Mis-matched subs
Welcome to the AudioShark Forums.
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 38
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nipomo, CA
    Posts
    1,574
    Post Thanks / Like

    Mis-matched subs

    Seeking opinions. I have a small REL sub hooked up in my 2-channel system. I just want to get a little extra bass help. I am not a bass head, and certainly have no desire for any kind of boom at all. I look for clean clear sound, tight bass if you will. In the old days I was never a fan of sub-woofers because I felt they always added more boom then clarity.

    Anyway the little REL is tight and adds a little bass, however I also have a Klipsch sub in my storage room. It is from the Home Theater system hooked to the TV. I have no place that it fits or works with the built in wall unit housing the surround system. I am also not a huge surround buff and am just as happy with 2-channel for the TV .

    The Klipsch has about the same amount of power as the REL, a slightly larger driver (not much) and a bigger box. So my question is this, in your opinion would I be better to use just the REL or would it be worth hooking the un-matched subs up in my system, the REL on one side and the Klipsch on the other? Keep in mind the MC speakers do a pretty decent job on their own so the sub is just to add a little low end fill.

    I know the immediate answer is going to be to purchase a higher end sub, but that is just not possible right now. So what do you think about using mis-matched sub-woofers.
    Electronics: Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE, DAC-2v2SE, Recovery, Remedy | Audio Research VT50 |First Watt F6 | Benchmark DAC3 HGC | McIntosh MR85
    Speakers/Headphones: MC RL21 | Gingko Stands | REL TZero | KEF Kube | Sennheiser HD800S | KEF M500
    Sources: Falcon Tiki (Roon Headless Server) | Microsoft Surface Pro 3 (Roon Controller) | Marantz SA8005 | Magnum Dynalab ST-2
    Cables: Richard Gray | Wireworld | Audioquest | Tributaries | Kimber Kable | Wyred 4 Sound
    Power: Furman Elite 15i | iFi iPower | PS Audio Noise Harvesters x2

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Oregon Coast / N. Texas
    Posts
    2,752
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Mis-matched subs

    I sure would give it a try since you already have it. It's not ideal but you just never know until you try it and listen.
    Jock

    If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters.

    ---------

    Main: Lumin S1, UHA-HQ tape, Ayre KXR20, D'Agostino M400, Raidho D5, 2 Magico QSub15s, Kimber/Shunyata IC/SC, Shunyata Denalis/Typhons/Sigma PCs.

    Workshop: Lumin S1, Border Patrol, Volti Vittora w Volti subs, Triode Wire Labs IC/SC, Shunyata Denali/Sigma PCs.

    Apartment: Lumin U1, Ayre Codex, Focal Utopia, Senheiser HD-800 (modified), Shunyata Sigma PCs.


  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Tallahassee, Florida
    Posts
    1,407
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Mis-matched subs

    Randy

    I would try it at it's lowest crossover setting and then if it is ported see what it sounds like if you stuff the port. It just might work out for the time being and you won't know if you don't try. When you go to set them both up try using acoustic bass jazz like Ray Brown's Soular Energy.
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon Dl-301 Mk II, Marantz HD-CD1, Auralic Aries, W4S Recovery, Aqua La Voce S2, Musical Paradise MP-D2, Modwright LS-100 with tube phono board, PS Audio BHK 250, Nola KO's, (2) Rythmik F12SE, PC's -Neotech & Triode Wire Lab, IC's & SC's- Audio Sensibility Testament, (2) Blue Circle PLC FX-2's with BC-62 PC's

    Family Room - Oppo 83SE, Auralic Aries Mini w/LPS, W4S Recovery with iPower, Nuprime DAC-10, Oppo Sonica, Nord One Up SI, Spatial M3 Turbo S, (2) ACI Force XL's, Cables- Wireworld & Cullen Cable, SurgeX SA-1810

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nipomo, CA
    Posts
    1,574
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Mis-matched subs

    Thanks guys. I think I will go grab it from storage.
    Electronics: Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE, DAC-2v2SE, Recovery, Remedy | Audio Research VT50 |First Watt F6 | Benchmark DAC3 HGC | McIntosh MR85
    Speakers/Headphones: MC RL21 | Gingko Stands | REL TZero | KEF Kube | Sennheiser HD800S | KEF M500
    Sources: Falcon Tiki (Roon Headless Server) | Microsoft Surface Pro 3 (Roon Controller) | Marantz SA8005 | Magnum Dynalab ST-2
    Cables: Richard Gray | Wireworld | Audioquest | Tributaries | Kimber Kable | Wyred 4 Sound
    Power: Furman Elite 15i | iFi iPower | PS Audio Noise Harvesters x2

