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  1. #1
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    Diffuse vs Dampen/eliminated

    I recently changed some things in my listening room, removed two large wood cabinets that housed my gear and stored stuff and replaced them with a more traditional equipment rack; I got rid of a large DLP TV that was between my speakers, I did cover the screen when listening to 2-channel. I'm leaning toward a projector and the screen would be hidden when not in use.

    So now I have a bit of reflection, like the sound of a room without a lot of furnishing, it's not bad but I can hear it when standing and talking or clap. I am firmly convinced our room is a very important part of our system performance. So I'm beginning to look into what to do to improve my room acoustics.

    My room is heavy carpet over concrete, drywall, rectangle in shape with the system on one short wall. The rear of the room is not completely open but does have a larger than normal opening, no door. Odd measurements, about 14 x 22 or so.

    I have been in treated rooms with panels to eliminate reflections but to my ears I just didn't care for the overall sound of the room, I can't explain it, though the audio sounded great it just didn't seem natural to have the room so dead. At an audio show I heard MBL using diffusers and I really think that's the way I want to go. The system sounded great but the room allowed for harmonics. I think "harmonics" is proper. The music seemed to still be alive and natural opposed to being heard and going nowhere.

    So any experience or advice in treating my room would be appreciated, dampen but slightly? diffusing is the way to go? mix things up? etc.

    Also, any brands of treatments? I've looked at Auralex who offers products that does both stop or diffuse.
    Aurender ACS10 w/AQ Diamond,
    Mark Levinson #526 & 532h, JBL 4367's
    Clearaudio Performance DC w/Maestro cart
    All Clarus Crimson cabling, AC to binding post. Surgex
    HT: Marantz AV8003, Linn 5125, JBL SAM3ha, Revel s30,
    SVS PC13 Ultra
    Transparent, Analysis Plus & Tributaries. PS Audio filtering
    Sony XBR-75X940D & BDP

  2. #2
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    re: Diffuse vs Dampen/eliminated

    GIK Acoustics Alpha Series Diffusor / Absorber Panels

    http://www.gikacoustics.com/product-.../alpha-series/
    2 Channel Stereo :
    Win10 Transport + Fidelizer 8 + JRMC 26 & HQPlayer | Job INT | Western Electric 12GA | Green Mountain Audio Eos HX

  3. #3
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    re: Diffuse vs Dampen/eliminated

    Acoustic Geometry also makes some nice panels 2' x 2' and their "curves" are very useful for tuning. My 2 cents FWIW.
    My System:
    Lumin A-1
    Joule Electra LA150 Signature Plus
    Pass XA30.5
    Vapor Audio Cirrus Monitors
    18" Open Baffle Subs
    Cables: Teo Splash, Kubala Sosna, Cerious Tech, Fusion Audio.
    Two dedicated 20 Amp circuits. Shunyata Hydra. EP2050
    DIY bass traps and custom curved diffusors.

  4. #4
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    re: Diffuse vs Dampen/eliminated

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    I recently changed some things in my listening room, removed two large wood cabinets that housed my gear and stored stuff and replaced them with a more traditional equipment rack; I got rid of a large DLP TV that was between my speakers, I did cover the screen when listening to 2-channel. I'm leaning toward a projector and the screen would be hidden when not in use.

    So now I have a bit of reflection, like the sound of a room without a lot of furnishing, it's not bad but I can hear it when standing and talking or clap. I am firmly convinced our room is a very important part of our system performance. So I'm beginning to look into what to do to improve my room acoustics.

    My room is heavy carpet over concrete, drywall, rectangle in shape with the system on one short wall. The rear of the room is not completely open but does have a larger than normal opening, no door. Odd measurements, about 14 x 22 or so.

    I have been in treated rooms with panels to eliminate reflections but to my ears I just didn't care for the overall sound of the room, I can't explain it, though the audio sounded great it just didn't seem natural to have the room so dead. At an audio show I heard MBL using diffusers and I really think that's the way I want to go. The system sounded great but the room allowed for harmonics. I think "harmonics" is proper. The music seemed to still be alive and natural opposed to being heard and going nowhere.

