LAST Vinyl Accessory

[Mike]

Has anyone had any experience with the LAST Vinyl Accessories?

http://thelastfactory.com/

[A/V Solutions]

I like there stylus cleaner, have used it for 20 years or so....also there applicator brushes are great too, I provide them with my cleaning fluids......Walter is a great guy and his shop is 10 minutes from my house, convienent.

[Garth]

I used it many years ago not sure that it did much good or harm the records I used it on still play fine so do the ones I did not use it on.

If it does as it says and hardens the surface it then has to make it more brittle I see no sign of that on the records I treated.

[A/V Solutions]

I used it many years ago not sure that it did much good or harm the records I used it on still play fine so do the ones I did not use it on.

If it does as it says and hardens the surface it then has to make it more brittle I see no sign of that on the records I treated.

You must be refering to Last preservative.....some swear by it and some don't. I choose not to use anything permanate on the record. As always a YMMV thing.

[Jack]

I've used the stylus cleaner like Jeff for well over 20 years. I use the Onzow every couple of sides and the Last once a week. The bottles last forever.

[jdandy]

Has anyone had any experience with the LAST Vinyl Accessories?

http://thelastfactory.com/

Mike......All of my vinyl is Last treated. I have used this product since 1981. I became aware of Last when I worked for a high-end stereo dealer back in the early 80's. Every week the store owner would have an early meeting with the sales staff before the store would open. He brought in people like Bob Carver, Ray Kimber, various McIntosh reps, etc., and we had the opportunity to hear these people talk and then answer any questions we presented. It was always entertaining and I learned a lot. I bought my first Kimber Kable from Ray himself right there in the store when he was first promoting his wire. One Friday morning during our meeting the distributor for Last came to the store for our meeting. He set up an experiment that would last 24 hours and he returned to the store early Saturday morning to examine the results.

The Last rep set up two identical automatic turntables with identical Audio Technica moving magnet cartridges. He had three unopened vinyl albums of Stevie Wonder's Songs In The Key Of Life. He opened two of the three LP's, Last treated one and put the small Last label on it. He placed the Last treated LP on one turntable and the untreated LP on the other turntable. The turntables had a repeat function that made the tonearm lift at the end of the LP, cycle and replay. He instructed us to let the two LP's play all day and all night which we did. Saturday morning we came in early again and the Last rep was waiting on us. The two LP's were still playing. He brought an oscilloscope that he connected to the output of a small receiver we furnished. He stop both turntables and hooked one turntable to the receiver that the oscilloscope was connected to. He opened the third Stevie Wonder album that was brand new and never played, placed it on the turntable and set the stylus down at the end of the first track so that it would track through the end of the song and through the silent groove before the second track. He instructed us to observe the noise level displayed on the scaled screen of the oscilloscope. There was a visible noise level that reached the first scale mark during the silent area of the groove. Then he place the untreated LP on the turntable that had played continuously for 24 hours and set the stylus down in the same area. The noise level of the silent area between tracks was over twice as noisy on the oscilloscope scale than the brand new LP. Finally, he placed the Last treated album on the turntable that had just been played 24 straight hours, and lowered the stylus in the same area as before. The noise level on the silent groove between tracks one and two was slightly less than half of the noise level on the brand new album that was the test reference. I was floored. The Last treated LP after 24 hours of continuous play was quieter than a brand new LP. That's approximate 96 plays of the same side of an LP. I don't think I own an album I've played even half that many times.

That was all it took for me to be sold on the Last product. I bought two bottles with the supplied applicators and began treating my albums. A single bottle treated both sides of 50 LP's. At the time, if memory serves me right, Last was $15.00 a bottle. I have a bottle of Last and a couple applicators in the studio right now. It is a good product that has never caused me any adverse issues. Because the product molecularly bonds with the vinyl and the carrying agent evaporates quickly there is no residue that sticks to the stylus tip. As it was explained to us during this demonstration, one of the properties of Last allows it to dissipate heat more rapidly into the air as the stylus accelerates through the vinyl walls. This aids in reducing groove deformity. I'm sure there are many other scientific explanations for how Last works but my experience with the product has been positive. I have albums I purchased new in the 70's and 80's and Last treated that still sound brand new. I am a long time Last user. It is a great product.

[A/V Solutions]

I've used the stylus cleaner like Jeff for well over 20 years. I use the Onzow every couple of sides and the Last once a week. The bottles last forever.

