MQA Discussion

[Mike]

May 4, 2016 - This year’s High End sees MQA, the innovative music technology, reveal further business updates, including new content and hardware partnerships.

MQA Music Partners

High Res Audio, the renowned international high-resolution music download service, joins the list of MQA content providers, meaning music lovers visiting www.highresaudio.com can download high-quality releases from renowned labels including 2L, Acoustic Music Records, Bauer Studios / Neuklang, Eudora Records, Jazz Arts, Personality Records, Mons Records, Ozella Music and Triplet Records. A total of 30 albums will be available at launch, with more to come over the coming weeks.

Nordic label 2L adds to its MQA catalogue, with new arrivals including an extraordinary sounding Mozart MQA remaster. The new ‘MQA remix 2016’ of the Marianne Thorsen and Trondheim Soloists Violin Concertos 2006 release, ‘white gloved’ by 2L founder Morten Lindberg and MQA creator Bob Stuart, saw the original analogue-to-digital-converters brought out of storage and analysed, going back to each individual microphone feed from the archive. The previous release, the world’s first commercial recording in DXD resolution, was declared a “Record To Die For” by Stereophile Magazine, and won the Spellemann-prize as Best Classical Album – now listeners can experience what has become an audiophile reference point in MQA quality.

MQA also warmly welcomes Eudora Records, whose award-winning recordings are available at www.highresaudio.com. The Spanish label is currently updating its entire catalogue, with MQA versions set to become available through spring and summer 2016. Commenting on the announcement, Eudora Co-Founder, Gonzalo Noqué, said: "On every Eudora Records project that I work on, I’m driven by a search for excellence, so I admire those individuals and companies who share a similar motivation and pioneering ideas, like Bob Stuart and MQA. The fact that MQA’s encoding is tailored to each recording’s particular AD converter speaks volumes about MQA’s search for excellence. We are currently finalising the details of our distribution deals with partners and content providers, with the aim of making all of our recordings available in MQA over the coming weeks."

MQA Playback Partners

As well as witnessing new MQA content announcements, High End 2016 also marks the unveilings of further MQA-ready playback products. German maker Brinkmann releases its Nyquist DAC, complete with MQA support. Show visitors to Brinkmann at Atrium 4, E108 can hear a prototype of the new DAC, which is due on-sale in Q4 2016.

Mytek, showing in Hall 4, adds to its MQA-ready line. The American brand already offers the MQA-ready Brooklyn DAC and now the advanced prototype of the more upscale MQA-capable Manhattan DAC will be on display and shipping in August 2016.

More terrific news for music fans – as well as a ‘world first’ for wireless multi-room systems – comes in the form of Bluesound’s announcement that, with effect from 1st June 2016, MQA will be available on all of its Players via a free firmware update. The Canadian maker’s BluOS firmware version 2.2 enables MQA on all BluOS-enabled wireless music systems.

Commenting on the above news, Greg Stidsen, Bluesound Director of Technology and Product Planning, said: “MQA is a natural match for Bluesound’s hi-res music and wireless streaming platform, and we’re very excited to be the first wireless multi-room system to play back music exactly how it was recorded in the studio.” Bluesound is attending High End 2016, holding live MQA demonstrations in Atrium 3.1, Room C112.

Show visitors can also experience MQA being played on products from Meridian Audio, Onkyo and Pioneer. Those looking for ultimate sound quality ‘on the go’ can hear the Pioneer XDP-100R and Onkyo’s DP-X1 portable digital audio players, both of which have recently received MQA firmware updates. And not quite as portable, but just as impressive, is Meridian Audio’s flagship 818v3, which will be revealing its full capabilities with MQA music.

ABOUT MQA
Using pioneering scientific research into how people hear, the MQA team has created a technology that captures the full magic of an original studio performance. MQA is a revolutionary end-to-end technology that delivers master quality audio in a file that’s small enough to stream or download. It is also backward compatible, so will play on any device – the days of sacrificing quality for convenience are finally over. MQA is a UK-based private company, visit www.mqa.co.uk for further information.

[mep]

after 2-3 years of waiting, there are 30 albums available?

[lallygagger]

From reading up on the Explorer2 it does not sound like it is nearly as good for other formats as the DACs that people probably already own. It also sounds like it is fairly minimal as MQA. Therefore the potential of experiencing MQA at the level as is described in The Absolute Sound article would require equipment of higher level. Otherwise you would be getting a cut back MQA which I doubt would be as good as a well done DSD. Therefore, getting many other companies on board, hopefully with hardware and software solutions will be critical to truly make MQA reach it's potential.

Wherever did you read that about the Explorer 2?
I have been looking and looking and cannot find any article that expresses such an opinion. On the contrary all I can find concerning this DAC is that people, both reviewers and users, are finding to be rather superb sounding.
Also, I could be wrong, but as far as I know, for quite a while it was the ONLY DAC which could decode MQA. So, if that is indeed the case, then it would follow that when Meridian was introducing and demonstrating their MQA technology they would have had to use it to do so.
Does it make sense that they would try to sell their technology using an inferior decoder to do so?

Anyway, can you point me to the article you read?

[radioactive]

Is it not ironic that the DAC is named the Nyquist? After all, MQA is supposedly all about making Nyquist's algorithm/rules obsolete (if you buy into all the MQA buzz).

I also get the sense of an issue when Noqué said that every MQA encoding is tailored to each recordings particular AD converter, and he goes on to say they're going to redo their whole catalog in MQA and make it available in the next few weeks. Is their catalog small, the process not really that tailored, or have they got a massive amount of resources available to do the conversion? If it's the latter it sounds like a very risky investment on an unproven (market-wise) technology. That's the kind of thing that bankrupts companies...or if they gamble successfully doesn't. But the fact is it can be an unnecessary gamble of investor's money. Sounds like some labels are betting the farm on MQA. A lot of labels said the same thing about DSD and they pulled back at the last minute so only time will tell.

