Harbeth 40.2 Announced at Munich

[kkfan]

Pro Audio Bono » Stands

Looks great!

Do you use them?

[joeinid]

Looks great!

Do you use them?

Jerome does. I don't use them but I am thinking about a pair.

[Jerome W]

Joe,
PAB just released a new stand line custom made for Harbeth speakers. You can see the one made for the SHL5 : last pic, black one.
But the pic is not complete.
The stand is fitted with 4 Antivibration feet ( AVF ) that goes underneath. On the upper platform, 4 Lignofol disks will separate the speaker from its shelf. I tried to put AVF between the upper shelf and the speakers, so that makes 8 x AVF for one speaker. The bass at first became much tighter. But after a week, I found it too dry for my taste. Too damped. It lost some life so I asked Wladek to build just little Lignofol disks and the balance I got from 4 x Lignofol AVF on the floor and 4 x Lignofol disks underneath the speakers was the best I could find.
The platforms are made also from Lignofol, which is a very very dense plywood, extremely difficult to build. In Germany, this material was called "tank wood".
The 4 legs are made from high quality plywood.

I actually had the Skylan stand before and I improved it by using PAB AVF and Lignofol disks. I am very satisfied by the result.
I guess that the PAB stand may be better ( Actually I am SURE it is better ) but I do not plan to buy it now. Although I'm sure that they will replace the Skylan one day.
The french Harbeth importer uses one on the SHL5. He called to say that he was floored by the performance. He will now propose the PAB stands to all his customers.
To Paul :
Stands are important, but the most striking effect comes from decent decoupling from bearing devices like PAB and Stillpoints. Both for lower shelf and ground, and for upper shelf and speaker. No matter the stands you used. Spikes do NOT decouple the speaker.
I am sorry to tell you that if you found the bass of the 40.1 to be not to your taste, chances are very high that you did not decouple the speakers from the ground.
Anyway it does not matter. You now have wonderful speakers that you love so all is good. I am still very grateful to you for the opinions you gave me about Harbeth. I bought mine when you told me that the mids were better than PMC and you were right.


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[Jerome W]

Stand for the SHL5 and pic of two AVF and disks :

Attachment 11337
Attachment 11338
Attachment 11339

[Jerome W]

I never tried Stillpoints under my speakers and gear but one must know that Stillpoints are not ceramic bearings, ceramic balls only, and that's a big difference. According to a friend, ceramic balls would produce a thinner sound, while ceramic bearings are in a complete different league.

[Bodhi]

I never tried Stillpoints under my speakers and gear but one must know that Stillpoints are not ceramic bearings, ceramic balls only, and that's a big difference. According to a friend, ceramic balls would produce a thinner sound, while ceramic bearings are in a complete different league.

Jerome, did your friend a-b compare Stillpoints Ultra feet in his system with PAB products? If not, then it's only speculation..

[Bodhi]

If we're discussing the best stands for Harbeth 40's, it would be remiss not to mention the Acoustic Revive Custom Series stands which Jeff Day was so impressed by in his extended Chronicles of AR products. They would have to be on your short list if you're going all out, though not cheap

[Jerome W]

Jerome, did your friend a-b compare Stillpoints Ultra feet in his system with PAB products? If not, then it's only speculation..

I do not know if he compared them side by side on the same speaker. I will ask him.
I just know that he knows both systems pretty well and he prefers the PAB.
Of course the Stillpoints must be terrific. Or they would not sell them at this price.
But I do not consider them to be the "best" devices just because they are the most expensive ones.

[Jerome W]

If we're discussing the best stands for Harbeth 40's, it would be remiss not to mention the Acoustic Revive Custom Series stands which Jeff Day was so impressed by in his extended Chronicles of AR products. They would have to be on your short list if you're going all out, though not cheap

Same price as the speakers to put upon ?
Utopia !
At least, it shows that great efforts in isolating the 40.1 gives great results.

