Music First Preamps...Thoughts?

[jaxwired]

Anyone ever own one or currently own one? I've been curious since Sam Tellig (Gillet) reviewed the baby ref a couple years ago. I know the placette passive preamp which I have owned was very interesting indeed. Would love to hear a music first preamp in my home.

[hifinutt]

now I know this thread is very old but having had 6 music first pre amps I thought I should just comment . they are incredible pre amps . I had the music first baby ref at the same time as an arc ref 5se and they really were on a level with each other . highly recommended to try these pre amps

http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/mus...-preamplifier/

jonathan the creator of these beauties came to my house when they came out to try one and it was most impressive in dynamics . since then they have bought out the v2 version which is better I am told

[KeithR]

All I'm going to say is a Baby Reference v2 just might be incoming

[hifinutt]

ah that's great , we look forward to your thoughts . I was chatting with jonathan back in feb at the Bristol show . he is so enthusiastic about his stuff and service and back up second to none

[VoicesInMyHead]

I recently added a Baby Classic "v2" to my setup, using quotation marks as Jonathan suggested adding the v2 transformer for the Baby Classic as the most cost effective solution. I have a volume control in my DAC, and to be honest I didn't really think I needed a preamp, but was still curious about trying these Music First products as I've been reading about them for quite some time. I wrote a little about my experience here the other day...

http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...l=1#post203716

In short, I've been extremely impressed by the Baby Classic. If it's this good I can just imagine how good the Baby Reference v2 would be. I know I would definitely want to find out one day...

[nicoludio]

@ hifinutt, yes, they have been positively reviewed.

Do you know how they might be compared to the Bespoke Audio pre amps (understand that the founders used to work with Music First)?

Hi Fi Pig has reviewed products from both companies but, whether intentional or not, don't give an inkling as to which might be "better".

@ VoicesInMyHead, interesting observation. Was the Baby Classic compared to the volume control in the GA?

[hifinutt]

yes I believe the bespoke audio one is based on v1 baby reference . I think they are doing quite well in sales

now jonathan has the v2 out as mentioned . there is an interesting article on passive pre amps by Musgrove from hi fi critic in the mfa news page about 3 articles down here

https://mfaudio.co.uk/latest-news/

[KeithR]

Thanks hifinutt, missed that one.

I looked at the Bespoke, but couldn't justify the high premium over the v2, especially with Jonathan's new transformers. He has been a pleasure to deal with thus far.

I intend to write about my entire system journey over the past six months at some point this summer - there have been many moving parts after a speaker change last year, all for the better.

[hifinutt]

look forward to it and yes jonathan is amazing . his energy and enthusiasm is super . look forward to your thoughts on how it performs

[VoicesInMyHead]

Do you know how they might be compared to the Bespoke Audio pre amps (understand that the founders used to work with Music First)?

Hi Fi Pig has reviewed products from both companies but, whether intentional or not, don't give an inkling as to which might be "better".

I was also very interested in the Bespoke, although, a bit too expensive... but I love the stellar look of it! I don't know if it's ok to post links to other forums, but I personally found this post by Steve Hoffman very interesting, comparing the two.

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/thread...#post-13750944

@ VoicesInMyHead, interesting observation. Was the Baby Classic compared to the volume control in the GA?

Yes. And it was no way bad at all, but the Baby took things to another level.

[hifinutt]

ah thanks for that link . good to read . seems to me the mfa v2 is better for less money !

good to see steves thoughts
if one must have a passive, I think the British Music First Baby Reference passive is a better deal at much less money. I like it it for its strengths at its price. It does a few things that demonstrate an advantage to transformers rather than resistors for volume attenuation. By contrast, the Bespoke, IMO does not particularly make a case for any advantage of a TVC. It sounds very accurate, it is impressive in build quality, but the sound is not what I search for, particularly at its price. It can be described as neutral, and therefore an improvement from preamps that take away from a system's sound. But, other preamps I have heard can also be VERY close to neutral, while still either adding or preserving the audiophile nuances that are so important to us. lovers of fine sound

[VoicesInMyHead]

ah thanks for that link . good to read . seems to me the mfa v2 is better for less money !

I've had no possibility to compare v1 and v2, but after reading everything I could find about the MFA preamps I was pretty clear on that I wanted a Baby Reference v2. I had the possibility to buy both a second hand v1 Classic and a v1 Baby Reference but in the end opted for a v2 Baby Classic instead. Couldn't afford the Reference at this time and it also felt good to support Jonathan and his work by buying from him. I hope to be able to upgrade one day though, but right now I honestly really don't feel the need as it has already slaughtered all my expectations....