May 4, 2016 - This year’s High End sees MQA, the innovative music technology, reveal further business updates, including new content and hardware partnerships.

MQA Music Partners

High Res Audio, the renowned international high-resolution music download service, joins the list of MQA content providers, meaning music lovers visiting www.highresaudio.com can download high-quality releases from renowned labels including 2L, Acoustic Music Records, Bauer Studios / Neuklang, Eudora Records, Jazz Arts, Personality Records, Mons Records, Ozella Music and Triplet Records. A total of 30 albums will be available at launch, with more to come over the coming weeks.

Nordic label 2L adds to its MQA catalogue, with new arrivals including an extraordinary sounding Mozart MQA remaster. The new ‘MQA remix 2016’ of the Marianne Thorsen and Trondheim Soloists Violin Concertos 2006 release, ‘white gloved’ by 2L founder Morten Lindberg and MQA creator Bob Stuart, saw the original analogue-to-digital-converters brought out of storage and analysed, going back to each individual microphone feed from the archive. The previous release, the world’s first commercial recording in DXD resolution, was declared a “Record To Die For” by Stereophile Magazine, and won the Spellemann-prize as Best Classical Album – now listeners can experience what has become an audiophile reference point in MQA quality.

MQA also warmly welcomes Eudora Records, whose award-winning recordings are available at www.highresaudio.com. The Spanish label is currently updating its entire catalogue, with MQA versions set to become available through spring and summer 2016. Commenting on the announcement, Eudora Co-Founder, Gonzalo Noqué, said: "On every Eudora Records project that I work on, I’m driven by a search for excellence, so I admire those individuals and companies who share a similar motivation and pioneering ideas, like Bob Stuart and MQA. The fact that MQA’s encoding is tailored to each recording’s particular AD converter speaks volumes about MQA’s search for excellence. We are currently finalising the details of our distribution deals with partners and content providers, with the aim of making all of our recordings available in MQA over the coming weeks."

MQA Playback Partners

As well as witnessing new MQA content announcements, High End 2016 also marks the unveilings of further MQA-ready playback products. German maker Brinkmann releases its Nyquist DAC, complete with MQA support. Show visitors to Brinkmann at Atrium 4, E108 can hear a prototype of the new DAC, which is due on-sale in Q4 2016.

Mytek, showing in Hall 4, adds to its MQA-ready line. The American brand already offers the MQA-ready Brooklyn DAC and now the advanced prototype of the more upscale MQA-capable Manhattan DAC will be on display and shipping in August 2016.

More terrific news for music fans – as well as a ‘world first’ for wireless multi-room systems – comes in the form of Bluesound’s announcement that, with effect from 1st June 2016, MQA will be available on all of its Players via a free firmware update. The Canadian maker’s BluOS firmware version 2.2 enables MQA on all BluOS-enabled wireless music systems.

Commenting on the above news, Greg Stidsen, Bluesound Director of Technology and Product Planning, said: “MQA is a natural match for Bluesound’s hi-res music and wireless streaming platform, and we’re very excited to be the first wireless multi-room system to play back music exactly how it was recorded in the studio.” Bluesound is attending High End 2016, holding live MQA demonstrations in Atrium 3.1, Room C112.

Show visitors can also experience MQA being played on products from Meridian Audio, Onkyo and Pioneer. Those looking for ultimate sound quality ‘on the go’ can hear the Pioneer XDP-100R and Onkyo’s DP-X1 portable digital audio players, both of which have recently received MQA firmware updates. And not quite as portable, but just as impressive, is Meridian Audio’s flagship 818v3, which will be revealing its full capabilities with MQA music.

ABOUT MQA
Using pioneering scientific research into how people hear, the MQA team has created a technology that captures the full magic of an original studio performance. MQA is a revolutionary end-to-end technology that delivers master quality audio in a file that’s small enough to stream or download. It is also backward compatible, so will play on any device – the days of sacrificing quality for convenience are finally over. MQA is a UK-based private company, visit www.mqa.co.uk for further information.

[lallygagger]

Is it not ironic that the DAC is named the Nyquist? After all, MQA is supposedly all about making Nyquist's algorithm/rules obsolete (if you buy into all the MQA buzz).

I also get the sense of an issue when Noqué said that every MQA encoding is tailored to each recordings particular AD converter, and he goes on to say they're going to redo their whole catalog in MQA and make it available in the next few weeks. Is their catalog small, the process not really that tailored, or have they got a massive amount of resources available to do the conversion? If it's the latter it sounds like a very risky investment on an unproven (market-wise) technology. That's the kind of thing that bankrupts companies...or if they gamble successfully doesn't. But the fact is it can be an unnecessary gamble of investor's money. Sounds like some labels are betting the farm on MQA. A lot of labels said the same thing about DSD and they pulled back at the last minute so only time will tell.

I checked out the Eudora website. Their online catalogue only shows 6 albums. So a very small company indeed, it seems.
The High Res Audio website shows nearly 500 albums three of which are already available in MQA. My guess is that most companies will convert only a few albums at a time in order to see if they will sell with companies like 2L and Eudora being the exception.
2L has always been a company dedicated to sound quality and has been willing to risk in the pursuit of excellence. It is a company that offers titles that wouldn't appeal to the masses... perhaps not even to most audiophiles. Plus they dedicated themselves to multichannel SACD music which, I believe, must still have a very small audience. Then they threw themselves behind Bluray music-only which must have an even smaller market appeal. Despite that 2L offered us the very first Bluray multichannel music-only disc.
What this tell me is that 2L is more dedicated to chasing superior sound quality than it is to chasing the almighty Krone.
So if 2L and Eudora are any indication it would seem that there are indeed companies who are willing to ''risk it'' for the sake of sound quality. These companies seem to find their niche in the market.

As I read more and more forum posts, I find that the issue seems to be that in order to fully enjoy MQA sound quality we have to spend more money either on new hardware or on updates to our present DACs. If it weren't for that, which of us on this forum would not readily buy MQA files if they indeed offer better sound quality? I know I would be buying them without hesitation. But the ''better sound quality'' is, in fact, dependent on different hardware or, at least, upgrades.

