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  1. #11
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    Re: Subwoofers for muddier bass

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Go back to the Pass as well. Give that a try.
    Ok, will do that. Did you wanted to check if the Pass did not bloat the bass as the Nords ?

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  3. #12
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    Re: Subwoofers for muddier bass

    Quote Originally Posted by Devg View Post
    Ok, will do that. Did you wanted to check if the Pass did not bloat the bass as the Nords ?
    We need to rule out everything.


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    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: AAvik Electronics, Aurender, Ansuz Cables, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Avantgarde Acoustics, Ayre Acoustics, Berkeley Audio Design, Chord, Crystal Cable, Dali Loudspeakers, Entreq, Esoteric, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers, Focal Headphones, ISO Acoustics, KEF, Kimber Kable, KLAudio, KR Audio, Kronos, Lampizator, Lumin, Magico Loudspeakers, Manley Labs, Melco Audio, MicroMega, M2Tech, Ortofon, Pass Labs, PlayBack Designs, PS Audio, Quadraspire, Raidho Loudspeakers, Rega Turntables, REL Acoustics, Shunyata Research, Siltech, Solid Tech Racks, Sonoma Acoustics, SOtM, SRA, Straight Wire, Stillpoints, T+A, Tannoy Loudspeakers, Transfiguration Cartridges, Trenner & Friedl, Triode Corporation of Japan, VAC, Vandersteen Speakers, Vicoustics, Vitus Audio, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, ZYX Cartridges.

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  4. #13
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    Re: Subwoofers for muddier bass

    Well it will be a little easier to solve this problem since you have REW and can see as well as hear the results. Check out the waterfall plots in addition to the frequency response ones. Look for modal ringing in the range of 50 -300Hz and for 300mS or more.

    It takes trial and error and patience. Establish a centerline in the room and a way to mark the positions of the speakers and proposed listening position. Start moving the speakers fore or aft in 6" increments measuring as you go. Then move the listening position if you can once you've got the speakers and measurements sounding/looking good as that'll make an even bigger difference most likely. Once you've got the placements down try adding the bass traps.

    Of course you could buy Jim Smith's book "Get Better Sound" if none of this makes sense. It's chock full of other good stuff as well.

    Using subs adds a whole other level of complication but it does allow you to optimize sound stage separately from bass. I bet this is fixable without them.

    Good luck!

  5. #14
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    Re: Subwoofers for muddier bass

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Of course you could buy Jim Smith's book "Get Better Sound" if none of this makes sense. It's chock full of other good stuff as well.
    Thanks for the comment, Barry!

    FWIW - I am currently writing a series on correct subwoofer set-up with "full-range speakers" over at the Copper e-magazine. But it won't be quite what most audiophiles expect, especially if they suffer from ACK.

    ACK:

    http://www.psaudio.com/article/the-a...mon-knowledge/

    Subwoofery:

    http://www.psaudio.com/article/subwo...rick-or-treat/
    MBP (2), stripped down for music only; Curious USB; PS Audio LanRover; Audioquest Diamond ethernet; REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; Audioquest Diamond AES; Schiit Yggdrasil; Ayre QB-9 DSD; Ayre Codex; ASR Emitter II Exclusive; all electronics on Grand Prix Audio stands; mass-loaded Tannoy Canterburys on custom stands; Outboard Duelund xover bypassing internal Tannoy xover & Tannoy EQ; bi-wired with Duelund DCA16GA speaker cables; mass-loaded REL 212 SEs; Duelund DCA20GA ICs; Stealth Dream PCs; dedicated custom room; various room treatments; etc.

    www.getbettersound.co;

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  7. #15
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    Re: Subwoofers for muddier bass

    Some updates:

    After removing the traps, I felt something was missing with the sound. So I tried playing with the speaker positioning and re-adjusted to move it by a 1ft closer to the wall. I also had to move forward my listening position a bit. Bass is much better & taut but still a bit bloated.

    I am getting the TWL Digital American high current power cords for the Nords tomorrow. Will update the thread after it has settled down.

    @Mike, I tried the Pass, same results.

    @Barry, will do measurements over the weekends.

    @Jim, I have your DVD set for a while now. Is there anything in the book that is not covered in the video ? I am very much looking forward to the subwoofer setup series. I don't have any ACK whatsoever, can I get my hands on earlier ?

