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Thread: Hegel vs. Pass - thoughts?
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September 1, 2015, 08:50 PM #1
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Hegel vs. Pass - thoughts?
Since folks here were so friendly and helpful after my last (and first) post, I was hoping to get some feedback here on differences between Hegel and Pass.
I am a relatively new audiophile (2+ years). I have Rockport Atria speakers and a newly delivered Berkeley Reference DAC. I currently have Hegel H20 and P20.
My default plan has been to upgrade to Hegel H30 and search far and wide for the right preamp to add some "magic" to the sound. Based on feedback here from last post, I opened my preamp search to tube preamps to mate with H30. Have only heard one relatively inexpensive, little hyped tube preamp (Rogue RP5), and while that will not be the answer, it was revelatory: there was an organic flow and tone to the music with this little preamp that I had missed in the SS preamps I've tried with the H30. I will listen to Rogue Hera II and a handful of other tube preamps in the coming days.
But, before going this route, the 1 amp that consistently grabs my attention from what I've heard is Pass. Can anyone comment on the differences between Hegel H30 and Pass 60.8's, for instance? Are the 60.8's adequate to drive my 87.5 db Atrias?
I feel I am at an important decision point in system design: go H30 and then solve for the missing variable (likely a tube preamp) - or track down Pass gear (might need to have out of town ship from Reno Hi-fi) to try out.
Words that might describe qualities I'm drawn to in electronics: ease of power, musical, sweet midrange, emotional, non-fatiguing, bloom, electric, lush, immediate. I am definitely not looking for the final word in transparency, bass, or soundstage. I have learned the hard way that I could care less what Stereophile or any expert says. It has value but nothing replaces my own ears. I want to hear Jerry Garcia on guitar or Miles on trumpet and have the maximum emotional response. But I need enough power and bottom end for this groove-based music that - at times - is played with some decent volume.
In short, I think the H30 can be a great fit - while matched with a preamp that sprinkles some magic dust on the overall sound.
How would an all Pass system compare?
Any thoughts? Should I do the easier thing and buy an amp that I've heard several dozen times and know I like (H30) or deal with the inconvenience of tracking down Pass gear?
Thanks for your help - this is such a great forum.
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September 1, 2015, 08:57 PM #2
Re: Hegel vs. Pass - thoughts?
Justin, I can't help you with a comparison between Pass and Hegel, I can only tell you, that for me, my Pass XA100.5 pushes all the right buttons. I use mine with 92dB efficient speakers and the Pass monoblocs are all I could ask for.
Regards,
Steve
https://www.audionirvana.org/forum/t...geezr-s-system
I only do what the voices in my wife's head tell her to tell me to do.
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September 1, 2015, 10:30 PM #3
Re: Hegel vs. Pass - thoughts?
I wouldn't recommend 60.8's for 87db efficient speakers. 160.8 would be the ticket. But price wise vs the Hegel, that's many multiples.
I would focus on Hegel H30 with a killer tube preamp (VAC for example).
MikeMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
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September 2, 2015, 09:07 AM #4
Re: Hegel vs. Pass - thoughts?
I totally agree with Mike. Like I said before, you won't really appreciate the Hegel until you try a different pre. The Pass gear is very good stuff, but you will have to spend a lot more money to appreciate it vs the H30.
Brucelet on our forum pairs a Mc tube pre with his H30 and is in love with the sound. I plan on trying a tube pre also in my system to see if it's better than my Classe, so far the CP 800 hasn't been beat, but I try and stay open minded.
The ARC Ref 5SE was also very good when I paired it with the H30. But that was in a different system than mine.Last edited by MDP; September 2, 2015 at 09:30 AM.
