Firstwatt F7 mini review

[roncagg]

Got my new Firstwatt F7 from Reno on Thursday. I’ve been intrigued by Nelson Pass’s approach to achieving the best sound quality from the simplest of solid state circuits. With only 20 Watts, speaker matching is important and since my Gallo 3.1s are 88db (albeit with no crossovers) I was concerned. But the sixmoons review reported great pairings with even less efficient examples so I was optimistic that the design (incorporating positive feedback that increases damping factor among other things) could be well suited to my setup.

Long story short - I was right to be optimistic! I had only my Pass DIY B-1 buffer at hand for the first go-around, even so (past 3 on the volume dial) I could hear what the fuss was about - it had great resolution/clarity without being lean or thin sounding, plenty of drive, and the soundstage extended further out front to back and side to side than I am used to (job 225 and Pass Aleph 30 are my points of comparison). Hearing each instrument in its precise location in space allowed the fully formed sound of each to stand out - voices had great character and realism, saxophone timbres were easily distinguished from one another, guitar was rounded yet crisp at the same time (jazz CDs from Scofield, Hancock, Antonio Sanchez were among the first crop I played). Bass was taut, but not as forceful as I like (a shortcoming of the buffer preamp I would soon discover).

I was at the limit of the B-1 volume-wise and was feeling the need to crank it up, so I swapped it for a Manley Shrimp tube preamp that arrived yesterday (thanks audiogon!). The F7 has a low 10kohm input impedance, not a challenge for most SS preamps but more so for tubes, however the Shrimp has a very low output impedance and not too much gain, perfect for what I was after. It was ideal, preserving the wonderful characteristics of the F7 I outlined above, while adding some bass slam and more volume range with perhaps a touch of tube warmth (subtle if there, I may be imagining it because I know it's a tube pre!). Interestingly the soundstage didn't change to my ears with the swap, seems to all come from the amp. The F7 is pretty awesome, kudos Nelson Pass! Does anyone else have one?

[joeinid]

Excellent Ron! Congratulations !

I read another review/preview from Six Moons and they loved it. I'd love to hear one myself.

[Elberoth]

I have one at home right . Didnt have the time to fire it up though. Looking for the right speakers.

[Nikhil]

Ron,

Very curious to know how the F7 is doing now that you have spent a little more time with it.


Regards.

[roncagg]

Suffice it to say that it makes me want to listen to music I haven't heard in ages, to see what I may have missed last time around! Maybe it's my memory, but almost always it sounds better than I remembered. This amp is a keeper. Thanks for asking!

[joeinid]

Congratulations Ron, I'd love to get an F7.

[Randy Myers]

This also sounds intriguing to me. I am so curious if one of these would sound better than the Goldmund Job 225 ...

[joeinid]

Different yes. Better is relative to speakers used. Our LS50 are not very efficient so proceed with caution, you have more juice on tap with the Job. Given more efficient speakers like my Klipsch bookshelf or possibly even my Strads, could be an amazing amp.

This also sounds intriguing to me. I am so curious if one of these would sound better than the Goldmund Job 225 ...

[Mivera Audio]

Congratulations Ron, I'd love to get an F7.

Ha ha Joe is there anything you wouldn't love to get? You need to start an audio gear museum

[joeinid]

Mike, if you only knew. I'm better now, but old habits die hard.

Ha ha Joe is there anything you wouldn't love to get? You need to start an audio gear museum

[roncagg]

Joe is right the speakers are key, I asked Srajan of six moons if he thought the F7 would be a match to my Gallos and he answered "are you a gambling man?"! (you can read the thread in his feedback section) He and co-reviewer David had such good results with such a wide variety of speakers (high and lower efficiency) that I thought it worth a shot and I'm glad I did. David said separately that he didn't think his LS50s brought out the best from the F7 however, at least in his setup. Would love to hear your thoughts if you do take a listen!

[Randy Myers]

I am still considering although I would feel a ton better if I could try the amplifier with my LS50s prior to buying one. I have corresponded with Nelson Pass and he said he thinks he would be able to live with the F7 and LS50s, but he does not listen at high volumes any more (neither do I). He said he has not heard the Job so he really could not give a comparison, but did mention that he knows AS talks very highly about it ....