    So any experience or advice in treating my room would be appreciated, dampen but slightly? diffusing is the way to go? mix things up? etc.

    Also, any brands of treatments? I've looked at Auralex who offers products that does both stop or diffuse.
    Take a look at Vicoustics. http://www.vicoustic.com/ That's what I use (and carry). Very happy with the results.

    http://www.vicoustic.com/product/cinema-round-premium
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Audio Research, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Avantgarde Acoustics, Avid HiFi, Ayre Acoustics, Berkeley Audio Design, Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Chord, EMM Labs, FirstWatt, Focal Headphones, Furutech, Fyne Audio Loudspeakers, GigaFoil, Gryphon Audio, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Naim Audio, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Shunyata Research, SimAudio, Stein Music Products, Stenheim Loudspeakers, Stillpoints, T+A Electronics, TechDAS/AirForce Turntables, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  5. #5
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    re: Diffuse vs Dampen/eliminated

    Mike, your not listed on their website yet as to "where to buy" in the U.S.
    Might want to get them to update their site.
    Looks like nice products
    My System:
    Lumin A-1
    Joule Electra LA150 Signature Plus
    Pass XA30.5
    Vapor Audio Cirrus Monitors
    18" Open Baffle Subs
    Cables: Teo Splash, Kubala Sosna, Cerious Tech, Fusion Audio.
    Two dedicated 20 Amp circuits. Shunyata Hydra. EP2050
    DIY bass traps and custom curved diffusors.

  6. #6
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    re: Diffuse vs Dampen/eliminated

    Quote Originally Posted by jadedavid View Post
    Mike, your not listed on their website yet as to "where to buy" in the U.S.
    Might want to get them to update their site.
    Looks like nice products
    Thanks. I will let them know. This is not uncommon (unfortunately).
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Audio Research, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Avantgarde Acoustics, Avid HiFi, Ayre Acoustics, Berkeley Audio Design, Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Chord, EMM Labs, FirstWatt, Focal Headphones, Furutech, Fyne Audio Loudspeakers, GigaFoil, Gryphon Audio, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Naim Audio, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Shunyata Research, SimAudio, Stein Music Products, Stenheim Loudspeakers, Stillpoints, T+A Electronics, TechDAS/AirForce Turntables, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  7. #7
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    re: Diffuse vs Dampen/eliminated

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    [...]
    I have been in treated rooms with panels to eliminate reflections but to my ears I just didn't care for the overall sound of the room, I can't explain it, though the audio sounded great it just didn't seem natural to have the room so dead. At an audio show I heard MBL using diffusers and I really think that's the way I want to go. The system sounded great but the room allowed for harmonics. I think "harmonics" is proper. The music seemed to still be alive and natural opposed to being heard and going nowhere.

    So any experience or advice in treating my room would be appreciated, dampen but slightly? diffusing is the way to go? mix things up? etc.

    Also, any brands of treatments? I've looked at Auralex who offers products that does both stop or diffuse.

    Yes, I know what you mean, over damped rooms don't sound natural. For this reason I am a strong advocate for the use of diffusion, particularly at early reflection points. The Auralex stuff is dubious and I'd recommend you look at more credible suppliers.
    Borresen Acoustics Loudspeakers, Borresen Model 01 Compact monitor loudspeakers with Ansuz Darkz T2s Supreme resonance control, Audio Video Manufaktur GmbH (AVM) Inspiration amplifier & streamer, Innuos Zen MKII music server, Ansuz Acoustics cables & accessories. Please visit my system thread hosted on Audioshark for more details. Disclosure: The author is materially connected to Ansuz, Aavik & Borresen Acoustics via friendship with an owner.

