McIntosh amps - RCA vs XLR? ...

[joeinid]

Have you (anyone) compared McIntosh amps via RCA vs XLR? I have not noticed much, if any difference, running McIntosh amps via RCA vs XLR for shorter runs. I think the quality of the preamp makes more of a difference than the connection type. Any thoughts on this?

[jdandy]

Have you (anyone) compared McIntosh amps via RCA vs XLR? I have not noticed much, if any difference, running McIntosh amps via RCA vs XLR for shorter runs. I think the quality of the preamp makes more of a difference than the connection type. Any thoughts on this?

Joe.......Yes, I have made this comparison multiple times with a number of different McIntosh components, C2200, C2300, MCD500, MC352, and MC501's. I compared Wireworld unbalanced Silver Eclipse and balanced Silver Eclipse cables. The unbalanced cables were 2 meters and the balanced cables were 2 meters. Quite honestly I heard no difference between unbalanced and balanced cables between the MCD500 and either preamp I tried the experiment on. I did notice a very slight improvement in the air around instruments and voices with the balanced cables between both preamps and both power amplifiers. I attributed this to a decrease in the noise floor with the balanced cables feeding the amps. The testing certainly wasn't scientific, just me listening over hours then swapping cables and playing the same music again.

The choice for cabling my sound systems is balanced because I prefer the more robust connections balanced cables provide and the noise cancelling properties balanced cables deliver by design. I know there are some manufacturers who shun balanced connections on their products in favor of unbalanced connections and owners who also prefer unbalanced connections even when they have a choice. That's part of the joy we all find in this great hobby. Choice is good.

[joeinid]

Thank you Dan. Makes perfect sense and I appreciate your opinion.

[Sean]

Bringing this one back to life to aggregate info for folks in the future - in the case of the unbalanced components like the MA-252, which I believe does not have balanced circuitry, do balanced cables to the preamp section pay dividends (lower noise)?

Based on Dan's findings, my question here may be moot as he noticed no discernible difference between XLR and RCA cables prior to the preamp...but I am still curious. My guess would then be that Mac includes a pair of XLR inputs purely to allow for a wider variety of sources.

[jdandy]

Sean.......I appreciate the great minds that have created state of the art audio gear, be it fully balanced circuit topology or open ended. There is a great selection of gear in both camps. It is important to understand balanced interconnects are not the same subject as balanced circuit topology in amplifiers, preamplifiers, and source components.

All wire, no matter the length, acts as an antenna. Whether it is one meter, ten meters or more, wire absorbs electrical energy from the atmosphere. There is more electrical energy in the atmosphere today than ever before. We live in an electrical energy soup. Radio frequency interference (RFI) and electrical magnetic interference (EMI) are real and detrimental issues. Not only will RFI and EMI impact the purity of background silence in an audio component, the same electrical interferences will impact how circuits operates. RFI and EMI generate constant fluctuating voltages across a wide range of frequencies. This never ending bombardment of interference on interconnects is transmitted backward and forward into our gear. Again, the length of the cable is irrelevant since all wire lengths act as antennas. A perfect example of this is the simple T shaped dipole antenna used by many FM radio listeners on their tuners. It is just a length of wire, but most certainly absorbs and transmits electrical energy to a tuner's antenna input. Fortunately for a tuner, it wants this electrical energy, but other equipment has no use for it.

A primary advantage of a balanced audio interconnect is its ability to cancel RFI and EMI energy induced on the wire through phase inversion on the hot and cold signal wires. When the out of phase signals are recombined RFI and EMI energy is totally canceled. In addition, the shielding on a balanced interconnect helps to further reduce RFI and EMI energy from reaching the signal wires by absorbing the electrical energy in its woven shield and shunting this energy to ground. This is why balanced interconnects are nearly 100% immune to having 50/60 cycle AC hum induced into the audio signal path. The pros know this and that is why balanced cables are the primary choice for critical audio applications.

