Nord One Up Ncore NC500 amps, Class D ready for prime time .....

[Mivera Audio]

So true.

I am looking forward to it. Once everything settles down, I'll jump in and try it. I leave mine on 24x7 and mute when I am not listening. It's always ready to go and sounds great. Music is actively playing 10-16 hours a day, depending on schedule.

I do the same thing. Another great thing about these class D amps with SMPS's is they just use tiny caps that have a very long life. They also run so cool that cap life is much much longer than hotter running amps. So no problem just leaving them on around the clock for years. I had my NC400's on around the clock for almost 4 years!. I finally decided to sell them and due to the drop in the Canadian dollar, I broke even with what I paid for them 4 years earlier! Can't complain

[Narayan]

Those spanish atm amps look really sexy, what remains to be seen is if they will implement the new board and Sonic Imagery 994´s Mike speaks so highly about, is there any way to trace their development?

[Mivera Audio]

Those spanish atm amps look really sexy, what remains to be seen is if they will implement the new board and Sonic Imagery 994´s Mike speaks so highly about, is there any way to trace their development?

Yes they do look very nice.



I told him that if he wants to be taken seriously, he better provide measurement results. I also told him to test the Sonic Imagery 994. He said he would to both. So we will see what happens. Since you're also in Spain, why don't you contact him direct? Maybe you can be the 1st client of his new unit once ready?

[Dizzie]

Nayaran,

As the new kid initiation I second Mike's recommendation that you go first since you are in the neighborhood.

The inside of those amps is very attractive as well.

[Mivera Audio]

Nayaran,

As the new kid initiation I second Mike's recommendation that you go first since you are in the neighborhood.

The inside of those amps is very attractive as well.

If he builds the input buffers right, provides measured data, uses that beautiful case, and sells the amps for only 1995 Euro's, good luck finding anyone who can compete with that. Those cases are the same level of build quality of the $29500 Ayre MX-R twenty's. They will probably sound better as well.

[joeinid]

[Narayan]

Nayaran,

As the new kid initiation I second Mike's recommendation that you go first since you are in the neighborhood.

The inside of those amps is very attractive as well.

Believe me Dizzie I would be tempted if resources were available, just thinking about a McIntosh C52 partnered with those beauties raises my testosterone enough to consider cheating on my black face Marantz 2285b.

[joeinid]

Believe me Dizzie I would be tempted if resources were available, just thinking about a McIntosh C52 partnered with those beauties raises my testosterone enough to consider cheating on my black face Marantz 2285b.

Trust me, the C52 and Nord amps is a great combination. I love it.

[Mivera Audio]

Believe me Dizzie I would be tempted if resources were available, just thinking about a McIntosh C52 partnered with those beauties raises my testosterone enough to consider cheating on my black face Marantz 2285b.

I like his case so much that I may even talk to him about sending me some to offer on my website once he has them ready. I will just build them with my input board that is optimized to provide ultra clean power to the NC-500 modules, and use the discrete, modular class A gain stage/servo boards in the Phison PD2 for the input buffer on the amps. You won't find a better input buffer for the NC-500's than this beautiful setup:

[joeinid]

I like that idea Mike

I like his case so much that I may even talk to him about sending me some to offer on my website once he has them ready. I will just build them with my input board that is optimized to provide ultra clean power to the NC-500 modules, and use the discrete, modular class A gain stage/servo boards in the Phison PD2 for the input buffer on the amps. You won't find a better input buffer for the NC-500's than this beautiful setup:

[Mivera Audio]

I like that idea Mike

It won't be a replacement for the Nord's or the ATM's though. As it would be optimized for use specifically with the PD2. It will just be another amp option for PD2 buyers as the Phison A2.120 (matching amp for the PD2) will be $10500. May be out of reach for some.

[joeinid]

Ah, thank you for the clarification.

It won't be a replacement for the Nord's or the ATM's though. As it would be optimized for use specifically with the PD2. It will just be another amp option for PD2 buyers as the Phison A2.120 (matching amp for the PD2) will be $10500. May be out of reach for some.

[Dizzie]

Are the heat sinks just for show?

ATM Spanish ClaseD_detalle-negro41-1030x790.jpg

[Mivera Audio]

Are the heat sinks just for show?