  8. #8
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    re: Diffuse vs Dampen/eliminated

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi_1282001 View Post
    Yes, I know what you mean, over damped rooms don't sound natural. For this reason I am a strong advocate for the use of diffusion, particularly at early reflection points. The Auralex stuff is dubious and I'd recommend you look at more credible suppliers.
    Kiwi,

    We have somewhat different viewpoints on this subject.

    Hope you don't mind if I interject a comment & question...

    Everyone knows that the frequency response of ANY speaker - when measured well off-axis (such as the angle one might encounter at an early reflection point) - is going to be unpleasant. In fact, it is very colored, in a negative manner.

    So why would you want to disperse or diffuse a badly colored sound anywhere into your room?

    Best,

    Jim
    Small Green Computer; gigaFoil 4 Ethernet filter w/ Keces PS-3; Sonore ultraRendu; MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; AQ Diamond USBs; PS Audio LanRover; ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; Audioquest Diamond ethernet; Audioquest Diamond AES - 3M; Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated; Ayre Codex - updated; Topping D-90; Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amplifier; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamplifier, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s; Wyred 4 Sound STP-750E Mk II amplifier w/Kimber TCX wiring & WBT binding posts; Quicksilver Mid Mono amplifiers w/Gold Lion KT77s, Joseph Audio Perspective 2 Graphenes; Symposium Speaker Platforms; REL S-812 subwoofers; Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA & 20GA ICs; Shunyata 6000S/V2; Tripp Lite PCs; Wyred 4 Sound power cords; AudioDharma cable cooker; dedicated custom room; various GIK & ASC room treatments; etc.

    www.getbettersound.com

  9. #9
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    re: Diffuse vs Dampen/eliminated

    Treating your room can make a big difference to the sound , both positive and negative, knowledge of which direction to go and what type of treatment is necessary can save you alot in time and money, unless of course, the experimentation and journey is part of the plan ...


    Many a room have been improved by yanking out unnecessary treatments ....


    Regards...

  10. #10
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    re: Diffuse vs Dampen/eliminated

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Smith View Post
    Kiwi,

    We have somewhat different viewpoints on this subject.

    Hope you don't mind if I interject a comment & question...

    Everyone knows that the frequency response of ANY speaker - when measured well off-axis (such as the angle one might encounter at an early reflection point) - is going to be unpleasant. In fact, it is very colored, in a negative manner.

    So why would you want to disperse or diffuse a badly colored sound anywhere into your room?

    Best,

    Jim
    Hello Jim,


    Because reflected waves return at different phase angles and add to the ambient quality of the sound , distance from the wall and time of arrival is best controlled by diffusing than absorbing. Absorption can lead to that dreaded "dead " sound that some mentioned, this is not to say absorption is not necessary, there are many situations where absorption is beneficial , especially with bright speakers, speakers which over power the room and poor RT60 times ...


    Regards ...

  11. #11
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    re: Diffuse vs Dampen/eliminated

    Quote Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
    Hello Jim,


    Because reflected waves return at different phase angles and add to the ambient quality of the sound , distance from the wall and time of arrival is best controlled by diffusing than absorbing. Absorption can lead to that dreaded "dead " sound that some mentioned, this is not to say absorption is not necessary, there are many situations where absorption is beneficial , especially with bright speakers, speakers which over power the room and poor RT60 times ...


    Regards ...
    Thanks!

    I guess we have to agree to disagree.

    FWIW - My viewpoint comes from practical experience, having successfully voiced many hundreds of systems.