Mark
Kharma DB9 Signature
Pass Labs XP32......incoming
Pass Labs X350.8
Esoteric N-05XD
VPI Avenger with Magnetic Drive
Manley Chinook Phono Pre
Ortofon Cadenza Black cartridge
Kharma Elegance speaker cables
Kharma Elegance interconnects
REL Subs
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September 2, 2015, 09:24 AM #5
Re: Hegel vs. Pass - thoughts?
Will Justin, you spent a lot of money for your speakers & DAC. Why not spend a lot of money and purchase a pair of Pass xa160.8 and be done with it? That's what I would do! Keep it all the same pedigree.
George
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Aurender ACS10 Music Server > Holo Audio May KTE R2R Ladder DAC > Pass Labs XP-30 Preamp > Pass Labs XA160.5 Class A Mono Blocks > Martin Logan Renaissance ELS 15A Speakers
Powered By 2X BPT 3.5 Signature Plus Ultra Isolators | Shunyata Research Hydra Triton + Typhon | Shunyata Hydra 2 Power Conditioner
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September 2, 2015, 09:29 AM #6
Re: Hegel vs. Pass - thoughts?
I agree with George - if you can swing it....XA160.8's all day long. But price wise, we aren't comparing apples to apples.
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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September 2, 2015, 09:50 AM #7
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Re: Hegel vs. Pass - thoughts?
I'd stick with the H30, and try different preamps, as it was your original impulse SS amp + tube preamp is a classic combination! Just looking now at Mike' sig, I'm reminded of the AirTight preamps... Those could be a good match!
The H30 is fantastic, and at its price, can't be beat.
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September 2, 2015, 09:52 AM #8
Re: Hegel vs. Pass - thoughts?
Justin....what preamp/amp options do you have locally to listen to (either at dealer with your Atrias if possible or better yet at home)?
Cyril
Speakers/Amp/Preamp: Thiel CS2.4 / ARC Ref 110 / ARC Ref 3
Sources: Basis 2001/Graham2.2/Nagra BPS/Benz Micro Glider SL, Dynavector 20X2-L, ARC CD7, Oppo BDP-83 SE
Cables/Power/Other: Nordost Heimdall ICs, SCs / Shunyata Hydra 8, Shunyata Python Helix PC / VPI 16.5, HRS Nimbus isolation system
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September 2, 2015, 10:11 AM #9
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Re: Hegel vs. Pass - thoughts?
Well, I live in Boston area. I have identified and plan on listening to the following pres: ARC Ref5SE, Ayre KX-R (not tube, but still would like to hear), Rogue Hera II, possibly a Jadis pre, VAC (not sure which model), Shindo Monbrison (but would likely be interested in Vosne Romanee-L).
for amps, I've heard everything that my dealer has to offer and nothing clicked as much as H30. played around with Devialet setup for a bit, but I found it to lack emotional response. really liked Constellation gear but when I came back to H30 I realized that I do very much enjoy the immediacy and character of H30.
This thread has already been hugely helpful for 1 major reason: feedback that the 60.8's won't give me as much juice as I'd want/need. In that event, maybe Pass gear is something I revisit down the road when $$ and time allow, but it seems to me make sense to focus on H30 and then solve for the missing variable: the best pre to squeeze all the character out of this system I can get. Considering there's really no local Pass dealer, this seems the right way to go.
Anyone ever hear Shindo with H30? I know most Shindo fans go all Shindo, but I'm curious.
Also curious: anyone ever hear Pass XP30 (or XP20) with H30 amp?
Thanks
Justin
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September 2, 2015, 11:30 AM #10
Re: Hegel vs. Pass - thoughts?
Justin...I am in Boston too. Sounds like you're dealing with Paul at Goodwins (great guy) with regards to the Hegel stuff (and I am sure your Atrias). Goodwins is a bit light on tube stuff right now, so yes you can listen to Audio Research (they have a demo Ref5SE for sale), McIntosh and VTL at Natural Sounds in Framingham. Also, Shindo and Leben at Westford Audio. Finally, Fidelis in NH (1 he from Boston) has VAC, VTL, BAT, for tube stuff as well as Pass Labs, if you want to check them out. Lots of options.
