Acoustic Room Treatments vs DSP
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  1. #1
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    Acoustic Room Treatments vs DSP

    Let's face it, once you get beyond proper speaker placement, most rooms are still a problem. Most rooms require some TLC to get just right....not too hot, not too cold....wait, no, that's something else. Not too dead/not too lively.

    As DSP continues to advance in terms of technology both outside the speaker and inside the speaker, are we reaching a point where behemoth treatments will go the way of the Dodo Bird?

    Case in point: I had the opportunity to hear the Avantgarde Zero XD's. The left speaker was jammed into a corner and the right speaker was out into the middle of the room. I thought for sure this would not sound good. Boy, was I wrong. It sounded incredible. I listened for over two hours to be sure - both digital and analog. The depth of soundstage, the precise bass, the clarity was incredible.

    With regards to DSP, there isn't really a good way of incorporating DSP with vinyl - unless of course, you digitize your vinyl (GASP!). But digitizing your vinyl is precisely how the Devialet handles the analog signal, and you know what? It sounds DAMN GOOD and offers incredible customization not found in many (any?) analog phonostage.

    I kind of think DSP will be the next wave to hit hifi over the next 5 or 10 years.

    What do you think?
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  3. #2
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    Re: Acoustic Room Treatments vs DSP

    I think some would argue it's already here. I'm not ready to surrender my analog to digital yet.
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  4. #3
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    Re: Acoustic Room Treatments vs DSP

    I agree with both of you above however, if aesthetics and WAF permits, "the room" should be given the best opportunity to sing even if the room treatment is a subtle one.
    Steve

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  5. #4
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    Re: Acoustic Room Treatments vs DSP

    I prefer acoustic treatment plus DSP used to fix problems that remain.

  6. #5
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    Re: Acoustic Room Treatments vs DSP

    Room treatments should be first, with proper measurements as well. If your room is storing energy at certain frequencies, DSP doesn't fix things in the time domain. Get your rooms decay times even first.

  7. #6
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    Re: Acoustic Room Treatments vs DSP

    Quote Originally Posted by Vapor1 View Post
    Room treatments should be first, with proper measurements as well. If your room is storing energy at certain frequencies, DSP doesn't fix things in the time domain. Get your rooms decay times even first.
    Goldmund suggests that the Leonardo tech integrated into their Proteus design and DRC software model deals with the time domain as well. in fct, Goldmund is obsessed with speed and time even in their amps. There is a 9 minute Youtube on this by their CEO Michel Reverchon.
    NORMAN
    Custom PC with Memory Player Software Suite/ Modded Denon CD transport>Lampi GG1 (and sometimes PACIFIC) DHT tube Dac> Rowen 850W Isolating Transformer/ Rowen SS Preamp and PA1 monoblocs/Lampi Silk power cond. with Phase flipper> Heil AMT KITHARA & Syrinx in parallel hookup. Swiss cables (Reference line) for PC/interconnects and speaker cables. Goldmund Sweetcord PC. FTA Callisto unpowered USB cable. Basic analog: vintage Lenco L78 TT with Rowen mat, Denon MM cart, iFi iPhono2 with 15v Hynes SR3 LPSU. Synology 12 TB NAS. 2nd system:KenWin Bluetooth speaker 3rd system TBI Millemnium amp with Aulos speakers and SB Duo hookup.

  8. #7
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    Re: Acoustic Room Treatments vs DSP

    Quote Originally Posted by wisnon View Post
    Goldmund suggests that the Leonardo tech integrated into their Proteus design and DRC software model deals with the time domain as well. in fct, Goldmund is obsessed with speed and time even in their amps. There is a 9 minute Youtube on this by their CEO Michel Reverchon.
    Most DSP manufacturers say that, but it's only partially true. The real issue is if your room has a resonance, is storing energy at certain frequencies, the only way to keep it from being an issue is to never allow those frequencies to be played. DSP cannot change decay times, the physical geometry and makeup of the room determine that. Evening out decay times is the primary goal of room acoustic treatments.

    In short, DSP is no substitute for proper treatments.

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  10. #8
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    Re: Acoustic Room Treatments vs DSP

    The best example of DSP is in Marty's system in NJ, which is also a superbly designed room. Pictures at the bottom of the first post in the below link.

    He uses a modded TacT, and has it after the VTL preamp, before the Spectral 400, and has his Goldmund Studio TT running into the pre, so is doing A to D to A which theoretically shouldn't work but actually works beautifully. Worth visiting his place to challenge our own audiophile biases.

    http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showth...l=1#post227662

  11. #9
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    Re: Acoustic Room Treatments vs DSP

    Ryan, I dont all that much about this, so I take you point. However, does that only apply to microphone type of DSP? Goldmund's Proteus/Leonardo uses no microphone, rather they map the room and speaker design with up to 44,000 parameters and compensate matchematically for all this with an egghead algorithm that took 7 years to develop. I suspect they do some work with other leading names in the speaker business too, as I have seen speakers from well heeled names there (2 I know of, one of which is mentioned in a 6moons review).

    Pretueus is used for end to end design of new speakers with no human ear tuning interaction, and it also does DRC for home theratre and 2 channel setups.

    Have a look at their website to see if you can make heads or tail of their white papers (freely downloadable). It is over my head!
    NORMAN
    Custom PC with Memory Player Software Suite/ Modded Denon CD transport>Lampi GG1 (and sometimes PACIFIC) DHT tube Dac> Rowen 850W Isolating Transformer/ Rowen SS Preamp and PA1 monoblocs/Lampi Silk power cond. with Phase flipper> Heil AMT KITHARA & Syrinx in parallel hookup. Swiss cables (Reference line) for PC/interconnects and speaker cables. Goldmund Sweetcord PC. FTA Callisto unpowered USB cable. Basic analog: vintage Lenco L78 TT with Rowen mat, Denon MM cart, iFi iPhono2 with 15v Hynes SR3 LPSU. Synology 12 TB NAS. 2nd system:KenWin Bluetooth speaker 3rd system TBI Millemnium amp with Aulos speakers and SB Duo hookup.

  12. #10
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    Re: Acoustic Room Treatments vs DSP

    Quote Originally Posted by wisnon View Post
    Ryan, I dont all that much about this, so I take you point. However, does that only apply to microphone type of DSP? Goldmund's Proteus/Leonardo uses no microphone, rather they map the room and speaker design with up to 44,000 parameters and compensate matchematically for all this with an egghead algorithm that took 7 years to develop. I suspect they do some work with other leading names in the speaker business too, as I have seen speakers from well heeled names there (2 I know of, one of which is mentioned in a 6moons review).

    Pretueus is used for end to end design of new speakers with no human ear tuning interaction, and it also does DRC for home theratre and 2 channel setups.

    Have a look at their website to see if you can make heads or tail of their white papers (freely downloadable). It is over my head!
    Linn do something similarly half baked, why don't they just acoustically measure the individual room.
    Keith.
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