Harbeth 40.2 Announced at Munich

**Mike** · May 14, 2015, 08:24 AM

Successor to the BBC’s old LS5/8 monitor loudspeaker, Harbeth’s new incarnation launched at the Munich High End has improvements on all fronts over the 1970s’ two-way and said to be a significant upgrade to the Monitor 40.1 model.

“The three-way Monitor 40 solved the inadequacies of that old BBC model, which attempted to force a 12-inch polypropylene bass unit to behave as a midrange as well.” says Harbeth’s Alan Shaw, “An idea doomed from the start; no wonder BBC engineers struggled with the LS5/8’s weird sonic balance.”

The Harbeth design has now been upgraded to a new generation with a totally revised crossover and increased sensitivity.

“The M40.2 is more sensitive, more efficient, works with small amplifiers, has greater power handing, creates a more open and transparent sound – its three drive units are perfectly integrated and the whole experience even more engaging and, as always, sweet and clean”, adds Alan Shaw.

Therefore, the new model is as happy in both broadcast studios and home listening rooms, straight out of the carton. All this thanks to a ground-up redesign of the crossover network, using the latest software simulation tools and measuring systems. Production is due to begin shortly at Harbeth’s Sussex factory. The expected UK retail price will be around £12,000 ($19,000 USD) for cherry veneer.

The new model is on display at the Harbeth stand in Munich (Hall 3, F12) where a new, bespoke range of Bavarian-designed and built stands will also be unveiled.

**MDP** · May 14, 2015, 09:07 AM

I hope Joe doesn't see this

**Paul** · May 14, 2015, 09:22 AM

Cool. Thanks for share

**dlb2** · May 14, 2015, 09:39 AM

Sounds like they really upped the ante on this model. Thanks Mike.

**joeinid** · May 14, 2015, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by MDP

I hope Joe doesn't see this

Too late

**BruceLet** · May 14, 2015, 10:07 AM

GLWS

**joeinid** · May 14, 2015, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by BruceLet

GLWS

**Paul** · May 14, 2015, 10:33 AM

If im in the market for Harbeth I would grab Joes pair in a heart beat. Its barely break in and beautiful rosewood for less than half price of new one and they look the same.

**joeinid** · May 14, 2015, 10:40 AM

Thank you Paul, I agree. I don't plan on replacing them because I have my Strads.

**KeithR** · May 14, 2015, 10:51 AM

hefty price increase, too.

**Paul** · May 14, 2015, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by KeithR

hefty price increase, too.

Yup..I noticed that too.

**jdandy** · May 14, 2015, 12:46 PM

Mike.......The new Harbeth M40.2 does look good. Harbeth always seems to get a lot of praise from owners. Harbeth is one speaker manufacturer I have never auditioned.

**Ritmo** · May 14, 2015, 07:02 PM

Dan - I've never heard the 40.1s but I've heard the 30.1s. These are the smaller siblings to the 40.Xs. A great speaker for a smaller rooms...sounds fantastic with jazz, small ensembles.

**Mike** · May 14, 2015, 07:20 PM

I've heard the 30.1's, 40.1's and Super HL5+'s. I love them all. My fav is probably the Super HL5+ for normal sized rooms (example 13 x 19). and 40.1's for big ass rooms (18 x 27 for example). 30.1's are great for small rooms (11 x 13 for example).

They won't impress the left-brainers due to their lack of diamond, aluminum, carbon fiber and whatever else, but they will thrill the music lover.

**Bodhi** · May 14, 2015, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

They won't impress the left-brainers due to their lack of diamond, aluminum, carbon fiber and whatever else, but they will thrill the music lover.

Hey, I heard that!

**a.wayne** · May 14, 2015, 07:56 PM

Do most Harbeth Owners use tubes or SS .........?

**bthomas9** · May 14, 2015, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

They won't impress the left-brainers due to their lack of diamond, aluminum, carbon fiber and whatever else, but they will thrill the music lover.

Did you have to start that again Mike :p

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**Mike** · May 14, 2015, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by bthomas9

Did you have to start that again Mike :p

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**Paul** · May 14, 2015, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by a.wayne

Do most Harbeth Owners use tubes or SS .........?

I used to own every Harbeth models PS3ER, Compact 7ES2 and 3 , SHL5 ,M30 and M40.1 always preferred Tube amp over the SS.

**joeinid** · May 14, 2015, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by a.wayne

Do most Harbeth Owners use tubes or SS .........?

My advice? It depends if you prefer tubes over SS. I feel both can be excellent. My Devialet is amazing on my 40.1's as was my Hegel H30. I do "prefer" my GAT/ART above all else but moderate to higher powered tubes are glorious. My LM219IA was stunning but I feel a little underpowered. If the Lampizator 211 SET amp at 100wpc arrives soon, I feel it will be stunning on any Harbeth. Having slightly more power vs not enough is very much preferred.

**Paul** · May 14, 2015, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by joeinid

If the Lampizator 211 SET amp at 100wpc arrives soon, I feel it will be stunning on any Harbeth. Having slightly more power vs not enough is very much preferred.

