Please help me choose preamp for family room

[Bill13]

Hey Guys I have a combo kitchen-family room where I have a quasi theatre set up. This is not my main theatre room.

Right now I have vintage gear. Lexicon preamp. My three front speakers are powered and work perfectly so I would like to keep them.
My two rear speakers are powered by a Rotel amp and I would like to keep them.

A Yamaha Adventage was suggested to me but it might be overkill with 11 channels vs my 5.1 set up

I like Yamaha, Denon, Marantz. It looks like I need a preamp instead of a receiver because of my powered speakers and Rotel.


Can any one throw out some specific ideas for the preamp to me?

Thanks

Bill

[Mike]

Classe CP800.


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[Bill13]

MIKE: I did not see any HDMI ins or outs on this unit. I need a preamp mostly for a TV experience.

[Mike]

MIKE: I did not see any HDMI ins or outs on this unit. I need a preamp mostly for a TV experience.

BILL: a two channel preamp with HDMI? Good luck.

Do you mean a Surround Sound Processor? Something like a multi channel receiver, but without the amp? That's an SSP. That will have HDMI.


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[mep]

A two channel preamp with HDMI? Good luck.


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Mike-He has at least 5 channels.

[Mike]

Mike-He has at least 5 channels.

Then he needs a SSP, not a preamp. The pickings for a multi channel preamp are few and far between. And ones with HDMI are almost non existent. The Parasound P7 is the only one that comes to mind, but again, no HDMI.

Bill - check out something like a Marantz 7701 or 8801.


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[Jack]

Take a look at this one.

https://emotiva.com/products/pres-and-pros/umc-200

[Bill13]

Yes like the 8801 you mentioned.

[Bill13]

Take a look at this one.

https://emotiva.com/products/pres-and-pros/umc-200

I like this but does not accept any legacy sources. Wish is not a big deal to me but its a little deal.

[Bill13]

Then he needs a SSP, not a preamp. The pickings for a multi channel preamp are few and far between. And ones with HDMI are almost non existent. The Parasound P7 is the only one that comes to mind, but again, no HDMI.

Bill - check out something like a Marantz 7701 or 8801.



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I should have said SSP: The 7701 and 8801 are the type of machines I am looking at. Does Marantz rule the market? Do Yamaha Adventage line and Denon compare?

[Jack]

The Marantz and Denon's are from the same company.

[Jack]

Bill

If by legacy you mean analog sources, there are four sets of analog inputs and one set of analog 7.1 inputs.

[Bill13]

Bill

If by legacy you mean analog sources, there are four sets of analog inputs and one set of analog 7.1 inputs.

Oh when I read the review it said something like not providing for legacy. Those inputs would do. I did not realize Denon and Marantz were made by one company. Do you know what is the equivalent Denon to the 8801?

[Jack]

Bill

The reviews were referring to it having no component or composite video inputs. As to the Denon's, D&M Holdings doesn't market SSP's under the Denon badge. Another thing with the Emotiva is that you can try it for 30 days and then ship it back if you don't like it.

[BlueFox]

For my 5.1 HT/surround sound/spare stereo I use the Onkyo SC5509. I have been very happy with its sound.

Preamplifiers | PR-SC5509 | Onkyo USA

The rest of the system is Aerial Acoustics 7T speakers for the front, PSB Synchrony One for the rears, and a PSB Synchrony One Center speaker. Two Cambridge-Audio 840W amps drive the front, and a Sunfire TGA-5400 amp drives the center and rears. A Bryston BDP-1 file player is an audio source, and it connects to a Bryston BDA-2 DAC. An Oppo 103 plays the Blue Rays.

[Bill13]

Bill

The reviews were referring to it having no component or composite video inputs. As to the Denon's, D&M Holdings doesn't market SSP's under the Denon badge. Another thing with the Emotiva is that you can try it for 30 days and then ship it back if you don't like it.

It gets a lot less press than the more popular Marantz and the upcoming Yamaha CX a5000 but it sounds like its worth exploring. I will read about it more. Very hard to get answers by googling reviews (so many are biased)

[Bill13]

For my 5.1 HT/surround sound/spare stereo I use the Onkyo SC5509. I have been very happy with its sound.

