What about Pathos?

[Shadowfax]

I have always loved the look and styling of Pathos gear. In my quest for compiling my downsizing short list, I was looking at 2 Pathos Integrated Amps.

The Logos and the Pathos Classic One MK III Integrated Amplifier are both in my range, the Pathos at the high end of it. I have been reading some mixed reviews and not getting a good feel for how they really perform and sound.

Does anyone here have experience with Pathos gear? Also, what speakers would pair nicely up to $4k?

[cmalak]

Brian...the Pathos Logos is what got me interested in High End Audio. Back in the early 2000s, I was working in NYC and a buddy of mine had just spent a boat load of money (at least it seemed so to me at the time) on a stereo system and I thought he was crazy. As it happened, that first high-end system for my buddy was a Pathos Logos integrated amp, JM Focal Lab 928Be speakers, a Burmester CD player, an Aesthetix Rhea phono preamp, and a VPI Scoutmaster tt with Lyra Argos cartridge. I forget the cabling but I think it was Synergistic Research. In any case, I was completely bowled over by what I was hearing. Of course this was my firt exposure and introduction to high end and so it holds a very special place in my memory banks. I cannot claim to have had much in the way of critical listening skills back then but I remember the sound being resolved yet smooth, quite dynamic, and textured/rich.

I know the original Pathos Logos was generally quite well received. I know Srajan at 6Moons.com just published a review of the Logos Mk II which recently came out and he was not very enthusiastic about the product to say the least, calling it slow, muddy, lacking in resolution, etc...but he also published a follow up saying that his tastes in recent years have clearly veered away from the tube sound and that he may not have had the right speakers matched to the Logos integrated.

So my suggestion is if you can listen to it locally, I would very much suggest you do so. I remember the MK I version very fondly but it has been years since I have heard it but it is one of the components that compelled me to explore the high end for myself and the rest is history. I know a reviewer (I believe his name is Doug Schroeder) at D'Agogo.com, used the Classic One Mk III integrated bridged in mono configuration (2 of them) as his reference amplification for many years. He is very fond of the Classic One Mk III.

Hope this helps somehow although again if you can listen for yourself, that will be the best way for you to determine whether these amps are your cup of tea or not.

[Shadowfax]

Thanks Cyril!

Quest For Sound near me used to sell them, but I just checked their site and they no longer do. I will poke around to see if there is any other place local to me.

That 6Moons review was one of the reviews that had me 2nd guessing.

[KeithR]

the old Twin Tower integrated was always something I wanted to try (back in NYC in 2000, as well)

[CPP]

I used to own the Pathos Classic One MK III, very nice, well made, great sound and it's good looks help when the WAF is needed. Sold the unit, what a mistake, I liked the unit and the wife liked it....Should have listen more to the wife. I used my Usher Be-718 and at the time J.M. Reynaud Bliss with the Pathos

[MusicDirector]

Wow Brian! Good taste you have. I didn't even know about Pathos until this post. Very nice looking unit! I like that little mystery wooden remote too! That is way cool.
I went and peaked at their other stuff too and their stuff has a unique look, it's quite nice. Also very expensive, to me anyway. However, the unit your looking at is not bad in price either if it is to be the engine of a system. If I were looking to do a different system, I'd put this on my short list.

[CPP]

I think the Pathos TT (formerly Twin towers) is pretty awesome looking at 35 watts and 120lbs

[JBLfan]

I own a Pathos TT and also the Pathos phono stage - have heard the Classic and Logos as well - As you can see I am a huge fan of Pathos - it is very well made using top quality parts and in my case has been bomb proof.

Well known reviewer Sam Tellig used to own a Pathos TT as his reference amplifier - he described it as "superb resolution and stunning immediacy" eventually he parted with it noting it was not an ideal reference amplifier for a reviewer as there are too many speakers it is not compatible with. From my own experience this is fair comment on Pathos - unlike McIntosh that can drive virtually any speaker Pathos is far, far more speaker dependent.

