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  1. #1
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    Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    http://youtu.be/VJKxu7tzsv4

    Audioshark member Sean (Zero) does a great job with his latest review - a review of the Harbeth Super HL5+.





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  2. #2
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    Re: Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    Sean - you said the HL5+'s are "more forward". Do you think they are encroaching more on the "HiFi sound" side vs the musical side of their predecessor?


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    Re: Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    Thanks for sharing Mike!! You pose a great yet surprisingly difficult-to-answer question. Here's my take on the subject:

    Harbeth has certainly made it clear that they are no longer interested in making loudspeakers that adhere to the same old BBC character that has more or less remained unchanged for the past 40+ years. The SHL5+'s are, per Alans words, the first set of Harbeths that showcase what their Radial drivers are capable of. Suffice to say, the sound of these speakers is far more neutral and dynamic than their predecessors. Now, does this mean that they are embracing more of a "Hi-Fi" sound? Honestly, I think the answer is both 'yes' and 'no'. Here's why I say that...

    At the end of the day, it all boils down to personal reference points.

    If you're used to loudspeakers that are voiced aggressively throughout midrange and treble, ala, most Focal, Revel, Magico, Thiel, B&W, JBL, Klipsch, vintage Wilson Audio, etc..., then you'll probably walk away thinking that the SHL5+'s retain a very smooth and even-keeled character.

    If however, you're used to your classic Spendors, vintage Harbeths, Sterlings, Rogers, Audio Notes, or just about anything that delivers a supremely colored (ie: rolled off and warm) presentation, then you may find the SHL5+'s to be surprisingly forward... bordering on aggressive.

    When you get right down to it, I think Harbeth is trying to have their cake and eat it too with the SHL5+ speakers. Whether or not they achieve that goal boils down to personal preference and system setup. As I mentioned in my review, you gotta put in some work if you really want hear what these speakers are capable of. Once you get them dialed-in though, I think it's safe to say that there aren't too many music lovers out there who'd dislike em'.

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    Re: Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    OMG. Thanks for the post. I will be back after watch the whole video.
    Paul

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    Re: Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    Sean, Thank you for the video. Enjoyed again. Quick question to you. Have you heard all line up of Harbeth ? Especially the M40.1 ?
    Paul

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    Re: Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    Hey Paul - I've spent time with all of em'. The problem is, I haven't spent *quality* time with all of them. To expand further...

    I recently got to hear the new 30's for all of 20 minutes. I spent a brief period of time with the Compact 7's, I've owned the P3's for a handful of years, and I got to hear the 40.1's at both a show and at a private residence. Oh yeah, I also got to hear the new 40.2's at RMAF, but that's not enough to warrant any merit worthy feedback.

  7. #7

    Re: Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    Thanks, Sean, for the great review.

    If you get the opportunity, please review the 40.2. Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

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    Re: Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    Paul

    Isn't the sound profile Sean is describing with the 5+ similar to what your heard as a difference between the 40.1 and 40.2? Alan would not be the first speaker designer to go in this direction lately after years on the other side.
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    Re: Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Paul

    Isn't the sound profile Sean is describing with the 5+ similar to what your heard as a difference between the 40.1 and 40.2? Alan would not be the first speaker designer to go in this direction lately after years on the other side.
    Yes, The reason why I purchased the last available M40.1 instead of M40.2. I'm sure some new crowd will go after their new sounds but as long time fan of BBC traditional sounds I wanted original Harbeth sounds.

    If you are first time user of Harbeth, here is a quick note. The C7 and SHL5 has a thin wall box sounds of it. It's great for saxophone & vocal sounds on jazz but not so much on classical or rock. The M40.1 has no thin wall box sounds just pure music without any colored sound also it's not warm at all. ( well, all the M series share this sounds I describe as M40.1 sound though )
    Paul

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    Re: Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    Sean - you mention that the Harbeth's are not the last word in dynamics. If you're someone who primarily listens to classical/large symphonic music, is it your opinion that the Harbeth's might not be the best bet?


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    Re: Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    If you ask me, Mike, I would say all depends on the model, Also, I would describe as less "detailed" than "dynamic"coz the dynamics are there on every model. However, when you hear the Oscar Peterson's We get requested - track " You look good to me " you are not going to hear the bass player's breathing crazy as like a "Hi-Fi" speaker sounds. It will just bring out what's on the record. Not dramatic ( I call as "boost") sounds.
    Paul

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    Re: Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    Sean. I sent you a pm few days ago. Would you check your inbox please.
    Paul

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    Re: Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    Hey Mike - Tonally speaking, I think the Harbeths are damn near perfect for classical/symphonic orchestral listening. When it comes to handling large dynamic swings and unraveling complex passages, I think they are good enough for most people. No, they won't capture the kind of drama that a good set of horns will , but even those speakers struggle to replicate the visceral sensation of 70-100 musicians/instruments playing at the same time. At the end of the day, I admit that I'm a tone whore, so that's what matters most to me.