I found after about a year the Last stylus cleaner gets funky from the stuff on the brush then back into the bottle and so on.....I kept an extra bottle, cleaned it out and when I crack open a new one I pour half into the extra bottle.....I rotate throgh half bottles every six months, much less gunk in the bottle this way plus I'm not throwing away as much.

[jdandy]

Jeff.......I have never used their stylus cleaner, only their record preservative. I have been and remain suspicious of using any liquids that may find their way up the cantilever and into the stylus suspension system.

[A/V Solutions]

The stylus cleaner is there best product IMO and you just need to swipe the tip of the stylus, it won't wick up the cantilever unless your extremely careless.....

[Jack]

+1, I've used the stylus cleaner with dozens of different cartridges and brands and have never seen an ill effect. But I just swipe from the back edge of the stylus forward and no more. If you don't want to use a liquid of any type then the Onzow does a good job too.

[MusicDirector]

My opinion: While I am aware of the LAST reputation and don't necessarily have issue with their stylus cleaner and certainly not their brushes, I am highly suspect of any product used as a record coating, preservative, etc. though.
Mind you, I have no experience with LAST products, but I do have lots of study of products and their effects on records. I believe just as we need to choose our vinyl cleaning fluids and methods with wisdom, so it goes with any other vinyl record products. For example, Some swear by Gruv Glide and some have tried it and are sorry they did. I have seen what it does and it's not good. It's like putting WD-40 on your records. Not only does it render the record next to impossible to ever clean again, but you should see what it does to the stylus and cartridge! A guy showed me a cart he had, that had about 100 hours on it. He played 4 records cleaned properly and treated with Gruv Glide and cleaned between plays. At the end you could not but barely see the stylus and there was gunk wicked up the cantilever. He worked on it a little more even using LAST cleaner and the end result was throwing out the cart.

I know LAST claims their product is different and changes the molecular structure of the record and perhaps it is, but here's my issue with that: Records are made of PVC as we know. There is also a soft outer layer on them so to speak, that is part of the mix. It's sort of like coatings on eyeglasses only not as hard. It is essentially there to prevent the record from turning into a piece of plumbing. Using the wrong agents on the record or even being too aggressive with cleaning methods can damage the layer or destroy it, then over time the record will become brittle and not to mention unplayable sounding awful. The LAST claims about their record preservative bother me because they claim it changes the molecular structure of the record. That means there is a chemical reaction and an aggressive one at that. It may not show damage or ill-effect in a short period of time, but what about a year or 3 years, etc?
Records just by their nature, will outlast the majority of CDs if properly cared for by the tried and true methods. I have records that are 60 years old or more and have been cleaned and maintained properly, played regularly and never treated with any claimed preservative or otherwise and they are in great shape for their age and sound great. To me personally at least, that means no "treatment" is needed.

Just my take on it as always YMMV.

[Mike]

Thanks guys. I was talking to Louis of Kronos last night and we got to talking about record cleaning. He uses his Ultrasonic (KL Audio) along with "three tiny drops" of LAST on each side of every album. He said he's now done over 5000 records this way.

P.S. I ordered the Kronos Pro yesterday.

[Dpod4]

Thanks guys. I was talking to Louis of Kronos last night and we got to talking about record cleaning. He uses his Ultrasonic (KL Audio) along with "three tiny drops" of LAST on each side of every album. He said he's now done over 5000 records this way.

P.S. I ordered the Kronos Pro yesterday.

Three tiny drops applied in the solution in the ultrasonic or applied after the ultrasonic?

[jdandy]

I know LAST claims their product is different and changes the molecular structure of the record and perhaps it is, but here's my issue with that: Records are made of PVC as we know. There is also a soft outer layer on them so to speak, that is part of the mix. It's sort of like coatings on eyeglasses only not as hard. It is essentially there to prevent the record from turning into a piece of plumbing. Using the wrong agents on the record or even being too aggressive with cleaning methods can damage the layer or destroy it, then over time the record will become brittle and not to mention unplayable sounding awful. The LAST claims about their record preservative bother me because they claim it changes the molecular structure of the record. That means there is a chemical reaction and an aggressive one at that. It may not show damage or ill-effect in a short period of time, but what about a year or 3 years, etc?

Eric.......I can appreciate your apprehension about Last record preservative. Perhaps 33 years of service on my Last treated albums isn't a long enough test reference to satisfy your concerns but I am 100% satisfied with the product and have suffered no ill effects, stylus debris, or other unwelcomed abnormalities. Oh, and not one single LP has mysteriously turned into a plumbing fitting. I know, I can't hardly believe it, either.

[slowgeezr]

I too have records that I treated with LAST at least 30 years ago. I hear and see no ill effects from using it.