Can't wait to hear your impression Joe.

Yes I agree with Joe. The Harbeth needs some power to make them sing.

**Paul** · May 14, 2015, 10:22 PM

http://www.harbeth.co.uk/library/pr/nl62.pdf

**CDLehner** · May 18, 2015, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by joeinid

My advice? It depends if you prefer tubes over SS. I feel both can be excellent. My Devialet is amazing on my 40.1's as was my Hegel H30. I do "prefer" my GAT/ART above all else but moderate to higher powered tubes are glorious. My LM219IA was stunning but I feel a little underpowered. If the Lampizator 211 SET amp at 100wpc arrives soon, I feel it will be stunning on any Harbeth. Having slightly more power vs not enough is very much preferred.

+1. The Harbies I've owned...3s, 7s, and 30.1s; were rich and warm. So OT1H, you can supplement that warmth...with luscious tubes.

OTOH...you can contrast it, with some clean SS power. Either way...as Mike said; it's a music lover's speaker...as opposed to a gear lover's.

Put another way...it won't impress, anyone but YOU

**KeithR** · May 18, 2015, 05:10 PM

I think Ayre would be a great match.

**joeinid** · May 18, 2015, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by KeithR

I think Ayre would be a great match.

Totally agree. My Hegel H30 was awesome on the 40.1 with the right preamp.

**Mike** · May 18, 2015, 07:43 PM

Simple answer: the M40.1 was an absolute bargain. The planning of the M40.2 instigated a full re-costing of the model, and we got the shock of our lives when the total cost was rolled up. There had been a costing error in the Bill of Materials, persisting for many years, and once this was corrected, the true cost of making the 40.1/40.2 was exposed.

So: if you can get your hands on an M40.1 and you are on a careful budget, now is a very good time. We are still building M40.1 and are likely to do so for some months yet for customers who are entirely satisfied with the M40.1 at its price point.
Alan A. Shaw
Designer, owner
Harbeth Audio UK

http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/s...4751#post34751

**Jerome W** · May 19, 2015, 12:52 AM

Originally Posted by joeinid

Too late

Joe....
40.1 owners will be able to upgrade their speakers to the 40.2. It is just the filter to be changed. This was the information I got from Harbeth. But they added " in theory".

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**Jerome W** · May 19, 2015, 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by a.wayne

Do most Harbeth Owners use tubes or SS .........?

I use both.
SS : Nagra MSA.
Tubes : Shindo CCQ.
Preamps are the Shindo Giscours for both amps and I also use an Electrocompaniet EC4.6 with the MSA.
The Harbeth 40.1 is highly revealing so I really get very different flavors with my amps and preamps.

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**Paul** · May 19, 2015, 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by Jerome W

I use both.
SS : Nagra MSA.
Tubes : Shindo CCQ.
Preamps are the Shindo Giscours for both amps and I also use an Electrocompaniet EC4.6 with the MSA.
The Harbeth 40.1 is highly revealing so I really get very different flavors with my amps and preamps.

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What happen to your french tube amps ? ( sorry cant remember the name )

**Jerome W** · May 19, 2015, 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by Paul

What happen to your french tube amps ? ( sorry cant remember the name )

Very simple :
- No one seems to be interested in the CCQs
- I listened again to them with various music and understood again why I felt in love with them.
- The Halgorythme amps are probably a better match with my 40.1, but I do not need 2 sets of tube monoblocks. The CCQs are fabulous at low volume on the 40.1. They fill the room with an incredible weight and presence. So if I do not sell them, I keep them and I am as happy as a king.

Paul, it goes with hifi like with women. You can always find "better" if you look for it.
But "better" at first glance will reveal to be only "different" with time.

I stopped comparing. I enjoy what I have.
I will listen to the 40.2 new filter, just because basically we are talking probably of an other flavor of the same speaker. Only a filter change.
And I will "upgrade" if the differences are really an upgrade. If the treble becomes bright and aggressive like the SHL5, I will keep my 40.1 as they are !

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**Paul** · May 19, 2015, 01:34 AM

Originally Posted by Jerome W

I stopped comparing. I enjoy what I have.

Best thing !

**joeinid** · May 19, 2015, 01:37 AM

Originally Posted by Jerome W

Joe....
40.1 owners will be able to upgrade their speakers to the 40.2. It is just the filter to be changed. This was the information I got from Harbeth. But they added " in theory".

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Hi Jerome,

Really? I did not see that anywhere. Do they have to go back to Harbeth or can the local distributor do the upgrade?

**Jerome W** · May 19, 2015, 01:39 AM

Originally Posted by joeinid

Hi Jerome,

Really? I did not see that anywhere. Do they have to go back to Harbeth or can the local distributor do the upgrade?

Hi Joe,
Local distributor should be able to desolder and resolder a filter, I guess.
I got this information directly from the Harbeth FB page.

