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  1. #1
    Audioshark
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    Power - what do you do?

    When the Entec AC line noise analyzer showed me just how dirty even my dedicated 20amp circuit was, I became very interested in power. Clean AC without restricting frequencies is the goal. But also, I feel that consistent clean power is also very important - especially to sources and in particular, digital sources.

    I will admit, I was ready to sell the VAC amps. They were sounding awful. Bright and overly sibilant. I tried them upstairs (dedicated 20amp circuit) and downstairs (regular old house line). They were worse downstairs.

    It wasn't until I knew my AC - even my dedicated AC - was dirty did I put two and two together and realized that point to point wired tube amps might just be the most susceptible to dirty AC. Amps like VAC and Jadis and many other P2P tube amps which don't have their own massive power plant and circuit boards and other technology built in to filter out bad AC, combined with tubes which seem to simply amplify dirty AC, are easily the most affected by dirty power IMO. Big SS amps like McIntosh, Boulder and Krell don't seem to be as affected by dirty AC.

    Back to the VAC amps.....I dusted off one of my APC S15's. The APC S15 and S20 are monsters. They are the size and weight of a big power amp. They are APC's answer for high end audio and video for clean, protected, stable AC. I plugged both VAC amps into it and talk about going from worst to first! The difference was so over the top better that I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Blackest backgrounds. Super smooth on top. Tighter bass. Better midrange. If the Entec measurements didn't convince me, listening to the "new and much improved" VAC's did.

    I spent the better part of the week talking to people I know and trust. If I spoke to 10 people, I got 10 different answers.

    It appears that there is some consensus - power regeneration is best only on digital sources, power conditioning (my APC, Torus, Bryston BIT-20, etc.) CAN rob you of some dynamics (personally, I don't buy it if implemented properly) and third, the Shunyata way - which appears to be proprietary and has a lot of supporters.

    As for properly implementing power conditioning, I found that when I plugged both power amps into one APC S15, I retained all the dynamics and gained blacker backgrounds and all the benefits mentioned above. But when I dusted off my other S15 and plugged one amp into each power conditioner, I was robbed of some dynamics.

    I have recently purchased the MIT Z Super Duplex outlets as a start and hope to have them in my system next week. I believe settling on a power foundation will involve some trial and error.

    What do you use for conditioning, regenerate and/or stabilization of voltage?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  2. #2
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    Re: Power - what do you do?

    As a side note, I spent a good hour speaking with Matthew from Torus on Friday. That guy knows his stuff. He told me that although Torus sells solutions for "whole home", he recommended for high end audio that you clean AC at the device/source/amp/preamp stage because most of the line noise in a home comes from other devices on the line.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  3. #3

    Re: Power - what do you do?

    2x20 amp dedicated lines.
    Furutech GTX D Rh receptacles
    Assorted power cords including Kubala-Sosna Emotion and Elation
    Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC front-end
    Shunyata Venom Defender amps
    Myles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
    Zellaton Plural Evo speakers, Goldmund Telos 1000 Nextgen mono amplifiers, Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier, Doshi Audio EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostages, VPI Avenger direct-drive turntable/VPI 12-inch gimbal Fatboy/vdH Colibri Master Signature/Triangle Art Apollo cartridges, SAT LM-12 tonearms/Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, VPI 12-inch gimballed Carbon Fiber arm/vdh Black Crimson and Sumiko Songbird, Mutech Hayabusa cartridges
    Technics RS1506 reel-to-reel with low inductance Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi Audio EVO tapestage, AudioQuest Dragon Zero, Audience FrontRow, Ensemble PC, Skogrand, Kubala-Sosna Realization speaker cable, Ikigai Kangai speaker cable, SRA Craz 3/OHIO 2.3 platforms and Symposium ISIS/Ultra rack/platforms, Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC.

  4. #4

    Re: Power - what do you do?

    MIT Magnum Ztrap for each amp
    Caribbean Distributor of
    ARC / Sonus Faber / Wadia / Wilson / VAC / Soulution / Nordost / Shunyata / Stillpoints
    Kuzma / Focal / Resonessence Labs / ARIA / KRELL / Pro-Ject...

  5. #5

    Re: Power - what do you do?