He says it comes in 5 color's. He just anodizes them so I can imagine they could come in any color if you asked. The heat sinks may help dissipate a bit of heat from the chassis, but the whole chassis is a heatsink for the NC-500's. They run extremely cool and only need an aluminum surface for a heatsink. That's not the final case design. It will be almost the same, but the internals will be milled different for the different supplies and amp modules. You can see that case has a spot milled out for a toroidal transformer. He also said he will offer a dual mono version with 2 supplies, and a stereo version with 1 supply. 1 supply is still enough for 600w per channel into 4 ohms. 2 supplies gives 700W per channel and more headroom. Depending on application 1 supply may be enough for many. I have compared using both 1 and 2 supplies in my system. When listening to the DxD version of the Sheffield drum and track disk at 115dB with my system, it definitely feels more powerful with 2 supplies.

More examples of his beautiful case work:

[MikeCh]

Wow, those ATM's look exceptional. Mike, do you really think they will be able to keep them at the 2k EUR +/- mark if/when they incorporate the new circuit / buffers? Is the 2k EUR for a stereo chassis or two mono chassis design?

Either the Nord OneUp with new buffer and or these ATM with new buffer seem right up my alley!....now to wait I guess.

Joe, what if any drawbacks have you found with your Nord's now that you've had some more hours on them? Are you finding that any of the classic Class-D shortcomings have been present in your listening?

[joeinid]

Mike,

The only negative, if you can call it that (and I actually prefer it this way), is that the top end is ever so slightly reserved. I don't know if that is considered dark, but I personally do not find it that way. I don't mean that in a negative way, but some may prefer a touch more sparkle. NOT for me. I love the way they are now, but want to "play" with the different op amps and "roll" them for fun. I am very sensitive to treble and the main reason I could not take the TAD CR-1's that I owned. They were too hot for me. I think the Nords would have been perfect on the TAD's. They sound great on my Strads, LS50 and especially all my Klipsch speakers.

Check for a pm soon.

[Mivera Audio]

Wow, those ATM's look exceptional. Mike, do you really think they will be able to keep them at the 2k EUR +/- mark if/when they incorporate the new circuit / buffers? Is the 2k EUR for a stereo chassis or two mono chassis design?

Either the Nord OneUp with new buffer and or these ATM with new buffer seem right up my alley!....now to wait I guess.

Joe, what if any drawbacks have you found with your Nord's now that you've had some more hours on them? Are you finding that any of the classic Class-D shortcomings have been present in your listening?

He say's 1995 Euro's. We will see. Hypex made Colin at Nord bump up his price because the competition was whining to them already. So I can just imagine the complaints after this comes out

Looks like he will just have a Stereo dual mono, and Stereo With a single supply. But I can imagine you can bridge the dual mono's if you wanted a 1400W per channel set of monsters

Edit: Looks to me like the 1995 Euro is with a single supply, and likely the standard LM 4562 buffer board. But that price includes the 20% VAT that's not required if shipped to North America, as well as shipping to European countries:

MAIN BENEFITS OF THIS MODEL:

• Very low distortion throughout the range of power and frequency.
• Very low output impedance.
• Very low noise.
• neutral and transparent reproduction.
• differential input buffer LM4562 audio (or Sparkoslab Burson option)
• Switching power supply of 1.200W
• High current capacity (up to 28A).
• NCORE technology.
• Error protection system controlled by microprocessor.
• Monobloc aluminum chassis thermally optimized anti vibration.
• PVP 1.995,00 € VAT and transport included peninsula.

[Mivera Audio]

Mike,

The only negative, if you can call it that (and I actually prefer it this way), is that the top end is ever so slightly reserved. I don't know if that is considered dark, but I personally do not find it that way. I don't mean that in a negative way, but some may prefer a touch more sparkle. NOT for me. I love the way they are now, but want to "play" with the different op amps and "roll" them for fun. I am very sensitive to treble and the main reason I could not take the TAD CR-1's that I owned. They were too hot for me. I think the Nords would have been perfect on the TAD's. They sound great on my Strads, LS50 and especially all my Klipsch speakers.

Check for a pm soon.

That reserved top end is just part of the sound signature of the Sparko. Colin updated his thread today on Diyaudio.

