Thread: ASC or GIK - Opnions Please

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Barry

I went with GIK panels. Great customer service, very detailed in answers and great tips on installment, saving a few bucks, etc. Panels are very good quality. I don't know about their bass traps as I don't have them as they would be a waste of money in my situation. However, I could probably make a safe bet that they are good quality. I also like the extra support of GIK they have on the website and they even go so far as to teach you to do your own REW room evaluation if you want and they will even help you with deciphering the data you get if you ask. Very friendly group of folks.
I don't have any experience with ATS, so I can't speak to that.

Measure your room before you buy. Don't rely on any acoustic treatment company to give you acoustics advice. You'll get what you pay for.

I do like the RPG BAD panel imitations that GIK sells. I've had a lot of experience using fiberglass panels. If possible, fiberglass panels should never just have the cloth covering. Bare fiberglass absorbs HF too much which can make the room have a "dead" sound.

RPG is the king of the hill but very expensive and offers no customer service. I mostly use RPG. Primacoustic makes excellent corner traps with membrane. If you want to use fiberglass, I would recommend covering the front of the panel with something like an Auralex t'fusor. I do this a lot in my room and it's great!

If your bass problems are partly due to length mode ringing (most likely), there's no better bass trap available than the RPG Modex Plate. You won't ever take them down.

Originally Posted by dallasjustice

Measure your room before you buy. Don't rely on any acoustic treatment company to give you acoustics advice. You'll get what you pay for.

I echo this. I was assuming that was done. Yes, do testing first before getting treatments!!! Do NOT take ANY acoustical treatment company at their word!!! I've tested this myself. I had one company flat out tell me that I needed a 12 piece kit at a cost of well into the four digits for a room that would not accommodate more than 4 pieces! I have GIK panels and I find them to be just as good as the others only with good customer service to boot. In treatment world you do not "get what you pay for", you get what you order, period. That's why testing is so important. By testing I mean not only measuring the room (if you can), but also finding things around the house to put in places of question to see if there is significant enough effect.

Though I use GIK and have successfully for years, the biggest tip I can give any of you on this subject is to apply this stuff sparingly in a way that it can be easily moved or removed. They don't call it "room tuning" for a reason. I had another company come in at the beginning of the year, take measurements and install treatments based on a computer model. Completely DESTROYED my listening environment and it took every bit of spare time I had this year to make it right again. Went back to my basic GIK setup and couldn't be happier.

While I always hate to make "rules" about this stuff, whatever you think you need for your room, get a third of that. Apply it gingerly in the corners and the first reflection points and go delicately from there.

Originally Posted by Ritmo

Thank you guys. I always do research before making a purchasing decision.

I am looking for a well made and effective solution. And, I do not intent to fill the room with bass traps and panels. While my music room is in a separate part of the house, I want it to look as much as possible as a regular room. However, I do realize that a few traps as well as panels will be needed - but they have to be well made and look good - and, ultimately, work well.

Mike

Well, of course. You never want to fill any room with traps and panels or you'll throw things off in another direction, not to mention waste money. The secret is getting only what you need, which you already know.

Originally Posted by babybear

Hi Mike,

I think the folks here have given you some very good advice. I'll chime in as well.

The GIK products are effective and very cost effective. I have 4 of their corner bass traps called Tri Traps. I would tell you that they work as advertised, but as others have mentioned, they lack the absolute best fit and finish compared to products from ASC or RPG.

I also have products from RPG - I use a variety of their BAD panels which I find very effective as well with generally high quality fit and finish. I also use their Skyline diffusors on my ceiling, painted by RPG with the same paint used on my ceiling so they blend in better. The downside of RPG is that they are on the expensive side of acoustic treatments and they take a while to deliver your order once it is placed compared to the some of the other acoustic treatment companies.

I also use bass traps from Real Traps - specifically their corner Mondo traps. Again, a very effective product with good fit and finish. Another company that hasn't been mentioned yet is called Kinetics Noise Control. They make a variety of acoustic products for all types of solutions including for home audio/theater usage. They make a specific product called a TAD panel. It is basically identical to the RPG BAD panel both in terms of looks, function and fit and finish and about the same price. I use some of these as well. The advantage of Kinetics compared to RPG is that they deliver your order once it is placed much, much faster than RPG: 2-3 weeks versus 2-3 months from RPG. I have ordered twice from each of these companies and the delivery times were consistent.

I have been in several rooms of friends who use ASC products. Again, they are effective once you have dialed them in properly. But, you need to realize they generally sit on your floor and extend out from the wall quite a bit depending on which size you get so they tend to eat up your floor space versus wall or corner mounted panels.