  8. #16
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    Re: Subwoofers for muddier bass

    Dev - does it sound like the bass lingers longer than the rest of the music or is the bass just flabby and uncontrolled? Also, are the speakers spiked?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: AAvik Electronics, Aurender, Ansuz Cables, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Avantgarde Acoustics, Ayre Acoustics, Berkeley Audio Design, Chord, Crystal Cable, Dali Loudspeakers, Entreq, Esoteric, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers, Focal Headphones, ISO Acoustics, KEF, Kimber Kable, KLAudio, KR Audio, Kronos, Lampizator, Lumin, Magico Loudspeakers, Manley Labs, Melco Audio, MicroMega, M2Tech, Ortofon, Pass Labs, PlayBack Designs, PS Audio, Quadraspire, Raidho Loudspeakers, Rega Turntables, REL Acoustics, Shunyata Research, Siltech, Solid Tech Racks, Sonoma Acoustics, SOtM, SRA, Straight Wire, Stillpoints, T+A, Tannoy Loudspeakers, Transfiguration Cartridges, Trenner & Friedl, Triode Corporation of Japan, VAC, Vandersteen Speakers, Vicoustics, Vitus Audio, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, ZYX Cartridges.

    www.suncoastaudio.com
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  9. #17
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    Re: Subwoofers for muddier bass

    Quote Originally Posted by Devg View Post
    Some updates:

    After removing the traps, I felt something was missing with the sound. So I tried playing with the speaker positioning and re-adjusted to move it by a 1ft closer to the wall. I also had to move forward my listening position a bit. Bass is much better & taut but still a bit bloated.
    Seat position first - then, speaker position. Always.

    Quote Originally Posted by Devg View Post
    @Jim, I have your DVD set for a while now. Is there anything in the book that is not covered in the video ?
    There are 202 tips in the book, so yes...

    But first, are you receiving the FREE Quarter Notes newsletters for GBS owners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devg View Post
    I am very much looking forward to the subwoofer setup series.
    There have been several installments already. Issue 14, 15, & 16.

    Quote Originally Posted by Devg View Post
    I don't have any ACK whatsoever, can I get my hands on earlier ?
    Sorry, unsure what you are asking.
    MBP (2), stripped down for music only; Curious USB; PS Audio LanRover; Audioquest Diamond ethernet; REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; Audioquest Diamond AES; Schiit Yggdrasil; Ayre QB-9 DSD; Ayre Codex; ASR Emitter II Exclusive; all electronics on Grand Prix Audio stands; mass-loaded Tannoy Canterburys on custom stands; Outboard Duelund xover bypassing internal Tannoy xover & Tannoy EQ; bi-wired with Duelund DCA16GA speaker cables; mass-loaded REL 212 SEs; Duelund DCA20GA ICs; Stealth Dream PCs; dedicated custom room; various room treatments; etc.

    www.getbettersound.co;

  10. #18
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    Re: Subwoofers for muddier bass

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Dev - does it sound like the bass lingers longer than the rest of the music or is the bass just flabby and uncontrolled? Also, are the speakers spiked?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Mike, the answer seems to be both. For some freq, it lingers a bit longer than others. I have listened to it briefly yesterday but I guess the only way to tell for sure is to take measurements. What I can say now is I can hear the bass but its not strong enough compared to the rest of the audio spectrum.

    I have hardwood floors. Currently the speakers are not spiked. I am using Herbies speaker decoupling gliders. I had Stillpoints Ultra SS on them sometime back but there was some good bit of resonance coming from the lower part of the speaker base. Maybe I wasn't doing it right. I can put it back or try the stock cones one more time.

  11. #19
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    Re: Subwoofers for muddier bass

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Smith View Post
    Seat position first - then, speaker position. Always.
    So this is what confuses me - so help me understand. How can I hear the bass and soundstage without putting the speakers in the right place ? In other words, in order to determine the seat position, do I need to put the speakers in a predetermined location ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Smith View Post
    There are 202 tips in the book, so yes...
    Ok, sounds good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Smith View Post
    But first, are you receiving the FREE Quarter Notes newsletters for GBS owners?
    Nope. I bought the DVD set from Amazon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Smith View Post

    There have been several installments already. Issue 14, 15, & 16.



    Sorry, unsure what you are asking.
    I wasn't aware of all the installments. How can I get them ?

  12. #20
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    Re: Subwoofers for muddier bass

    Sorry!

    I am on a RoomPlay voicing session.

    Will reply on Friday when I return.
    MBP (2), stripped down for music only; Curious USB; PS Audio LanRover; Audioquest Diamond ethernet; REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; Audioquest Diamond AES; Schiit Yggdrasil; Ayre QB-9 DSD; Ayre Codex; ASR Emitter II Exclusive; all electronics on Grand Prix Audio stands; mass-loaded Tannoy Canterburys on custom stands; Outboard Duelund xover bypassing internal Tannoy xover & Tannoy EQ; bi-wired with Duelund DCA16GA speaker cables; mass-loaded REL 212 SEs; Duelund DCA20GA ICs; Stealth Dream PCs; dedicated custom room; various room treatments; etc.

    www.getbettersound.co;

 

 
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