I have found the key to matching speakers for Pathos is looking carefully at the impedance curve - anything that doesn't drop much below 6 ohms seems to work very well - this is often why you see Focal paired with Pathos as many Focal's are easily driven. I currently use Reference 3a which also works beautifully. Another very good pairing I found was Acoustic Zen that I had prior to the 3A. When I first got the Pathos I had B&W 805S - the impedance curve on those drops under 4 ohms and I found they were a poor match with the Pathos - keep in mind my comments are more specific to the TT and not the models you are looking at but I have heard similar comments from other owners.

I have zero regrets owning Pathos and would not hesitate to buy one again - one other very cool aspect is being hybrid you have the ability to tube roll - different tubes can make a huge difference in the Pathos as I recently discovered - basically they are your tone control.

Good luck.

[CPP]

I own a Pathos TT and also the Pathos phono stage - have heard the Classic and Logos as well - As you can see I am a huge fan of Pathos - it is very well made using top quality parts and in my case has been bomb proof.

Well known reviewer Sam Tellig used to own a Pathos TT as his reference amplifier - he described it as "superb resolution and stunning immediacy" eventually he parted with it noting it was not an ideal reference amplifier for a reviewer as there are too many speakers it is not compatible with. From my own experience this is fair comment on Pathos - unlike McIntosh that can drive virtually any speaker Pathos is far, far more speaker dependent.

I have found the key to matching speakers for Pathos is looking carefully at the impedance curve - anything that doesn't drop much below 6 ohms seems to work very well - this is often why you see Focal paired with Pathos as many Focal's are easily driven. I currently use Reference 3a which also works beautifully. Another very good pairing I found was Acoustic Zen that I had prior to the 3A. When I first got the Pathos I had B&W 805S - the impedance curve on those drops under 4 ohms and I found they were a poor match with the Pathos - keep in mind my comments are more specific to the TT and not the models you are looking at but I have heard similar comments from other owners.

I have zero regrets owning Pathos and would not hesitate to buy one again - one other very cool aspect is being hybrid you have the ability to tube roll - different tubes can make a huge difference in the Pathos as I recently discovered - basically they are your tone control.

Good luck.

JBL the Pathos TT is one fine piece of equipment.

[XV-1]

My friend owns a Pathos Logos with Eclipse speakers - Spiral Groove table.

He demoed the pathos against the current expensive FOM Vitus SIA-25. The Pathos sounded overall more musical and could actually drive the Eclipses, unlike the Vitus which would clip into dynamic music.

Highly recommended.

[Shadowfax]

Thanks for the great input and personal experiences. That was what I was looking for. It will be hard to demo one of these without traveling far.

My wife is all Italian and I am hoping she likes the look, because the price will drop her jaw to the floor

[Shadowfax]

Well this is pretty odd. I emailed my local shop, Quest for Sound that used to be a Pathos dealer, and got the following reply:

Hi Brian

we no longer carry Pathos

too many service issues ...

[MusicDirector]

Well this is pretty odd. I emailed my local shop, Quest for Sound that used to be a Pathos dealer, and got the following reply:

Hi Brian

we no longer carry Pathos

too many service issues ...

Wow! Uh oh. When a dealer or retailer says the words "too many service issues", that's usually a bad sign and when I really start getting very inquisitive and go to another round of brain bleeding research again. With something as nice looking as Pathos I usually do a little crying too.....ok, just kidding about the crying, but it is a big bummer to hear.

[dlb2]

Of course "too many service issues" could also mean "not enough money in it for me."



Sent from my mobile.

[Shadowfax]

I don't know the guy well enough to say one way or the other. He sells many brands you don't see elsewhere and sells his own Sound Quest line of Amps, HE Speakers, CD Player w/Granite Audio Tube Stage. They do repairs for reasonable price and free estimate and fixed up my Hafler 945 nicely.

[CPP]

Of course "too many service issues" could also mean "not enough money in it for me."



Sent from my mobile.