Preamplifiers | PR-SC5509 | Onkyo USA

The rest of the system is Aerial Acoustics 7T speakers for the front, PSB Synchrony One for the rears, and a PSB Synchrony One Center speaker. Two Cambridge-Audio 840W amps drive the front, and a Sunfire TGA-5400 amp drives the center and rears. A Bryston BDP-1 file player is an audio source, and it connects to a Bryston BDA-2 DAC. An Oppo 103 plays the Blue Rays.

sounds interesting: specs appear right

[Jack]

Bill

The Onkyo appears to be a great unit, but as you said this was a secondary HT setup, I was trying to help you accomplish your goal at a far lower price with a well reviewed unit. If you are willing to spend in the price range of the Onkyo there are multiple units that will fit the bill. But if you don't need 7.2 or 9.2 and all of the advanced processing in this setup, then don't pay for them.

[Bill13]

Bill

The Onkyo appears to be a great unit, but as you said this was a secondary HT setup, I was trying to help you accomplish your goal at a far lower price with a well reviewed unit. If you are willing to spend in the price range of the Onkyo there are multiple units that will fit the bill. But if you don't need 7.2 or 9.2 and all of the advanced processing in this setup, then don't pay for them.

Of course, you are right its not my primary HT, I do not need 7.2 or 9.2. I am looking for the best "reasonable" solution. Thank you for the advice.

Bill

[Jack]

Bill

I am not a HT kind of guy. I had a faze about a decade ago when I bought all dedicated components and set up a pretty good HT system with a dedicated SSP, a high quality two channel amp for the fronts and a Rotel three channel amp for the center and surround. That required a dedicated rack to support all the equipment. When after four or five years I figured out I wasn't really using it that much, I sold all that gear off and went to a Pioneer Elite AV Reciever. Is the sound quality the same as the separate components, no but it does take up less room and the equipment rack went away. If I was to get back in to separate AV components now I would buy the processor I recommended and their cheapest 5 channel amp. A reviewer on one the sites tested the two bottom line Emotiva components against a $2500 top of the line Denon AVR and the less than a $1000 Emotiva separates won hands down.

[Bill13]

Last night I read about the Marantz 8801, 7701, Yamaha CX A5000, Intergra803/ Onkyo PR-SC5509 SSP

The main problem I am having is that I only have 5 speakers and the world is spinning to add many more channels but my room can't handle it. So I find myself also looking at units made in 2011/2012 which I might be missing some tech that I actually could use.

[Mike]

Bill - you configure those SSP's like the 8801 to use as many or as little speakers as you have. The onscreen menu on the 8801 for example allows you to go from 2 to 11 speakers.


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[CPP]

Bill - you configure those SSP's like the 8801 to use as many or as little speakers as you have. The onscreen menu on the 8801 for example allows you to go from 2 to 11 speakers.


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I agree with Mike, those setup menus are pretty straight forward on speaker setup

ps: depending on your budget, there is the Denon AVP-A1HDCI(A) , Anthem D2v 3D, not to mention Krell makes a nice processor for some $$$

[Bill13]

Sorry guys if I misled you to what my issue was. I did not doubt that I could downgrade from 11 channels to 5. My issue was since I was fixed at 5, I wondered if I needed an 11 channel capable unit. (why pay for unusable if you know what I mean)

[Jack]

Bill

You will in the end just have to buy based on what you are comfortable spending on a secondary system taking into account how much you are really going to use it. All of the units mentioned get good reviews, so it will come down to your preference and budget.

[BlueFox]

The main problem I am having is that I only have 5 speakers and the world is spinning to add many more channels but my room can't handle it. So I find myself also looking at units made in 2011/2012 which I might be missing some tech that I actually could use.

That is the issue I had, but if you buy new then you are stuck with extra channels. Of course, you don't have to use them if you don't need them, but you do have to pay for them.

[Bill13]

That is the issue I had, but if you buy new then you are stuck with extra channels. Of course, you don't have to use them if you don't need them, but you do have to pay for them.

So Bud what did you settle for? I have three entertainment systems. 1) Kitchen/family room with typical tv sitting in entertainment unit. 2) theatre room which current has a 7 year old Arcam 350 which needs to be upgraded because only 1 hdmi connection and 3) a room housing my 2 channel system.