    Great topic, Mike. I believe in the garbage in/garbage out rule, so I try to feed my components with as good/clean power as I can.

    Starting with the lines, I have 20amp dedicated lines for my amps and sources, 4 altogether. I use Furutech GTX Receptacles at each line. I should probably upgrade the 12 gauge lines to 10 gauge (at least for the amps) at some point (didn't know better at the time).

    For conditioner, I have the Shunyata Triton. It's a good conditioner, but I'd love to try a power regenerator like the Accuphase PS-510 or PS-1200. I have a friend who uses the latter and says it has literally transformed his system. I also know others on other forums have said similar things about the Accuphase units. I'd be curious if Shunyata would consider a power regenerator as one of their product offerings. Hope they see this thread and can opine. I'm also curious why it was noted that power regenerators are good for digital only? I thought amps and other sources would benefit as well, no?

    Last but not least, Shunyata Zitron power cables everywhere (and ICs and SCs). They have been awesome in my system.


    Allen



  6. #6

    Re: Power - what do you do?

    Last year when I went to your home I told you about your dirty AC. And if I'm not mistaking the one on far right had the worst of all.

    The ENTECH is a wonderful and cheap tool to have at home.

    Try first with the Zduplex and don't over do it. It could take some of the dynamics.

    Caribbean Distributor of
    ARC / Sonus Faber / Wadia / Wilson / VAC / Soulution / Nordost / Shunyata / Stillpoints
    Kuzma / Focal / Resonessence Labs / ARIA / KRELL / Pro-Ject...

  7. #7

    Re: Power - what do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Myles B. Astor View Post
    2x20 amp dedicated lines.
    Furutech GTX D Rh receptacles
    Assorted power cords including Kubala-Sosna Emotion and Elation
    Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC front-end
    Shunyata Venom Defender amps
    Myles, do you like the Venom Defenders? Considering those. What impact has it had on your SQ?

    thx


    Allen



  8. #8

    Re: Power - what do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by highEndguy View Post
    MIT Magnum Ztrap for each amp
    Caribbean Distributor of
    ARC / Sonus Faber / Wadia / Wilson / VAC / Soulution / Nordost / Shunyata / Stillpoints
    Kuzma / Focal / Resonessence Labs / ARIA / KRELL / Pro-Ject...

  9. #9
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    Re: Power - what do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by highEndguy View Post
    This going into each z duplex and then amp connected to this?
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  10. #10
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    Re: Power - what do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    When the Entec AC line noise analyzer showed me just how dirty even my dedicated 20amp circuit was, I became very interested in power. Clean AC without restricting frequencies is the goal. But also, I feel that consistent clean power is also very important - especially to sources and in particular, digital sources.

    I will admit, I was ready to sell the VAC amps. They were sounding awful. Bright and overly sibilant. I tried them upstairs (dedicated 20amp circuit) and downstairs (regular old house line). They were worse downstairs.

    It wasn't until I knew my AC - even my dedicated AC - was dirty did I put two and two together and realized that point to point wired tube amps might just be the most susceptible to dirty AC. Amps like VAC and Jadis and many other P2P tube amps which don't have their own massive power plant and circuit boards and other technology built in to filter out bad AC, combined with tubes which seem to simply amplify dirty AC, are easily the most affected by dirty power IMO. Big SS amps like McIntosh, Boulder and Krell don't seem to be as affected by dirty AC.

    Back to the VAC amps.....I dusted off one of my APC S15's. The APC S15 and S20 are monsters. They are the size and weight of a big power amp. They are APC's answer for high end audio and video for clean, protected, stable AC. I plugged both VAC amps into it and talk about going from worst to first! The difference was so over the top better that I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Blackest backgrounds. Super smooth on top. Tighter bass. Better midrange. If the Entec measurements didn't convince me, listening to the "new and much improved" VAC's did.

    I spent the better part of the week talking to people I know and trust. If I spoke to 10 people, I got 10 different answers.

    It appears that there is some consensus - power regeneration is best only on digital sources, power conditioning (my APC, Torus, Bryston BIT-20, etc.) CAN rob you of some dynamics (personally, I don't buy it if implemented properly) and third, the Shunyata way - which appears to be proprietary and has a lot of supporters.

