Nord One Up Ncore NC500 amps, Class D ready for prime time .....

[joeinid]

I thought I also read that they were unique to the Mola Mola amps and not available to OEM mfgs.

The modules in the Mola Mola Kaluga are NC1200's. Different and far more expensive modules.

[Jack]

Well you have these, but 10k a pair.

https://www.tweekgeek.com/acoustic-imagery-atsah/

[MikeCh]

Devg,

A few quick notes about the Nords with the Sparkos op amps...

The amps are dead quiet. The sound is smooth with a tremendous bottom end. There's a warmth to the sound with a reach out and touch you presentation. The music flows easily into the room and vocals are right there, front and center.

The majority of my listening is late at night. The music can be clearly heard even at whisper levels and I don't get the feeling something is missing.

I have to admit that as the hours roll up, I actually am getting more 3D to the sound. Depth of sound stage is increasing and is better than typical solid state but not like good tube amps. Let's face it, tubes can do some unique things, but these Nords do a lot of things tubes can't, touché.

Very accurate assessment that matches my experience too Joe. Though I'm listening with the SI994 op amps right now, I'm excited to install the Sparkos op amps that I received today. Should be interesting to compare now that my NORD pair are mostly broken in. The amps have been running 24/7 for right at three weeks now with music signal being passed thru them at a minimum of 14 hours a day with some days, 18 hours.

I also recently built, conditioned and installed a pair of 1.0M 11ga Allegro power cables for the NORDS to replace the stock cheapy power cords. Hoping to do some listening this evening to see what they're bringing to the table.

[joeinid]

Excellent Mike. My new boards and 994's could be home Mon. or Tue. There was an address mix up and I am waiting for the tracking to update properly. I am curious to go the other way and see what that gives me.

[Devg]

Hmmmm, I did have a Pass X250 many moons ago. I don't remember its sonic signature so much anymore but do remember enjoying the amp. I'd most likely take Pass Class A above most amps but then heat and weight come into play in the equation, let alone price.

The new boards and op amps could change the outcome. I don't know. Plus personal preference would trump all else.

Not so much on the weight but the heat generation from the Pass amps is one of the driving factor to get a cool running amp, like the Nords. I had Symphonic Lines class A/B monoblocks in the past. While they ran cool but the Pass sounded better in my setup.

[KLH007]

I thought I also read that they were unique to the Mola Mola amps and not available to OEM mfgs.

Merrill's Veritas monos use the NC1200 modules, Acoustic Imagery Atsah as mentioned, Theta Prometheus, Mola Mola, and Merrill's new amp, Taranis uses the NC500 modules @ $2500.

[Jack]

The Taranis has gotten a couple of favorable reviews, but to me it is certainly far from an attractive component especially compared to his other amps.

[audio.bill]

I thought I also read that they were unique to the Mola Mola amps and not available to OEM mfgs.

Joe is correct as usual! I'm not sure if it's the power supply boards, output modules or both but there are some proprietary circuit differences between the Mola Mola amps and the versions of the 1200 boards that other manufacturers have access to.

[tane0019]

Had communicate with John Young from Acoustic Imagery between their NC1200 amp vs Mola Mola and below quoted were part of the corespondent.

Yes, the Mola Mola amps use essentially the same NC1200 Hypex modules and SMPS as we use but the amps are modified versions and the Mola Mola's use a discrete input buffer.
The sound signature is very similar and I would say that the 'standard' NC1200 modules are very close sonically to the Mola Mola.

I suspect they use the same "discrete input buffer" design as the NC400 ?

[MikeCh]

Upgrading power cables is not a bad idea with these amps. They respond well to the addition by sharpening up the sound stage and adding even more life to the music they produce. Highly recommended.

I installed the Sparkos op amps today to replace the SI994's for a while. Really loving what I'm hearing so far. They are a touch warmer with a little larger bottom end and a nicely sweet midrange. Top end detail does not suffer with the Sparkos installed.. I do notice that the SI994 (at this stage with the Sparkos anyway) is a little tighter in the mid-bass where the Sparkos are a bit more round. The Sparkos may be a bit rounder, but not sloppy in any fashion. We'll see how the Sparkos settles in after a few more days...