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**joeinid** · May 19, 2015, 01:42 AM

Originally Posted by Jerome W

Hi Joe,
Local distributor should be able to desolder and resolder a filter, I guess.
I got this information directly from the Harbeth FB page.

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Awesome! I'm looking for it now. Thank you!

**Jerome W** · May 19, 2015, 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by joeinid

Awesome! I'm looking for it now. Thank you!

Look in the comments. That is the reply to a question I asked. My FB pseudo is Jer Wa

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**Bodhi** · May 19, 2015, 10:07 AM

Joe, I noticed Harbeth haven't published the frequency range of the 40.2's on the website. Any idea of the spec?

**joeinid** · May 19, 2015, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by Bodhi

Joe, I noticed Harbeth haven't published the frequency range of the 40.2's on the website. Any idea of the spec?

I'm sure details are coming, they seem to be playing it close to the vest for now.

**Mike** · May 19, 2015, 11:29 AM

Frequency response? LOL.

They make beautiful music. Next question?

All kidding aside, I suspect it hasn't changed much over the 40.1.

**Jerome W** · May 20, 2015, 12:28 AM

The 40.1 only have two problems related to the Harbeth marketing.
1/ you cannot put them on an Ikea table, unless if you listen at peaks of 60dB. They need pretty expensive isolation. In my experience, if you spend less than about 2000 dollars in isolation for them, you are just not able to listen to them as they were built to sound.
2/ they cannot fit in small rooms. Unless once again if you listen at very low volume.

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**kkfan** · May 20, 2015, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by Jerome W

2/ they cannot fit in small rooms. Unless once again if you listen at very low volume.

If I'm not mistaken, the 40.2 has gotten closer to solving that problem.

**Paul** · May 20, 2015, 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by Jerome W

you are just not able to listen to them as they were built to sound.

Really ? I wonder what kind of isolation Allan uses. Not trying against with you but seems little too much.

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**joeinid** · May 20, 2015, 01:12 AM

I agree with Jerome. Better isolation will improve the 40.1's. Alan Shaw does not want to put "limits" on his speakers at the expense of sales. Like anything, a few tweaks are in order to get the most out of them. If Harbeth says "you can only use these speakers under certain situations" and spells it out, how many will automatically look elsewhere for another speaker. Brilliant marketing to say they will work with any amp and any stand. Plug and play.

**Paul** · May 20, 2015, 01:22 AM

If you guys know about the BBC style thin-wall cabinet philosophy. have to be very careful with isolation if you want to hear what they meant to be heard. Sometime too much is worse than not enough.

**joeinid** · May 20, 2015, 01:28 AM

Originally Posted by Paul

If you guys know about the BBC style thin-wall cabinet philosophy. have to be very careful with isolation if you want to hear what they meant be heard. Sometime too much is worse than not enough.

Totally agree.

**Jerome W** · May 20, 2015, 02:03 AM

Originally Posted by Paul

If you guys know about the BBC style thin-wall cabinet philosophy. have to be very careful with isolation if you want to hear what they meant to be heard. Sometime too much is worse than not enough.

The speaker vibrates. That is fine and the BBC concept is all about that.
But big vibes like the ones produced by the 40.1 should not be transmitted to the floor.
Not to mention that the vibes produced in the floor will go back to the drivers.
Look at the pics of how Shaw measures its speakers. Almost suspended in the air, outdoors !
And about Alan's personal set up, if you can show me a pic, I would love it !

Use any kind of stand if you want them to sound poor and with a muddy bass.
As Joe said, the whole point of the Harbeth marketing is to have people think that you can put the speakers anywhere an drive them with anything.

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**joeinid** · May 20, 2015, 02:21 AM

I absolutely love the Harbeth sound though. Jerome, you were 100% correct. Thank you.

**Jerome W** · May 20, 2015, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by joeinid

I absolutely love the Harbeth sound though. Jerome, you were 100% correct. Thank you.

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**Paul** · May 20, 2015, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by Jerome W

The speaker vibrates. That is fine and the BBC concept is all about that.
But big vibes like the ones produced by the 40.1 should not be transmitted to the floor.
Not to mention that the vibes produced in the floor will go back to the drivers.
Look at the pics of how Shaw measures its speakers. Almost suspended in the air, outdoors !
And about Alan's personal set up, if you can show me a pic, I would love it !

Use any kind of stand if you want them to sound poor and with a muddy bass.
As Joe said, the whole point of the Harbeth marketing is to have people think that you can put the speakers anywhere an drive them with anything.

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Trust me Jerome ... I tried every possible stands you could imagine with PS3ER to M40.1 .

Anyway as long as you are happy with your isolation thats all it matters.

**kkfan** · May 20, 2015, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by Paul

Trust me Jerome ... I tried every possible stands you could imagine with PS3ER to M40.1 .

Anyway as long as you are happy with your isolation thats all it matters.

Paul,

In your opinion, which stand works best with 40.1?

**joeinid** · May 20, 2015, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by kkfan

Paul,

In your opinion, which stand works best with 40.1?

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Thread: Harbeth 40.2 Announced at Munich