But hasn't new hardware always been the case? When we went from video and audio cassettes didn't we have to purchase new hardware? And what about multi-channel surround sound. Even if only to enhance movie watching it is obvious that surround sound is ONLY about the audio experience. Yet people spend money (sometimes a lot of it) to achieve the best possible multichannel systems in their homes... and not only for films, but also for music. When SACD and DVD-A and, finally, Bluray came along we had to give up our old DVD players and purchase compatible players. 2L was the leader with respect to music but then other labels followed suit and the result is that today we have a very nice selection of Bluray music... small, yes, but still very nice, in my opinion.

When we went from 16/44.1 to 24/88.2,24/96,24/192 didn't we have to buy DACs and/or players capable of decoding those files? Isn't this true of DSD as well?

For those who switch from digital to vinyl a change of hardware is necessary and yet they do it willingly, sometimes spending a lot to optimize their systems, because they love the sound of vinyl... and they do it despite the fact that even today there is a much smaller selection of music on vinyl than there is on digital... to say nothing of how small the selection was when vinyl started making its comeback. But some recording companies and vendors that cared about quality got behind vinyl anyway even though the market at the time was small.

I would like to point out that with the exception of video and audio cassettes all of the other formats are still available... even DVD-A. No one may be recording DVD-A anymore, but you can still buy it (I just bought some from AIX records). What this means to me, is that I can pick and choose at will.

Beyond any potential advantages, MQA has some advantages over the other formats.
1) It uses very small files which require less memory and
2) it can be played even if you do not have MQA encoded equipment.

Just these factors alone could be sufficient to garner a reasonable share of the market for this technology. I am sure that hi-res recording companies and vendors are very aware that this means that now they can reach the users of small portable devices (cell phones, iPods, etc.)... a very large sector of the market, indeed, seeing as how nearly everyone has one... a sector of the market that previously was not available to purveyors of hi-res. And this fact alone may be one of the main reasons why a lot of companies will come on board. Not just the small boutique companies like 2L and Eudora but the bigger companies as well who are more interested in money than in sound quality.

Thus, at the end of the day, to become viable MQA does not really need the approval of audiophiles who cry out for ''quality'' recordings because it can appeal to a much wider audience than that... and the vendors know it.

As I stated above, all formats still exist and each of them has found its niche. MQA is another one and it too will find its niche. And we, the consumers, benefit because we have yet another option to choose from. Aren't we lucky?

I may be wrong, of course, but my prediction is that MQA will be very successful despite the fact that some of us may be reluctant to spend some money to update our systems to accommodate it.

[wklie]

Beyond any potential advantages, MQA has some advantages over the other formats.
1) It uses very small files
2) it can be played even if you do not have MQA encoded equipment.

On 2) there's also the marketing claim that even without MQA decoding, the MQA files will sound better than non-MQA files, due to the way MQA files are processed.

[radioactive]

I think one of the bigger issues is that consumers (who've been through SACD, DVD-A, etc.) are sick and tired of the constant changes and hollow promises of the next panacea in audio that turns out to be a flop. It's hard to get excited about yet another format. To add insult to injury this one is shrouded in hidden rights management, licensing, and marketing that's unprecedented since the likes of Presidential campaigns.

The same thing happened with cellular technology a few years ago. US consumers are no longer the early adopters of technologies. Japanese (and other) markets are because we don't want to spend the money to have the latest technology and be part of those who decide what's going to be worth while or not. I guess you could say those who can afford it are more cautious with their spending or are "burned out" from the constant upgrade process. Now it's hitting the audio industry because technology is playing a big role with the recent advances.

It's interesting that a UK company is behind this technology push, and what will be just as interesting is how adoption differs between Europe, Asia, and the US. The market is global and just because it fails in the US doesn't mean it fails period; so many other markets have a say in this which is why I am highly skeptical it will succeed.

But hasn't new hardware always been the case? When we went from video and audio cassettes didn't we have to purchase new hardware? And what about multi-channel surround sound. Even if only to enhance movie watching it is obvious that surround sound is ONLY about the audio experience. Yet people spend money (sometimes a lot of it) to achieve the best possible multichannel systems in their homes... and not only for films, but also for music. When SACD and DVD-A and, finally, Bluray came along we had to give up our old DVD players and purchase compatible players. 2L was the leader with respect to music but then other labels followed suit and the result is that today we have a very nice selection of Bluray music... small, yes, but still very nice, in my opinion.

When we went from 16/44.1 to 24/88.2,24/96,24/192 didn't we have to buy DACs and/or players capable of decoding those files? Isn't this true of DSD as well?

For those who switch from digital to vinyl a change of hardware is necessary and yet they do it willingly, sometimes spending a lot to optimize their systems, because they love the sound of vinyl... and they do it despite the fact that even today there is a much smaller selection of music on vinyl than there is on digital... to say nothing of how small the selection was when vinyl started making its comeback. But some recording companies and vendors that cared about quality got behind vinyl anyway even though the market at the time was small.

[j2020]

I think one of the bigger issues is that consumers (who've been through SACD, DVD-A, etc.) are sick and tired of the constant changes and hollow promises of the next panacea in audio that turns out to be a flop. It's hard to get excited about yet another format. To add insult to injury this one is shrouded in hidden rights management, licensing, and marketing that's unprecedented since the likes of Presidential campaigns.

The same thing happened with cellular technology a few years ago. US consumers are no longer the early adopters of technologies. Japanese (and other) markets are because we don't want to spend the money to have the latest technology and be part of those who decide what's going to be worth while or not. I guess you could say those who can afford it are more cautious with their spending or are "burned out" from the constant upgrade process. Now it's hitting the audio industry because technology is playing a big role with the recent advances.

It's interesting that a UK company is behind this technology push, and what will be just as interesting is how adoption differs between Europe, Asia, and the US. The market is global and just because it fails in the US doesn't mean it fails period; so many other markets have a say in this which is why I am highly skeptical it will succeed.