[joeinid]

Thank you for the update Mike.

Now I am really curious to hear the the 994's and new boards. I do love the warmer/rounder Sparkos so we'll see how the other setup sounds to my ears.

[joeinid]

Had communicate with John Young from Acoustic Imagery between their NC1200 amp vs Mola Mola and below quoted were part of the corespondent.



I suspect they use the same "discrete input buffer" design as the NC400 ?

I'd have to believe the difference is not night and day, but would be more apparent over time.

Thanks for the input.

[Jack]

Joe

I would suspect you might like the Sparkos better with the JBL, Klipsch and Kef and the 994's with the Strads.

[joeinid]

I think it could possibly be Sparkos all the way for me, but I will let the new parts burn in before saying for sure.

Joe

I would suspect you might like the Sparkos better with the JBL, Klipsch and Kef and the 994's with the Strads.

[Jack]

Anything is possible as the Sparkos were really good with the KO's. I thought they might be a little much though with the Spatials, but that could change with the new boards. I am going to order with the 994s and then order the Sparko Op Amps direct like Mike. Going to wait till the first of the month and let you and Mike go through both with the new boards and see what Marty has to say. In the mean time the Nuprime keeps getting better especially after adding the Neotech power cord Mike/Blizz was talking about.

[joeinid]

I've been looking around, can I buy finished Neotech AC cords or do I have to make them myself?

[Jack]

I'll send you the link by pm. With the discount and the Canadian exchange rate they come out to about $160 each for a meter. Their shop is down the road from Paul in GTA. I think he knows the owner of Audio Sensibility who is selling them. All of their OCC cables are really good.

[MikeCh]

From a text message I wrote to Joe earlier:

BTW, I think all Sparkos (Sparkos regulators included in the new REVC board plus Sparkos op amp) is the way to go. Unless my amp's suddenly made another milestone change at the same time I changed in the new Sparkos op amps, I believe they sound best this way. Only way to tell will be to swap back in 994 at some point. Perhaps the power cords are helping more than anticipated or the amps themselves are just getting further burned in regardless of op amp but today's listening with the Sparkos op amps installed is the nicest to me yet.

[joeinid]

Mike,

I started with the Sparkos from day one but I have the original boards. I hope to have the new input boards and 994's, fingers crossed tomorrow or Tuesday at the latest. I can't wait to try the new boards first, then 994 op amps. I love what the Sparkos op amps sound like. Full, rounded, slightly warm, bassy and very nice. For the roughly $2200 delivered, a downright bargain. I know Class D gets a bad rap, but I don't think these are typical.

ps. I have no doubt that YOUR power cords are making a difference too

[Devg]

Slightly out of topic but anyone heard the PS Audio BHK amp ? Though its in a totally different price range, I wonder how it compares with other amps, especially the Hypex nc500 ones ? I remember I read somewhere, Paul McGowan tried to make the amp using nc1200 modules initially but it didn't satisfy the sound.

[tane0019]

Is PS audio power amp even Class D ?
Most likely class AB taking their super big size casing into consideration.
Seem that they make use of Tube as their input buffer.

[audio.bill]

EH is correct, the PS Audio BHK amps are tube input with Class A/B output stages.

[Devg]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. What I meant was PS audio tried making the amp with nc1200 modules and later changed it to BHK's mosfet design with tube input stage. Not sure if it was because of the sound or something else that forced Paul to change the technology.

[audio.bill]

Devg - You are correct that Paul initially planned on using an Ncore Class D design but after testing determined that it failed to meet his desired sound quality goals. He then decided to hire Bascom King to design the hybrid BHK amps which they are now selling.

[Devg]

audio.bill, does it mean the the BHK sounds better than the NC1200 based product line up ? Has anybody heard both of them and compared ?

[audio.bill]

Paul McGowan of PS Audio certainly thinks so! I haven't heard either the BHK or NC1200 amps in a familiar system to really make a fair judgement, but I've heard both several times at shows and while they each had some positive attributes neither favorably impressed me enough to warrant further investigation. Just one man's subjective opinion, take it for what it's worth.