[astrotoy]

I too have records that I treated with LAST at least 30 years ago. I hear and see no ill effects from using it.

Same here. Another LAST product that I have used with very good success is their Tape Preservative, on reel to reel tapes, I think it is Last #10.

Larry

[MusicDirector]

Eric.......I can appreciate your apprehension about Last record preservative. Perhaps 33 years of service on my Last treated albums isn't a long enough test reference to satisfy your concerns but I am 100% satisfied with the product and have suffered no ill effects, stylus debris, or other unwelcomed abnormalities. Oh, and not one single LP has mysteriously turned into a plumbing fitting. I know, I can't hardly believe it, either.

Hey there Dan, I just voiced my own concerns as I see it. It's not a put-down or even a stern warning to using it for anyone else, don't read too much into it. For me, I just tend to error on the side of being over-cautious. I'm extremely careful about record care, perhaps I'm over-doing it and missing out on a good product, but its a chance I take.
I know LAST has been around for decades and you don't uh,....last very long if you don't know what your doing, I get that. I may try it someday, but the first thing I want to do is look into it further.

[jdandy]

Hey there Dan, I just voiced my own concerns as I see it. It's not a put-down or even a stern warning to using it for anyone else, don't read too much into it. For me, I just tend to error on the side of being over-cautious. I'm extremely careful about record care, perhaps I'm over-doing it and missing out on a good product, but its a chance I take.
I know LAST has been around for decades and you don't uh,....last very long if you don't know what your doing, I get that. I may try it someday, but right now I just don't see the need.

Eric.......Got it. I'm not trying to promote Last, only offering testimony of my experience with the product over 3+ decades. I love my vinyl, too. I probably would have never mentioned Last or my use of it except for Mike's original post requesting information from users. To each their own.

[Myles B. Astor]

Yes, I'm one of those crazies who Jeff referred to! I wouldn't let LAST record preservative within a 100 miles of my records. LAST preservative really affects the sound especially the upper octaves and resolution. I cringe every time I order a LP off ePay and it comes with a LAST sticker on it. (There was another LAST-like product that came from Canada about 15-20 years ago that was bad and on top of that gunked up the stylus for umpteen number of plays after. Ughhhh...)

I use liquid stylus cleaners as sparingly as possible after talking to Peter Ledermann. One should see some of Peter's stylus microphotographs of what happens when you blow that piece of dust off your record before playing.

That said, LAST's record cleaning fluid was the basis for oh so many that followed later with some modifications.

As they say YMMV...

[jdandy]

LAST preservative really affects the sound especially the upper octaves and resolution.

Myles.......That's an easy enough claim to make. If it is so, there must be some actual documented results that can be duplicated by others that demonstrate before and after results proving your personal claims have a basis in actual fact. Where are the tests results and measurement data to back up such claims? I would enjoy reading the test results rather than rely on individual listening experiences that encompass the inevitable variables always present. I am not so hard headed that my opinions cannot be altered but I need more that someone else's opinion as a proof source. At this time, my personal experiences do not parallel yours. I have played many thoroughly cleaned vinyl LP's before and after Last treatment and have not experience altered upper octaves or diminished resolution. I have a good pair of ears and my vinyl rigs and sound systems are quite capable and revealing. For me, the lower noise floor of Last treated albums helps develop a greater sense of resolution, but like you said, YMMV.

[Myles B. Astor]

Try taking two identical records and listen to them first (to ensure the differences in sound aren't pressing related). Then treat one LP and leave the other as the control arm. That's all the proof I need.

As I said, I'm one of the crazies but suggest everyone listen for themself. There have been some awful LP surface protection fluids foisted on audiophile's over the years. Remember Soundguard?

[mep]

First things first. I have used Last stylus cleaner for the Last 100 years and I swear by it. I just clean the stylus with it and not the cantilever. I have an army of Anti-Last Wicker Special Forces (ALWSF) that guard my cantilever from Last trying to wick up and capture my cartridge flag. Second of all. back in the early 1980s, I did buy and use the Last record preservative goodies. It came in a nice box with applicators and sheets of Last stickers. I actually used Last on my precious Beatles BC-13 collection right after I first bought it and I still have the stickers on the LPs as testament to the ones I treated. I quit using LAST LP products with the first box I bought from them. I don't even remember why I quit using them, but it was probably because I was afraid of what the chemicals could be doing to my LPs. But here's the bottom line boys and girls, my Beatles LPs that I treated with Last still sound fantastic and I can hear no deleterious effects from their use.