Marantz AV8801 - 11.2-Channel Surround Sound Processor (SSP) | Review

[NorthStar]

Earlier today I read this review from over at Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity ::

=> Marantz AV8801 11.2 Surround Sound Processor (SSP) - Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity

...And it was interesting to read (on page 5 - On the Bench) that when listening to hi res music (DSD - SACD - Blu-ray Audio & Video - DVD-Audio - Hi Res Audio Downloads - 32/384 - 32/352 - 32/192 - 24/192 - 24/176 - 24/96 - 24/88 - ...) with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 engaged, the resolution is down-converted to 24/48 with everything above 48kHz completely discarded!
...A limitation of the DSP chips; and not only in that Marantz unit but with all units having Audyssey in them.
More processing power is still needed, or more DSP chips (two or three ain't enough).
We still have some progress to make in digital audio power. ...Analog audio? There too; Marantz could have done some more in their AV8801 SSP regarding the analog stage. ...But like the reviewer said, it would probably have raised the price higher as well.

Also, on page 6 - Conclusions, it was interesting as well to learn some more about them HDAM modules in the AV8801 SSP.

Anyway, read the full review if you are interested (me I always am, in particular regarding SSPs and flagship AV receivers and Universal BD players and Multichannel High Resolution Audio & Music recordings, etc.), and that was all I simply wanted to share, right now.

[Mike]

Bob - what is the best SSP today?

[Paul]

11.2 channel ??!!??!! Wow I guess I've been away too long.

[NorthStar]

I love those type of questions.

That one, the Marantz AV8801 is one of the best ones for Home Theater duties. ...In that price range.

Your question is actually so vast that it needs precision, because a SSP is first and foremost a surround SOUND decoder and transmitter.
People use them in their home theater rooms for sound envelopment. And some of the best sound envelopment is from Blu-ray movies, Blu-ray Audio, Multichannel SACDs, DVD-Audio, and whatever else is out there in high resolution multichannel sound.

So, if quality multichannel sound decoding and transmitting is the prime objective, and if the digital stage is the one mostly used (HDMI), more so than the analog one (because multichannel analog outputs from players are becoming less and less important in the now world we live in), then the playing field should concentrate on that aspect; the digital implementation in the SSP.

Then you want the best DACs, the most DACs per channel (dual-differential) for all the channels (up to fourteen - 11.3), and truly balanced (using XLR connections). You want also the best implementation of all the best digital parts, and separate circuits for sensitive sections (power transformers away, even from a separate component). ...All in the pursuit of the ultimate elimination of noise and improved dynamic range, clean separation, and wide soundstage and imaging.
<<>> Tomorrow's state-of-the-art SSPs will consist of four different boxes, even five. ...When we'll reach the 8K and 16K high resolution cinema threshold. ...Or each speaker will come with its own separate surround sound processor (Acoustic Room EQ) integrated in its base, and its own mic implemented between its mid-range and woofer driver (tweeter's frequencies don't need as much Equing or close miking).

Ok, now we have to look at our usual suspects: Krell (Evolution 707 => $30,000), Meridian (Reference 861), Theta Digital (Casablanca IV), Anthem (Statement D2v 3D), Cary Audio Design (Cinema 12), Bryston (SP-3), Lexicon (MC-12), Classe (CT-SSP), Integra (DHC-80.3), Denon (AVP-A1HDCI), Marantz (AV8801), McIntosh (MX150 NAD ), Onkyo
(PR-SC5510), Yamaha (CX-A5000), NAD (Master Series - M15 HD2), Arcam (FMJ AV888), naim (Statement - MC?).

Like I said, I put the analog stage behind, because I'm thinking more HDMI connections here, to be in touch with that 2014 world.
If the analog section would be added to it would have to include the analog multichannel sources, if you are following me, and I would rather keep things in the digital domain here, all the way from in to out.
Some of these SSPs just above are putting a lot of effort into the analog stage, fine, but service yourself; meaning that if you are going to use the multichannel analog connection you'd better add one heck of a great multichannel analog source.
Are we still on the same page? ...We now live in an HDMI world of high resolution audio and high definition picture; in the digital domain.
So, this post of mine right here is about Digital Multichannel Surround Sound.
- Another day in another thread it will be about Analog Multichannel Surround Sound. ...And converted to digital and then back to analog? ...Yes for some. ...Or Analog all the way in, and out? ...That too. ...The best analog SSP on the planet.