My personal experience with unbalanced audio interconnects has been hit and miss. I use unbalanced interconnects on certain gear and always have to pay particular attention to where the interconnects are routed, always attempting to avoid being parallel to any AC power cords. This can be very difficult to achieve. I have had 60 cycle hum issues many times from not properly dressing unbalanced interconnects away from AC power cords. I have had zero issues using balanced interconnects in parallel runs with AC power cords. Any induction from an AC power cord into the audio signal's wire gets canceled when the out of phase hot and cold signals are combined. It is this advantage that drives my desire to use balanced audio interconnects whenever possible, even on short runs. The combination of high quality shielding and balanced interconnect signal wires help keep the overall signal to noise ratio of my audio systems at a maximum. I also believe the circuits in source components, preamplifiers, and power amplifiers are able to more faithfully reproduce audio signals when they are less likely to have to deal with the adverse electrical forces of RFI and EMI being injected into their circuits.

My final point is about the connectors. An RCA connector makes an inferior connection when compared to a XLR connection. If you plug and unplug RCA connectors very often, and what audio enthusiast doesn't, the connectors become worn and loose, the connector and RCA plug gold plating becomes scored and worn. Balanced XLR connectors are designed to allow continuous use and the best ones offer locking capabilities to ensure no accidental disconnects while the equipment is energized.

Ultimately it is the end user who makes the decision about what type of interconnects to use. I don't condemn the use of unbalance interconnects or equipment designed to use unbalanced interconnects. There are electrical engineers designing fabulous gear that embraces both concepts. I use unbalanced interconnects when I don't have an option, but my preference is to take advantage of the noise cancelling properties of balanced interconnects and superior connections whenever possible.

[PMCH]

I have used RCA cables to my old C2300 before I had the cables switched to XLR's and couldn't really hear any differences with the same cables. I did notice a big difference in sound quality with using better cables - not the connection. I do use all XLR's now to keep my system balanced all the way though and I do like the click connection of XLR's.

[Sean]

Dan, thank you for taking me back to school on this one. As I was reading, some of the bits regarding XLR’s (“bad”) energy-cancellation properties were coming back to me (I’ve been out of the game for a bit). Your explanation was tremendously understandable and, just as important, so educational and helpful.

I love learning more about this crazy thing of ours. Posts like yours keep me coming back with great eagerness. Many thanks, kind sir.

Looks like I’ll be aiming for balanced IC’s. You deserve kick-backs of some sort.

Sean.......I appreciate the great minds that have created state of the art audio gear, be it fully balanced circuit topology or open ended. There is a great selection of gear in both camps. It is important to understand balanced interconnects are not the same subject as balanced circuit topology in amplifiers, preamplifiers, and source components.

All wire, no matter the length, acts as an antenna. Whether it is one meter, ten meters or more, wire absorbs electrical energy from the atmosphere. There is more electrical energy in the atmosphere today than ever before. We live in an electrical energy soup. Radio frequency interference (RFI) and electrical magnetic interference (EMI) are real and detrimental issues. Not only will RFI and EMI impact the purity of background silence in an audio component, the same electrical interferences will impact how circuits operates. RFI and EMI generate constant fluctuating voltages across a wide range of frequencies. This never ending bombardment of interference on interconnects is transmitted backward and forward into our gear. Again, the length of the cable is irrelevant since all wire lengths act as antennas. A perfect example of this is the simple T shaped dipole antenna used by many FM radio listeners on their tuners. It is just a length of wire, but most certainly absorbs and transmits electrical energy to a tuner's antenna input. Fortunately for a tuner, it wants this electrical energy, but other equipment has no use for it.

A primary advantage of a balanced audio interconnect is its ability to cancel RFI and EMI energy induced on the wire through phase inversion on the hot and cold signal wires. When the out of phase signals are recombined RFI and EMI energy is totally canceled. In addition, the shielding on a balanced interconnect helps to further reduce RFI and EMI energy from reaching the signal wires by absorbing the electrical energy in its woven shield and shunting this energy to ground. This is why balanced interconnects are nearly 100% immune to having 50/60 cycle AC hum induced into the audio signal path. The pros know this and that is why balanced cables are the primary choice for critical audio applications.