[Bodhi]

I do not know if he compared them side by side on the same speaker. I will ask him.
I just know that he knows both systems pretty well and he prefers the PAB.
Of course the Stillpoints must be terrific. Or they would not sell them at this price.
But I do not consider them to be the "best" devices just because they are the most expensive ones.

That's fair enough Jerome. The PAB products do look very good. I'd be particularly interested to ask if your friend has tested the new Ultra 6's. Bruce Jacobs told me 3 Ultra 6's sound better than 4 Ultra 5's. My Dealer repeated that test & confirmed they are better. They can be further improved by using the Ultra bases which also add height adjustment.

[joeinid]

Joe, I noticed Harbeth haven't published the frequency range of the 40.2's on the website. Any idea of the spec?

Specifications

Transducer system 3-way vented: 300mm Harbeth bass unit; 200mm RADIAL2™ mid; 25mm Ferro-cooled soft dome tweeter
Freq. response 35Hz-20kHz +/-3dB free-space, grille on, smooth off-axis response
Impedance 6 ohms - easy to drive
Sensitivity 86dB/1W/1m
Amp. suggestion Works with a wide range of amplifiers, ideally from 35W/channel.
Power handling 650W programme
Connector Two 4mm gold-plated binding posts for wires or plugs
Dimensions (hxwxd) 750 x 432 x 388mm (+12mm for grille and binding posts)
Finish Cherry, eucalyptus, rosewood, tiger ebony.
Space needs Ideally free-space away from walls.
Stands To bring ears level with tweeters. (Tweeter: 660mm up from cabinet base)
Weight 38kg each
Packing Single speaker per shipping carton

[Jerome W]

David,

I am not surprised by this.
Vladek from PAB recommends 3 feet and not 4 under electronics. 1 plane of action instead of 4.

As my friend told me, the StillPoints work only by single contact on ceramic balls. There is no bearing. A bearing adds free movement in all planes so we are talking of 2 very different ways of action.
Moreover, the PAB feet can be ordered in various metals, or acrylic, or plywood ( Lignofol). They just released a full ceramic foot that I will try in a few days ( very expensive !). All sound different. Vladek told me that the ceramic ones are the best possible.
How much is the cost of an Ultra 6 ?
( PS: not sure if my friend knows the 6's. ).

[Bodhi]

David,

I am not surprised by this.
Vladek from PAB recommends 3 feet and not 4 under electronics. 1 plane of action instead of 4.

Bruce Jacobs from Stillpoints recommend a mix of 3 and 4 feet depending on the component. 4 feet under the power amp/pre/conditioner, and 3 feet under the cdp, whilst Hans Ole Vitus also recommended using 4 feet under my SCD-025's drive. So there is no hard and fast rule.

As my friend told me, the StillPoints work only by single contact on ceramic balls. There is no bearing. A bearing adds free movement in all planes so we are talking of 2 very different ways of action.

Did your friend provide commentary on how and why the Ultra 6's work, or a-b test those feet against the PAB feet in his system?

Moreover, the PAB feet can be ordered in various metals, or acrylic, or plywood ( Lignofol). They just released a full ceramic foot that I will try in a few days (very expensive !). All sound different. Vladek told me that the ceramic ones are the best possible.

Stillpoints experimented with a lot of different materials, including composites and carbon before settling on stainless steel which they found transfers energy faster than Aluminum and is more stable. Stillpoints are designed so they do not alter the tonality of the connected component unlike many other feet. Everything about the design and materials used in Stillpoints has a specific purpose.

How much is the cost of an Ultra 6 ?

$899 each, or $939 with Ultra base

[Joe P]

http://www.cnet.com/news/insanely-gr...iophiliac.ftag

[Jerome W]

I am staying with my 40.1 and will die with them !

[joeinid]

Beautiful photos and setup Jerome! Love it.

[Jerome W]

Beautiful photos and setup Jerome! Love it.

Thanks Joe !

[Mike]

Jerome - great looking setup! Beautiful. I would love to hear it.

Jerome, have you ever heard of ISOAcoustics? http://www.isoacoustics.com/index.php I have a sneaking suspicion their stands would sound wonderful under Harbeth's. They had an excellent presentation & demo at CES.