Now, some of these SSPs have some sort of Room correction and EQ system (Auto, or/and manual), and others don't (you can buy a separate one if you desire so). Some people like one system more than another (Perfect Room, XTasY, XTZ, Audyssey, Dirac, Live In, Trinnov, ARC, etc.) and other people like none at all, or one they can download from their computers and with programs assistance like REW for example (there are others).

So you see that it is becoming complex, and the question of personal preference takes over at a certain point.
You would have to try them all, and with all the variations possible. ...Which is almost impossible to do for any sane human being.

One audio guru, and multichannel music lover extraordinaire, and reviewer of multichannel surround sound audio equipment, and also reviewer of multichannel music recordings, is Kal Rubinson from Stereophile (Music in the Round). ...Kal has been at it for many years, and he is constant in that department.
And he also reviewed most of the SSPs out there in the nearest world. ...There are others too, from professional in the film industry (pro film mixer and recording engineers for motion picture soundtracks, and multichannel music mixes), and it's a good source of information as well.

Mike, you know very well that I'm not the guy who experiment with all that stuff; but I do read extensively from the people who I believe have the best handle than most people in general.

From my extensive readings I would probably (if they have no HDMI handshake issues) love to give a test run to SSPs from Classe, Meridian, Anthem, to start first with. I am totally wide open regarding which Correction & EQ system they use. At the end I just want the very best multichannel sound in my room. And I like to stay digital all the WAY.

Which one is the best SSP today? I just don't know yet the answer to that complex question. ...And by the time I find out, tomorrow will keep coming up.

Read Kal's column, every month, and check reviews from the multichannel gurus from Europe, Japan, France, Germany, etc.

And like I said, my own personal attraction is towards SSPs from Meridian, Classe, and Anthem. But also Denon AVP-A1HDCI, and perhaps Bryston too.
{I'm using an Integra DHC-80.3 right now, but I am abso!utely certain that it's not the best; only that it was the one I decided on at the time.}

I hope that my answer is satisfying you enough.

P.S. I did not mention the Video equation at all because you can give me the best video processor in the world in that SSP and I wouldn't use it. I never use the HQV Reon-VX video processor from my Integra, ever (and it's a good one, with tons of ISF picture control selections, and for each individual/separate video/source input); I simply select Pass Through for all my video sources, and let them do their own video stunt (simplest way to operate, and my sources have great VPs to start with).
As long that the picture is passed totally virgin, untouched, without the smallest picture degradation ever, I'm all good with that SSP in that department.

SSP = SURROUND SOUND first and foremost. ...Then choose your poison: Digital, or Analog. ...And stay all the way in, and out.
...In only one of them cures, without mixing them together.

[NorthStar]

One last thing: The best SSP in the world won't mean much at all if the proper setup of everything is not optimal.
And proper setup includes the ideal speaker's positioning, distances, the right speaker's selections too (like with the same tonality), and if you're using one of the good correction and EQ systems, good subwoofer's equing (at least two), the right mic positioning, the right mumber of measurements (better more than too few), the right mic (quality calibrated within small tolerances), some acoustic room treatments (of course), and that's a good start. ...Using measurements and your set of ears.

Again, Kal Rubinson (Stereophile), and Roger Dressler too (ex-Dolby guy), are two wise axes when it comes to multichannel sound (music in surround sound hound; from both multichannel music recordings, and motion picture soundtracks).
{Kal is using the Marantz AV8801 in his own system at the moment (he bought it), and Roger the Classe SSP-800.}
-> http://www.stereophile.com/content/music-round-59

And a 5.1-channel setup (with two subs) is fine (7.2 too).