Cyril
Speakers/Amp/Preamp: Thiel CS2.4 / ARC Ref 110 / ARC Ref 3
Sources: Basis 2001/Graham2.2/Nagra BPS/Benz Micro Glider SL, Dynavector 20X2-L, ARC CD7, Oppo BDP-83 SE
Cables/Power/Other: Nordost Heimdall ICs, SCs / Shunyata Hydra 8, Shunyata Python Helix PC / VPI 16.5, HRS Nimbus isolation system
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September 3, 2015, 04:44 AM #11
Re: Hegel vs. Pass - thoughts?
Be sure to listen to a Soulution 520 preamp in your system, it "is" one of the better ones out there when one wants to go stratosphere pricing or top shelf!
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September 3, 2015, 06:01 AM #12
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Re: Hegel vs. Pass - thoughts?
You mention Ayre preamp I own that preamp and like it a lot. You also mention going to a tube preamp do as you like just do some reading on tubes they are more trouble in some cases than SS not saying you can not make it work just know what you are getting into.
Never used Pass gear so I am no help to you on that one.Lyra Atlas, tri-planner, clear audio statement, Burmester 100, Ayre KXR20, Ayre MXR20, Ayre DX5, Adept Response line conditioner, Ayre signature interconnects, Cardas clear power cables,cardas clear speaker cables and Martin Logan CLX with Decenti subs with Cardas hex link.
Not in use Infinity QLS and Ohm F
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September 3, 2015, 05:59 PM #13
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Re: Hegel vs. Pass - thoughts?
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September 3, 2015, 09:27 PM #14
Re: Hegel vs. Pass - thoughts?
I heard the Atrias with the H30 and it was an excellent combo but I would stay away from the Hegel preamp with it. I love the Hegel with my McIntosh C500T. It was also nice with the Constellation preamp. If you are thinking Pass, you don't have to go far. Mike is a Pass dealer.
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September 4, 2015, 11:02 AM #15
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September 5, 2015, 12:35 PM #16
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Re: Hegel vs. Pass - thoughts?
Update: pulled the trigger and ordered H30 yesterday. looking forward to playing around with preamp options and finding the rights match.
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September 5, 2015, 12:37 PM #17Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE
NAD C 658 streamer.
First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
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September 5, 2015, 12:44 PM #18My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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September 5, 2015, 06:11 PM #19
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Re: Hegel vs. Pass - thoughts?
I have a mint condition Pass XP-20 preamp, with a brand new Revelation Audio Labs CryoSilver Reference DB-25 Umbillical cable going up for sale shortly. Price will be 4k, plus shipping. At this price, I would think you could give it a thorough try-out.......and re-sell at no loss (if synergy is not found). You could pick up my Pass XS-150 monos as well, but it sounds like they may be above the budget you've set aside ?? Either way, good luck with your system.
Happy listening........Jerry-
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September 5, 2015, 07:00 PM #20
Re: Hegel vs. Pass - thoughts?
Mark
Kharma DB9 Signature
Pass Labs XP32......incoming
Pass Labs X350.8
Esoteric N-05XD
VPI Avenger with Magnetic Drive
Manley Chinook Phono Pre
Ortofon Cadenza Black cartridge
Kharma Elegance speaker cables
Kharma Elegance interconnects
REL Subs
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September 5, 2015, 09:00 PM #21
Re: Hegel vs. Pass - thoughts?
Cyril
Speakers/Amp/Preamp: Thiel CS2.4 / ARC Ref 110 / ARC Ref 3
Sources: Basis 2001/Graham2.2/Nagra BPS/Benz Micro Glider SL, Dynavector 20X2-L, ARC CD7, Oppo BDP-83 SE
Cables/Power/Other: Nordost Heimdall ICs, SCs / Shunyata Hydra 8, Shunyata Python Helix PC / VPI 16.5, HRS Nimbus isolation system
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September 11, 2015, 10:18 AM #22
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Re: Hegel vs. Pass - thoughts?