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[hifinutt]

just before I had my modwrights I had a copper classic mark 2 . absolutely sweet pre amp . would very happily live it again . have fun

this is my thoughts from a few years back

https://www.rdhworld.co.uk/phpBB3/vi...1&f=11&t=21390

[VoicesInMyHead]

Well, what can I say.. when I bought my Baby Classic I made a deliberate design decision to keep it as minimal as possible with only XLR in/out. Things and requirements always changes though, I should have learned that by now, and eventually I found myself in need of RCA in/out. So, instead of sending the Baby Classic back for retro-fitting what maybe should have been there from the beginning, I decided to upgrade to the Baby Reference...

I'm still waiting for it though, today I heard form Jonathan that the transformers are done, he's just waiting for the case-work to arrive. Exciting times ahead... I can't wait...

[hifinutt]

mmm sounds good , keep us posted

[heihei]

I can't comment on the Music First but have listened extensively to the Bespoke and suspect it will be my pre-amp when I finally decide on my system. It is beautifully built and incredibly transparent, and laid waste to the Vitus SL-103 at 2.5x price.

[hifinutt]

very nicely built but its based on the baby ref v1 so is the v2 better sonically . I would think so .

[VoicesInMyHead]

After waiting for way too long, I finally got my Baby Reference v2 today.... things took longer than expected, but I didn't want to stress Jonathan and here we are today...

As always when connecting new gear I'm worried that I will not be able to hear any difference or that the difference is going to be too subtle to be worth the investment, but I plugged it in and let it play....

My Baby Classic with the v2 transformer was as I've said before already a big step up from using the built in volume control in my DAC. Well, if I thought that jump was big, it's nothing compared to the steps things just took with the absolutely amazing Baby Reference v2.

I could use all superlatives in the world to describe it and still not be sure if it made it justice. I'm very very impressed!

Actually, for some time I have felt that things could sometimes be a bit too harsh sounding, and this is something I have been thinking about how I could address. I did not at all expect the Baby Ref to solve this for me, but it sounds like it did just that! I think the word "analogue" is being overused all the time these days to describe our digital experience, but I'm afraid that's the word I want to use here as well. It's very non-fatiguing, very smooth, very warm and addictive. I just want to keep cranking that volume up!!

As a passive (transformer based) preamp you would expect it to just get out of it's way kind of.... and maybe that's what it does... maybe it allows my DAC and amps to shine even better than they've ever done before. I don't know. I just know that I'm very happy about this purchase. It's not cheap for sure, nobody ever accused it of being cheap, but is it worth the price? That's for everyone's pockets to decide, but right now it feels like one of the best investments I've ever done.

If there is a better sounding preamp out there I DON'T want to know about it.... I'm deeply in LOVE with this one!

[KeithR]

Awesome!

The MF Baby Ref v2 is the best preamp I've ever owned - and yes, I've even tried the ARC Ref 6 in my system. It gets better and better for around a month as the transformers break in - you are in for a treat.

[VoicesInMyHead]

If it gets much better than this then I don't know what I will do....

Quite amazing actually, how much impact a preamp can have on the whole system... and I think what Jonathan is doing with those transformers is something very special indeed, and probably something not everyone can do just like that. A piece of art!

[Showroom Dummies]

Nice to know that it has finally arrived and that you are enjoying it.

How long did you have to wait after placing your order? At least it was worth it in the end

What was the first album that you played?

[VoicesInMyHead]

I don't remember exactly when I ordered it, but it took longer than usual for sure... but I had my Baby Classic during the time so I was in no rush. But now I know what I was missing all this time... hehe... it was definitely worth it though!

I played some various tunes from Malia & Boris Blank, Chromatics, Agnes Obel and the new 2017 remix of Sgt Pepper's "Within You Without You" which sounds absolutely stunning! And then I played the entire album of K.FLAY - Every Where is Some Where.....

I wish I could stay home from work tomorrow and listen to music all day long....

[joeinid]

Glad you guys are loving your Music First Audio preamps. Is the Baby Reference v2 their top of the line?

Is there an option for remote control of volume? I don't see it.


https://mfaudio.co.uk/preamplifiers/

[VoicesInMyHead]

Yes, Baby Ref v2 is top of the line, but remember to order it with remote control option! I also had it a bit custom made to take the high gain of my dac/amps into consideration.

For someone who have tried ”everything”, you should try this one Joe...


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[VoicesInMyHead]

The website is not the best, I guess knowing that a remote control was even an option was thanks to reading alot of reviews etc....


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[joeinid]

I'll be honest, I've looked at these every year for the past several years and would love to hear one. I definitely believe you guys. I trust your ears. And, I love the simplicity as well.

Yes, Baby Ref v2 is top of the line, but remember to order it with remote control option! I also had it a bit custom made to take the high gain of my dac/amps into consideration.