Bingo or not enough sales to warrant keeping gear in stock or doesn't make enough on each piece to warrant keeping the line

[MusicDirector]

Bingo or not enough sales to warrant keeping gear in stock or doesn't make enough on each piece to warrant keeping the line

Yes, this is also true and I have run into it at least once. Kind of dishonest in my opinion to say something that may be putting down a perfectly fine make just because it doesn't sell well out of said shop. On the other hand the dealer needs things that sell. Still, I would personally prefer them to just honestly tell me, I get it. Anyway, that's just me.

[Dpod4]

My Pathos Aurium has been the very definition of trouble free. Amazing build quality. Attention to every detail.

[sharkmouth]

I don't know the guy well enough to say one way or the other. He sells many brands you don't see elsewhere and sells his own Sound Quest line of Amps, HE Speakers, CD Player w/Granite Audio Tube Stage. They do repairs for reasonable price and free estimate and fixed up my Hafler 945 nicely.

Maybe they were too much competition & he couldn't come close to selling his own "with the barge pole added"

[Shadowfax]

Yeah, I'm not going to let that deter me. I have been digging for reviews and find way more 4-5 star entries than any other. I have found a few where the same unit needed repair several times, but that is way out of the norm, and happens with almost every product that one can buy.

The TT mat be out of my range, but the Logos may be in. The Classic is definitely doable but only with the right speakers. Many reviews are saying that a better CDP is needed to bring out the best. I suppose with the Logos I should eventually look at players that are single ended? Really tho, would I have issues getting decent sound out of my Rotel 1072 for a while?

I am looking for more Logos reviews that are not from Pro writers and mags. I want reviews from those that dropped the cash, aside from Sam.

Thanks again for all the input. Even if one cannot audition something, going on highly trusted input sure helps ease the anxiety.

[MusicDirector]

Yeah, I'm not going to let that deter me. I have been digging for reviews and find way more 4-5 star entries than any other. I have found a few where the same unit needed repair several times, but that is way out of the norm, and happens with almost every product that one can buy.

The TT mat be out of my range, but the Logos may be in. The Classic is definitely doable but only with the right speakers. Many reviews are saying that a better CDP is needed to bring out the best. I suppose with the Logos I should eventually look at players that are single ended? Really tho, would I have issues getting decent sound out of my Rotel 1072 for a while?

I am looking for more Logos reviews that are not from Pro writers and mags. I want reviews from those that dropped the cash, aside from Sam.

Thanks again for all the input. Even if one cannot audition something, going on highly trusted input sure helps ease the anxiety.

Ah, you and I think alike. That's the spirit Brian. Seriously, good thinking, I do the same in this situation when considering the possibility that your hearing from one or two dealers that may prefer to sell their own stuff or that may get better results from other gear sales or any number of things not really related to reliability and such. Even without all that, getting opinions from those who have dropped cash on such things helps to ease the anxiety.
I go through tons of anxiety on my purchases from the Benjamin on up because it's a lot to me and I have to save up for such things while trying to make ends meet and for right now I do so, sometimes it takes 2 or 3 months and sometimes 1 or 2 years plus, but I get there. However, when I do arrive I want to make sure I'm getting what I'm paying for and that it will last me a good long time. If I can not demo or sometimes even if I could, I have found that soliciting experienced opinions from those who have owned or do own said product as a user as opposed to a reviewer does help balance the scales. I say that because reviewers only have a relatively short time with a product, usually 1 or 2 months and have a good, but perhaps somewhat different set of things they look at than an end user's point of view because they only have a short time with the item. I usually collect both types of info ultimately as both are very useful.
I also find that it pays to be careful with "customer reviews" on retail related sites and such. You have to take into account how the review is written which will tell you if the person is an idiot who didn't know what they were doing and ruined the unit themselves or if they are just mad because they wanted the moon and the seller wouldn't give it to them or if they are making legitimate points and talking sense.

I wouldn't worry about the CDP for now or for a while. If it's not broken, then no need for concern. Sounds like marketing hype to me telling folks they need a new CDP just because they are changing amps or something. I'd pay closer attention to the speakers you want to use in pair with an amp over any other piece of gear that would connect to it.

Just my half-cent opinions

~Eric

[Shadowfax]

Spot on Eric, Speakers will be auditioned next week hopefully.