than even the best LP playback. A reoccurring theme from naysayers on this thread are audible ticks and pops. again, If that's an annoyance then any turntable/vinyl set up is a non-starter. moving coil carts of the low output variety are usually included in a top rung LP rig which req. a high-gain phono stage. even the quietest 'stages I have direct experience with (CH Precision and Boulder) have residual hiss and other artifacts that add another layer of low level grunge that will be more or less audible, depending on the system and listener's sensitivity to it-- another annoyance.

    All that said, I can suspend my disbelief with digital well enough but its LPs/tape that give me goose bumps. in spite of itself, analog playback in its present iteration under the best circumstance will show a clean pair of heels to even the $100k MBS stack, its wasn't just me but everyone else present going back and forth with the big Kronos heard the same. In my present system, my analog sources go through the digital meat-grinder as it were, even then its virtues remain intact for the most part, even in direct comparison to playing back digital files the difference is not subtle.
    This is the crux of the argument against vinyl and for many LP haters, it is the #1 deal breaker. And you are right that digital will always smoke LPs in the S/N ratio. But, digital has its own noises and digital flatulence that appears at times. Digital also isn't as stable as vinyl. If you are into streaming and you lose your internet connection, you are screwed until you get your connection back. Analog people can spool up a tape or put an LP on and have sonic bliss. I haven't been to an audio show yet where several digital only rooms were silent because they couldn't get their digital rigs to work. Digital isn't without its own headaches despite what some people say.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

  31. #131
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    Personally, I'm no longer interested in trying to convince someone they should give records a try.
    Right, because most 50-80yr old male audiophiles have never given records a try in their lifetimes. That must be it.

    Btw, fyi, I have literally thousands of CDs and files that can be played, instantaneously, without ritualism, if there were ever internet connectivity issues when playing music. I suspect many (most?) "Digital" guys do too.

  32. #132

    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    Right, because most 50-80yr old male audiophiles have never given records a try in their lifetimes. That must be it.

    Btw, fyi, I have literally thousands of CDs and files that can be played, instantaneously, without ritualism, if there were ever internet connectivity issues when playing music. I suspect many (most?) "Digital" guys do too.
    I'm sure that most 30-50 year old male audiophiles have never played a CD in their lifetimes just like your sure that most 50-80 year old audiophiles have never given records a try in their lifetimes even though that's all they had to listen to when they grew up.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

  33. #133
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    I'm no longer interested in trying to convince someone they should give records a try.

    most 50-80 year old audiophiles have never given records a try in their lifetimes even though that's all they had to listen to when they grew up.

  34. #134

    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    I didn't mention any age group when I said I don't try to convince someone they should give records a try. The age group you brought up wasn't who I was talking about obviously since they already have their own lifetime experiences. I'm glad you are having fun though AJ. You also strung together two different sentences of mine from different posts that takes what I said out of context so I'm glad people can read what I actually said.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

  35. #135
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    Well Mark,

    In the context of this thread on AS, I'm pretty sure everyone participating has given records "a try"...and that's precisely why they either do, or do not, choose to own a turntable. Not for a lack of trying.

    Oh and btw, vinyl/TT the most reliable of mediums?? Please.

  36. #136

    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    Digital also isn't as stable as vinyl. If you are into streaming and you lose your internet connection, you are screwed until you get your connection back. Analog people can spool up a tape or put an LP on and have sonic bliss. I haven't been to an audio show yet where several digital only rooms were silent because they couldn't get their digital rigs to work. Digital isn't without its own headaches despite what some people say.
    Digital is just as stable if you play physical CDs like I do. I always get my digital to work, never a problem with my current CD transport in the 5 years since I have it. Sometimes it pays off to be an "AARP dinosaur" (well, I'm still 56).
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  37. #137
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    I guess with a thread title of "Why no turntable" it was bound to invite an anti-analog bitch fest. Since the thread is already up to 13 pages, I guess it's therapy for those who choose to crap on LPs. Personally, I'm no longer interested in trying to convince someone they should give records a try. It's better they keep searching for the best hi-rez version of Lyn Stanley and Vanessa Fernandez's latest sonic blockbusters.
    I'm not seeing much "anti-analog bitching" here, more just explaining why many have decided to forgo analog to concentrate on single source playback. FWIW, only one of my audiophile friends from the 1970's is still committed to LP's, and for him it's business (Profundo Audio) as much as a hobby. But I do have quite a few friends and relatives in their 30's and 40's with turntables and LP's, only a few of whom would consider themselves audiophiles, and all of whom grew up in the "digital era."
    Rob
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  38. #138

    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by rbbert View Post
    I'm not seeing much "anti-analog bitching" here, more just explaining why many have decided to forgo analog to concentrate on single source playback. FWIW, only one of my audiophile friends from the 1970's is still committed to LP's, and for him it's business (Profundo Audio) as much as a hobby. But I do have quite a few friends and relatives in their 30's and 40's with turntables and LP's, only a few of whom would consider themselves audiophiles, and all of whom grew up in the "digital era."
    Rob-It’s a mixture of opinions, but for those that gave up analog, most opinions aren't positive.
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  39. #139

    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Al M. View Post
    Digital is just as stable if you play physical CDs like I do. I always get my digital to work, never a problem with my current CD transport in the 5 years since I have it. Sometimes it pays off to be an "AARP dinosaur" (well, I'm still 56).