You sound like one angry sourpuss and it is difficult to understand why.
For every new tech that is successful, there will be a few that must fall by the wayside.
We should be grateful for redbook which keeps sounding better and better with the latest dac tech today.
And hi-res PCM opened our ears to a higher quality format.
Instead of dwelling on the flops, I would rather thank my lucky stars to be able to enjoy the ones that succeed.
Well, some are hard-wired from birth to see life either half full or half empty. You know who you are.

[Mike]

Warner Music Group & MQA Enter Long-Term Licensing Deal
Munich, May 6, 2016: Warner Music Group (WMG) today announced a long-term licensing deal with music technology specialists MQA. The agreement – the first between MQA and any major music company – will significantly increase music fans’ access to hi-resolution music globally. The agreement paves the way for recordings from WMG’s diverse roster of acclaimed artists and its world-renowned catalogue to be made available in studio master quality through MQA distributors.
MQA is a revolutionary technology, which delivers master quality audio in a file small enough to stream or download. By delivering the sound of the studio masters from WMG’s iconic labels, MQA will enable the listener to step into the magic of the artists’ original performances. MQA music is currently available via High Res Audio, Onkyo Music, e-Onkyo, 7digital, 2L and Technics Tracks. Over the coming months, MQA will expand to more streaming platforms and into download stores worldwide.
Bob Stuart, Creator of MQA, commented: “This collaboration is a giant step forward for MQA and music fans everywhere. We have been working tirelessly to ensure labels, studios, artists, services and playback partners understand the potential of our technology and the responses have been overwhelming. MQA is about bringing the most authentic sound to music lovers all over the world and WMG is our first major partner to help drive this mission forward.”
Craig Kallman, Chairman & CEO of WMG’s Atlantic Records division, noted: “The digital music era has been all about convenience. It is fantastic that we can listen to virtually any song, anywhere, any time. In that process, however, convenience has trumped sound quality, and we have gotten further away from the sound that artists work so hard to create. MQA makes hi-resolution music easy to stream or download to any device. Music fans will love it when they hear it, and WMG is thrilled to be partnering with MQA to take the next step in bringing hi-resolution music to consumers across the globe.”

[A.S.]

and it is a handy format for portable players; http://www.whathifi.com/news/pioneer...s-music-player

[lallygagger]

On 2) there's also the marketing claim that even without MQA decoding, the MQA files will sound better than non-MQA files, due to the way MQA files are processed.

Unfortunately I found this not to be true. I downloaded all of the 2L free MQA files. As it turns out I had copies of 2 of these same songs in other resolution files... North County II (16//96) and the Mozart Violin Concerto no 4 in D Major (24/192 and also in DSD). Try as I might, with my non MQA DAC I cannot hear one iota of difference between any of these versions and MQA.
However I have not tried MQA against 16/44.1 because i don't have the equivalent files. So as far as I know there may be a difference between MQA and 16/44.1 when using a non MQA DAC. I can deduce that there most likely is seeing as how MQA files which read as 24/44.1 sound as good to me as 24/192 and 16/96.

But a deduction is not the actual experience so I don't really know.

I also wonder if there would be a difference if the MQA versions of those songs had been born as MQA. It is safe to assume that 2L did not gather together the performers and do a whole new recording. They modified the existing recordings to MQA. So I wonder if a file recorded from scratch using MQA throughout the whole process (AD in the studio/DA at home) would then sound better than the 44.1,88.2,96,or 192 version when played back through a non MQA DAC. We could only know that if a recording studio were to record a session in all versions simultaneously which we could then compare.

In my opinion the same reasoning applies to all up-sampled music. The DSD version of the Mozart Violin Concerto was not born as DSD it was up-sampled and I cannot tell any difference at all between it and the 192 version. (I also have a DAC that supports DSD).

BUT... I have the Bluray version of that song which I play on my multichannel system... and that version, IMO, is SPECTACULAR... far and away better than any of the other versions. I don't know how 2L originally recorded song because I also have the SACD version (when buying Bluray from 2L they send you both) and it is decidedly not as good. I have become convinced that the only way to listen to a large orchestra is through a good multichannel system. I have quite a few orchestra album in multichannel Bluray and they are all stunning.

In any case with respect to MQA played through a non MQA DAC I have found that it is not willy-nilly better than hi-res non MQA files.

This leaves me wondering what listening to MQA with an MQA encoded DAC would be like.

In a previous response to Randy Myers I had speculated that Meridian had been using the Explorer 2 to demonstrate the MQA technology. As it turns out, that speculation was inaccurate.
I wrote to Robert Harley and he told me that Meridian uses the 808 V6 ($22,000... gulp!) to demonstrate MQA.
With respect to to the Explorer 2's handling of PCM he confirmed what Randy said... that it is a ''competent player not an outstanding one.'' But with respect to MQA he said that the Explorer 2 sounds vastly better with MQA than with PCM.
When I asked him if he thought that MQA playback was better with the 808 V6 than with the Explorer 2, he wrote back saying that the the Explorer 2 would give me the MQA experience.
I am wondering... Has anybody gotten ahold of an Explorer 2 and listened to the 2L files? If so, would that person please share his/her experience with us?

[lallygagger]

I think one of the bigger issues is that consumers (who've been through SACD, DVD-A, etc.) are sick and tired of the constant changes and hollow promises of the next panacea in audio that turns out to be a flop. It's hard to get excited about yet another format. To add insult to injury this one is shrouded in hidden rights management, licensing, and marketing that's unprecedented since the likes of Presidential campaigns.

The same thing happened with cellular technology a few years ago. US consumers are no longer the early adopters of technologies. Japanese (and other) markets are because we don't want to spend the money to have the latest technology and be part of those who decide what's going to be worth while or not. I guess you could say those who can afford it are more cautious with their spending or are "burned out" from the constant upgrade process. Now it's hitting the audio industry because technology is playing a big role with the recent advances.