    Of course, I do think that there is art & science to be applied that are often unknown - or worse - ignored re absorption...
    Small Green Computer; gigaFoil 4 Ethernet filter w/ Keces PS-3; Sonore ultraRendu; MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; AQ Diamond USBs; PS Audio LanRover; ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; Audioquest Diamond ethernet; Audioquest Diamond AES - 3M; Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated; Ayre Codex - updated; Topping D-90; Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amplifier; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamplifier, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s; Wyred 4 Sound STP-750E Mk II amplifier w/Kimber TCX wiring & WBT binding posts; Quicksilver Mid Mono amplifiers w/Gold Lion KT77s, Joseph Audio Perspective 2 Graphenes; Symposium Speaker Platforms; REL S-812 subwoofers; Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA & 20GA ICs; Shunyata 6000S/V2; Tripp Lite PCs; Wyred 4 Sound power cords; AudioDharma cable cooker; dedicated custom room; various GIK & ASC room treatments; etc.

    www.getbettersound.com

  12. #12
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    re: Diffuse vs Dampen/eliminated

    I just wanted to say thanks to all who replied. Too lazy to click everyone, LOL
    Aurender ACS10 w/AQ Diamond,
    Mark Levinson #526 & 532h, JBL 4367's
    Clearaudio Performance DC w/Maestro cart
    All Clarus Crimson cabling, AC to binding post. Surgex
    HT: Marantz AV8003, Linn 5125, JBL SAM3ha, Revel s30,
    SVS PC13 Ultra
    Transparent, Analysis Plus & Tributaries. PS Audio filtering
    Sony XBR-75X940D & BDP

  13. #13
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    re: Diffuse vs Dampen/eliminated

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Smith View Post
    Kiwi,

    We have somewhat different viewpoints on this subject.

    Hope you don't mind if I interject a comment & question...

    Everyone knows that the frequency response of ANY speaker - when measured well off-axis (such as the angle one might encounter at an early reflection point) - is going to be unpleasant. In fact, it is very colored, in a negative manner.

    So why would you want to disperse or diffuse a badly colored sound anywhere into your room?

    Best,

    Jim

    Hello Jim,

    a.wayne has stepped in to reply before I could and he is on the money – it is about the ambient quality (i.e. spreading the sound energy without removing ambience) and naturalness of sound and this is backed up by published research, some loudspeaker manufacturer recommendations and years of my own experience; though I happily acknowledge differing opinions exist and your interjection is welcome.

    Our ears are completely remarkable, together with the brain they are used to process both direct and indirect (reflected) sounds on a daily basis and this processing has become second nature to us to the extent that if you completely remove reflected sound the result immediately seems unnatural.


    Best,

    Ralph
    Borresen Acoustics Loudspeakers, Borresen Model 01 Compact monitor loudspeakers with Ansuz Darkz T2s Supreme resonance control, Audio Video Manufaktur GmbH (AVM) Inspiration amplifier & streamer, Innuos Zen MKII music server, Ansuz Acoustics cables & accessories. Please visit my system thread hosted on Audioshark for more details. Disclosure: The author is materially connected to Ansuz, Aavik & Borresen Acoustics via friendship with an owner.

  14. #14
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    re: Diffuse vs Dampen/eliminated

    I thought I'd come back and share where I was at.

    A sampling of Auralex was in a local music store, upon inspection I ruled it out.

    I did visit vicoustics, I can't remember why nothing happened, maybe I couldn't find my way.

    I spoke to a gik rep, the product he recommended would have taken to much area in my room. One of those guys who had you squirming in your chair because you realize how much you have wrong in the room you can't, or, don't want to change, LOL

    I was leaning hard toward Acoustic Geometry's Curved Diffusers and maybe something for the corners. I liked the theory behind the diffusers, which are really a combo of bass trap & diffuser. A big concern was no dealer in my entire state and a 50% restock fee. I certainly planned to keep them if they work, but, what if

    A friend brought over a few of the DIY Corning 703 panels that are already made up. They are about 2x4 ft. and around 4 inch thick. He sat one on each wall around the 1st reflection and two on the wall behind the speakers and facing me. Those two worked there better than in the corners. Absorption is not the way I thought I wanted to go but with just those 4 to play with the result was amazing. At first the room absent of reflection seemed to feel a bit closed in. After hearing what I'd call dramatic improvement in familiar music I think I can live with it.