...And an 11.3-channel setup (or 11.2 or .4) adds more dimension without providing less envelopment.
Tuned bass and articulated dialog and full imaging immersion is a good sign of a well recorded hi-rez multichannel music and/or movie soundtrack. ...You just need that SSP and multichannel amps (separate monoblocks?) and ideal speaker's positioning to reproduce them quality hi-rez multichannel recordings. It's the synergy of all the parts working in tandem, including us, the viewers and listeners.

[just dave]

I like it, short and to the point Bob.

[NorthStar]

It's only one vision, among a multitude of others.

Any shorter than that wouldn't have been my 'complete' honest vision.

_______________

* Sometimes you don't even say one word and the entire world goes into convulsion and tyranny.
Other times you write an entire encyclopedia and nobody replies.

___________

[NorthStar]

Double post; I'm having some minor issues today with whatever force is stronger than my own. ...Computer related.

[Big B]

SSP
I'm leaning towards A Mcintosh MX 121 or Krell Foundation.Any comments? Any others I should be looking at?
Barry

[NorthStar]

SSP
I'm leaning towards A Mcintosh MX 121 or Krell Foundation.Any comments? Any others I should be looking at?
Barry

Why MX121 or Krell Foundation in particular Barry? ...Why not Classe CT-SSP or Bryston SP-3 or Anthem Statement D2v 3D?

- Yamaha CX-A5000?
- Integra DHC-80.3?
- Marantz AV8801?


About the least expensive one in combination with Dirac Live Room EQ system program from the Internet?

[Bachtoven]

The Audyssey MultEQ XT32 might discard everything above 48Khz, but the positive impact on the room correction often more than offsets the "limitation" of the software. I don't detect any less resolution with it engaged: all I hear is extra clarity and spaciousness.

[Mike]

Bryston or Classe. Krell would be nice.

[NorthStar]

More money too, and Barry did mention some' related to finances before (on another thread).

[NorthStar]

The Audyssey MultEQ XT32 might be restricted to 48Khz, but the positive impact on the room correction often more than offsets the "limitation" of the software. I don't detect any less resolution with it engaged: all I hear is extra clarity and spaciousness.

I'm with you on that John.

[Design Audio Video]

I have had just about all processors mentioned. I can comment on each but will list my favorite. Krell 707 with JBL subs and speakers with a JBL Synthesis room EQ. Everything else is a distant second. Krell Foundation Bryston Classe is a toss up. Then Anthem. The key is the Synthesis room EQ and JBL speakers. The compression drivers just do movies better than anything I have heard.

[Big B]

Bob
On an earlier thread I said I didn't want spend much on the processor. I believe I may have to spend a bit more in order to get the quality level I may want.
Barry

[Design Audio Video]

All mentioned are amazing products. Some just a little better sound and some with more bells and whistles. If anyone needs help putting together a theater room please PM . I have done many rooms over the last 17 years and many different levels. I would be glad to share my experiences with anyone who asks.

[Big B]

Here is my potential system so far.
Wilson Alexia and Mezzo front three.
Wilson watch (4) for surrounds or JBL Synthesis?
2 JL113 subs
Mark Levinson 533 to start
2 Jobb 225 to run the surrounds
Krell Foundation SSP
Oppo 105 Darbee
Shunyata cables if the budget allows
Stillpoints ultra 5

open to suggestions
Barry

[Design Audio Video]

I would go all Wilson because the drivers and tweeters will be very similar with your mains and surrounds. I used the Mark Levinson 533H for a couple of years with the Krell 707 and Mark Levinson 532H with excellent results. I just sold a bryston Sp3 and three 7B's and a 14B. Tomorrow we are installing a Krell foundation processor with a seven channel Sunfire amp. I will let you know how it sounds.

[Big B]

Great look forward to the feedback.
Barry

[NorthStar]

Bob
On an earlier thread I said I didn't want spend much on the processor. I believe I may have to spend a bit more in order to get the quality level I may want.
Barry

If my memory serves me well, you mentioned that the home theater (movies) equation (at this time) was taking priority.
And most people in that case use the HDMI connections.

Some of them surround sound processors put the main accent on the multichannel analog audio stage (analog multichannel connections - XLR and/or RCA).