"OK I have the required parts on order, should arrive today and will modify the board as per Sonic Imagery's direction. I will then evaluate the result and make sure the new mods work with the Burson and Sparkos.
My findings are similar to Bavmike in the Sonic Imagery 994 does indeed sound very good a big thanks to him for his hard work in bringing this to our attention. 3D sound stage in particular is improved. I also had some other feedback from folks who have used the Op Amp who also agree. It is rather fragile in its build great care is required when changing Op Amps.
Longer term we will produce a new board either to accommodate these changes or a new design. Appreciate everybody's input so far as with out the interest there would be no point in doing all this.
I'm trying to keep my head above water while no Hypex stock building Speakers."

[joeinid]

Thank you for the update Mike.

[MikeCh]

Mike,

I appreciate you filling in the gaps for me.

So, further reading on the Nord site, I see the description of Sparkos Labs SS3602 vs Burson Supreme Sound V5 op amps. Dang, more options.

I listen to a ton of Classical music but also mix in other genres to, so wonder which one would be a better fit for me? Has anyone done a comparo between the Sparkos Labs SS3602 and Burson Supreme Sound V5 they might share?

[Mivera Audio]

Thank you for the update Mike.

No problem!

[Mivera Audio]

Mike,

I appreciate you filling in the gaps for me.

So, further reading on the Nord site, I see the description of Sparkos Labs SS3602 vs Burson Supreme Sound V5 op amps. Dang, more options.

I listen to a ton of Classical music but also mix in other genres to, so wonder which one would be a better fit for me? Has anyone done a comparo between the Sparkos Labs SS3602 and Burson Supreme Sound V5 they might share?

If you read the feedback on the Nord page you will see some impressions. At the end of the day your complete system "synergy" is what will determine what's best for you. That combined with personal taste. But a basic comparison is the Sparko's are smoother and more laid back, and the Burson's have more sparkle and energy to them. However my take is the Sonic Imagery's beat both in all departments and I think they have the perfect balance for most systems. They are also the best measuring, and have by far the highest current drive capability. So they are actually the best unit's all around, as long as the input board is properly engineered. Nobody offers a comprehensive spec sheet like they do.

http://www.sonicimagerylabs.com/prod..._Datasheet.pdf

[nc42acc]

I will say the treble on my Hypex NC400 mono amps is as neutral as I could ask for.

[joeinid]

Class D has come a long way. Having the ability to "roll" op amps on my Nord amps is a home run.

[MikeCh]

Class D has come a long way. Having the ability to "roll" op amps on my Nord amps is a home run.

Duh.....rather than futz around trying to pick an op amp combo to "live with" I can choose both types from Nord and roll both to find out. Very nice!

[Mivera Audio]

Duh.....rather than futz around trying to pick an op amp combo to "live with" I can choose both types from Nord and roll both to find out. Very nice!

There's actually probably at least 20 opamp types that can be used if you really wanted to get adventurous. Plus there's always new and better ones coming out from several different manufacturers. Some are as cheap as $1 a piece. So rather than swap amps all the time, swap opamps instead. If you have a collection of 20 sets of opamps, it's exactly the same as having 20 different amps. The opamps are amps. They are just little "preamps" for the main amps. Since the NC-500 output stage amp is so amazingly transparent, all you hear is the opamp.

Here's an example from 3Lviz from Diyaudio's impressions on a few different opamps tested in the Nord 1 up buffer:


"Here is my notes on LM4562 and Burson V5.

Burson V5
Overall it is quite good, but i am not sure if it is the best fit for the nCore input buffer. There seems to be a lot of upper bass but something is missing in the low freqs. The mids are very detailed and powerful tho. Especially drums are great. They seem to have extra punch. Highs are ok too. But i think the sound stage is lacking spatial information is it not especially wide and its kinda "messy" overall. Maybe this is because all the little details sounds as separate components but they dont integrate so well into one working art piece. This opamp is missing the fun in this application compared to some less expensive options.