    As for properly implementing power conditioning, I found that when I plugged both power amps into one APC S15, I retained all the dynamics and gained blacker backgrounds and all the benefits mentioned above. But when I dusted off my other S15 and plugged one amp into each power conditioner, I was robbed of some dynamics.

    I have recently purchased the MIT Z Super Duplex outlets as a start and hope to have them in my system next week. I believe settling on a power foundation will involve some trial and error.

    What do you use for conditioning, regenerate and/or stabilization of voltage?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

    As mentioned in my other reply PS Audio P10 really works well with my VAC's

    P10 Power Plant | PS Audio


    I had two Torus RM20's and worked well with my SS but no with my VAC's.

    Clean regulated power is very important - most don't know what they are missing until such is addressed. They may even fault the product as you were but then all the sudden realize it was the power all along.

    There are lots of options and system dependant - Shunyata Typhon and Triton seems to be getting some buzz lately - they have great product and would like try at some point. Years ago used some of their product but felt they were surpassed.

  11. #11

    Re: Power - what do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    This going into each z duplex and then amp connected to this?
    Correct.
    Amps makes a lot of noise
    You need them to be isolated
    Caribbean Distributor of
    ARC / Sonus Faber / Wadia / Wilson / VAC / Soulution / Nordost / Shunyata / Stillpoints
    Kuzma / Focal / Resonessence Labs / ARIA / KRELL / Pro-Ject...

  12. #12

    Re: Power - what do you do?

    Caribbean Distributor of
    ARC / Sonus Faber / Wadia / Wilson / VAC / Soulution / Nordost / Shunyata / Stillpoints
    Kuzma / Focal / Resonessence Labs / ARIA / KRELL / Pro-Ject...

  13. #13
    Audioshark
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    Re: Power - what do you do?

    Thanks Nelson. Do you experience any loss in dynamics with the combo?
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  14. #14
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    Re: Power - what do you do?

    What do you do with your preamp and sources?
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  15. #15

    Re: Power - what do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Thanks Nelson. Do you experience any loss in dynamics with the combo?
    None
    Caribbean Distributor of
    ARC / Sonus Faber / Wadia / Wilson / VAC / Soulution / Nordost / Shunyata / Stillpoints
    Kuzma / Focal / Resonessence Labs / ARIA / KRELL / Pro-Ject...

  16. #16

    Re: Power - what do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    What do you do with your preamp and sources?
    For my preamp and sources I use Zpower bar from MIT
    Server and DAC on the orange (isolated form all other equipments ) outlets
    Caribbean Distributor of
    ARC / Sonus Faber / Wadia / Wilson / VAC / Soulution / Nordost / Shunyata / Stillpoints
    Kuzma / Focal / Resonessence Labs / ARIA / KRELL / Pro-Ject...

  17. #17

    Re: Power - what do you do?

    The optical lens from a CD player is a nasty noise maker
    Caribbean Distributor of
    ARC / Sonus Faber / Wadia / Wilson / VAC / Soulution / Nordost / Shunyata / Stillpoints
    Kuzma / Focal / Resonessence Labs / ARIA / KRELL / Pro-Ject...

  18. #18
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    Re: Power - what do you do?

    If your setup works well in the Caribbean - it will work anywhere!
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  19. #19
    Senior Member
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    Re: Power - what do you do?

    I may live in one of the most challenging situations. My building has 115 apartments., so 114 other people drawing from the line that comes into the building. When I had my Spectral gear it was a bit "buzzy". I am running an Adept Response unit from Audience that is "star grounded". I plug the amp directly into the Furutech in the wall. Black as night now.
    T+A MP3100HV, T+A PA3100HV. Custom made Furutech cables with ETP-609 distributor with NCF outlets, Harbeth 40.2 Anniversaries.

  20. #20
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    Re: Power - what do you do?

    A friend of mine tested 13 different conditioners and he swears Audience was the best.
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  21. #21
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    Re: Power - what do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    A friend of mine tested 13 different conditioners and he swears Audience was the best.
    Curious - do share the list and the rest.

  22. #22
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    Power - what do you do?

    I will try to get the list - but it was everything from Belkin to Shunyata.

    I understand how the search for the cleanest power becomes an obsession! It has the most impact on gear. More than changing cable brands IMO. The DC can't fix the AC!
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  23. #23
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    Re: Power - what do you do?