    You all know already, but I wish I had played with actual room treatments much earlier, better vocal intelligibility, improved bass, incredible revelation of fine details, nice. The downside, low WAF. But, she designated my listening area to the lower level for some reason, LOL

    I wonder what people did for treatments before the internet, you sure can't walk in off the street to get any, or help. My friend has these extra and willing to part with them, so being able to try them first, and, the great results, it looks like the way I will be going.
    Aurender ACS10 w/AQ Diamond,
    Mark Levinson #526 & 532h, JBL 4367's
    Clearaudio Performance DC w/Maestro cart
    All Clarus Crimson cabling, AC to binding post. Surgex
    HT: Marantz AV8003, Linn 5125, JBL SAM3ha, Revel s30,
    SVS PC13 Ultra
    Transparent, Analysis Plus & Tributaries. PS Audio filtering
    Sony XBR-75X940D & BDP

  15. #15
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    re: Diffuse vs Dampen/eliminated

    Take a look at ATS Acoustics. They are located just south of Chicago in Piper City.
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Nuprime CDT-8, Auralic Aries G1, Aqua La Voce S3, Supratek Chardonnay, Van Alstine Vision SET-400, Reynaud Abscisse Jubilee, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC's ,SC & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's & USB , PS Audio Stellar P3, Timbernation rack

    Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Teac NT505, Kinki Studio EX-M1+, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Wireworld SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810

    Greenville- Marantz HD-CD1, Auralic Aries, PSA Directstream Sr., Audia Flight FL Three S, Fritz Carrera Be or Harbeth C7-ES3, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, PI Audio Uberbuss, AudioSensibility cables

  16. #16
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    re: Diffuse vs Dampen/eliminated

    That's great that you get to hear the results of the product before buying. Taming the first reflection point is quite often very rewarding. I tried absorption panels there and like you found a more relaxed "quieter" sound. Initially I enjoyed the change but as time went on I felt the music lacked drive or "boogie factor". A friend turned me on to the Acoustic Geometry "curves". Placing them at the first reflection point brought back that "toe tapping" feeling to the music. Furthermore, based upon their half circle construction, slight placement changes result in changing width and depth of the soundstage. Perhaps as an experiment you could take some large pieces of cardboard and slightly roll them into a half circle shape approximating the AG Curves. This would give you an idea of the results of the radial diffusion from the curves.
    Good luck and have fun with it.
    My System:
    Lumin A-1
    Joule Electra LA150 Signature Plus
    Pass XA30.5
    Vapor Audio Cirrus Monitors
    18" Open Baffle Subs
    Cables: Teo Splash, Kubala Sosna, Cerious Tech, Fusion Audio.
    Two dedicated 20 Amp circuits. Shunyata Hydra. EP2050
    DIY bass traps and custom curved diffusors.

  17. #17
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    re: Diffuse vs Dampen/eliminated

    It would be great to have been able to try the curve diffusers. From what I've read about them I doubt I could imitate one. There's an internal membrane that traps bass, then at a certain point from there up is diffused. In my opinion their ridiculous restocking policy is probably a stumbling block to more business. But maybe the company had a bad experience that caused it.

    I've also read, "you can't have too much bass trapping", however, I think I have to be careful with the absorption regarding mids/highs. With absorption it seems the 703 Corning is like the benchmark.

    I hope I don't get restless with the effect. The sound is some more relaxed but actually eliminating the reflections allowing me to hear more into the recording gives a better sense of melody.

    I will still remember Acoustic geometry and folks like that have chimed in here have been converted to diffusion for a reason. Plus, some of the companies at shows use the diffusers to help in their room. For now, it's a matter of circumstance.