    Paul - I'm surprised that my original response to your PM didn't go through. I sent off a second reply. Hopefully you get it! As for the 40.1's.... I dunno man, I think they have a very typical BBC curve to them. Don't get me wrong. They're enjoyable as hell, but nonetheless quite colored sounding to my ears.

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    Re: Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    Sean, got your a pm. Thanks.

    In regards to M40.1, my first pair in 2013 . I kind of agree on your experiment in small room with Mc gear but this second pair I purchased about 2 months ago is whole different story. I'm sure one of the reason is room ( double the size ) and could be the gear as well. Also, using a proper solid stands with isolation feets makes whole new speakers. Sometimes I'm not even sure I listen to Harbeth.
    Paul

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    Re: Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    Anyway ... my plan is collecting all the models with Rosewood finishes. I'm hooked again with Harbeth Harbeth Super HL5+ Review
    Paul

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    Re: Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    Paul - Dude, you're totally spot on with the whole stand thing. The mechanical and resonant relationship between a speaker and the foundation that it's placed on plays a HUGE role in what we hear. This hobby.... It's like a pleasant misery.

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    Re: Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    Paul - Dude, you're totally spot on with the whole stand thing. The mechanical and resonant relationship between a speaker and the foundation that it's placed on plays a HUGE role in what we hear. This hobby.... It's like a pleasant misery.
    Agreed. Sean, Have you ever try the Pro Audio Bono stands? Here are pics and makes great stands. I highly recommended for any Harbeth, Spendor users or any big bookshelf models.


    Isolation feets.


    These sit between speakers and stands.

    Paul

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    Re: Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    kkfan - Thanks for watching! Man, I'd love to get my paws on a set of 40.2's. I'm not sure if or when that will happen, but if it does, I'll be sure to announce it here at the Shark!

    Paul - Those stands look sweet!

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    Re: Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    A caveat about the veneers on harbeths, spendors, etc is care in how you couple it to the stand. a friend of mine used blu tack and it pulled the veneer off when he forcefully tried to lift the speaker off the stand. I had a similar issue with HL5s sitting on ordinary rubber bumpers. it stuck to the bottom of both speakers I had to apply mineral sprits in the crevice to loosen the speaker from the rubber bumpers. the veneer on one bottom corner started to lift and I was able to re glue it with thin cyano adhesive.

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    Re: Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    Paul,
    I am glad that you went with my PAB recommendation.
    Vladek clearly knows how to isolate and decouple.
    As you said, with proper isolation the 40.1 becomes what I always testified : a world class speaker, able to compete with speakers costing the price of houses.
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    Re: Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerome W View Post
    Paul,
    I am glad that you went with my PAB recommendation.
    Vladek clearly knows how to isolate and decouple.
    As you said, with proper isolation the 40.1 becomes what I always testified : a world class speaker, able to compete with speakers costing the price of houses.
    Thanks Jerome. I absolutely love them. Beside the PAB stands I also add the Vicoustics Super Bass Extreme on the corner and ASC tube traps on the side of speakers ( first reflections points ) now I truly hear the worlds best speakers in my room and I promise I won't replace these speakers ever again.

    I'm so glad went back to Harbeth Jerome. You know how much I loved them from beginning and I feel like went back to my home after the long journey.




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    Paul

  22. #22

    Re: Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    Thanks Jerome. I absolutely love them. Beside the PAB stands I also add the Vicoustics Super Bass Extreme on the corner and ASC tube traps on the side of speakers ( first reflections points ) now I truly hear the worlds best speakers in my room and I promise I won't replace these speakers ever again.

    I'm so glad went back to Harbeth Jerome. You know how much I loved them from beginning and I feel like went back to my home after the long journey.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Paul,

    What are the PAB stands made of?

  23. #23
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    Re: Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN99p82dVKg




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    Last edited by joeinid; December 27, 2015 at 11:26 AM.
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    Re: Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    Harbeth has certainly made it clear that they are no longer interested in making loudspeakers that adhere to the same old BBC character that has more or less remained unchanged for the past 40+ years.
    I have to strongly disagree with this point of view. Listen to the new Harbeth 30.1 and you will learn why.