LM4562
Well balanced sound. But, after listening to all these options it is maybe little dull. While listening to this opamp i constantly want to change the opamp, even tho there seems to be no apparent reason . However, if i had to demo for instance the capabilities of my speaker, this opamp would would be a very good candidate, since there seems to be no apparent downsides either that needed to explain to my guest ("its not the speaker that have this kind of sound, but the opamp in the amp's input buffer"). It produces quite wide sound stage, good spatial information. Jack of all trades, but master of none.

and OPA2132 notes too:

OPA2132P
Magical mids and highs with wide sound stage! The sound stage is so wide i had to tune toe-in of my speakers, to get better center focusing. This one also has mid freqs that i want to listen to hours and hours more. However, there seems to be a bit lack of attack in the rhythmic side. Mellow music with singing sounds fantastic, but drum heavy jazz can sound little laid back. Definitely worth a try, just because of the beautiful mids and highs. Mids that can make a man cry .

Hardware: Nord One Up, MSB Analog Dac, Marten Bird 2, PC."

He has all of the following to test:

LME49860
OPA2132
OPA2134
Sparkos
Burson V5
Sonic Imagery 994
LM4562
OPA627
NJM4580D
OPA797AR
OPA797BR
OPA2228
NE5532

[MikeCh]

There's actually probably at least 20 opamp types that can be used if you really wanted to get adventurous. Plus there's always new and better ones coming out from several different manufacturers. Some are as cheap as $1 a piece. So rather than swap amps all the time, swap opamps instead. If you have a collection of 20 sets of opamps, it's exactly the same as having 20 different amps. The opamps are amps. They are just little "preamps" for the main amps. Since the NC-500 output stage amp is so amazingly transparent, all you hear is the opamp.

Here's an example from 3Lviz from Diyaudio's impressions on a few different opamps tested in the Nord 1 up buffer:


"Here is my notes on LM4562 and Burson V5.

Burson V5
Overall it is quite good, but i am not sure if it is the best fit for the nCore input buffer. There seems to be a lot of upper bass but something is missing in the low freqs. The mids are very detailed and powerful tho. Especially drums are great. They seem to have extra punch. Highs are ok too. But i think the sound stage is lacking spatial information is it not especially wide and its kinda "messy" overall. Maybe this is because all the little details sounds as separate components but they dont integrate so well into one working art piece. This opamp is missing the fun in this application compared to some less expensive options.

LM4562
Well balanced sound. But, after listening to all these options it is maybe little dull. While listening to this opamp i constantly want to change the opamp, even tho there seems to be no apparent reason . However, if i had to demo for instance the capabilities of my speaker, this opamp would would be a very good candidate, since there seems to be no apparent downsides either that needed to explain to my guest ("its not the speaker that have this kind of sound, but the opamp in the amp's input buffer"). It produces quite wide sound stage, good spatial information. Jack of all trades, but master of none.

and OPA2132 notes too:

OPA2132P
Magical mids and highs with wide sound stage! The sound stage is so wide i had to tune toe-in of my speakers, to get better center focusing. This one also has mid freqs that i want to listen to hours and hours more. However, there seems to be a bit lack of attack in the rhythmic side. Mellow music with singing sounds fantastic, but drum heavy jazz can sound little laid back. Definitely worth a try, just because of the beautiful mids and highs. Mids that can make a man cry .

Hardware: Nord One Up, MSB Analog Dac, Marten Bird 2, PC."

He has all of the following to test:

LME49860
OPA2132
OPA2134
Sparkos
Burson V5
994-enh-ticha
LM4562
OPA627
NJM4580D
OPA797AR
OPA797BR
OPA2228
NE5532

Damn you Mike!!!!!! You ARE the pusher-man........and I thank you for your drugs. ✌️

(in all seriousness, your input here is highly valued and appreciated as this class D is new territory for me and possibly for others)

[Mivera Audio]

Damn you Mike!!!!!! You ARE the pusher-man........and I thank you for your drugs.

(in all seriousness, your input here is highly valued and appreciated as this class D is new territory for me and possibly for others)

Ha ha! Well I'm not even selling these. But I'm a huge fan of the concept. All of the Phison gear I do sell is designed the same way but with every single aspect. It's built like Lego's with everything on modular boards. So nothing will ever be obsolete, just new modular boards will become available as technology advances, rather than dumping the whole unit's to upgrade. 100% discrete circuitry as well on every modular board. No IC's anywhere. The cases are made for a lifetime. In 20 years everything will have the same model name and case. This is why they are designed to look simple and timeless. Think of them like the Klipschorn's, came out in 1947, and still can upgrade the 1951 and newer models to today's standards. IMO this is the only way to design audio gear.

http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...SdYMZjm8sBj.97

[joeinid]

MikeCh, See I told you Mike knew his stuff


Mike, thanks again for all the input. We look forward to playing around some. I have to try that OPA2132P, oh my.