    Quote Originally Posted by jadedavid View Post
    That's great that you get to hear the results of the product before buying. Taming the first reflection point is quite often very rewarding. I tried absorption panels there and like you found a more relaxed "quieter" sound. Initially I enjoyed the change but as time went on I felt the music lacked drive or "boogie factor". A friend turned me on to the Acoustic Geometry "curves". Placing them at the first reflection point brought back that "toe tapping" feeling to the music. Furthermore, based upon their half circle construction, slight placement changes result in changing width and depth of the soundstage. Perhaps as an experiment you could take some large pieces of cardboard and slightly roll them into a half circle shape approximating the AG Curves. This would give you an idea of the results of the radial diffusion from the curves.
    Good luck and have fun with it.
    Aurender ACS10 w/AQ Diamond,
    Mark Levinson #526 & 532h, JBL 4367's
    Clearaudio Performance DC w/Maestro cart
    All Clarus Crimson cabling, AC to binding post. Surgex
    HT: Marantz AV8003, Linn 5125, JBL SAM3ha, Revel s30,
    SVS PC13 Ultra
    Transparent, Analysis Plus & Tributaries. PS Audio filtering
    Sony XBR-75X940D & BDP

  18. #18
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    re: Diffuse vs Dampen/eliminated

    When using the curves at the first reflection point the Bass membrane is of little to no effect as it is the 180 degree reflection pattern that will affect the sound most thus the quick DIY experiment with the cardboard. When using the Curves in the corners or by the room boundaries is where the bass traps will have a greater positive effect.FWIW.
    My System:
    Lumin A-1
    Joule Electra LA150 Signature Plus
    Pass XA30.5
    Vapor Audio Cirrus Monitors
    18" Open Baffle Subs
    Cables: Teo Splash, Kubala Sosna, Cerious Tech, Fusion Audio.
    Two dedicated 20 Amp circuits. Shunyata Hydra. EP2050
    DIY bass traps and custom curved diffusors.

  19. #19
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    re: Diffuse vs Dampen/eliminated

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    I thought I'd come back and share where I was at.

    A sampling of Auralex was in a local music store, upon inspection I ruled it out.

    I did visit vicoustics, I can't remember why nothing happened, maybe I couldn't find my way.

    I spoke to a gik rep, the product he recommended would have taken to much area in my room. One of those guys who had you squirming in your chair because you realize how much you have wrong in the room you can't, or, don't want to change, LOL

    I was leaning hard toward Acoustic Geometry's Curved Diffusers and maybe something for the corners. I liked the theory behind the diffusers, which are really a combo of bass trap & diffuser. A big concern was no dealer in my entire state and a 50% restock fee. I certainly planned to keep them if they work, but, what if

    A friend brought over a few of the DIY Corning 703 panels that are already made up. They are about 2x4 ft. and around 4 inch thick. He sat one on each wall around the 1st reflection and two on the wall behind the speakers and facing me. Those two worked there better than in the corners. Absorption is not the way I thought I wanted to go but with just those 4 to play with the result was amazing. At first the room absent of reflection seemed to feel a bit closed in. After hearing what I'd call dramatic improvement in familiar music I think I can live with it.

    You all know already, but I wish I had played with actual room treatments much earlier, better vocal intelligibility, improved bass, incredible revelation of fine details, nice. The downside, low WAF. But, she designated my listening area to the lower level for some reason, LOL

    I wonder what people did for treatments before the internet, you sure can't walk in off the street to get any, or help. My friend has these extra and willing to part with them, so being able to try them first, and, the great results, it looks like the way I will be going.
    Its great to read you are experimenting and drawing your own conclusions.

    I also found absorption at first sidewall reflection points to improve sound quality vs. Bare wall reflections. However, once i tried well engineered diffusors in the same position there was absolutely no going back.
    Borresen Acoustics Loudspeakers, Borresen Model 01 Compact monitor loudspeakers with Ansuz Darkz T2s Supreme resonance control, Audio Video Manufaktur GmbH (AVM) Inspiration amplifier & streamer, Innuos Zen MKII music server, Ansuz Acoustics cables & accessories. Please visit my system thread hosted on Audioshark for more details. Disclosure: The author is materially connected to Ansuz, Aavik & Borresen Acoustics via friendship with an owner.

