Ref 6 Has Arrived

[mep]

Is the bass 'tubey' sounding?

Absolutely not IMO. It will sound like whatever the source of the bass was. Drums sound like drums, upright acoustic bass sounds like upright acoustic bass, electric bass played through a bass amp will sound like that particular combo, etc.

[madfloyd]

Absolutely not IMO. It will sound like whatever the source of the bass was. Drums sound like drums, upright acoustic bass sounds like upright acoustic bass, electric bass played through a bass amp will sound like that particular combo, etc.

Thanks. I haven't heard the Ref 10 but I have owned the Ref 3 and Ref 5 and found the bass to be their Achilles heel.

[the professor]

Not to me at all.

Is the bass 'tubey' sounding?

[mep]

Thanks. I haven't heard the Ref 10 but I have owned the Ref 3 and Ref 5 and found the bass to be their Achilles heel.

I have no experience with the Ref 3 or Ref 5, but supposedly the Ref 5 was much better than the Ref 3 and many thought the Ref 5SE was a bigger leap over the Ref 5 than the Ref 5 was over the Ref 3. I owned the Ref 5SE for almost 2 years and I loved it. However, the Ref 5SE isn't in the same league as the Ref 6. If you are mildly interested in the Ref 6, you should try and hear a Ref 6 in your own system so you can form your own opinion. Any dealer that doesn't loan you gear is a fool.

[Barry]

Of course for the retail price of the Ref 6 you might be able pick up a used Reference 40th Anniversary and you might never feel the need to upgrade again.

[Dpod4]

Of course for the retail price of the Ref 6 you might be able pick up a used Reference 40th Anniversary and you might never feel the need to upgrade again.

Researching the Ref 40 (owned it) and the Ref 6 - ARC has placed the Ref 6 performance closer to the Ref 10 than to the Ref 40. Of course at this level it's all stupid good.

[madfloyd]

Researching the Ref 40 (owned it) and the Ref 6 - ARC has placed the Ref 6 performance closer to the Ref 10 than to the Ref 40. Of course at this level it's all stupid good.

Could you define the context of 'placed'? Are you referring to price?

[Deafone]

It would be interesting to hear how the lower register of a cello sounds with the new SE amps.

[Dpod4]

Could you define the context of 'placed'? Are you referring to price?

I was told performance-wise. The ref 6 built to be one box approximation of ref 10.

[MDP]

Darrin, when are you expecting yours?

[Dpod4]

I've had mine for a few weeks - haven't unboxed it yet - painting house and new carpet and my wife's dad just passed away so everything is in disarray. Also have new air tight atm 3011r monos I haven't fired up.

[joeinid]

Darrin,

So sorry to hear about your father in law, my condolences.

You have been busy, gear wise. Congratulations!

Those ATM-3011R's are some serious amps. Can't wait for some photos and your opinion.

[Mike]

Sorry to hear about your Father-in-law Darrin.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cmalak]

Darrin...condolences to you and your wife. I hope she's ok.

[MDP]

Darrin, I'm so sorry to hear that. Please tell your wife that we all are very sorry for her loss.

[Dpod4]

Appreciate the thoughts everyone.

[mep]

My condolences to you and your wife Darrin.

[Ritmo]

Darrin - My condolences to you, your wife and family.

[kzhtoo]

Hi mep,
Just wondering where I could read your review, assuming it has already been published? Also, how would you describe the speed and low frequency reproduction of Ref 6? Especially compared to SS pre-amps such as Pass XP-30, Ayre KX-R, etc. (if you know them well), if not, comparison with any SS pre-amp that you know will do.
I'm looking at new LS28 or used Ref 5SE and the info from ARC is LS28 sounds very similar to Ref 6 and main difference is in the size of the soundstage. LS28 also plays faster than Ref 5SE but Ref 5SE still holds the edge over LS28 in terms of soundstage.

[mep]

Hi mep,
Just wondering where I could read your review, assuming it has already been published? Also, how would you describe the speed and low frequency reproduction of Ref 6? Especially compared to SS pre-amps such as Pass XP-30, Ayre KX-R, etc. (if you know them well), if not, comparison with any SS pre-amp that you know will do.
I'm looking at new LS28 or used Ref 5SE and the info from ARC is LS28 sounds very similar to Ref 6 and main difference is in the size of the soundstage. LS28 also plays faster than Ref 5SE but Ref 5SE still holds the edge over LS28 in terms of soundstage.