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nipomo, CA
    Posts
    1,574
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Mis-matched subs

    The Klipsch crossover goes from 80-160, is 100 watt, 8 inch ported. The REL crossover goes from 30-120, is 100 watt, 6.5 inch and not ported. So I set the Klipsch to 80 and stuffed the port (great idea) to smooth the boom out. I set the REL to mid point, so about 75. The REL's gain has to be set much higher since the Klipsch takes off like gang busters... not a bad start... oh I positioned each just outside of both speakers... at their stand base.
    Electronics: Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE, DAC-2v2SE, Recovery, Remedy | Audio Research VT50 |First Watt F6 | Benchmark DAC3 HGC | McIntosh MR85
    Speakers/Headphones: MC RL21 | Gingko Stands | REL TZero | KEF Kube | Sennheiser HD800S | KEF M500
    Sources: Falcon Tiki (Roon Headless Server) | Microsoft Surface Pro 3 (Roon Controller) | Marantz SA8005 | Magnum Dynalab ST-2
    Cables: Richard Gray | Wireworld | Audioquest | Tributaries | Kimber Kable | Wyred 4 Sound
    Power: Furman Elite 15i | iFi iPower | PS Audio Noise Harvesters x2

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    2580, Australia
    Posts
    1,803
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Mis-matched subs

    great stuff. One thing to note, if the magic smoke makes an appearance, be sure to check what the colour is...
    ​Kev....

    Aria 2, Wire World Platinum, Siltech Royal Signature, Soulution 520, Luxman DA-06, oPPo 95, Ayon Epsilon monos, Marten Getz II, Wilson Benesch Infrasonic Generators, Isotek Super Titan, Stillpoints & HRS ...

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    North Florida
    Posts
    1,683
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Mis-matched subs

    Randy.......Having been an observer to the inauguration of your two channel system and watched and read about it's expansion and changes I think it is accurate to say you will ultimately be unhappy with a mismatched subwoofer arrangement. Again, my observations have lead me to believe you tend to be detail oriented. This leads me to believe the mismatch will eventually bug you, perhaps not from a performance standpoint as much as from an aesthetic one.

    My second thought about your post is not all subwoofers are boomy, nor do you have to be a bass-head to appreciate a properly integrated bottom octave in your system. As clean as the Music Culture RL21's sound, the 6.5" midrange/woofer does not reach the frequency depths a good subwoofer does in stride. Even though the RL21's midrange woofer's claimed range is 29Hz, it is substantially rolled off at that point. What's even more important is the inter-modulation distortion generated in the midrange as the driver attempts to reproduce the lowest frequency range that exceeds its capabilities.

    I had a similar experience with the Sonus faber Guarneri Memento speakers that I had in my studio system. On their own they sounded very good, even down into the mid 45Hz territory where they began to roll off quickly below that range. When I added a pair of powered McIntosh XLS112 subwoofers and a Bryston 10B active crossover the performance difference was night and day. By allowing the Bryston crossover to route everything below 70Hz to the subwoofers, thus relieving the Guarneri Memento's of having to deal with the lowest octave, the midrange performance and dynamic range of the GM's improved substantially, with the added benefit of now having a full range performance that included rich deep bass. The advantage of this arrangement proved to be a genuine step up in the system's sound across the board. You can read more about my experience here: Bryston 10B Active Crossover In Studio System

    I said that to make this suggestion. JL Audio has recently introduce a new E-Series of subwoofers. They are reasonably priced and remarkably sophisticated in the different ways they can be incorporated into a system. I have a friend who uses a single JL Audio E112 subwoofer with two way JBL speakers. The E112 allows the low frequency crossover point to send only the frequency range above that point to the power amplifier driving the speakers. In other words, no external crossover is necessary to keep the low frequencies at the subwoofer and everything above the crossover point routed to the left and right channel speakers. This capability can be used with a single subwoofer or a stereo pair. This arrangement would be perfect for your system. The improved midrange performance of the RL20's will astonish you, not to mention the additional dynamic range available from your power amplifier because it no longer has to reproduce the lowest octave, and the E112 subwoofer will reproduce the lowest octave with the clarity and speed you seek.