    This speaker is actually even less forward than the P3ESR (not to mention the SHL5+) to the point of sounding a bit dark.

    IMO Harbeth introduced the more forward, more 'modern' sounding Super HL5+ for those, for whom the P3ESR and 30.1 are too 'old school'. But the much loved BBC school was not forgoten or abandoned, and the new 30.1 is a proof of that.

    BTW - this review from HiFi Statement nails the character of the 30.1:

    http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/harbeth6/1.html
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  25. #25

    Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Elberoth View Post
    I have to strongly disagree with this point of view. Listen to the new Harbeth 30.1 and you will learn why.

    This speaker is actually even less forward than the P3ESR (not to mention the SHL5+) to the point of sounding a bit dark.

    IMO Harbeth introduced the more forward, more 'modern' sounding Super HL5+ for those, for whom the P3ESR and 30.1 are too 'old school'. But the much loved BBC school was not forgoten or abandoned, and the new 30.1 is a proof of that.

    BTW - this review from HiFi Statement nails the character of the 30.1:

    http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/harbeth6/1.html
    Alan learned from the introduction, and subsequent phenomenal success, of the SHL5+ that that sound is what the market wants. From that lesson was born the 40.2, which is the opposite of 40.1 and in the same direction as the 5+.

    30.1 is an old-generation speaker. When, if ever, it gets revised to a "30.2," my guess is that it would have a sonic signature similar to the 5+ and 40.2. That would be evidence that the BBC philosophy has indeed been abandoned by Harbeth due to changes in consumer tastes.

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    Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    Quote Originally Posted by kkfan View Post
    ]
    30.1 is an old-generation speaker. When, if ever, it gets revised to a "30.2," my guess is that it would have a sonic signature similar to the 5+ and 40.2. That would be evidence that the BBC philosophy has indeed been abandoned by Harbeth due to changes in consumer tastes.
    Makes me wonder I should collect all the previous generation before it's too late....
    Paul

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    Re: Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Elberoth View Post
    I have to strongly disagree with this point of view. Listen to the new Harbeth 30.1 and you will learn why.

    This speaker is actually even less forward than the P3ESR (not to mention the SHL5+) to the point of sounding a bit dark.

    IMO Harbeth introduced the more forward, more 'modern' sounding Super HL5+ for those, for whom the P3ESR and 30.1 are too 'old school'. But the much loved BBC school was not forgoten or abandoned, and the new 30.1 is a proof of that.

    BTW - this review from HiFi Statement nails the character of the 30.1:

    http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/harbeth6/1.html
    Hello Adam,

    Thanks ! I replied on AA.
    To tell it in other words, my ears are probably the problem with the 30.1.
    I know that thousands of customers do love them.
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  28. #28

    Re: Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    Makes me wonder I should collect all the previous generation before it's too late....
    If you like the 40.1 sound, then you may want to do just that. Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

  29. #29

    Re: Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    Below is what Alan wrote in the Harbeth forum last July. He explains the history and design characteristics.


    Today, unless there are any unexpected surprises, I completed the development of the M40.2 and tomorrow, we build the first production pair and express courier them to Stuttgart, Germany. I will fly to Stuttgart on Monday next, and introduce the 40.2 to a German magazine, the last chance before they move offices. I've poured myself a nice, cool Belgian witbier, and if you have a moment, I'd like to bring you up to date on the project.

    First, a review of some history. The M40x family was conceived as a three way design (bass unit, midrange unit and tweeter) to replace the two way (bass unit, tweeter; no midrange drive unit) BBC LS5/8, as we were encouraged to do by the BBC when the Rogers company collapsed around 1997 or thereabouts. We secured the entire stock of spare parts from the Rogers liquidator, and that kept the BBC's 5/8s serviceable for some years, although as soon as the (original) M40 was launched, the BBC started to trade-in their old 5/8s against brand new M40s. I have lost track of how many M40s there are at the BBC.

    The reason that the M40 was designed as a three-way is for the extremely obvious reason that the audio spectrum needs to be split three ways if the speaker has a large, 12" (300mm) bass unit because, no matter how you tinker with such a system, bass units are always at their best in the bass region, and midrange units are optimised for midrange, relieved of the stress of moving air and handling high power. The two-way LS5/8 was a miserable compromise, and as we have many pairs here at Harbeth HQ traded-in from BBC studios as far afield as London, Belfast and Scotland (for Harbeth M40s), I think we know better than anyone, even the BBC themselves, how these production LS5/8 speakers actually measure, behave and sound. We've looked at that in detail elsewhere on this forum.