I figure a marantz 8801 would be a good replacement for the Arcam in the main theater room. The kitchen/family room is a place where I watch the news and spend an hour or two after work. I sometimes listen music there but not often. I would say it would be 90% TV/ 10% music. The TV would be 90% regular cable and satellite and 10% movies. I usually like to watch movies upstairs in the theater room. So I am looking for a SSP for the kitchen with the understanding I will not be listening to much music there or watching many movies. But I want the TV to be great.

I think I am just ranting so I get my story straight when the IT guy my wife hired comes this week. He favors the Samsung LED smart TV and the Yamaha Adventage line. I think he is probably a dealer for the latter.

[BlueFox]

I have the Onkyo SC5509 I referenced earlier. It replaced a Sony DA7100ES AVR I was using as a pre.

[Bill13]

I have the Onkyo SC5509 I referenced earlier. It replaced a Sony DA7100ES AVR I was using as a pre.

You certainly did say that. I am not placing faces with preamps well today. I did read about it. Interesting situation where the Manufacturer is discontinuing and heavily discounting what remains in stock. I will look more into it. I know the earlier model had the HDMI issue but the newer models seems free from that.


Forgetting about stuff you can do with 7,9, 11 speakers can it do everything else you would normally expect these days?

[BlueFox]

Forgetting about stuff you can do with 7,9, 11 speakers can it do everything else you would normally expect these days?

From my perspective, yes. The main thing for me is it sounds good. I noticed it sounded better than the AVR as soon as I turned it on. It has whatever the current crop of bells and whistles was a few years ago. I have the Oppo decode the audio, and send LPCM to the pre over HDMI. I forgot why that is preferred over having the pre do the decoding. Neither do I use the Audessy for setting up speakers. I use the test tones and an SPL meter to set the same volume level for each speaker at my seat. When I play music I sometime use the various surround options, but mostly use Pure Direct. The on screen menu is very intuitive and easy to figure out and use. I guess I have had it around two years now with no issues.

The only thing that might have been a problem was I never got my SACD player to play SACDs over HDMI. I did have a Sony XA-5400ES player in the system, and it has an HDMI port for multiple channels. It only supplies two channel analog outputs, and you are supposed to use the HDMI port for surround sound. Anyway, I never got it to work, but didn't really invest much time in it. I sold the SACD player, and added the Bryston file player.

[Bill13]

From my perspective, yes. The main thing for me is it sounds good. I noticed it sounded better than the AVR as soon as I turned it on. It has whatever the current crop of bells and whistles was a few years ago. I have the Oppo decode the audio, and send LPCM to the pre over HDMI. I forgot why that is preferred over having the pre do the decoding. Neither do I use the Audessy for setting up speakers. I use the test tones and an SPL meter to set the same volume level for each speaker at my seat. When I play music I sometime use the various surround options, but mostly use Pure Direct. The on screen menu is very intuitive and easy to figure out and use. I guess I have had it around two years now with no issues.

The only thing that might have been a problem was I never got my SACD player to play SACDs over HDMI. I did have a Sony XA-5400ES player in the system, and it has an HDMI port for multiple channels. It only supplies two channel analog outputs, and you are supposed to use the HDMI port for surround sound. Anyway, I never got it to work, but didn't really invest much time in it. I sold the SACD player, and added the Bryston file player.

Does running the audio through the preamp and the video through the oppo cause any lip sync issues. Are there any issues with bass management doing it that way?

[BlueFox]

I run the Blueray audio and video over the HDMI between the Oppo and Onkyo with no issues at all. I believe having the Oppo decode the audio eliminates the lip sync issue that can occur when the pre decodes the audio. I could run the video directly from the Oppo to the TV, but the TV only has one HDMI port, and I also need to use an Xbox. So, the video passes through the a Onkyo instead so I can select the input.

[Bill13]

I run the Blueray audio and video over the HDMI between the Oppo and Onkyo with no issues at all. I believe having the Oppo decode the audio eliminates the lip sync issue that can occur when the pre decodes the audio. I could run the video directly from the Oppo to the TV, but the TV only has one HDMI port, and I also need to use an Xbox. So, the video passes through the a Onkyo instead so I can select the input.

Good setup

Thanks

Bill