It's interesting that a UK company is behind this technology push, and what will be just as interesting is how adoption differs between Europe, Asia, and the US. The market is global and just because it fails in the US doesn't mean it fails period; so many other markets have a say in this which is why I am highly skeptical it will succeed.

There may be some merit in your assessment, radioactive. I know that I certainly have had the ''Oh groan, now I have to spend yet more money?'' experience in the past.
But over all I agree with j2020 where he says, ''Instead of dwelling on the flops, I would rather thank my lucky stars to be able to enjoy the ones that succeed.''

Also, with respect to MQA viability Mike's posts and that of A.S. seem to confirm what I said in a previous post. The success of this technology does not depend on the very small sector of the market that we audiophiles represent. It will not fail because some of us might be tired of the endless pursuit of ''perfect'' sound quality.
The target market is much much vaster than just us. While I know that ultimately anything is possible, I just do not see how this one can fail?

[lallygagger]

I have a question. Have any of the other technological advances to improve sound quality ever gotten as much publicity as MQA is now getting?

[Mike]

Also, with respect to MQA viability Mike's posts and that of A.S. seem to confirm what I said in a previous post. The success of this technology does not depend on the very small sector of the market that we audiophiles represent. It will not fail because some of us might be tired of the endless pursuit of ''perfect'' sound quality.
The target market is much much vaster than just us. While I know that ultimately is possible, I just do not see how this one can fail? [/COLOR]

Exactly. Meridian made this very clear to me when I first spoke to them about it many moons ago.

Here is how I think audiophiles should look at MQA: it's another format that will not require you to buy your seventeenth copy of Miles Davis Kind of Blue. MQA will be for new music downloads, but more importantly, streaming services such as Tidal. If you love your existing DAC and your manufacturer has no plans for a MQA upgrade, then if you have an extra input on your preamp, you can consider a modestly priced MQA DAC - I believe they even start at $199 or go for something more robust if your budget warrants it. You can use the USB output on your Aurender N10/Lumin U1/Computer/etc. to feed your existing DAC. You then use another output to feed your MQA DAC.

But I suspect, most Audiophiles will want a world class DAC that does it all - PCM, DSD and now, MQA. I predict less DSD/PCM focused purchases and more MQA focused listening via Tidal. With ROON getting on board with MQA, it makes for an exciting experience.

If you have not seen the Time Warner press release I posted this morning, go to page 11 here and check it out. For MQA, that's yuuuuuge!

Let me reiterate. I have heard many MQA demos. Some songs completely blew me away. Others were "meh". I remain very intrigued by the technology and look forward to trying it in my own system.

[Mike]

I have a question. Have any of the other technological advances to improve sound quality ever gotten as much publicity as MQA is now getting?

The CD did. But since then...no.

[lallygagger]

From Mike's last post:
''Craig Kallman, Chairman & CEO of WMG’s Atlantic Records division, noted: “The digital music era has been all about convenience. It is fantastic that we can listen to virtually any song, anywhere, any time. In that process, however, convenience has trumped sound quality, and we have gotten further away from the sound that artists work so hard to create.''

If MQA really does deliver the sound quality that they claim it does, will not the artists themselves, if they value their creative work, not begin demanding that their session be recorded using MQA technology?

[lallygagger]

The CD did. But since then...no.

Thus another factor contributing to the ultimate success of this technology. Publicity, as we know, super important.

I have faith in human kind. I can see why MP3 has been so successful and I don't think that it is a question of the average person's inability to appreciate the difference between quality and the lack of quality. After all the hearing of every one out there have evolved to have the same capacity as those of the average audiophile.

I think it is a matter of convenience. But if you make great sounding music just as convenient, I am pretty sure that the average person will prefer quality to MP3.

And with all this publicity, the average person is bound to be made aware of it.
What MIGHT make a difference, however is the relative cost of an MQA file as compared to that of an MP3 file. Those who favor their wallet will stick with MP3.

[Mike]

If streaming is the medium of future, then MQA is the format of the future.

[CPP]

If it will work in a smartphone then MQA should do ok, maybe. As we all know the masses of itunes and amazon downloads are the young or mobile people. So if MQA ends up being the same price as their present download cost or streaming cost it will successful or it will go the way of the SACD. I just don't think a few hundred audiophiles will not save a format. You price it right it will work if it sounds better than the current music. I for one have heard MQA played via a MQA certified and updated Brooklynn and to me the DSD of Vivaldi: Recitative and Aria from Cantata RV 679 and Mozart: Violin concerto in D major sounded better than the MQA version both from 2L. So I'm waiting for some classic rock, some blues some jazz to enter the playzone so I can hear it and compare it.

[lallygagger]

If streaming is the medium of future, then MQA is the format of the future.

Excellent point!

Mike, you wrote:
''Let me reiterate. I have heard many MQA demos. Some songs completely blew me away. Others were "meh". I remain very intrigued by the technology and look forward to trying it in my own system.''

Do you happen to know if the ones that blew you away had been recorded using MQA technology or if the ones which were only ''meh'' were MQA'ed after the fact?

[MikeCh]

The CD did. But since then...no.

There is no comparison of the popularity of the CD when it was in the same infant stage as MQA is now. If you were to survey (any size subset) music listeners today of their preference for MQA vs. anything else I'm afraid you'd get about a 0.0001% response and lots of blank stares. Compare that to the birth of the CD. There were only a handful of musical formats of the time with the PRIMARY format (records) being threatened with the CD. At that time, back in the early 1980's, everyone that listened to music had heard about this new thing called a CD that was going to make their records defunct. Can't say the same for MQA with the niche audiophile market let alone the general population.

[lallygagger]

If it will work in a smartphone then MQA should do ok, maybe. As we all know the masses of itunes and amazon downloads are the young or mobile people. So if MQA ends up being the same price as their present download cost or streaming cost it will successful or it will go the way of the SACD. I just don't think a few hundred audiophiles will not save a format. You price it right it will work if it sounds better than the current music. I for one have heard MQA played via a MQA certified and updated Brooklynn and to me the DSD of Vivaldi: Recitative and Aria from Cantata RV 679 and Mozart: Violin concerto in D major sounded better than the MQA version both from 2L. So I'm waiting for some classic rock, some blues some jazz to enter the playzone so I can hear it and compare it.