[kkfan]

Jerome,

That's a beautiful setup indeed!

What turntable are you using?

Jerome - great looking setup! Beautiful. I would love to hear it.

Jerome, have you ever heard of ISOAcoustics? http://www.isoacoustics.com/index.php I have a sneaking suspicion their stands would sound wonderful under Harbeth's. They had an excellent presentation & demo at CES.

Mike,

Thanks for the heads up on those stands. There seems to be a clear difference when the speakers are placed on the stands. Did you hear them at CES? If you did, what were your impressions?

So much for Alan's claim that ANY platform would do.

My only gripe would be that they have a cheap look. I wish they had a better finish and design. IMO, Harbeths generally look best on traditional looking stands, if you know what I mean.

[Jerome W]

Jerome - great looking setup! Beautiful. I would love to hear it.

Jerome, have you ever heard of ISOAcoustics? http://www.isoacoustics.com/index.php I have a sneaking suspicion their stands would sound wonderful under Harbeth's. They had an excellent presentation & demo at CES.

Thanks Mike ! Americans are welcome in Paris !
No I did not hear about those stands. I will check.
My feet are more "Pro Audio Bono" than Skylan. I use 16 Anti Vibration Feet for my speakers, with the most advanced and expensive ones : the Nickel Manganese.

[Jerome W]

Jerome,

That's a beautiful setup indeed!

What turntable are you using?







Mike,

Thanks for the heads up on those stands. There seems to be a clear difference when the speakers are placed on the stands. Did you hear them at CES? If you did, what were your impressions?

So much for Alan's claim that ANY platform would do.

My only gripe would be that they have a cheap look. I wish they had a better finish and design. IMO, Harbeths generally look best on traditional looking stands, if you know what I mean.

Hello,
Thank you.
The TT is the Rega P9 fitted with a Denon Dl103 Expert Stylus Company, into an A23 SUT.

[MDP]

Jerome, that's just a gorgeous room and system! Thanks for sharing, exquisite taste in furnishings.

[Ritmo]

Very nice system and room Jerome. C'est magnifique!

[Jerome W]

Mark, Mike : thank you !

[Paul]

Beautiful gear and room. You made a wise decision. Its a world class speakers.


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[Jerome W]

Beautiful gear and room. You made a wise decision. Its a world class speakers.


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Thanks Paul.

[kev313]

Beautiful room, Jerome! Perfectly suited for music enjoyment.


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[Jerome W]

Beautiful room, Jerome! Perfectly suited for music enjoyment.


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Thank you Kev.
But I felt in love with Altec speakers. There will be soon an other pair of Altecs there.
I am thinking about a pair of Malibu's.
I love the Harbeth sound but Altec is just incredible.

[kkfan]

Thank you Kev.
But I felt in love with Altec speakers. There will be soon an other pair of Altecs there.
I am thinking about a pair of Malibu's.
I love the Harbeth sound but Altec is just incredible.

Are the Altec as good with vocals as Harbeth is? Do you like the Altec sound better?

[Jerome W]

Are the Altec as good with vocals as Harbeth is? Do you like the Altec sound better?

To my huge surprise, yes. The vocals on my Altecs are as good as the ones of the Harbeth. They sound a bit different though, the Altecs being less warm than the Harbeth.
But naturalness and transparency are top notch for both.
There is much more life in the Altec speakers. And they still sound musical and not "in your face". And the bass, although not going very low like Harbeth, is just faster, richer and cleaner than the Harbeth one.
The Harbeth are great for relaxing.
The Altecs are closer to the real life imho.

[Mike]

To my huge surprise, yes. The vocals on my Altecs are as good as the ones of the Harbeth. They sound a bit different though, the Altecs being less warm than the Harbeth.
But naturalness and transparency are top notch for both.
There is much more life in the Altec speakers. And they still sound musical and not "in your face". And the bass, although not going very low like Harbeth, is just faster, richer and cleaner than the Harbeth one.
The Harbeth are great for relaxing.
The Altecs are closer to the real life imho.