    Here's the list:

    API
    Shunyata
    PS Audio
    Iso-Clean
    Panamax
    Audience
    Furman
    Exactpower
    Equi=Tech
    Furutech
    Bryston
    Richard Grey
    Chang lightspeed
    Monster
    Accuphase
    PurePower
    Red Roller something?
    Environmental Potentials
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  24. #24
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    Re: Power - what do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    A friend of mine tested 13 different conditioners and he swears Audience was the best.
    i have heard the same thing. was told buy someone i trust over anyone else with gear to go with nothing but dedicated lines until i can afford an audience conditioner.
    and a good friend who swaps gears as much as you guys told me he has been through the gauntlet of conditioners and the audience was the last one he bought. i been looking for a used one.
    oh btw i was also told by a master electrician to run 10/2 wire to dedicated outlets and twist the line once every foot for the best results. i dont know why but he knows enough that i will listen to him. and Jeff has told me the same thing.
    Steve

    TUBES & VINYL
    Is there anything else?

    Rega/Ortofon/Viva 300b/KR

    Music Reference 2A3

    Altec/JBL

  25. #25

    Re: Power - what do you do?

    I don't know how, but on other forums that have compared Shunyata vs. Audience (and to a lesser extent, Bryston BIT20), people seem to conclude that it's all system dependent. One well known (respected) forum member actually replaced his Audience with the Shunyata/Typhon combo and said it was better in his system. But all seemed to concur place the distributor on a good isolation platform, Stillpoints or otherwise, for best results.

    Having said that, I would love to try the Audience one day. They do come up from time to time on Agon, albeit not often. Jeff (AV Solutions) sells them I believe.


    Allen



  26. #26

    Re: Power - what do you do?

    HOME THEATER SYSTEM:
    Plasma TV and Video processor plugged into Audio Magic Mini plugged into ExactPower plugged into Equitech Balanced wall panel.
    All sources plugged into Exactpower plugged into Equitech.
    Subwoofers and amps plugged into dedicated outlets.

    2 CHANNEL:
    DAC plugged into modified Audience plugged into Equitech.
    Music Server plugged into dedicated outlet.
    Amp/pre plugged into dedicated outlet.

    ***All components to Tripoint Troy to dedicated ground.
    ***Careful attention paid to separating all AC and signal cables.
    ***Audio Magic fuses throughout.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  27. #27
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    Re: Power - what do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Petro85 View Post
    oh btw i was also told by a master electrician to run 10/2 wire to dedicated outlets and twist the line once every foot for the best results. i dont know why but he knows enough that i will listen to him. and Jeff has told me the same thing.
    Ensure you check with your local code prior to doing because that's against code to twist the wires as such where I'm located.

  28. #28

    Re: Power - what do you do?

    I have the Pure Power +3000 & love it. My use 95% of the time never drains more than 50%, mostly 25% of it's available instant current. If the power was to fail on moderate listening levels I can get around 2-3 hours of listening before I use the stored battery capacity. The sound is absolutely rock solid everytime I listen, apart from breaking in new gear of course. Very versatile & highly recommended.









  29. #29
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    Re: Power - what do you do?

    Thanks Kev. Very interesting. Pure Power and PS Audio seem to be the leaders in power regeneration (vs power conditioning).
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  30. #30
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    Re: Power - what do you do?

    Two channel system.

    Two dedicated 20 amp lines terminate into Shunyata SR-Z1 outlets.
    Line one for the source gear.
    Line two for both Pass Labs X600.5 amps.
    Line one uses a Shunyata Triton connected via a Zitron Anaconda to wall.
    Line two uses a Shunyata Cyclops connected via a Zitron Anaconda to wall.
    All gear uses Shunyata power cords; Zitron Python, Cobra, and Alpha digital.

    HT system.

    One dedicated 20 amp line terminated into a Shunyata SR-Z1 outlet.
    Shunyata Hydra AV connected via Zitron Anaconda to outlet.
    All gear uses Shunyata power cords; Zitron Python, Cobra, and Alpha digital.
    Bud

    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR for source, Denali 2000 (2) for amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson four shelf maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.

