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Thread: Do Sub Stands make a difference?
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June 25, 2015, 09:49 PM #1
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Do Sub Stands make a difference?
I have a pair of JL 113. I am considering Sound anchor stands. Do you think they will make a difference. They are certainly good looking.
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June 25, 2015, 09:58 PM #2
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Re: Do Sub Stands make a difference?
Would something like this work just as well for a whole lot less?
Auralex SubDude II | Sweetwater.com
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June 26, 2015, 12:03 AM #3
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Re: Do Sub Stands make a difference?
Thanks
I have used that product before. I'm looking for something more heavy duty.
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June 26, 2015, 12:44 AM #4
Re: Do Sub Stands make a difference?
Big B.......I have my JL Audio Fathom f113 on a Sound Anchor stand. It provides a rock solid and heavy base for the Fathom and I noticed an improvement in the tonality and fullness of the subwoofer once it was elevated. It makes a fine stand and gets the subwoofer out of the way of the vacuum cleaner, too. Don't stub your toe on the Sound Anchor stand. Ask me how I know...
Dan
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June 26, 2015, 12:51 AM #5
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Re: Do Sub Stands make a difference?
^^^^^ Totally agree except I haven't tried the jug combination.
Speakeasy
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June 26, 2015, 12:54 AM #6
Re: Do Sub Stands make a difference?
i would highly recommend Sound Anchor, it made a huge difference in my system..
Dewey,
"If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking." - George S. Patton
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June 26, 2015, 06:52 AM #7
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June 26, 2015, 07:24 AM #8
Re: Do Sub Stands make a difference?
I found just getting it up off the floor was an improvement and I am sure a more solid bass than I am using now would be better. I originally had it on a stone slab on tennis balls, with sorbothane under the feet and that was decent. When I ended up with an extra VTI shelf, I utilized that. Yhis is an older pic and sub is in a different spot now.
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Brian
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June 26, 2015, 07:51 AM #9
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Re: Do Sub Stands make a difference?
I'm sure there is some advantage to the isolation a good stand will provide, but with the subs a major benefit is getting the driver(s) further away from the floor. Just as with the walls and ceiling, there is interaction between the driver and the floor - being very close to any of these will augment the bass but at the expense of some boominess and or uneven bass at the listening positions.
Howard
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June 26, 2015, 10:29 AM #10
Re: Do Sub Stands make a difference?
http://www.harman.com/EN-US/OurCompa...s/multsubs.pdf
http://www.harman.com/EN-US/OurCompa...ndRoomsPt3.pdf
Another take on smooth in room bass response: Double Bass Array (DBA) - The modern bass concept! - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews and a wild implementation of it: FoLLgoTT's build: 18 x Peerless XXLS12 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
2 Channel: Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE, Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2, Manley Mahi Monoblocks, DIY SEOS Waveguide/Dipole Bass Towers
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June 26, 2015, 11:07 AM #11
Re: Do Sub Stands make a difference?
Another option
| Acoustic Sciences CorporationRob
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June 26, 2015, 01:26 PM #12
Re: Do Sub Stands make a difference?
________________________________
Len
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http://systems.audiogon.com/systems/5013
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June 26, 2015, 01:37 PM #13
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Re: Do Sub Stands make a difference?
Speakeasy
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June 26, 2015, 01:49 PM #14
Re: Do Sub Stands make a difference?
I've heard great improvements in sub texture and tonality when raising them off the floor. If it is front firing then getting it a foot or so high works. If it is down firing then just turning it over to fire up works (but I would suggest putting a board on those upturned feet with something heavy on it (mimic's the floor and the intended opening).
Note, you may have to turn it up a wee bit louder when doing this.Vine, Vide, Velcro - I came, I saw, I stuck around.
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June 26, 2015, 04:42 PM #15
Re: Do Sub Stands make a difference?
I did this with my F113 pair, the foam isn't stiff enough to resist the crushing weight of the F113. It was a nice try.
-break-
The Sound Anchors look good, though it's best just to say it lifts them up and keeps them off the floor (for a variety of reason). There would have to be some good testing done w/ and without the stands. Still Double-D has sound judgement, buy them like he did- you can only be sure after you did.
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June 26, 2015, 10:53 PM #16
"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
2 Channel: Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE, Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2, Manley Mahi Monoblocks, DIY SEOS Waveguide/Dipole Bass Towers
HT: Marantz AV7005, Wyred 4 MMC5, DIY SEOS Towers, DIY 7CF Sealed 18" Subs
PC: Wyred 4 Sound mINT, KEF Q100, Hifiman HE-6
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June 27, 2015, 01:57 AM #17
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Re: Do Sub Stands make a difference?
Thanks for the feedback much much appreciated.
I'm satisfied I will pull the trigger in the morning.
Barry
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July 1, 2015, 01:30 AM #18
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Re: Do Sub Stands make a difference?