[Randy Myers]

I have to think a little more about this. I am thinking about doing an in home demo on the amp.

[joeinid]

Just do it Randy. If you don't like it I'll buy it for 50% off your price. Problem solved.

[Randy Myers]

Hehe problem solved .... So I will buy it for $6k and then sell it to you for $3k

[joeinid]

Hehe problem solved .... So In will buy it for $6k and then sell it to you fro $3k

Ok! You have a deal. Thank you so much. Now that was easy.

[Randy Myers]

Pssssst... retail is $3k ..... so easy peasy.... .... have been speaking with Nelson and he contacted the folks at Renohifi. Might take them up on the offer for an in home demo....

[joeinid]

[roncagg]

Dick Olsher sure likes this amp, his review is in the current edition of The Absolute Sound, check it out. Mark@Reno is great to deal with, I am sure he'll fix you up.

[Randy Myers]

I read the review. He seem to very much like the amplifier. I still have many questions.

His review was as much about technical as about the listening experience. I came away thinking that he likes the amp but I also believe he was not blown away. The final line was I think the most important because throughout the article he did a lot of comparisons to previous models, which is all fine and good; but I did not get the feeling that he did much in comparisons to other amplifiers in this price level. "Simply put: one of the best low-power amps money can buy." But, how does it compare against higher powered amplifiers in this price level?

BTW- I am waiting to hear back from Mark to my e-mail reply to his where I had a few questions.

[Tom Z]

Just a question, has anyone got to the 2nd watt of those Firstwatt amps? And if so, how was the experience?

[roncagg]

Ha! There is an internal jumper you can remove to release the other watts, not for the faint-hearted!

Randy, Dick Olsher is a tube lover so his comparison to the F3 was meaningful in that I think it was his preferred SS amp with tube like qualities. I agree the review was light on details of sound characteristics (compared to sixmoons review for sure!). FYI I find that calling Mark at Reno gets better results than emailing.

[Randy Myers]

Well Mark believes that the First Watt will be a little light for my LS50s which are 85 db sensitivity. He suggested the Pass amplifier, XA-30.5 I think. But that is a bit higher price than I would be looking for right now. I might try calling him anyway. He also said they do not do trades on any amplifiers below the $6k mark... therefore I am not sure. The Pass sounds pretty good but will it really sound better than the Goldmund?

[joeinid]

Randy,

Having owned almost everything, of course , I feel the KEF LS50 benefit more with an amp like the JOB as opposed to the Pass anything except maybe one of their Class AB type amps. The only other amp type I'd recommend for the LS50 is a moderately powerful tube amp, but I don't feel you want to go down that path. I feel those KEF, like Harbeth and similar benefit from a more open, lighter, airy 3D amp.

[Randy Myers]

Thank you for the input Joe. That means a lot! The up keep on a tube amp makes me just a wee bit cautious... Also, anything decent seem to have too high a price, ARC, McIntosh, etc.

Knowing what I like in sound, the "British" sound, open, vocals, tight bass, don't care about rattling the walls, sound stage and imaging... KEF sound ... and knowing that I have built from scratch in past few months so on fairly limited budget, is there any other amp you might recommend that would give me an even more wow factor than the Goldmund Job, or is this really the best bet at this point?

[Jack]

The Nord's like Joe has. Around $2000 for the stereo version. Another option for around the same price is the Odyssey Kismet.

[Randy Myers]

The Nord are class D amp, right? How would they compare to something like the Wyred 4 Sound Class D amps? W4S has their new Statement amps coming out within a couple months.

Where do you get the Nord amps? The sight I found seemed like a European site.

[Anatta]

For $3k I'd try the Benchmark AHB2 100W amp. You can order directly from Benchmark with their 30 day trial period.

[Jack]

Right they are based on the Hypex NC500 as opposed to the 3rd Gen ICE modules used in the W4S amps. I have both in house right now plus the Nuprime ST-10 which uses Nuforce/Nuprime's on version of Class D. I forgot to mention the Nuprime before, but is a great little amp and you can try it for 30 days from all of their regular dealers plus Audio Advisor. You just pay the shipping back if you don't like it. John Casler, who is one of EJ's dealers carries Nuprime and W4S and he is not too far from you.