For someone who have tried ”everything”, you should try this one Joe...


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[joeinid]

What options did both of you guys specify?

[KeithR]

Joe - I specified the remote option (which is a little motor that literally moves the volume control inside paired with an apple remote, so 100% outside any signal path) and added a +6db switch which I highly recommend (and is free).

You can also have it wired for additional attenuation steps (default is 2db), but I didn't opt for it. Depends on your listening. I chose the standard RCA/XLR ins and outs - the unit will effectively convert all RCA to balanced signals through the tformer so is a fully balanced device.

The piece is quite the bargain with the GBP exchange rate.

[VoicesInMyHead]

I only specified the remote control option, and then as I had the problem that even the lowest volume step was sometimes too high during evenings I asked Jonathan to do something about that, and he made "special low volume taps" for me... it turned out great!

Originally I wanted to only have one input as I believe less is more, but he talked me out of it and advised me to go with the standard 6 RCA/XLR inputs which I did.

I think the 2db attenuation steps is good enough, I have 1db on my Lampi in 64 steps and it's a heck of a lot of volume knob turning...

He can probably do more or less what you want if you have some special need, but I don't think he really offer options from a list to pick from....

I went for black case with grey front. I have really started to appreciate the simple and clean look. All my gear... Lampi, Jobs and MFA is somewhat similar in it's "industrial" and "home built" design and I kind of like it... and this almost surprises me a bit because I'm usually VERY picky about design and looks!

[joeinid]

Thank you gentlemen. I appreciate the help.

Joe - I specified the remote option (which is a little motor that literally moves the volume control inside paired with an apple remote, so 100% outside any signal path) and added a +6db switch which I highly recommend (and is free).

You can also have it wired for additional attenuation steps (default is 2db), but I didn't opt for it. Depends on your listening. I chose the standard RCA/XLR ins and outs - the unit will effectively convert all RCA to balanced signals through the tformer so is a fully balanced device.

The piece is quite the bargain with the GBP exchange rate.

I only specified the remote control option, and then as I had the problem that even the lowest volume step was sometimes too high during evenings I asked Jonathan to do something about that, and he made "special low volume taps" for me... it turned out great!

Originally I wanted to only have one input as I believe less is more, but he talked me out of it and advised me to go with the standard 6 RCA/XLR inputs which I did.

I think the 2db attenuation steps is good enough, I have 1db on my Lampi in 64 steps and it's a heck of a lot of volume knob turning...

He can probably do more or less what you want if you have some special need, but I don't think he really offer options from a list to pick from....

I went for black case with grey front. I have really started to appreciate the simple and clean look. All my gear... Lampi, Jobs and MFA is somewhat similar in it's "industrial" and "home built" design and I kind of like it... and this almost surprises me a bit because I'm usually VERY picky about design and looks!

[VoicesInMyHead]

Thank you gentlemen. I appreciate the help.

So, what color did you order?

[joeinid]

Still researching and have a few pieces that I am trying to unload. Probably silver but still thinking options.

So, what color did you order?

[VoicesInMyHead]

Hehe, you do what you have to do, and don't rush into anything... but I seriously cannot recommend the BRv2 enough, and maybe especially to you of all people with all your gear and constant urge to try things or move things around... I'm confident that it will be a great partner to all of your toys and I even think it will allow you to re-discover many of them and see them in a new light.

I really think you ought to try this one if anything and I would love to hear your thoughts about it. I read all the reviews and comments on forums a hundred times, I hesitated about the money, I started "cheap" with the Baby Classic thinking how much better can things get, and while it was great, things literally took off to another level with the BRv2, just as I had read it would, but didn't quite believe until I heard it myself. It also comes packaged in a very nice black flight case, but unfortunately I was too impatient to remember to take any unboxing pictures...

[VoicesInMyHead]

... and if you don't like it, you could always blame me for spending $7500 (or whatever it will be)... and I will tell you that you shouldn't listen to strangers on the Internet...

[joeinid]

Ha!

I've been reading a lot too and I have to say, not a single bad word. Very impressive when people find it easy to knock something.


I can only imagine how great it sounds with the Job monos. Probably a perfect complement.


I see the +6db switch as an option. I am not sure I understand its purpose. I do a lot of listening late night and predominately low to med level. Is there enough range on the bottom to get the right level? I'd probably love small(er) steps for each volume level.

... and if you don't like it, you could always blame me for spending $7500 (or whatever it will be)... and I will tell you that you shouldn't listen to strangers on the Internet...

[KeithR]

I have the blue face plate - looks stunning. Silver is probably the "standard" issue and looks great too.

[KeithR]

Joe - the +6db switch is for ease of mind imo. You can check the output voltage of your source vs. the input of your amps with Jonathan. Its not really a volume thing as much as a gain issue.