If you mean my preliminary thoughts, you can read those here: http://positive-feedback.com/reviews...-6-line-stage/

The final version hasn't been written yet as I have a bunch of gear in for review. As for your other questions pertaining to how the Ref 6 compares against the Pass XP-30 and the Ayre KX-R, I have no experience with those preamps in my system. The last SS preamp that was in my system was the Krell KRC-HR. SS preamps sound like SS preamps and tube preamps sound like tube preamps. I owned the Ref 5SE for almost 2 years and I feel confident in saying the Ref 6 is better in every way. I have zero experience with the LS28 so I can't tell you how it compares with the Ref 5SE or the Ref 6. ARC tries to be accurate when they tell you how one product of theirs compares against another of their products and I think they do a good job. I'm sorry I can't give you the comparison information you are actually looking for, but I simply don't have experience listening to the SS preamps you are asking about.

If you have made up your mind that you want to buy an ARC preamp and not a SS preamp, you need to follow your wallet. The LS28 looks sort of like a Ref 6 and it sells for $7500. You can buy a used Ref 5SE for less money if you shop around. However, if the apparent speed of a preamp is more important to you than the soundstage size (going by your comments), then you should go for the LS28. The bonus is that you would be buying it brand new I presume so you would have a full warranty as well. I will tell you that I never considered the Ref 5SE as being slower sounding than the Ref 6 for whatever that is worth.

[kzhtoo]

Thanks a lot, mep. Appreciate it and it's very helpful. I'm leaning towards LS28 if it sounds similar to Ref 6. Yes if I have to pick between soundstage and speed, I'd go with the latter. I also prefer the new ARC look. But the decision isn't easy because Ref 5SE has been a very popular pre for many years and at current used price I feel it's a steal.

[hifinutt]

I will share a few more things

You really need to read the manual with the Ref 6. It comes with a programmable timer that was set by default from the factory to turn off the Ref 6 after 2 hours of not detecting any volume or input changes. I only found this out because I was playing my server through the system to help expedite break in and when I went downstairs to check on things, I noticed the Ref 6 was off. The first time I thought it was a fluke and powered it back up again. A few hours later I go back to check on it and it's turned off again. Now I think I have a problem with my brand new Ref 6. I break out the owner's manual and discover the programmable timer and how to set it with the remote. That's when I found it was set for 2 hours. You can change it from 1-8 hours or turn it off. I turned it off.

The Ref 6 is much more than just minor a upgrade to the Ref 5SE. The inputs are completely different on the back panel. The Ref 5SE has the RCA inputs stacked on top of the right channel's XLR connectors and on the bottom of the left channel's XLR connectors. The Ref 6 has the XLR and RCA inputs separate on the back panel and they are labeled separate on the remote as well. With the Ref 6, you have the ability to select names for each of your inputs. Again, this requires reading the owner's manual and using the remote to name your inputs. I will tell you that you need to be Johnny fast fingers on the remote when you are naming your inputs because if you hesitate during the steps, the preamp reverts back to the original name for the input (Bal 1, Bal 2, Bal 3, Bal 4, SE 1, SE 2, etc.). So now that you know that, you know that the remote is completely different than the Ref 5SE remote. And speaking of remote, you know that with the earlier Ref series you had a tube hour meter built in. With the Ref 6, you can set the hour meter back to zero when you install a new set of tubes if you are so inclined. This also allows for mischief on the part of a seller who claims the Ref 6 was only driven to church on Sunday by his dearly departed Grandmother.

And now for the sound: We all know the Ref 6 has a bigger power transformer, new power supply design, the line stage has been redesigned and has 6 tubes instead of 4, the volume pot has been changed, and the quality of the parts used has been upgraded over the Ref 5SE. Even though the gain specs haven't changed, I'm hard pressed to believe the Ref 6 doesn't have more gain. You will find yourself listening at much lower numbers on the digital read out for all of your sources and it will still sound louder and more powerful than the much higher numbers you used to listen to on the Ref 5SE. But that is only part of the story. The other part of the story is that I'm amazed and surprised at the difference the Ref 6 is making in my system. I told you all in my initial snapshot impression that I feel like I have a whole new system and not a preamp upgrade. I told you that if I was blindfolded when someone installed the Ref 6 and told me they swapped out my Ref 75 for a pair of killer monoblocks I would have believed it. Those initial impressions haven't changed. The Ref 6 has literally transformed my system for the better in every category we judge our systems and components. The Ref 6 simply sounds more like music and less like a really good system reproducing music.

I have no reservation telling anyone who owns a Ref 5 or Ref 5SE and was thinking about upgrading to the Ref 6 to take the plunge. I better save the rest of my thoughts for the review.

great to read this write up . one little thing , the ref 5se also had 6 tubes not 4 as mentioned