Thanks Jerry - has anyone heard a Pass preamp with Hegel H30? At this point in the game I don't see buying anything I haven't heard, though. I've made a fundamental decision to only buy what I can hear first (after all, it seems with virtually any piece of gear you can find those who love it and those who don't, right?).
Unlike some of my previous purchases, I am going to try my best to completely disregard professional reviews while finding the right preamp. I will take my time and wait until the right match moves me.
H30 arrives tomorrow, I will be able to listen to Shindo Monbrison with it first. Based on how the Shindo sounds with my H20 right now, I don't think the match is ideal, but we shall see.
Keep you posted...
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September 11, 2015, 10:45 AM #23
Re: Hegel vs. Pass - thoughts?
I had my H30 with my Pass XS preamp. Good match, but my honest opinion is that it needs a good tube preamp. VAC for example.
I've sent my VAC preamp to Mark (MDP) to try with his Hegel H30. Let's wait and see what his thoughts are.My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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September 11, 2015, 11:21 AM #24
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September 11, 2015, 09:01 PM #25
Re: Hegel vs. Pass - thoughts?
_______________
Mike
Amplification: MBL 6010D, MBL 9008A Monos
Analog: Kuzma R, Kuzma 4Point (11”), MSL Ultra Eminent EX
Phono Pre: Pass XP-27
Digital: Esoteric N01XD Esoteric K05
Speakers: MBL 101E MKII
Subwoofers: REL Carbon Specials
Conditioner: Shunyata Triton 3
Power Cables: Shunyata Sigma 1 & 2, Alpha 2, Delta and Venom
ICs and SCs: Wireworld Platinum 8
Rack: Artesania Exoteryc
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September 12, 2015, 04:45 AM #26
Re: Hegel vs. Pass - thoughts?
The only solid state preamp that I have heard that stopped me from going to a tube preamp was the Soulution 520!
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September 12, 2015, 08:55 AM #27
Re: Hegel vs. Pass - thoughts?
I'm using my H30 with a McIntosh C500T. I have Revel Salon 2s and Raidho D1s. It is a great match. It lets all the Hegel great qualities shine, without a hint of edge, brightness or sibilance.
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September 12, 2015, 02:03 PM #28
Re: Hegel vs. Pass - thoughts?
Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE
NAD C 658 streamer.
First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
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September 12, 2015, 10:02 PM #29
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Re: Hegel vs. Pass - thoughts?
I have heard the H30 with Concert Fidelity CF-080 LSX2 on Venture Grand Ultimate speakers. Awesome!!
Venture Audio Grand Ultimate in Macassar Ebony, Thrax Dionysos pre, Thrax Tres mono's, Magnus MA-300 w/ MA-500 power supply, Stealth digital RCA, Acoustic Zen Absolute Silver pc's, Prana Wire Cosmos sp. cables, LG 65" OLED, ModWright modified Oppo 103D(transport), Reference Line Stage power conditioner, SME 20-2w/ Graham 2.2 tonearm, Ortofon Windfeld, Canary Audio MC10, PranaWire Linebacker, Luxman D-08 cd/sacd/dac.
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September 21, 2015, 07:14 AM #30
Re: Hegel vs. Pass - thoughts?
Hi Justin. I am in the same boat.
Yesterday I was able to audition in my apartment the H30/P20 combo and I was really impressed with my Harbeth M30.1.
Even the dealer was quite happy about the synergy and how the gear disappear from the space letting the music flow smoothly.
It certainly smoked my Luxman 590 AX integrated. No comparison specially on bass control department that it is quite important for me on room 18X12.
Do you have any idea the price kg this combo second hand ?
Regards
Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk
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AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
Sincerely,
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