Bottom line, there are a good number of companies to choose from - which one to use for me was a decision based on which one had the product that fit the problem that I was trying to solve - both from an acoustics point of view as well as the look of the treatment itself. Take the advice as already given - start slow - bass traps in your corners and treat your first points of reflection and learn from that. You may need to add additional treatments beyond that depending on your room and system, but add them sparingly as you do not what to over dampen your room.

Nice post, very informative! It appears this matches what I think in that there are many good room treatment product companies out there including GIK. I'm a little confused though about the whole thing with "fit & finish". Is it not function that is most important? Unless it's absolutely horrid or something, who cares what it looks like if it's at least close to what would go with the room being treated? I have two GIK panels on the wall behind the sofa and they are fine. They almost blend in with the wall, both are the same with no noticeable anomalies. Either I got lucky or the stuff about GIK product being faulty is myth.

MSR makes an extremely effective corner bass trap called a SpringTrap. Very unique design. They greatly increased listening enjoyment in my room by tightening up the bass. On those overcooked tracks when the bass just became a muddy mess in my room now I can listen and enjoy. The tracks still have overcooked bass, but my room doesn't f it up further. I also have ASC tube traps in the front corners.

Hey Mike, ASC also makes a product called a "cool trap" which is a 1' square with a curved plastic face backed by foam. They make a great diffuser and the small size makes them easy to place and tweak. In my room, I arranged them under a window opposite a spot where the other side of the room widened by 4', and I also placed them at reflection points. The ones arranged in a grid completely killed the slap echo in that part of the room - from a long 1-2 second delay to none. And in the grid pattern they don't suck up the sound and kill the livelyness. (you can see the MSR SpringTraps in the corner - I used two pairs and stacked them 'cause its a reasonable sized room) (and forgive that crappy torchier lamp, its days are numbered!)

MSR spring traps are great too. I have 2 pairs on the corners on the front of room. I also like them because they are pressure traps but still wide range of absorption. The only downside is that the front is wood so they cannot be placed too close to seated position or they will reflect sound which could cause an SBIR.
Mike,
Buy quality. Don't buy too much at one time. Measure with a mic as you go. Listen.

You have 4 options at your disposal. All of the above is best: Speaker position, seated position, treatments and DSP.

Originally Posted by Bobvin

Hey Mike, ASC also makes a product called a "cool trap" which is a 1' square with a curved plastic face backed by foam. They make a great diffuser and the small size makes them easy to place and tweak. In my room, I arranged them under a window opposite a spot where the other side of the room widened by 4', and I also placed them at reflection points. The ones arranged in a grid completely killed the slap echo in that part of the room - from a long 1-2 second delay to none. And in the grid pattern they don't suck up the sound and kill the livelyness. (you can see the MSR SpringTraps in the corner - I used two pairs and stacked them 'cause its a reasonable sized room) (and forgive that crappy torchier lamp, its days are numbered!)

I've had good experience, advice/support from the following suppliers: GIK Acoustics, Vicoustic (Acoustic Frontiers) and most recently SRL Acoustics. I've found that all these suppliers have their strong points in terms of quality and price/performance benefits. Give Brian Pape @ GIK, Niall @ Acoustic Frontiers and Allen @ SRL a call and decide what will work best in your room. YMMV.....

Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras

Wow what a great thread. As the owner of GIK it is good to hear feedback.
As far as fit and finish this has been something we have been working on for the last few years. Just as of late last year we did a total redesign of the panels (now a patent pending) and also redesigned the Tri Trap to have much smoother corners.

Needless to say I am new to this board and hope to be able to help with any kind of acoustic questions you might all have.

Welcome Glenn. You and I have spoken before (about a year ago), when I was trying to treat my (found out later) un-treatable room. I got a couple of your panels and have no complaints. I'm sure they work, just not dramatically in my room which is the fault of the room. I think you offer good value in both product and service. Your engineer is great, he offered many lower-cost suggestions instead of just recommending a multi thousand dollar treatment set up just to take the lazy way out and stayed in focus in suggestions and advice. My room can only handle a couple of panels behind the sofa (which I did purchase from you). A quantity of two base traps were also suggested, but the room is round without being round, so there is really no place to put them and they would have no effect anyway. It's just an unfortunate place I live in. It's a waste of money trying to treat the room I have, so I just have to live with it for now and rely on the adaptive abilities of my speakers and any room correction software on-board the receiver. (I'm upgrading that by the way soon so I'll go from Audessy MultiEQ XT to MultiEQ XT32+pro ability or equivalent).
Hopefully my next place (whenever that may be) will be more accommodating. (Wall to wall carpet would be a good start).