I want to make sure I am understanding you correctly. You are saying that DSD sounded better than MQA playback using an MQA encoded DAC. Did I get it right?

[lallygagger]

There is no comparison of the popularity of the CD when it was in the same infant stage as MQA is now. If you were to survey (any size subset) music listeners today of their preference for MQA vs. anything else I'm afraid you'd get about a 0.0001% response and lots of blank stares. Compare that to the birth of the CD. There were only a handful of musical formats of the time with the PRIMARY format (records) being threatened with the CD. At that time, back in the early 1980's, everyone that listened to music had heard about this new thing called a CD that was going to make their records defunct. Can't say the same for MQA with the niche audiophile market let alone the general population.

Not yet. My question would be, however, HOW LONG did it take from the first mention of CD to its eventual taking over the recording industry?

[MikeCh]

Not yet. My question would be, however, HOW LONG did it take from the first mention of CD to its eventual taking over the recording industry?

Compare 1983-1986 ability for communication. TV, Radio, Newspapers, Magazines, infant-internet......just a couple years for the CD buzz to take off.

Compare recent years since MQA has been mentioned and the ability for INSTANT communication via every conceivable angle / method / bombardment.

The fact that MQA hasn't gotten off the launch pad given all the communications "help" and avenues that are present compared to the old CD days could be representative of the lack of excitement by the end user for yet another format.

I agree with Chris, if they can get MQA prices down to that of MP3 or iTunes, then by default it could theoretically become the defacto standard without joe-bloe user even realizing it. Perhaps it's possible?

[lallygagger]

Mike, your point that those who love their present DACs can get an inexpensive MQA decoder if their DAC manufacturers don't plan upgrades, is well taken.
My favorite DAC is the AMR DP 777 SE and I do indeed love it.
In the meantime I am VERY curious about what MQA is capable of and I could go ahead and get the Explorer 2 and use it the the AMR DP, using the DP as preamp (and continuing to use the AMR for all PCM playback). What is stopping me is that I have talked to AMR and they are considering offering an upgrade. But they are waiting to see how the market responds to MQA before jumping in. I don't know if I want to spend even a modest amount for the Explorer 2 (250 euro) now and then have to pay for the AMR upgrade later.

Since you are very interested in hearing AMR in your home, can you tell me why you have not availed yourself of the option of getting an inexpensive MQA DAC? Since I am teetering on the brink of doing just this and curiosity might just get the better of me, I am interested in your feed back.

[Mike]

Mike, your point that those who love their present DACs can get an inexpensive MQA decoder if their DAC manufacturers don't plan upgrades, is well taken.
My favorite DAC is the AMR DP 777 SE and I do indeed love it.
In the meantime I am VERY curious about what MQA is capable of and I could go ahead and get the Explorer 2 and use it the the AMR DP, using the DP as preamp (and continuing to use the AMR for all PCM playback). What is stopping me is that I have talked to AMR and they are considering offering an upgrade. But they are waiting to see how the market responds to MQA before jumping in. I don't know if I want to spend even a modest amount for the Explorer 2 (250 euro) now and then have to pay for the AMR upgrade later.

Since you are very interested in hearing AMR in your home, can you tell me why you have not availed yourself of the option of getting an inexpensive MQA DAC? Since I am teetering on the brink of doing just this and curiosity might just get the better of me, I am interested in your feed back.

Well, Berkeley is working on something with respect to MQA and so is Lumin and others. I hope Lampizator doesn't get caught with their pants down with respect to MQA. I have not had any meaningful conversations with Fred or Lukasz, so perhaps they have plans....but if they aren't under an NDA with Meridian for MQA now, then the development phase will be longer.

I am interested in the Mytek DAC and should Tidal release "MASTER MQA", I will be much more inclined to grab something MQA compatible now.

[CPP]

I want to make sure I am understanding you correctly. You are saying that DSD sounded better than MQA playback using an MQA encoded DAC. Did I get it right?

Yes sir. Actually we both agreed it sounded better. But like anything in music production, maybe its the reconfigured MQA recording.

[CPP]

Well, Berkeley is working on something with respect to MQA and so is Lumin and others. I hope Lampizator doesn't get caught with their pants down with respect to MQA. I have not had any meaningful conversations with Fred or Lukasz, so perhaps they have plans....but if they aren't under an NDA with Meridian for MQA now, then the development phase will be longer.

I am interested in the Mytek DAC and should Tidal release "MASTER MQA", I will be much more inclined to grab something MQA compatible now.

Its going to take a Tidal streaming initiative at a decent price with a global catalog content ( not just classical) to make it worthwhile. My audio club friend with the Brooklyn loves classical but about as close to classical I come to is Soundtracks

[Mike]

Brinkman Nyquist MQA DAC:

http://www.mqa.co.uk/customer/news/p...-nyquist-debut

[Mike]

More MQA Partnerships announced:

http://www.mqa.co.uk/customer/news/p...h%20End%20Show

[lallygagger]

Yes sir. Actually we both agreed it sounded better. But like anything in music production, maybe its the reconfigured MQA recording.

Yes, perhaps that they are recordings which have been reconfigured to MQA is the reason.

But your experience in not very heartening to those of us who might be interested in MQA solely for the improvement in sound. I was hoping that Robert Harley was right and that by getting an inexpensive MQA DAC I would hear the big jump in sound quality in those 2L files... something on the order of what I hear when listening to those same tracks in Bluray multichannel playback. Your experience indicates that this might not be the case.

This does not diminish MQA's obvious storage advantage nor its advantage if Tidal and others start streaming MQA, of course.

But still it's a little disappointing to hear about your experience... at least to me, it's disappointing.