[MikeCh]

A neighbor friend of mine has the PS Audio BHK250. It recently replaced a McIntosh MC302 (I think it was the MC302 with the pair of monster blue meters) to drive his Focal 1038Be loudspeakers. He much prefers the PS Audio amp (I do too) as it has more control over the bottom end and also lets the presence range flow more freely. With the MC302 I thought his system had a bit of a midrange-hole but not anymore with the BHK250. It sounds great top to bottom with the BHK250 and is a very effortless presentation with what appears to be ample drive and dynamics. It also provides a dead silent background that the music jumps out from.

I've heard the Merrill Veritas mono amps (NC1200) and liked them too, but not in a familiar system as they were at RMAF. Now that I have the NC500 NORD's it will be interesting to see what my neighbor friend thinks of them when he comes by later this week to give a listen.

[Devg]

A neighbor friend of mine has the PS Audio BHK250. It recently replaced a McIntosh MC302 (I think it was the MC302 with the pair of monster blue meters) to drive his Focal 1038Be loudspeakers. He much prefers the PS Audio amp (I do too) as it has more control over the bottom end and also lets the presence range flow more freely. With the MC302 I thought his system had a bit of a midrange-hole but not anymore with the BHK250. It sounds great top to bottom with the BHK250 and is a very effortless presentation with what appears to be ample drive and dynamics. It also provides a dead silent background that the music jumps out from.

I've heard the Merrill Veritas mono amps (NC1200) and liked them too, but not in a familiar system as they were at RMAF. Now that I have the NC500 NORD's it will be interesting to see what my neighbor friend thinks of them when he comes by later this week to give a listen.

Great info Mike. I am very interested to hear what you and your friend has to say about the Nords. Please keep up updated :-)

[MikeCh]

One thing about the BHK250....Pete was concerned that in his roll out vertical rack (he has a nice recess where the rack rolls back into) where the amp is seated that too much heat was being generated by the BHK250 after hours of use. He purchased one of those infrared thermometers and found that with the somewhat restricted/closed in shelf space that houses the amp, he was seeing regular temps close to 135F at the heat sinks. I let him borrow a pair of 12V DC muffin-fans that I wired up using a 9V wall wart (to lower their rotation speed and thus, noise) and he placed them on the shelf on each rear side of the amp. Moving just 18-20cfm of air on each side reduced his temps to 115F or so.

His ultimate plan is to relocate his gear into a completely open rack at some point to limit the heat generated and to do away with the fans altogether.

[nc42acc]

Colin the rev. c modules arrived yesterday so I will get those installed and let them burn in for a few days and hopefully get a quick listen this weekend.

[joeinid]

Marty,

My 994 op amps and new boards arrived yesterday am. I was able to swap everything out before work and listened for a little while. After work I listened more and now all I have to say is holy cr@p these are great. More lit up from within, feels like more air and 3D. One thing I love is that while I get that more open and slightly lighter feel, vocals are outstanding. Zero bite and totally non aggressive with more clarity. I normally prefer a warm/sweeter presentation and I that is why I like the Sparkos op amps. These 994's give me a clearer window with a smaller than the Sparkos touch of warmth, but tremendously better vocals to my ear. This is all with the Ayre KX-5/20 preamp on the JBL's. It will be interesting to try the Sparkos on the new input buffers.

Colin,

Thank you so much for getting these in my hands so quickly and making these amps even better.

[Randy Myers]

Joe, do these have to break in again, or by just replacing the op amps the entire package is still fairly much broken in. In other words are these going to continue improving for you over the next 300-500 hours?

[joeinid]

Randy,

Out of the box I think they were a little rough. When I got home 12+ hours later, so much better. I have to believe that "some" break in is necessary. I don't feel another 300-500 is necessary. I am sure the amplifying modules are the critical part of the break in. This is my thought and if it gets better from here, I'll be delighted.

[MikeCh]

It will be interesting to try the Sparkos on the new input buffers.

I think this config is my new favorite! = Sparkos Op amps + new RevC boards (that have the Sparkos V-regs). Just a hair less air and 3D than the 994's yet retains all the Sparkos op amp warmth/sweetness. Dynamics in spades with the Sparkos too!