The Nord amps are only available direct from the UK.

You might want to ask EJ or Tony what modules they are going to use in the Statement amp I couldn't find any info. Don't know if it will sound much different than the mAMPS or the ST series. I think the Statement series items are going to be in a higher price bracket looking at the casework.

[Randy Myers]

Tony told me that the Statement is going to be greatly improved. I did not know enough to ask him what modules are going to be used. We were also talking about SST, which I believe they also own.

"We played the beta Statement and the Son at last years RMAF and have to say, the Statement was a huge eyebrow raiser. Everyone who heard it loved it (we got many nods in magazines and a Best of Show in a popular forum. "

We are going to probably do a amplifier shoot out when the Statement is available. Might be fun, the Son of Ampzilla II, the Statement and the Goldmund. I think it will be a blast!

[Mivera Audio]

You'll be hard pressed to find better class D at any price than the Nords with the new SIL 994 based input buffer. If you're looking for something neck and neck, checkout the Bel Canto Black amp.

[Randy Myers]

Hmmm.... me thinks, a slightly different price point....

[joeinid]

Randy,

I used the Nord One Up amps on the LS50 for 3 weeks straight to break them in with the Sparkos op amps. It was wonderful, especially for my taste.

I suspect the new op amp, 994, that Mike recommends might be even better. The Nords delivered from the UK might be $2200-2300 or a bit more depending on the new pricing.

[Jack]

The stereo version which is two boards and power supplies in one box is about $250 less. Plus just one power cord to worry about, which works better in some peoples systems especially if all of your cables are based around that placement. The Statement like the Bel Canto is also meant to be a different price point. Randy, the only way to know which flavor of Class D you like is to listen to them. While that is possible with the W4S and Nuprime, don't think that is the case with the NCORE amps as there are only a few OEM's around.

[Randy Myers]

Joe, could you compare the Nord versus the Job because I know you have owned both.

[Jack]

Randy

Might want to take a look at this. Great amp at a great price and just down the road from you in Thousand Oaks. You can read the reviews at TAS and others.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=141762.0

Randy, I've owned the Job for over 2 years and it is a really good amp with the right speaker, load wise. It works great with some of the speakers I have or have had and not so well with others. The most important thing I could find that caused it was the speakers impedance curve.

[Randy Myers]

Hey jack,

Thanks for the suggestion. My friend Chops, who came over here from another forum had one of the Odyssey Kismet amplifiers with his Sonus Faber speakers. He traded amps with his brother as a test and they ended up staying with the trade. His brother liked the Odyssey more. If I recall what Chops said, his brother is a hard rocker and liked the power of the amp. Chops likes the sound quality of the amp he got from his brother. Better match with his speakers, better image etc. That amp that he keep and is still using is a Wyred 4 Sound ST-250.

Maybe Chops will read this thread and weigh in.

[Jack]

Randy

The Odyssey amps are slightly to the warm side of neutral as are the SF's so Chops may have thought it too much of a good thing. My mAMPS are a generation after the ST-250 and they are more neutral so maybe a better match for SF. Tommy and Woody both have Kismet amps and use them with speakers from Vapor and Philharmonic. Might want to see if EJ will let you listen to an ST-500 Mk II. Didn't you say that they were using KEF speakers at the shop. The warmer nature of the Odyssey or the Nord/Sparkos combo might be a better fit for the KEF's. All depends on the "sound" you are looking for. Maybe the guy in Thousand Oaks will let you listen if you want to drive down.

[Randy Myers]

Yea, EJ and crew like to demo their products with KEFs and hey recently bought a pair of Reference 3s to use and demos and show. Tony mentioned doing an amp shoot out. Maybe I can get them to use the Ref 3s ....

[Jack]

If similar voicing to the LS-50 it would be helpful.

[Randy Myers]

They both use the Uni-Q driver array. Completely different level of course , but I would image that they are similar voicing characteristics ...