[Mivera Audio]

MikeCh, See I told you Mike knew his stuff


Mike, thanks again for all the input. We look forward to playing around some. I have to try that OPA2132P, oh my.

No problem Joe!. Go on digikey and order it up! Only $11.59 a piece!. Just make sure you add the P version to the cart, not the ND.

http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...132P-ND/251142

[nc42acc]

I am in Colins build que for the Sonic Imagery Nord amps.

[joeinid]

I am in Colins build que for the Sonic Imagery Nord amps.

Congratulations, can't wait for you to post your opinion. Give it some time for break in, I'm sure you'll love it.

[joeinid]

Thanks! I was about to ask.

No problem Joe!. Go on digikey and order it up! Only $11.59 a piece!. Just make sure you add the P version to the cart, not the ND.

http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...132P-ND/251142

[MikeCh]

Hmmm, I just noticed something in the spec's for the Nord amps....

Is this correct on the input impedance?

" Low Input Impedance 1.2K "

Wouldn't this place it at 1200 ohms?

I'm used to seeing other power amplifiers with specs like, 150k or 300k ohms.

My linestage is rated at: Output impedance: 1K ohms SE, 600 ohms balanced so wonder if this will be a total failure of a match with the Nord's?

[Mivera Audio]

Hmmm, I just noticed something in the spec's for the Nord amps....

Is this correct on the input impedance?

" Low Input Impedance 1.2K "

Wouldn't this place it at 1200 ohms?

I'm used to seeing other power amplifiers with specs like, 150k or 300k ohms.

My linestage is rated at: Output impedance: 1K ohms SE, 600 ohms balanced so wonder if this will be a total failure of a match with the Nord's?

That's the NC 500 module itself. It's only an output stage. This is why a input board must be used. It's the only Hypex amp ever built that's only an output stage. This is also part of the reason it can be customized to sound so good. If you want to drive the NC500 output stage direct from your preamp, you must have a preamp with some serious current output capability such as the Phison PD2.

[MikeCh]

That's the NC 500 module itself. It's only an output stage. This is why a input board must be used. It's the only Hypex amp ever built that's only an output stage. This is also part of the reason it can be customized to sound so good. If you want to drive the NC500 output stage direct from your preamp, you must have a preamp with some serious current output capability such as the Phison PD2.

Thanks for that info Mike. I was curious how the Nord amps could be compatible with most other gear if they only had a 1200 Ohm input impedance!

[Jack]

Mike

If I remember right, Colin's amps are around 47k.

[MikeCh]

Mike

If I remember right, Colin's amps are around 47k.

Hi Jack,

Thanks, if that's true then they should be no problem with my linestage. Cool.

[Jack]

Mike

If Joe got them to work with the GAT and the C-52 they should be good to go. I will know soon with the W4S STP-SE and the Modwright LS-100.

[Mivera Audio]

The stock buffers are 94K. Not 100% sure what Colin's one up boards will be but it will be a super easy load.

[joeinid]

The GAT output impedance is 100 ohms or less and the C52 is 200 ohms balanced.

Both worked great.

Mike

If Joe got them to work with the GAT and the C-52 they should be good to go. I will know soon with the W4S STP-SE and the Modwright LS-100.

[Devg]

Hi Folks,

I am contemplating buying the Nord Up monoblock amp. I am auditioning a Merrill Veritas in my system but the nc500 got me thinking. Asked Colin how would the Nord compare with the nc1200 - he replied back saying that the difference is 5%. Its hard to believe that an amp with almost 1/5th the cost of nc1200 would fair so well. I am thinking of getting the SI 994 opamp to pair with the Cary slp-05 preamp and Acoustic Zen Crescendo speakers. While I think the speakers at 90db sensitivity will be super easy to drive, I don't know how would it fair with the Cary. The output impedance is 400Ohms and have read somewhere it actually reaches 600Ohms in some part of the spectrum. I had no problem pair with the Veritas as its at 100K. Does anyone would know the input impedance for the Nord ? Would it depend on the opamp ? Also wanted to see if the newer amps Nord is shipping with the updated revision of the input board to reduce the noise floor further ?