_____________The Krell Evolution 707 (mentioned above by Design Audio Verity) retails for $30,000, and that price doesn't include the JBL Synthesis Room EQ system and speakers and subwoofers. ...That is quite a bit more.

And the reason why previously I asked you what was your main objective (music purity, or movie impact), and what type of connection you were contemplating using.

If my memory is still intact I believe that you mentioned a $3,000 or less price range. I might be wrong though.
But like me sometimes, we are flexible with finances, in the pursuit of a better surround sound experience at home.

Barry, how much is the Krell Foundation SSP? ...And the McIntosh MX121 A/V Controller (just got it - $6,000 list).

If your budget is $5,000 or less I will tell you which ones I think are best (I already did).
And if it is $10,000 or less, that too I mentioned few (Classe, Bryston, Arcam, Anthem).
And if it is sky is the limit, then it's James Bond double 007 - JBL Synthesis system or Krell Evolution 707.

It can go even way more complex than that, or simplest (I already made one allusion, with Dirac Live in combination with a reasonably affordable SSP).
I'm simply replying to what you're asking without going to extremes.
We're all different, and I only want to follow your line of thought.

And by the way, with a SSP like the Denon AVP-A1HDCI ($7,500 list), and with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 (extra $1,200),
it too is restricted @ 48kHz with Audyssey engaged.
But the DACs implementation sure does that it sounds better when using its Stereo analog output (XLR or/and RCA) as it is using four DACs per each stereo channel in dual-differential balanced mode.
And for the multichannel analog out also (B-B PCM-1792 all around).

[NorthStar]

I have had just about all processors mentioned. I can comment on each but will list my favorite. Krell 707 with JBL subs and speakers with a JBL Synthesis room EQ. Everything else is a distant second. Krell Foundation Bryston Classe is a toss up. Then Anthem. The key is the Synthesis room EQ and JBL speakers. The compression drivers just do movies better than anything I have heard.

Audio dealer? ...Or high end audiophile and music/movie lover? ...Both?

[Big B]

Thanks Bob
My use stays the same. 95% movies. The MX121 or the Krell Foundations 5 to 6 Cdn. That's not a big jump for the better quality. Hope to see Classe' tomorrow or Sat.
Barry

[NorthStar]

All mentioned are amazing products. Some just a little better sound and some with more bells and whistles. If anyone needs help putting together a theater room please PM . I have done many rooms over the last 17 years and many different levels. I would be glad to share my experiences with anyone who asks.

Here is my potential system so far.
Wilson Alexia and Mezzo front three.
Wilson watch (4) for surrounds or JBL Synthesis?
2 JL113 subs
Mark Levinson 533 to start
2 Jobb 225 to run the surrounds
Krell Foundation SSP
Oppo 105
Shunyata cables if the budget allows
Stillpoints ultra 5

open to suggestions
Barry

I would go all Wilson because the drivers and tweeters will be very similar with your mains and surrounds. I used the Mark Levinson 533H for a couple of years with the Krell 707 and Mark Levinson 532H with excellent results. I just sold a bryston Sp3 and three 7B's and a 14B. Tomorrow we are installing a Krell foundation processor with a seven channel Sunfire amp. I will let you know how it sounds.

Great look forward to the feedback.
Barry

Alright, I just read, now, these last few posts.

[NorthStar]

Thanks Bob
My use stays the same. 95% movies. The MX121 or the Krell Foundations 5 to 6 Cdn. That's not a big jump for the better quality. Hope to see Classe' tomorrow or Sat.
Barry

Yes, I was right; your priority was on movies.

ME!
1. I wouldn't go with a McIntosh SSP. ...I've simply read too many issues.
2. The Krell Foundation: I don't know anything about.
3. The Classe SSPs: Yes, I've read some great things about.

[Big B]

Thanks Bob

[Mike]

Barry - you could also join the "die waiting" crowd and sign up for an Emotiva XMC-1....it's coming out next month, no really it is, no really....LMAO.

If you are 95% movies, then go with one of the big boys: Krell, Bryston, Classe, Mcintosh (but only MX151). Sonically they sound great, but none of them do Dolby ProLogic IIz, so I stick with my Marantz.