  20. #20
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    re: Diffuse vs Dampen/eliminated

    Deleted. Double post.
    Borresen Acoustics Loudspeakers, Borresen Model 01 Compact monitor loudspeakers with Ansuz Darkz T2s Supreme resonance control, Audio Video Manufaktur GmbH (AVM) Inspiration amplifier & streamer, Innuos Zen MKII music server, Ansuz Acoustics cables & accessories. Please visit my system thread hosted on Audioshark for more details. Disclosure: The author is materially connected to Ansuz, Aavik & Borresen Acoustics via friendship with an owner.

  21. #21

    re: Diffuse vs Dampen/eliminated

    Balanced between diffusion and dumping is very important, but we must not forget to room dimension as well. Square is not good, better is rectangle, wall distanc shell not be in multiplications.

  22. #22
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    re: Diffuse vs Dampen/eliminated

    Which direction is best for the long axis of a rectangular room?
    hikerneil

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  23. #23
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    re: Diffuse vs Dampen/eliminated

    What are the dimensions of the room? That could go either way depending.
    Synology 1019D+ - SGC Sonictransporter I9 w Roon/HQ Player- UltraRendu- PBD Stream IF to Playback Designs MPS5 via fiber optic - ARC 40th Anniversary Pre - ARC 610 T's - Martin Logan CLX's - 4 Martin Logan Depth i Subs - Shunyata Hydra, IC's and PC's. Audio Quest Vodka CAT 7's. Acoustically treated room with one permanent chair.

  24. #24
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    re: Diffuse vs Dampen/eliminated

    Quote Originally Posted by hikerneil View Post
    Which direction is best for the long axis of a rectangular room?
    Martin Logan Montis Speakers
    https://www.linkwitzlab.com/rooms.htm


    Well, you can try placing on the long wall, but the short wall will allow you to sit further back, and that's what you want with M/L's (Dipoles), check your owner's manual if in doubt.

    I mean my M/L Aerius speakers are 3-feet from the front wall per the owner's manual, that alone is going to shrink one dimension of the room.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  25. #25
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    re: Diffuse vs Dampen/eliminated

    I was unable to find the exact diagram that illustrates seating position "sweetspot" comparative of conventional dynamic loudspeakers and dipole panel speakers.

    However as you all know the panel speakers in general are regarded to have a smaller sweet spot and are more narrowly directive. That is to say the sound projects out in straight planes and does not expand out in a wide rating pattern (polar dispersion) as a "point source".

  26. #26
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    Re: Diffuse vs Dampen/eliminated

    I am getting notices that this thread is being active, but cannot read the new posts.

    I have done a lot of acoustic experiments, listening and research in the past couple of months since my last post.

    I have changed my mind on a few things to say the least, always learning to be kind to myself.

    Link to DIY projects and room:

    kach22i's system | What's Best Audio and Video Forum. The Best High End Audio Forum on the planet!

    And regarding my Martin Logan dispersion comment, sort of figured out the nuances of that topic too.

    The big lie - Dispersion Horizontal: 30 Degrees | What's Best Audio and Video Forum. The Best High End Audio Forum on the planet!

  27. #27
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    Re: Diffuse vs Dampen/eliminated

    I am getting notices that this thread is being active, but cannot read the new posts.

    I have done a lot of acoustic experiments, listening and research in the past couple of months since my last post.

    I have changed my mind on a few things to say the least, always learning to be kind to myself.

    Link to DIY projects and room:

    kach22i's system | What's Best Audio and Video Forum. The Best High End Audio Forum on the planet!

    And regarding my Martin Logan dispersion comment, sort of figured out the nuances of that topic too.

    The big lie - Dispersion Horizontal: 30 Degrees | What's Best Audio and Video Forum. The Best High End Audio Forum on the planet!

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Diffuse vs Dampen/eliminated

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