  31. #31
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    Re: Power - what do you do?

    I always say CLEAN POWER is key to excellent sound!

    I have 2 Balanced Power Technologies BP-3.5 Signature Plus Plugged into 2 20A dedicated circuits. I plug my source/DAC/Pre into one and my amps/speakers into the 2nd one. I feel with using a HUGE toroidal transformer from Plitron for balanced AC power and four stages of EMI/RFI filtration to ensure ultra-low background noise is one of the best AC provision for your system power needs. Infact V-Cap Teflon capacitors are used in the filtering network. I would say the noise floor is nonexistence and just as black as space itself.

    Output Power Rating: 20A RMS/60A Peak Power per unit

    www.b-p-t.com

    FRONT VIEW


    REAR VIEW
    George
    -----------------------

    Aurender ACS10 Music Server > Holo Audio May KTE R2R Ladder DAC > Pass Labs XP-30 Preamp > Pass Labs XA160.5 Class A Mono Blocks > Martin Logan Renaissance ELS 15A Speakers

    Powered By 2X BPT 3.5 Signature Plus Ultra Isolators | Shunyata Research Hydra Triton + Typhon | Shunyata Hydra 2 Power Conditioner

  32. #32
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    Re: Power - what do you do?

    Such a good topic. I have tried Synergistic Research Power Cell 10SE, Furman PF-15i, Equitech 1.5Q, and Blue Circle BC6000 as the "big box" component sized solution. I had my sites set on the Running Springs Dmitri but was so pleasantly surprised by a couple of small sized Blue Circle FX2 PLC units, I decided to save the $5K.

    All of my power cables are Oyaide P/C-079 or 004 terminated Acrolink P4030 ii 7N OCC cable. The FX2 work great and the Acrolink/Oyaide combo is outstanding (a great value for performance as well). My Outlets are Oyaide R-1 on the sources and R-0 on the Amp. I like the R-0 better than the R-1. If I need to "warm up" the sound I'll put an Oyaide GX duplex in the mix.

    The PLC's seem to work better (in my opinion) the closer they are to the component. I am also very interested in upgrading the power cable to a VH Audio Airsine or may be even a Pranawire Satori. I am sure these are great price point performers but for my system I think it may be in the diminishing return stage.

    I know that clean AC is paramount for a performance audio system. Even modest cable upgrades and PLC investments will yield great performance upgrades. I'd make sure the AC is addressed prior to upgrading any components, cables or speakers.

  33. #33
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    Re: Power - what do you do?

    Thanks everyone. I'm enjoying the responses - they are all vastly different approaches - with the same goal in mind: clean power.
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  34. #34
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    Re: Power - what do you do?

    I have an 80 amp dedicated sub-panel with a recently added fifth 20 amp line. I have a full basement, so running wire is no problem.

    One line for each of two woofer amps, one line for each of two midrange/tweeter amps and one line for everything else (CD player, tuner, crossover, everything else). If I think I'm going need more power than that, I'm going to sign myself into the looney bin because I'm probably doing something I shouldn't be doing.
    Listening Room: McIntosh C46, MEN220, MCD500, MR78-Modafferi modified, MPI4, MC602 (2), Pass Labs XVR1 (three-way), tri-amplified Infinity IRS Series V, TailTwister T2X rotator, AtlasSound FMA Rack, dedicated electrical sub-panel, NO TV!

    Living Room: McIntosh C28, MC2300, Revox B226, Tascam CD355, Thorens TD125 MKII w/vacuum platter, Rabco SL-8E, Grace F9-E, McIntosh ML-2C (2) & ML-1C (4) stacked, MQ-107, SAE 2800, Nakamichi Dragon, Tandberg 64X, JL Audio f113 (2), NO TV!

  35. #35
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    Re: Power - what do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by GaryProtein View Post
    I have an 80 amp dedicated sub-panel with a recently added fifth 20 amp line. I have a full basement, so running wire is no problem.

    One line for each of two woofer amps, one line for each of two midrange/tweeter amps and one line for everything else (CD player, tuner, crossover, everything else). If I think I'm going need more power than that, I'm going to sign myself into the looney bin.
    that is interesting, i always wondered if jumping a sub panel off my box is better than just running dedicated outlets out of the main box. would be better cause its a dedicated panel id imagine.
    do you find it better that way? im a backyard electrician. lol. love doing stuff like that.
    Steve

    TUBES & VINYL
    Is there anything else?