Thanks in advance.

[Devg]

Hi Folks,

I am contemplating buying the Nord Up monoblock amp. I am auditioning a Merrill Veritas in my system but the nc500 got me thinking. Asked Colin how would the Nord compare with the nc1200 - he replied back saying that the difference is 5%. Its hard to believe that an amp with almost 1/5th the cost of nc1200 would fair so well. I am thinking of getting the SI 994 opamp to pair with the Cary slp-05 preamp and Acoustic Zen Crescendo speakers. While I think the speakers at 90db sensitivity will be super easy to drive, I don't know how would it fair with the Cary. The output impedance is 400Ohms and have read somewhere it actually reaches 600Ohms in some part of the spectrum. I had no problem pairing with the Veritas as its at 100K. The input impedance for the Nord is 1.2K which seems pretty low. Is that a typo and wanted to mean 1.2M (megaohm) instead ? Would it depend on the opamp used ? Also wanted to see if the newer amps Nord is shipping with the updated revision of the input board to reduce the noise floor further ?

Thanks in advance.

[joeinid]

Welcome to the forum Devg.

[Mivera Audio]

Hi Folks,

I am contemplating buying the Nord Up monoblock amp. I am auditioning a Merrill Veritas in my system but the nc500 got me thinking. Asked Colin how would the Nord compare with the nc1200 - he replied back saying that the difference is 5%. Its hard to believe that an amp with almost 1/5th the cost of nc1200 would fair so well. I am thinking of getting the SI 994 opamp to pair with the Cary slp-05 preamp and Acoustic Zen Crescendo speakers. While I think the speakers at 90db sensitivity will be super easy to drive, I don't know how would it fair with the Cary. The output impedance is 400Ohms and have read somewhere it actually reaches 600Ohms in some part of the spectrum. I had no problem pairing with the Veritas as its at 100K. The input impedance for the Nord is 1.2K which seems pretty low. Is that a typo and wanted to mean 1.2M (megaohm) instead ? Would it depend on the opamp used ? Also wanted to see if the newer amps Nord is shipping with the updated revision of the input board to reduce the noise floor further ?

Thanks in advance.

The 1.2k is the input impedance without the buffer. It should be around 100k with the buffer. And yeah in the world of audio it foolish to use cost as a quality gauge. Keep in mind that Colin builds these in his garage and sells direct. If he had a big operation, and went through the usual distributor/dealer chain, based on the BOM they would easily be triple the price. His cost to build these are substantially higher than the $5000 Bel Canto Ref600m that uses the same amp modules and power supplies.

[Devg]

Thanks Joe

[Devg]

The 1.2k is the input impedance without the buffer. It should be around 100k with the buffer. And yeah in the world of audio it foolish to use cost as a quality gauge. Keep in mind that Colin builds these in his garage and sells direct. If he had a big operation, and went through the usual distributor/dealer chain, based on the BOM they would easily be triple the price. His cost to build these are substantially higher than the $5000 Bel Canto Ref600m that uses the same amp modules and power supplies.

Thanks Mike. When you say with buffer its around 100k, would it also depend on the opamps used ?

[jalejos]

Hi.
A few weeks ago I designed a buffer for the NC500 as EPM2 improvement model.

I'm testing with operational amplifiers LM4562, LM49720 and JRC MUSES01.
When you have the new board, I'll check with Burson Audio V5, Sparkoslabs SS3602 and Sonic Imagery 994 Enh-Ticha

[Mivera Audio]

Thanks Mike. When you say with buffer its around 100k, would it also depend on the opamps used ?

It with be right around there will all of the recommended opamps.

[Mivera Audio]

Hi.
A few weeks ago I designed a buffer for the NC500 as EPM2 improvement model.

I'm testing with operational amplifiers LM4562, LM49720 and JRC MUSES01.
When you have the new board, I'll check with Burson Audio V5, Sparkoslabs SS3602 and Sonic Imagery 994 Enh-Ticha

Hi Jalejos,

You should consider using the Hypex HxR, or Bellenson regulators. They are much better than those IC regulators.

You will probably have a hard time fitting the SIL 994's with so little clearance between the Dip8 socket and caps.