I have a single JL F113 that is sitting on a hardwood floor and it works well. Haven't tried experimenting with lifting if off the floor. JL is in the business of making and selling subwoofers, maybe a leader in their field especially with car audio. My question is why would a manufacturer design their subwoofer to sit on the floor if raising it a bit (e.g. by designing a taller enclosure) would improve its performance as others have stated. Of course, everyone's particular listening room will have different responses to these adjustments. Not supporting or denying that Sound Anchors makes a difference. Just wondering why JL didn't think of it first. Any thoughts?
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July 1, 2015, 01:40 AM #19
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Re: Do Sub Stands make a difference?
Lem321....I would say cost and logistics. Those Sound Anchor stands are very heavy and nearly weigh as much as the subs themselves.
Speakeasy
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July 3, 2015, 08:41 AM #20
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Re: Do Sub Stands make a difference?
The sub should be closer to the floor. The further off the floor it gets, the more likely you will get a "floor bounce"; SBIR cancellation from floor. Of course, it all depends on how far the sub is from seated position. But as a general rule, bass drivers should be closer to the floor.
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July 3, 2015, 08:55 AM #21
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Re: Do Sub Stands make a difference?
I also have a pair of jl f113 subs. I've considered getting these Primacoustic recoil stabilizers.
Primacoustic Acoustic Solutions
the rx20 is rated to 140lbs. The JL is 115lbs.
http://www.primacoustic.com/recoil-specs.htm
These look like they are engineered well. They have a thick steal plate on top and some kind of thick soft material below the plate. They are also not that high off the ground.
I do think it should be easy to measure the sub's impulse with and without in REW. Even though it's a big hump, there should be some kind of difference. Whether it's an improvement, I dunno.
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July 3, 2015, 08:05 PM #22
"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
2 Channel: Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE, Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2, Manley Mahi Monoblocks, DIY SEOS Waveguide/Dipole Bass Towers
HT: Marantz AV7005, Wyred 4 MMC5, DIY SEOS Towers, DIY 7CF Sealed 18" Subs
PC: Wyred 4 Sound mINT, KEF Q100, Hifiman HE-6
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July 3, 2015, 09:16 PM #23
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Re: Do Sub Stands make a difference?
I would argue that it would depend on the room boundary type and volume level. There is no Allison Effect on a raised timber floor but there is on a concrete slab. Nothwithstanding, the F113 has room equalisation and phase control which would go along way to negate any significant Allison cancellation.
Speakeasy
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July 5, 2015, 05:34 PM #24
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Re: Do Sub Stands make a difference?
Big B
Could these work as an alternative?
Adona Audioacks
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July 5, 2015, 11:54 PM #25
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Re: Do Sub Stands make a difference?
I need a better handle on what this Allison Effect is. I'm on a concrete slab.
QUOTE=Steve;134906]I would argue that it would depend on the room boundary type and volume level. There is no Allison Effect on a raised timber floor but there is on a concrete slab. Nothwithstanding, the F113 has room equalisation and phase control which would go along way to negate any significant Allison cancellation.[/QUOTE]
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July 6, 2015, 02:59 AM #26
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Re: Do Sub Stands make a difference?
Allison Effect is not affected by stands?
The Allison Effect will take place with or without stands?
I'm on a concrete slab.
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July 6, 2015, 05:40 AM #27
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Re: Do Sub Stands make a difference?
OK I'll have a stab... It will still take place regardless but I believe that raising the sub off a concrete slab would help especially at lower volume levels.
There is less of an Allison Effect with a sub on stands on a raised timber floor given an air space underneath.
It depends on the amplitude of the low frequency sound wave. Lower frequency travels further and through objects more easily, the amount of reflection depends on the modulated frequency and the density of the object in the path.
The degree of diffraction and reflection will depend on the empty (air) space (including underneath) eg. a raised timber floor before the next (denser) object is hit.
You will definitely get more reflection/diffraction on a concrete slab because of the concrete's greater damping coefficient. Although sound can still travel through it and the earth and annoy your neighbours next door if your sub is pushing huge waveforms.
Speakeasy
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July 6, 2015, 10:51 PM #28
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Re: Do Sub Stands make a difference?
The formula is explained here:
What is Speaker Boundary Interference? - Acoustic Frontiers
Generally, the closer the speaker is to the boundary, the higher the cancellation frequency. In the case of a sub, when its on the floor, the cancellation frequency is a non-issue. Of course, one needs to know seated position too. But in almost all setups this is true.
IOW, the further off the floor the sub gets, the lower the cancellation frequency. The only way to know for sure is to use the above formula.
Wood, Concrete and Sheetrock all reflect low frequencies. Of course, concrete is the most effective. But any solid barrier will reflect low frequencies.
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July 7, 2015, 01:18 AM #29
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Re: Do Sub Stands make a difference?
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Thank you for making me feel less tech challenged.:whew: FYI, The 866 works great as a straight, no nonsense integrated with DAC.
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