    Rega/Ortofon/Viva 300b/KR

    Music Reference 2A3

    Altec/JBL

  36. #36

    Re: Power - what do you do?

    Gary, thats a very relevant answer re the power usage & need. I think you may have the welder by the work bench covered too. But the biggest part of the equation is for people to come to a realisation of what their power requirements are & how best to cover them. I've used filters & conditioners in the past, I now use a regenerator as it ticked all the boxes & supplies the power that I need on demand.

  37. #37
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    Re: Power - what do you do?

    The bulk of my equipment is hooked up to an Acoustic Revive RTP-6 distributor which is plugged directly into the wall. A CSE regenerator that is also plugged directly into the wall feeds my Mac Mini and an external hard drive which stores my music (surprisingly, this made a lot of difference).

    I have another distributor, an Oyaide MTB-6 that feeds all my accessories like my turntable motor and phono amp etc. I have a DIY parallel filter there which consists of suppression caps across Live and Neutral and small caps from both Live and Neutral to ground.

    I tried a low cost distributor that features surge suppression and choke filtering - very black sound, but total loss of air. I also tried a small Torus isolation transformer unit, powering just the digital equipment - good tonal density but I felt it made the sound a bit too warm and heavy.
    Eric's System

    Sources : Mac Mini with Pure Music 2.0, Cary CD 500, Calyx Femto DAC, Pro-ject 2-Xperience Acryl with Sumiko Blackbird HOMC. Amplification : Conrad Johnson GAT, Conrad Johnson ART Monoblocks, Graham Slee Reflex M Phono Stage. Speakers : Focal Diablo Utopia, JL Audio E112 sub. Cabling : Cardas, AET, Acoustic Revive, Acrolink, Wireworld.

  38. #38
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    Re: Power - what do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Petro85 View Post
    that is interesting, i always wondered if jumping a sub panel off my box is better than just running dedicated outlets out of the main box. would be better cause its a dedicated panel id imagine.
    do you find it better that way? im a backyard electrician. lol. love doing stuff like that.
    The sub panel has all its lines off the same leg of the main panel, so all the lines are in phase. I ran out of breakers in my main panel, so I needed a separate sub-panel. If you take them off your main panel, take them all off the same leg of the panel.

    The two woofer amps are 2KW each and the two midrange/tweeter amps are 1.2KW each, so each amp gets its own line. Everything else takes very little power and is on the fifth line.
    Listening Room: McIntosh C46, MEN220, MCD500, MR78-Modafferi modified, MPI4, MC602 (2), Pass Labs XVR1 (three-way), tri-amplified Infinity IRS Series V, TailTwister T2X rotator, AtlasSound FMA Rack, dedicated electrical sub-panel, NO TV!

    Living Room: McIntosh C28, MC2300, Revox B226, Tascam CD355, Thorens TD125 MKII w/vacuum platter, Rabco SL-8E, Grace F9-E, McIntosh ML-2C (2) & ML-1C (4) stacked, MQ-107, SAE 2800, Nakamichi Dragon, Tandberg 64X, JL Audio f113 (2), NO TV!

  39. #39
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    Re: Power - what do you do?

    After a lot of research and talking to a lot of folks in the industry - I'm circling the wagons and narrowing in on three of these (one for each amp and one for preamp/sources):

    North American AVR Series | Torus Power

    TORUS AVR 20 POWER CONDITIONER at Music Direct

    Here is what I like about it:

    * Power Regulation (a must for me here in Florida)
    * The AVR20 (for a 20amp line, AVR15 for 15 amp line) can actually supply MORE power for brief periods than actually plugging the amps into the wall directly - therefore restricted dynamics do not come into play.
    * Surge protection (a must for Florida)

    ....still reading and researching....but I'm narrowing in on this.

    During my research, I found this site quite interesting: http://www.ground1.com
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  40. #40

    Power - what do you do?

    Mike, is the torus a regenerator in the same sense as the ps audio power plants? Torus "conditioner" has an input readout on the front panel display of less than 120v and output of 120v which suggest something similar to regeneration no?