[CPP]

Yes, perhaps that they are recordings which have been reconfigured to MQA is the reason.

But your experience in not very heartening to those of us who might be interested in MQA solely for the improvement in sound. I was hoping that Robert Harley was right and that by getting an inexpensive MQA DAC I would hear the big jump in sound quality in those 2L files... something on the order of what I hear when listening to those same tracks in Bluray multichannel playback. Your experience indicates that this might not be the case.

This does not diminish MQA's obvious storage advantage nor its advantage if Tidal and others start streaming MQA, of course.

But still it's a little disappointing to hear about your experience... at least to me, it's disappointing.

Same here. my friend who owns the Mytek Brooklyn didn't have any MQA classic rock or jazz or blues music and I wasn't going to buy any MQA music since I don't have a MQA player so maybe there is a difference in those music genres. I hope so,.

[lallygagger]

Same here. my friend who owns the Mytek Brooklyn didn't have any MQA classic rock or jazz or blues music and I wasn't going to buy any MQA music since I don't have a MQA player so maybe there is a difference in those music genres. I hope so,.

I imagine your friend must be a little disappointed after paying for the MQA upgrade.

[CPP]

I imagine your friend must be a little disappointed after paying for the MQA upgrade.

not at all the upgrade was free. The dac if you read , was equipped with MQA, this new firmware upgrade enabled MQA after the Mytek certification was completed by Meridian. PS: actually the Brooklyn sounds pretty darn good on DSD and PCM.

[radioactive]

Because when you don't actually have something to contribute, just attack the person rather than have something of interest to say. You should run political campaigns. Enough of the personal attacks, if you can't stick to the merits, the technical details or something else then you are nothing more than a troll.

You sound like one angry sourpuss and it is difficult to understand why.
Well, some are hard-wired from birth to see life either half full or half empty. You know who you are.

[radioactive]

Really good point lallygagger. My statement was more intended to draw a comparison to the many articles and case studies of the cellular phone market from the last 5 years. Yes, it's another encoding format, but quite honestly I don't think any one of us is going to make or break its success. If my posts were followed I hope it was obvious that I'm merely not going to be an early adopter. There are too many issues for me and I also went on to state that there are a lot of other people like me who are also not going to be early adopters (in the US, foreign markets are beyond the scope of MY knowledge).

Like you, I agree that the masses are going to make or break this.

There may be some merit in your assessment, radioactive. I know that I certainly have had the ''Oh groan, now I have to spend yet more money?'' experience in the past.
But over all I agree with j2020 where he says, ''Instead of dwelling on the flops, I would rather thank my lucky stars to be able to enjoy the ones that succeed.''

Also, with respect to MQA viability Mike's posts and that of A.S. seem to confirm what I said in a previous post. The success of this technology does not depend on the very small sector of the market that we audiophiles represent. It will not fail because some of us might be tired of the endless pursuit of ''perfect'' sound quality.
The target market is much much vaster than just us. While I know that ultimately anything is possible, I just do not see how this one can fail?

[radioactive]

I don't know about that. I think that MP3 was also a big deal when it came out. The labels were all up in arms because of the file sharing p2p sites like Napster. Consider all the lawsuits that were served to those who were illegally sharing music and all the publicity that surrounded MP3. I'd call that one. Also, if you look back at the original MP3 claims it was that the data lost was inaudible and that the music sounded just as good as the original. One might argue that at it's best, 320Kbps comes pretty close to the original but it's still not the same and the end-result is that their claim was not entirely true.

I'd also consider DVD as a big advance that got a lot of press. It was about improving video too, but a big part of that was Dolby Digital (and Meridian had a hand in the compression part there).

But to your point about "improving sound quality", the last two big things were DSD and 24Bit digital releases and they didn't get anywhere near as much publicity.

The CD did. But since then...no.

[Mike]

You guys must be too young. There was plenty of "perfect sound forever" fanfare. At least equal to MQA given the limited message mediums of the 80's. There was a period when there was no internet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[j2020]

Because when you don't actually have something to contribute, just attack the person rather than have something of interest to say. You should run political campaigns. Enough of the personal attacks, if you can't stick to the merits, the technical details or something else then you are nothing more than a troll.

I guess you have decided to not merit this :-

But over all I agree with j2020 where he says, ''Instead of dwelling on the flops, I would rather thank my lucky stars to be able to enjoy the ones that succeed.'

[j2020]

Having listened to MQA via an MQA-capable DAC in the form of the Merdian 808v6 and shared my experience in this thread, I am pretty excited about it. As with all new tech, time will tell of its eventual success or failure.

I humbly suggest to the particular individual here (we all know who he is) who can make negative pronouncements without yet personally listening to MQA with an MQA-capable DAC, that he can just bring a loaner unit home for audition. This simple experiment would come at practically no cost and would greatly help to increase the level of his discussion - with respect to technical merits vs the completely and totally separate personal listening experience.

[lallygagger]

I guess you have decided to not merit this :-

But over all I agree with j2020 where he says, ''Instead of dwelling on the flops, I would rather thank my lucky stars to be able to enjoy the ones that succeed.'

You are quoting me, J2020. In my opinion you make a some good points. And I agreed with what you said in the statement above because it was a good point and germane to the subject at hand. But I do not agree with the ''angry sourpuss'' comment.
That type of comment is an personal attack which not only offends the person to which it is directed but also breaks down communication by
1. detouring us into the kind of off the subject back and forth that we are engaging in now and
2. by potentially intimidating someone from offering his opinions.

I feel that any poster should be able to express his ideas about the subject without worrying that he will be ridiculed or put down for it. If we don't agree with them we can debate them. But it should not become personal... IMHO.

[j2020]

You are quoting me, J2020. In my opinion you make a some good points. And I agreed with what you said in the statement above because it was a good point and germane to the subject at hand. But I do not agree with the ''angry sourpuss'' comment.
That type of comment is an personal attack which not only offends the person to which it is directed but also breaks down communication by
1. detouring us into the kind of off the subject back and forth that we are engaging in now and
2. by potentially intimidating someone from offering his opinions.