My personal experience with unbalanced audio interconnects has been hit and miss. I use unbalanced interconnects on certain gear and always have to pay particular attention to where the interconnects are routed, always attempting to avoid being parallel to any AC power cords. This can be very difficult to achieve. I have had 60 cycle hum issues many times from not properly dressing unbalanced interconnects away from AC power cords. I have had zero issues using balanced interconnects in parallel runs with AC power cords. Any induction from an AC power cord into the audio signal's wire gets canceled when the out of phase hot and cold signals are combined. It is this advantage that drives my desire to use balanced audio interconnects whenever possible, even on short runs. The combination of high quality shielding and balanced interconnect signal wires help keep the overall signal to noise ratio of my audio systems at a maximum. I also believe the circuits in source components, preamplifiers, and power amplifiers are able to more faithfully reproduce audio signals when they are less likely to have to deal with the adverse electrical forces of RFI and EMI being injected into their circuits.

My final point is about the connectors. An RCA connector makes an inferior connection when compared to a XLR connection. If you plug and unplug RCA connectors very often, and what audio enthusiast doesn't, the connectors become worn and loose, the connector and RCA plug gold plating becomes scored and worn. Balanced XLR connectors are designed to allow continuous use and the best ones offer locking capabilities to ensure no accidental disconnects while the equipment is energized.

Ultimately it is the end user who makes the decision about what type of interconnects to use. I don't condemn the use of unbalance interconnects or equipment designed to use unbalanced interconnects. There are electrical engineers designing fabulous gear that embraces both concepts. I use unbalanced interconnects when I don't have an option, but my preference is to take advantage of the noise cancelling properties of balanced interconnects and superior connections whenever possible.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sean]

Great to hear your findings, Paul. Looks like balanced IC’s on Mac gear can only have neutral-to-positive results with no unique downsides of their own (outside of some higher pricing in some cases).

I have used RCA cables to my old C2300 before I had the cables switched to XLR's and couldn't really hear any differences with the same cables. I did notice a big difference in sound quality with using better cables - not the connection. I do use all XLR's now to keep my system balanced all the way though and I do like the click connection of XLR's.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Speedskater]

While I think that Dan over-stated the case, for cables longer than 10 feet (3 meters) a balanced interconnect system is the way to go.
We should note the an unbalanced RCA interconnect system can be very RFI resistant, but many audio products are poorly designed in this regard.
The other really big problem with longer RCA interconnect cables is Common Impedance Coupling noise.

[jdandy]

While I think that Dan over-stated the case, for cables longer than 10 feet (3 meters) a balanced interconnect system is the way to go.
We should note the an unbalanced RCA interconnect system can be very RFI resistant, but many audio products are poorly designed in this regard.
The other really big problem with longer RCA interconnect cables is Common Impedance Coupling noise.

Speedskater.......Can you be more specific about where I overstated the case? How about making a case that supports your comment.

Granted, there are some excellent open ended interconnects with quality shielding schemes and gripping connectors, but in the end these cables will not have the lower noise levels delivered by a well designed and shielded balanced cable. The notion that to reap the advantages provided by balanced cables they must be longer runs is not true, either. Certainly there is more opportunity for noise to be introduced into a longer cable run, but short runs are equally susceptible to RFI and EMI being induced into a length of wire. Whether that induction is serious enough to be an audible issue is another story, but any noise in the inverted singles on the hot and cold conductors of a balanced cable when combined at the output become completely nulled. The same cannot be said for an unbalanced open ended interconnect no matter how well it is designed and constructed, or its length.

[Speedskater]

Speedskater.......Can you be more specific about where I overstated the case? How about making a case that supports your comment........................................... ...

It's the second paragraph that as so many errors.

[jdandy]

Speedskater.......Obviously we have an entirely different understanding for the meaning of specific if that's the extent of your rebuttal? .

[Speedskater]

OK:
All wire, no matter the length, acts as an antenna. Whether it is one meter, ten meters or more, wire absorbs electrical energy from the atmosphere. There is more electrical energy in the atmosphere today than ever before............................. Again, the length of the cable is irrelevant since all wire lengths act as antennas. A perfect example of this is the simple T shaped dipole antenna used by many FM radio listeners on their tuners. It is just a length of wire, but most certainly absorbs and transmits electrical energy to a tuner's antenna input. Fortunately for a tuner, it wants this electrical energy, but other equipment has no use for it.

The length is the most important part of an antenna! Different length wires are good antennas at different frequencies.
But the reason for interconnect cables having a shield is to block interference! A well designed interconnect system does not act as an interference antenna.

But we should note that a lot of audiophile equipment does not have a well designed interconnect system! And that includes some XLR units.