  41. #41
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    Re: Power - what do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by tunes View Post
    Mike, is the torus a regenerator in the same sense as the ps audio power plants? Torus "conditioner" has an input readout on the front panel display of less than 120v and output of 120v which suggest something similar to regeneration no?
    It doesn't regenerate. Just condition/filter/isolate/regulate. I may put at passive UPS in front of it.
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  42. #42
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    Re: Power - what do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    It doesn't regenerate. Just condition/filter/isolate/regulate. I may put at passive UPS in front of it.
    I would not do that. It would then limit your power draw which then defeat the purpose of having a isolator.
    George
    -----------------------

    Aurender ACS10 Music Server > Holo Audio May KTE R2R Ladder DAC > Pass Labs XP-30 Preamp > Pass Labs XA160.5 Class A Mono Blocks > Martin Logan Renaissance ELS 15A Speakers

    Powered By 2X BPT 3.5 Signature Plus Ultra Isolators | Shunyata Research Hydra Triton + Typhon | Shunyata Hydra 2 Power Conditioner

  43. #43
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    Re: Power - what do you do?

    You're right. I spoke with Matt at Torus and he didn't suggest it either. So AVR20's and that's it.
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  44. #44

    Re: Power - what do you do?

    Having worked through previous generations of PS Audio Powerplants, including P300 and PPP, I now use a P10 to power my system, itself fed from ring main via a Furukawa 2.6 cable, and feeding out to components via Furukawa 2.2 and various other cables. The P10 is set to high regulation and mode 6 Multiwave, and puts out a very steady 240V AC.

    Dynamics are not robbed, just the opposite and benefits from the P10's high instantaneous current feed. The component which most benefits from regenerated power, surprisingly, is the Chord power amp with its switched mode power supply. Counter-intuitive, I know.

    The benefits are startling dynamics, black noise floor, greater inner detail, lower harshness.
    Asus/Volumio streamer > Mutec MC-3+ USB reclocker > LKS MH-DA004 DAC > Burson AB-160 XLR buffer > Belles SA-100 power amp > Usher Dancer Be-20 speakers. PS Audio P3 & P10 regenerators. Audioquest, Coherent & MCRU cables.

  45. #45
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    Re: Power - what do you do?

    After days of reading- just ordered an Equitech 1.5 Model Q. I will also borrow an Audience T6-TSS to compare both technologies. Balanced power in my 200 unit new apt complex seemed the right first step as I cant run dedicated lines like my former condo. I just hate adding a 70lb box to my system, but will see.

  46. #46
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    Re: Power - what do you do?

    Well scratch that- looks like I might become a Torus man. Dealing with Equitech is interesting to say the least...

  47. #47
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    Re: Power - what do you do?

    Torus is supposed to be good stuff.
    Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

    Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE

    NAD C 658 streamer.

    First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)

    Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.

    Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.

  48. #48

    Re: Power - what do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinT View Post
    Having worked through previous generations of PS Audio Powerplants, including P300 and PPP, I now use a P10 to power my system, itself fed from ring main via a Furukawa 2.6 cable, and feeding out to components via Furukawa 2.2 and various other cables. The P10 is set to high regulation and mode 6 Multiwave, and puts out a very steady 240V AC.

    Dynamics are not robbed, just the opposite and benefits from the P10's high instantaneous current feed. The component which most benefits from regenerated power, surprisingly, is the Chord power amp with its switched mode power supply. Counter-intuitive, I know.
    The benefits are startling dynamics, black noise floor, greater inner detail, lower harshness.

    +1. I have two of these on a UPS truck heading to my door. I have had very good success with these units.

  49. #49
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    Re: Power - what do you do?

    Mike...I just added a ps audio P10 about a month ago, and it's worth it. Really happy with the result. It really cleaned my power and gives me more musical notes that I never heard before. It's all positive and you should give it a try.image.jpg
    working progress

  50. #50
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    Re: Power - what do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rtan View Post
    Mike...I just added a ps audio P10 about a month ago, and it's worth it. Really happy with the result. It really cleaned my power and gives me more musical notes that I never heard before. It's all positive and you should give it a try.image.jpg
    Very cool! I'll have to look into it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
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Power - what do you do?

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