I feel that any poster should be able to express his ideas about the subject without worrying that he will be ridiculed or put down for it. If we don't agree with them we can debate them. But it should not become personal... IMHO.

I personally find it offensive that someone here has appointed himself the forum police by telling me off about sharing my experience with the Meridian 808v6 and MQA(which he missed before his offensive post) when the administrator (Mike) and the OP(Jim) have allowed me some leeway in doing so. After all, Meridian "invented" MQA and the 808v6 is the first Meridian player to be able to decode MQA.
Having chastised me to stick to topic, he then goes on about cellular technology, MP3, DVD, etc, which are all actually fine by me because that's how a discussion wends its way to other things before coming back to the topic at hand. I think others may be interested to hear my experience with the 808v6 and MQA and if someone here does not want or care to, he can simply move on. He just needs to grow up in terms of maintaining cordiality and allowing some digression if it can be called that, in an interesting discussion thread such as this. And if I am offensive to this one particular person but to no one else here, I think that those who dish out the first offense should be able to swallow their own bitter medicine.

[Mike]

Alright, let's all take a deep breath and get back to focusing on the topic at hand. I'm glad we have first hand experiences with MQA and over the next 6-12 months, those doing more listening to MQA and comparisons will grow.

At Axpona I had breakfast with Fremer. He told me that his issue to date with digital has been around how digital fails to get proper space and time right. He was raving about how MQA fixes that.

[j2020]

Alright, let's all take a deep breath and get back to focusing on the topic at hand. I'm glad we have first hand experiences with MQA and over the next 6-12 months, those doing more listening to MQA and comparisons will grow.

At Axpona I had breakfast with Fremer. He told me that his issue to date with digital has been around how digital fails to get proper space and time right. He was raving about how MQA fixes that.

Good to know that an analog diehard like Fremer is raving about MQA.

[lallygagger]

J2020 reports that, when heard through the 808v6 (when it was working properly) MQA was spectacular.
CPP reports that, when heard through an upgraded Mytek Brooklyn DSD files sounded better than MQA.

What to believe???

[Mike]

J2020 reports that, when heard through the 808v6 (when it was working properly) MQA was spectacular.
CPP reports that, when heard through an upgraded Mytek Brooklyn DSD files sounded better than MQA.

What to believe???

Like I've been saying - some albums were amazing, others were "meh". Wait and see. My personal belief is that it will take off. Meridian has more "Warners" to be announced. Getting the labels on board is huge. The naysayers have been pretty quiet about that bombshell yesterday.

[CPP]

Like I've been saying - some albums were amazing, others were "meh". Wait and see. My personal belief is that it will take off. Meridian has more "Warners" to be announced. Getting the labels on board is huge. The naysayers have been pretty quiet about that bombshell yesterday.

Agree its all about the music. I'm just setting and waiting.

[lallygagger]

Like I've been saying - some albums were amazing, others were "meh". Wait and see. My personal belief is that it will take off. Meridian has more "Warners" to be announced. Getting the labels on board is huge. The naysayers have been pretty quiet about that bombshell yesterday.

Warner coming on board is indeed a very significant development. What this means to me personally is that the more this takes off, the more apt AMR will be willing to offer an upgrade for my DAC, which, as I stated, I truly love. That route seem more sensible to me than hurrying to buy the Explorer 2 just to find out what the hoopla is all about.

There is a big price difference between the Mytek and the 808v6. I certainly hope that it won't be necessary to spend megabucks to enjoy fully the MQA experience. I know that the 808v6 is also a cd player (supposedly state of the art) and that would account for a lot of the price difference. But still, There must be a reason why Meridian uses it to demonstrate MQA and not the Explorer 2, which according to Robert Harley will supposedly allow us to hear the MQA experience.
One would think that when demonstrating this technology to potential customers and reviewers Meridianwould at least do so as well with the Explorer 2 in order to show how economically versatile MQA is and how it can reach a much wider audience than just those willing to spend thousands in order to enjoy its benefits.

So why don't they?

[still-one]

lallygagger

There are several reasons why MQA might demo their product using a 808v6 rather than a Explorer 2. Many of the initial demo's were performed in shops that offer Meridian gear. The 808's are CD players, pre-amps, Sooloos endpoints, and DAC's. (That is one reason they are relatively expensive as they can accept analog and other digital sources). The demo I attended had the MQA files on a Meridian/Sooloos MC200 delivering the files via ethernet to the 808v6 and directly via digital out to Meridian's top of the line 8000 series digital speakers. In other words no pre-amp or amps besides those in the speakers are required.

[CPP]

Warner coming on board is indeed a very significant development. What this means to me personally is that the more this takes off, the more apt AMR will be willing to offer an upgrade for my DAC, which, as I stated, I truly love. That route seem more sensible to me than hurrying to buy the Explorer 2 just to find out what the hoopla is all about.

There is a big price difference between the Mytek and the 808v6. I certainly hope that it won't be necessary to spend megabucks to enjoy fully the MQA experience. I know that the 808v6 is also a cd player (supposedly state of the art) and that would account for a lot of the price difference. But still, There must be a reason why Meridian uses it to demonstrate MQA and not the Explorer 2, which according to Robert Harley will supposedly allow us to hear the MQA experience.
One would think that when demonstrating this technology to potential customers and reviewers Meridianwould at least do so as well with the Explorer 2 in order to show how economically versatile MQA is and how it can reach a much wider audience than just those willing to spend thousands in order to enjoy its benefits.

So why don't they?

It might have to do with the audience at these audio shows. The ones that attend are not your $300.00 crowd. Maybe once some of the music that appeals to the young mobile crowd is MQA ready, then maybe a budget MQA DAC will take off and support the technology.

PS:Of course Pioneer Launches World’s First MQA-Ready Portable Digital Audio Player at IFA 2015. But haven't heard any buzz about it.
http://hiresaudiocentral.com/pioneer...r-at-ifa-2015/