Great post. Well said Jerome - and exactly how I feel about my Avantgarde's. It's like having a concert in my room every night. So dynamic. So alive. So "they are here". But like you, I can appreciate the virtues of other speakers.


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[kkfan]

To my huge surprise, yes. The vocals on my Altecs are as good as the ones of the Harbeth. They sound a bit different though, the Altecs being less warm than the Harbeth.
But naturalness and transparency are top notch for both.
There is much more life in the Altec speakers. And they still sound musical and not "in your face". And the bass, although not going very low like Harbeth, is just faster, richer and cleaner than the Harbeth one.
The Harbeth are great for relaxing.
The Altecs are closer to the real life imho.

From everything you're describing, I think you need to listen to 40.2, if you haven't done so already. The 40.2 would be more "real life" from what I understand.

[Jerome W]

From everything you're describing, I think you need to listen to 40.2, if you haven't done so already. The 40.2 would be more "real life" from what I understand.

Yes maybe. But honestly I seriously doubt that you could reach with the 40.2 the level of "you're there" reached by high eff speakers.
The technology is so different. Very light paper membranes against heavy mass polymer ones with rubber suspensions. Just two different worlds.

[Mike]

Yes maybe. But honestly I seriously doubt that you could reach with the 40.2 the level of "you're there" reached by high eff speakers.
The technology is so different. Very light paper membranes against heavy mass polymer ones with rubber suspensions. Just two different worlds.

I'm starting to read the evolution of personal sound in your writings Jerome. Looks like you need to hear the Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD's!

[kev313]

I'm starting to read the evolution of personal sound in your writings Jerome. Looks like you need to hear the Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD's!

Too late. Jerome has fully embraced the dark side. Evil laugh. Evil laugh. Evil laugh. Soon the path will lead to a full Western Electric system right there in that lovely room in Paris.


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[Mike]

Too late. Jerome has fully embraced the dark side. Evil laugh. Evil laugh. Evil laugh. Soon the path will lead to a full Western Electric system right there in that lovely room in Paris.


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I would fly over to hear that!


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[Jerome W]

Too late. Jerome has fully embraced the dark side. Evil laugh. Evil laugh. Evil laugh. Soon the path will lead to a full Western Electric system right there in that lovely room in Paris.


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Now you're talking Kev !

[mep]

From everything you're describing, I think you need to listen to 40.2, if you haven't done so already. The 40.2 would be more "real life" from what I understand.

Is this based on hearing them or reading about them?

[kkfan]

Is this based on hearing them or reading about them?

Reading about the differences between 40.1 and 40.2 as described by Alan Shaw. In short, the 40.2 is supposed to be a complete overhaul of the 40.1. Night and day.

[Paul]

Reading about the differences between 40.1 and 40.2 as described by Alan Shaw. In short, the 40.2 is supposed to be a complete overhaul of the 40.1. Night and day.

I wouldn't say any other part of your quote but I can say this. I heard both pair and I choose the M40.1 over 40.2

The bass is simply amazing on 40.2 and it will be easy to work with various room without spending a much $$ on stands as what Jerome and I did and gives you bit more bite to mid range however same time you lose the that magic sweet mid range on new 40.2. YMMV.

Mike heard them at the show. Hope he can chime in his experience.


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[Jerome W]

I wouldn't say any other part of your quote but I can say this. I heard both pair and I choose the M40.1 over 40.2

The bass is simply amazing on 40.2 and it will be easy to work with various room without spending a much $$ on stands as what Jerome and I did and gives you bit more bite to mid range however same time you lose the that magic sweet mid range on new 40.2. YMMV.

Mike heard them at the show. Hope he can chime in his experience.


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That is interesting Paul. Although it is possible that what you heard was the effect of the different rooms and gear associated.
The only way to hear the real differences between the 40.1 and .2 would be to have both in the same room, with the same gear.
This will never happen because dealers have to first sell their 40.1 before ordering the 40.2.
And that lets the door wide open for all the marketing hype !