You can pay a premium for addtl attenuation steps - 1.5db i believe. I have to say I was very concerned, but have been pleasantly surprised. 2dbs doesn't matter to my ears much, but its a very personal thing. Jason Victor Serinus requires 0.1db steps which I find ludicrous (and anal).

[Mordante]

Can a passive pre amp work with all sources and power amps? Isn't there a chance of impedance mismatch or not enough signal for a power amp etc.

[audio.bill]

Can a passive pre amp work with all sources and power amps? Isn't there a chance of impedance mismatch or not enough signal for a power amp etc.

The simple answer to your first question is no and to the second yes. It can actually get quite involved and hard to predict based upon specifications alone. In general the rule is that the power amp should have an input impedance at least 10 times higher than the source's output impedance. Then there's a matter of having sufficient gain which also involves the efficiency of your speakers. I see that you're also an analog devotee which further complicates matters when it comes to using a passive preamp, since a low output MC cartridge like yours is dependent upon the gain provided by your phono stage as well as the additional gain from the preamp section of your integrated amp. So really the only way to know whether a particular passive preamp is suitable for your system or whether you'd prefer it to an active stage is to try it in your system. I wish there was a simpler answer to your questions but in my experience it's the only way to be sure. Hope this helps!

[Pallen]

I've just taken delivery of an MFA Baby Reference V2, and I'm very taken with it. The sound I'm getting is delightful and musically engaging. So count me in on this particular fan club. I struggle to think of any preamp at a similar price that could match its blend of insight, colour, texture and engagement. I've previously owned 3 Shindo preamps (Aurieges, Monbrison and Masseto) and I loved them all. But with their high gain, they were tricky to match in a system that was not all Shindo. I've listened to EAR, Linear Tube Audio, Modwright 36.5 and the Audio Music AM RT2 Silver Edition preamps. There are many paths to audio nirvana, and I think this route is a good one to check out. Audio Bill makes some very good points above - to make this approach work, you must focus on appropriate impedance matching and ensure you've got adequate gain along your signal chain. If you want a tubed phono stage, that can be tricky, but I found the EAR 88PB phono stage, which has a volume control & plenty of gain on tap, worked well for me at not outrageous cost. I took a toe in the water approach by buying a 2nd hand Django passive at low cost, living with it for a while, and comparing with other active preamps, before committing to the Baby Reference. That said, matching of active preamps with power amps of a different brand can be fraught with challenges also, as I found with Shindo.

[Showroom Dummies]

I have the Classic V2 (which I picked up directly from Jonathan at his business premises) but have just ordered the Baby Reference. Just have to wait a few weeks while it's made.

[hifinutt]

"I've just taken delivery of an MFA Baby Reference V2, and I'm very taken with it. The sound I'm getting is delightful and musically engaging. So count me in on this particular fan club. I struggle to think of any preamp at a similar price that could match its blend of insight, colour, texture and engagement. I've previously owned 3 Shindo preamps (Aurieges, Monbrison and Masseto) and I loved them all. But with their high gain, they were tricky to match in a system that was not all Shindo. I've listened to EAR, Linear Tube Audio, Modwright 36.5 and the Audio Music AM RT2 Silver Edition preamps. There are many paths to audio nirvana, and I think this route is a good one to check out. Audio Bill makes some very good points above - to make this approach work, you must focus on appropriate impedance matching and ensure you've got adequate gain along your signal chain. If you want a tubed phono stage, that can be tricky, but I found the EAR 88PB phono stage, which has a volume control & plenty of gain on tap, worked well for me at not outrageous cost. I took a toe in the water approach by buying a 2nd hand Django passive at low cost, living with it for a while, and comparing with other active preamps, before committing to the Baby Reference. That said, matching of active preamps with power amps of a different brand can be fraught with challenges also, as I found with Shindo."








ah so pleased you could get one . i had the v1 baby ref and compared it at same time to the arc ref 5se and at half the price it was not half the performance . i was in a shop the other day in london where they had the bespoke pre which is basically the baby ref v1 at 2-3 times the cost

i have just finished 3 years of modwright[ i box and 2 box version] pre ownership and find they have a slightly difference midrange presentaion to the mfa but i would have a copper classic mark 2 back any day as its an amazing amp

[VoicesInMyHead]

Congrats to your new amazing preamp... I'm sorry to say that I'm considering finding a new home for my precious, but not because I don't like it, quite the contrary, I love it! I'm thinking about scaling down to an integrated solution, but this BRv2 preamp is also what's holding me back, both for financial reasons (I need to sell it before I can move on), but also from a sound perspective. The BRv2 has really raised the bar in my system, and it's not going to be easy to find something on the same level I think, especially not for an integrated. We'll see how that goes....