    Because of this historical starting point, there was a necessity to design the M40 as a 'drop-in replacement' for the LS5/8 that sorted-out the serious spectral imbalances whilst not delivering a speaker that was so radically different from what long in the tooth BBC sound engineers (studio managers: radio, sound supervisors: TV) were used to working with. It never crossed my mind back in 1997 or so that there would be a domestic market for the M40, because the 5/8 was so extremely peculiar in its sound balance that it had never found a domestic market nor even a professional market outside British broadcasting - BBC and ITV, but the M40 was sufficiently superior to the old 5/8 that it found both a home market and a pro market, although it was sonically balanced (or 'voiced') with a definite nod towards the professional user, in a well damped, LF absorbing, 'proper' studio acoustic. Some domestic users found that the bass of the original M40 was an issue in untreated home acoustics, other found they fitted in just fine.

    A few years ago (2008?) I undertook a mid-course review of the M40 and as my judgement was that by far the most important market for such a speaker was in the domestic arena, the M40.1 was conceived, with a different overall balance to the original M40 which subjectively made it much more domestically acceptable, and again, found favour amongst new generation installations in the pro studio market for its natural speech rendition. The most important element in the journey towards the M40.2 has been the simply delightful success of the SuperHL5plus, which has captured (and captivated!) a whole new audience and very significantly increased the turnover of the Harbeth company in just one year. Only a fool would have not connected the design innovations embodied in the SHL5+ with the universal praise it's received: it was designed differently from all previous Harbeths, and that difference is what the market evidently very much like. I observed the market, I listened to the feedback, I learned from the reviews, and I have applied the same magic that went into the SHL5plus into the M40.2. And some.

    Had we started from a different perspective, I would not have named this new model '.2' because in fact, it is a very different speaker indeed. Frankly, there were times over the last weeks when, just as I experienced during the SHL5+ development last year, that I needed to reprogramme myself as to what a speaker should sound like and should do. It was easy to have mini crises where I had to fight the urge (OK, sometimes I gave in to the urge and then reversed myself away from that position over the next days) where I wanted to compensate for poor recordings (of which there are legion) and damp down the potential of the M40.2 so that even those iffy recordings sounded OK-ish. But as I found with the SHL5+, and again with the M40.2 but to an even greater extent, when the recording, the music and the performance are all in harmony, the overall sound is simply indescribably involving: an entrance, a doorway, a sound curtain hanging in space somewhere in the listening room like a worm-hole into another dimension. I've been fiddling about with speakers for forty years, and on an A1 recording, this M40.2 experience is really, really special. The speakers simply do not exist in the room to my ears anyway but it's for the market to decide if that's how others experience them. It's the closest I've got to a loudspeakerless listening experience.

    Now, about the bass. As I mentioned above, the legacy of the M40 (the previous LS5/8) is that of a 'generous' bass which works when the room has sufficient damping, as you would tend to find in a traditional (but not modern, low budget) studio. For the M40.2, just as with the SHL5+, I have rebalanced the entire speaker so that the bass/mid/top frequency response is a flat line. That took every gram of creativity, and to do that with a tight cost constraint has burnt much midnight oil. The re-balancing has two effects: the greater presence takes attention away from the bass and makes the entire presentation more engaging and in reality, the speaker will work fine in just about any environment now, big or small, spare bedroom upwards, damped or undamped so there is no need to modify your domestic living space to get a really great sound. Of course, the M40.2 is a big box and it's up to you to decide if you can/must/absolutely must! make space for them in your life.

    And about the M40 and M40.1 users. How will they feel? Well, both those models are low coloration designs, as of course is the M40.2, so there is no reason to consider them inferior if low coloration and an easy sound are your listening goals. In the right environment the M40/40.1 sound lovely, and if your musical diet is of less-than-perfect recordings (example: historical jazz; harsh, compressed, over-miked classical recordings etc. etc.) or your electronics or room environment is known to be bright, then the softer, easier sound of the earlier models, if that is what you are used to, may well be best option. But if you hunger for the last atom of transparency, accept that many recordings are flawed but appreciate a really great recording such that you have to constantly remind yourself that you are not at the recording venue, and that the performers have not, magically been conjureded-up at your command in your own room, then the M40.2 is the right choice: but they are devastatingly revealing of micro details, so that you can very clearly hear the different nature of recording microphones, flawed recording techniques and everything that gets in the way of being really there. That is what a true monitor speaker is designed to do though: tell it like it really is. It might be too much of a shock?