Mike

[joeinid]

Wow!

I think this config is my new favorite! = Sparkos Op amps + new RevC boards (that have the Sparkos V-regs). Just a hair less air and 3D than the 994's yet retains all the Sparkos op amp warmth/sweetness. Dynamics in spades with the Sparkos too!


Mike

[boggit]

Good news guys.
When we first got the 994's and the new Rev C boards we initially tested with the 994's and I though wow these things are brilliant so much more sound stage.
It was not till later that we tried the Sparkos and Burson there was improvement but still think the the 994's are far better. So its great to get some other opinions and real world feedback. So yes the change to the more expensive Sparkos Voltage regulators has really paid off evidently they have a much better transient response than the Hypex ones. One other thing I noticed is the system hung on to dynamics at far lower volumes also the high volume organisation was better to. Cheers guys.

[joeinid]

Thanks again Colin, keep up the great work.

[tane0019]

You guys make me want to order a pair already


MUST resist the DARK SIDE

[joeinid]

I could think of worse things

These really are more amazing now.

You guys make me want to order a pair already


MUST resist the DARK SIDE

[PeteG]

Getting really close to ordering the stereo One UP, I'll get the 994 opamps when I do. I have Burson V4, V5 and Sparkos opamps that I used for dacs.

[joeinid]

Congratulations Pete. Mine are breaking in nicely.

[Jack]

Anything changed Joe or just more of the same? Think tubes + Nord.

[joeinid]

Hi Jack,

Yes, I actually think that would be the best of both worlds. I'm still looking around but it might be another week or two.

Mike/Blizz recommends a couple weeks more for break in with the new parts. I'm not really listening critically right now but they really are sounding great. After next week, I'll swap the Sparkos in and see if I agree with Mikech.


I do have to say that there's an undeniable clarity without any harshness whatsoever. It's pretty cool to hear.

One more thing, the C52 with my Nords is a wonderful match. I think the C52 is a little sweeter than my Ayre. Different flavors of great.


Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

[colmon]

I have had the Nords for sometime now originally with the Hyper boards and then with the rev b boards with Bursons and Sparkos. My favourite sound was with the Bursons. I found the Sparkos a bit dull.
But just got thr rev. C boards with Sonic Imagery op amps and no doubt about it they are the best.
Instruments sound clearer and more real particularly violins which is always my yardstick.

[joeinid]

Welcome to the forum colmon, thank you for joining.

[joeinid]

I agree with your thoughts on the 994's and new buffers. I am surprised at how great they sound. I still have to try the Sparkos on the new buffer boards.

[nc42acc]

Finally had time to switch in the rev. C boards this morning. Letting them cook and will listen periodically through the week. Heading to Newport Thursday. Colin message me the address to ship back the rev. B boards please.

[joeinid]

Marty,

Looking forward to your thoughts. I put my Sparkos back in yesterday from the 994's. I am using the new buffer boards. I think Mikech might be right, I think I still prefer the Sparkos but it sounds better with the new boards. So, I am happy. More to come......

Finally had time to switch in the rev. C boards this morning. Letting them cook and will listen periodically through the week. Heading to Newport Thursday. Colin message me the address to ship back the rev. B boards please.

[nc42acc]

Initial listening after a few hours burning in are very positive. Midrange is back into perspective with loads of detail and delineation. Bass is a little more punchier and dynamic (no subs used). Great image placement and soundstage but still lacking the palpability of my hybrid monos but if my memory serves me with the nc400 this improves dramatically with burn in time. Thinking since the only new addition is the rev. C boards the burn in should be substantially sooner. Will touch base tonight.

Marty,

Looking forward to your thoughts. I put my Sparkos back in yesterday from the 994's. I am using the new buffer boards. I think Mikech might be right, I think I still prefer the Sparkos but it sounds better with the new boards. So, I am happy. More to come......

[colmon]

Marty,

Looking forward to your thoughts. I put my Sparkos back in yesterday from the 994's. I am using the new buffer boards. I think Mikech might be right, I think I still prefer the Sparkos but it sounds better with the new boards. So, I am happy. More to come......

How would you describe the difference between the Sparkos and the Sonic Imagerys