    Yes, CDs are a physical medium. I was referring to digital files being played over a server/DAC combo.
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  40. #140

    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    Well Mark,

    In the context of this thread on AS, I'm pretty sure everyone participating has given records "a try"...and that's precisely why they either do, or do not, choose to own a turntable. Not for a lack of trying.

    Oh and btw, vinyl/TT the most reliable of mediums?? Please.

    AJ-I agree that the majority of people participating on this thread have experience with owning and playing LPs.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

  41. #141
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    I was referring to digital files being played over a server/DAC combo.
    That should be far more reliable than vinyl playback.
    Of course, audio shows tend to be Murphy's Law scenarios, but that wouldn't be limited to "digital"

  42. #142

    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    That should be far more reliable than vinyl playback.
    Of course, audio shows tend to be Murphy's Law scenarios, but that wouldn't be limited to "digital"
    So now we are down to defining what reliable means. When I cue up a record, unmute the phono preamp and line stage, I know I'm going to hear music. When you log into your iPad and bring up your streaming service, you don't know if you will have a connection or not back to the server so you can play files from your headless server. My server is hardwired to my audio network, but the iPad runs off of WiFi.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

  43. #143
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    When you log into your iPad and bring up your streaming service, you don't know if you will have a connection or not back to the server
    I don't do any such thing. It's possible to play files on the intranet or local drive(s) on laptop with high to very high (local drive) reliability, vs "stream" services like Tidal, Qobuz etc, which is internet.
    Anyone relying on internet streaming services for an audio show needs a clue.
    I've done more than a dozen shows with zero problems. To suggest zero moving parts is less reliable than archaic spinning motors dragging diamonds in plastic, is audiophile silly. Let's forget that angle for "why vinyl".

  44. #144
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    Analog wins ...

  45. #145
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    That should be far more reliable than vinyl playback.
    Of course, audio shows tend to be Murphy's Law scenarios, but that wouldn't be limited to "digital"

    Agree , Had my TT hacked and lost the Diamond Tip ..

  46. #146
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
    Agree , Had my TT hacked and lost the Diamond Tip ..
    Yep, same thing happened with a club member few months back, still not sure he's fixed it. Last I saw him, he was using his Lumin.
    But he sure as heck isn't giving up his really fancy tables or vast vinyl collection. Not a thing wrong with that.

  47. #147
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    In reference to Mike’s OP ..

    I do agree with Mike if the aim is to have the best sonic reproduction of your Favorite recordings , no one approach will get the job done ..

    1.TT for the best analog LP music playback
    2.CDP for the best reproduction of Redbook recordings
    3.Top server and DAC for the best hi def PCM/DSD recordings .
    4. R2R for the best original analog master copies playback ..



    Regards

  48. #148
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
    In reference to Mikeís OP ..

    I do agree with Mike if the aim is to have the best sonic reproduction of your Favorite recordings , no one approach will get the job done ..

    1.TT for the best analog LP music playback
    2.CDP for the best reproduction of Redbook recordings
    3.Top server and DAC for the best hi def PCM/DSD recordings .
    4. R2R for the best original analog master copies playback ..



    Regards
    Bingo. Since #2 will often have #3 built in, 1, 2/3 is really getting you 99% of the way there.
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  49. #149
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    I really do not believe it has become as bitch fest in any way shape or form. The thread asked "Why No turntable?" and people have been giving their reasons why no turntable for them while others have been given their opinions on why a turntable is important to them.
    Hattor The BIG - AMRG Trans | T+A AMP 8 | AudioQuest Niagara 1000 | Rega RP8 | Rega Ania Pro | MOON (by SimAudio) Neo 310LP | Record Doctor V & VI | T+A DAC 8 DSD | Falcon NW PC | Roon & HQPlayer | Wyred 4 Sound Recovery | KEF R700 | Elac Debut Sub 3010 | Abyss Diana Phi | Bryston ​BHA-1 | Astell&Kern AK240 | McIntosh MR7083 | Oppo BDP105

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  50. #150
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Al M. View Post
    well, I'm still 56
    aka audiophile spring chicken

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