    So, supposing that you are an M40, M40.1 (or even, GF, an LS5/8 user) should you automatically plan for an upgrade? No: you have to hear the M40.2 and what it is capable of first. That means we cannot even begin to consider the upgrade situation unless we have our entire dealer network on-side, because you will have to hear the M40.2 somewhere. And the best place is in a real, bricks and mortar Harbeth dealer's premises and of course, 'upgrades' cannot be expected to behave exactly as a new, fresh pair straight of the production line would.

    I would urge you to invest time in establishing that the basics of your entire system are 100% correct before making the leap to this level of natural transparency. The one single factor you must be certain of is that your amp must not be driven to saturation (clipping) at any time by overly loud (digital)sources, let alone of inadequate power reserve to drive a big speaker and control it properly. Personally, I would give a very wide berth to any hifi amp, regardless of brand name or cost that has an insanely high input sensitivity for digital sources, such as 100mV, despite the tosh put out by marketing men. It's bad engineering and unjustifiable.
    You can follow the entire discussion at this link:

    http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/s...5414#post35414

  30. #30
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    Re: Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    Quote Originally Posted by kkfan View Post
    If you like the 40.1 sound, then you may want to do just that. Harbeth Super HL5+ Review
    Oh yeah. Big time. Love the musical sounds.

    If I want the modern Hifi sounds I would like to get speakers with modern design. To me the Harbeth speakers design really works well with traditional BBC sounds. Don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with newer sounds but just not draw me in to music as older generations one's.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Paul

  31. #31
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    Re: Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    Well said Paul.
    The writing of AS is very interesting.
    If Harbeth is leading towards a "modern" clinical sound, because the "customers are waiting for that", I guess they are just loosing a part of their soul.

    BTW, I have a brand new pair of Rosewood P3ESR in their sealed box and I sell them. ( 1 pair is enough for me ).
    PM me if you need them.
    Shindo, Nagra, Electrocompaniet, Harbeth, AMR, Mc Intosh, Auditorium 23, Rega, DeVore, JC Verdier, WireWorld, Kimber

  32. #32
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    Re: Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    Quote Originally Posted by kkfan View Post
    30.1 is an old-generation speaker.
    30.1 was launched in 2013. Considering Harbeth's product life cycles, that is still quite new.

    SHL5 was in production for 14 years.
    M40.1 was in production for 8 years (the product was first mentioned in 2007).
    M30 was manufactured for how many - 15 years ?

    .1 suffix does not mean 30.1 and 40.1 are the same 'generation' (if ever such a thing as 'generation' in Harbeth existed).
    Adam

    Speakers: Magico M3
    Amp: Dagostino Momentum Stereo
    Digital: Lampi Horizon + Lampi DSD Komputer

  33. #33
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    Re: Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerome W View Post
    Hello Adam,
    To tell it in other words, my ears are probably the problem with the 30.1.
    I bet your ears are perfectly fine. What happened is probably speaker bass peak added to your room bass mode to created the effect you have heard.
    Adam

    Speakers: Magico M3
    Amp: Dagostino Momentum Stereo
    Digital: Lampi Horizon + Lampi DSD Komputer

  34. #34

    Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Elberoth View Post
    30.1 was launched in 2013. Considering Harbeth's product life cycles, that is still quite new.

    SHL5 was in production for 14 years.
    M40.1 was in production for 8 years (the product was first mentioned in 2007).
    M30 was manufactured for how many - 15 years ?

    .1 suffix does not mean 30.1 and 40.1 are the same 'generation' (if ever such a thing as 'generation' in Harbeth existed).
    What I meant by "old generation" was pre-SHL5+ era. If you read Alan's post, you will see that the success of the sonic character of the SHL5+ was a revelation to him. He fought with his own instincts when trying make the 40.2 more like the 5+. In the end, he went with what the market demanded.

    The relatively rushed upgrade to the 40.1 (8 years vs. 14 for SHL5+) may indicate that the 30.1 may not last as long as its predecessor (M30) did before it is upgraded to reflect the new design philosophy.

  35. #35
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    Re: Harbeth Super HL5+ Review

    You are stretching it a bit here, as 8 years is still not ... 3 years.

    FYI - the original SHL5 has always been the most forward of the lot.
    Adam

    Speakers: Magico M3
    Amp: Dagostino Momentum Stereo
    Digital: Lampi Horizon + Lampi DSD Komputer

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