    Yes, I heard you when you said you didn't want to consider a new purchase. I'm just planting a seed for you to think about. The E-Series JL Audio subwoofers are reasonably priced and are serious performers, and that includes their E110, too.
    Dan

    STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, PurePower 2000, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Never Connected PSU, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario

    LIVING ROOM - McIntosh C2300, MC452, MR85, Esoteric K-03, Olive 04HD, Micro Seiki DD40, Ortofon Cadenza Blue, PS Audio Power Plant Premier, Furutech Flux 50, Sonos Connect, PMC EB1i, JL Audio f113

    VINTAGE - McIntosh MA230, Tandberg 3011A tuner, Olive 04HD, JBL 4312A

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nipomo, CA
    Posts
    1,574
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Mis-matched subs

    Thanks Dan... I appreciate the input and am fairly certain I will eventually go in that direction. Yes you can tell I am detail oriented and the cosmetic element of the mis-match will probably drive me crazy. However, at this point, since it was taking up space in storage... why not give it a go .
    Electronics: Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE, DAC-2v2SE, Recovery, Remedy | Audio Research VT50 |First Watt F6 | Benchmark DAC3 HGC | McIntosh MR85
    Speakers/Headphones: MC RL21 | Gingko Stands | REL TZero | KEF Kube | Sennheiser HD800S | KEF M500
    Sources: Falcon Tiki (Roon Headless Server) | Microsoft Surface Pro 3 (Roon Controller) | Marantz SA8005 | Magnum Dynalab ST-2
    Cables: Richard Gray | Wireworld | Audioquest | Tributaries | Kimber Kable | Wyred 4 Sound
    Power: Furman Elite 15i | iFi iPower | PS Audio Noise Harvesters x2

  9. Likes the professor liked this post
  10. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nipomo, CA
    Posts
    1,574
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Mis-matched subs

    Ok Dan, so looking at the JL Audio's (for down the road)... it looks like the output from the pre-amplifier goes to the sub-woofer and then the output from the sub-woofer goes to the amplifier. Too bad it does not utilize XLR balanced ....

    The reasoning makes a ton of sense.... are there other companies that use this type of configuration?

    I am sure at this point any purchases are being put on hold. My wife is talking about maybe selling our house and moving, maybe to Florida even. My sister and brother both have homes in the same complex in Ocala. She is starting to get concerned about our ability to comfortably retire here in California, which we would be able to do in Florida ....
    Electronics: Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE, DAC-2v2SE, Recovery, Remedy | Audio Research VT50 |First Watt F6 | Benchmark DAC3 HGC | McIntosh MR85
    Speakers/Headphones: MC RL21 | Gingko Stands | REL TZero | KEF Kube | Sennheiser HD800S | KEF M500
    Sources: Falcon Tiki (Roon Headless Server) | Microsoft Surface Pro 3 (Roon Controller) | Marantz SA8005 | Magnum Dynalab ST-2
    Cables: Richard Gray | Wireworld | Audioquest | Tributaries | Kimber Kable | Wyred 4 Sound
    Power: Furman Elite 15i | iFi iPower | PS Audio Noise Harvesters x2

  11. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Tallahassee, Florida
    Posts
    1,407
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Mis-matched subs

    The fact that there is no state or locality income tax plus the lower general property and insurance costs would sure make it easier in addition to having family around. Ocala is a nice town plus kind of gets you close to the middle of the state for travel in any direction. Just don't move to close to Mike or you would probably stay in the dog house.
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon Dl-301 Mk II, Marantz HD-CD1, Auralic Aries, W4S Recovery, Aqua La Voce S2, Musical Paradise MP-D2, Modwright LS-100 with tube phono board, PS Audio BHK 250, Nola KO's, (2) Rythmik F12SE, PC's -Neotech & Triode Wire Lab, IC's & SC's- Audio Sensibility Testament, (2) Blue Circle PLC FX-2's with BC-62 PC's

    Family Room - Oppo 83SE, Auralic Aries Mini w/LPS, W4S Recovery with iPower, Nuprime DAC-10, Oppo Sonica, Nord One Up SI, Spatial M3 Turbo S, (2) ACI Force XL's, Cables- Wireworld & Cullen Cable, SurgeX SA-1810

  12. Likes bzr liked this post
 

 
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 LastLast