Question for you experts...

[RuralTom]

Long time lurker, first time poster...

Bought a nice turntable to utilize a giant stack of albums I inherited. Sounds terrible through my Adcom set-up/phono pre-amp and am looking at some decent-ish budget older integrated amps for possible solutions.

Looking at an older Denon PMA 720 , an older Marantz PM 7200 and NAD 304. I kind of like the idea of the switchable a-a/B of the Marantz, but the Denon has it's plus side as well. Any thoughts? (I can get either for 150-300, and they seem like they offer way better sound than what I could currently buy new for that.)

WIth thanks!

[Mike]

Welcome Tom

[joeinid]

Welcome to the forum Tom!

Thank you for joining.

[ohbythebay]

Grab the Marantz !

First of all though, what table and cart did you get ?

What one review said about the Marantz
The PM7200 is one of the best kept secrets in audio of the last decade. This well-made integrated amp has never ceased to amaze me since I purchased it new five years ago. In Class A, the music takes on a watery, tube-like sound and still provides plenty of solid state bass slam. The PM7200 puts out 25 watts of power in Class A mode and 95 watts in Class AB. It has a source direct option, as well as a highly resolving moving magnet phono stage. One would have to spend more than $4,000 dollars to find anything comparable to the Marantz PM7200 on today's market. It is a true budget beater and an audiophile's delight.

Marantz also does not treat their phono stage as an afterthought. Its pretty well setup.

If you prefer after the Marantz, you can get an external stage.

User Manual for the Marantz is HERE
http://marantz.co.uk/DocumentMaster/UK/dfu_PM7200N.pdf

Should have added
Denon PMA-720 review: Sound quality
There is, however, a hardness to the sound that the amp refuses to part with. Leave it running in and you’ll find that hard edge starting to thaw – but only up to a point.

The PMA-720AE is a stubborn and uncompromising performer, with a determined sound that won’t allow itself to loosen up. That doesn’t mean there’s any enjoyment lost, but such a particular presentation means the Denon will favour certain styles of music over others.

[the professor]

Welcome to AS!

I have no clue on turntable tho.

[A/V Solutions]

Before I spend a couple hundred bucks on gear which doesn't get you far these day's in audio I'd take a look at the software.....just because its an LP doesn't mean audiophile sound......for every great sounding LP there is a crappy one (sound wise). I'm not saying you don't need or need different gear we always do but let's say your giant stack of LP's are rock LP's from the late 70's on into the 80's.....there was some great music but the sound quality went into the toilet for a fair amount of it (I'm just picking on rock music)......you can partially thank the silver disc for that. Thank god there were still a fair amount of Jazz stuff that continued to sound great. Another thing to look at are the condition the LP's are in as you didn't really mention anything other than they sound terrible.....are they noisy, have they ever been cleaned which makes a big difference or does the sound just suck?......If I were in your shoes I'd go buy an LP that has nice sound, you can get plenty of recommendations here......this will be a nice test to see if your system is up to the task.....Like I said we can always use new or different gear as its the easiest thing to blame but there are other factors to look at also, set up, etc......and if your LP's are of quality sound but sound bad on your system then toss out what I just said and by gear, that has worked for me in the past

[RuralTom]

Grab the Marantz !

First of all though, what table and cart did you get ?

First off, thank you all for the welcome!

I picked up a Music Hall 2.2 that came with a MH Tracker Cart. I gave a lot of thought between it and a Denon 300 with an Ortofon Blue, but was swayed towards the MH... hopefully a good decision.

I saw both of those reviews and still am having a hard time figuring out which to go with... each sounds like a good match for a certain percentage of the music I listen to. Maybe the Denon for HipHop and harder rock, the Marantz for jazz and the rest, I dunno. I lean towards the Marantz, seems like a good match for my totally geriatric, but amazing A70s.

[cmalak]

RuralTom...do you know your way around TT set-up? If this is your first tt, it may just be that the table and cartridge are not set-up properly. It could also be a mismatch between the cartridge and the phonostage settings. And thirdly as Jeff said, it could very well be the condition of the LPs (if condition of LPs, that will likely manifest itself in a lot of clicks and ticks - surface noise). If the table setup is at fault than you are more likely to experience distortion or tonal imbalance (sounds tinny/thin or bass-heavy, etc...) or the distortion increases as the cart gets closer to the end of the LP. Can you give us a sense for what sounds bad as that may help tailor the suggestions.

[RuralTom]

I'm by no means an expert on TTs, the table came prefitted with its cartridge and checked by the kind folks at Needle Doctor. The pre-amp may be a weak link, but matches the moving magnet cartridge. I've been cleaning albums as I go (my own as well as one's I have from my parents are vastly cleaner) as some of the new inherited vinyl is badly in need of it. The Adcom preamp/amp were OK in their day, and still sound pretty good through the BA A70s.

I guess the vinyl sounds a little thinner and less warm than I was expecting, especially when I A/B'd with a few CDs of the saem recording. It seemed that I balanced the tone arm well and as directed, but I'm no expert... maybe a little more weight on the arm?

I was considering those two vintage IAs as they were decent in their day with -from what I've read- good phono preamps and thought maybe that combined with a bit more warmth from being class A (especially the Marantz that allows you to switch between A and A/B for the bes tof both worlds?) might boost everything, not just vinyl, a bit.

[ohbythebay]

First..watch my video
How to setup a turntable - turntable and tonearm setup - YouTube

This will ensure you know your table is set correctly

Second...don't A/B between CD and Vinyl..it just doesn't work that way

Third - The MH Tracker is a pretty basic cart ..so don't expect miracles but it should still sound pretty decent..but know this..ALL CARTS need a break-in period..at least 30 to 50 hours of play...so what sounds thin now may bloom very nicely

As the the Marantz...if you can get it...GRAB it ...IF your adcom doesn't sound so hot to you...but if the adcom sounds awesome on other material but not on the phono, not sure yo have an amp problem..

Again, go back to step one of this message...

If you need any personalized help you can PM me anytime

[RuralTom]

I'd PM you but can't until I get a few more posts under my belt!

I'm about half way to grabbing the Marantz PM7200 at $280 shipped, good deal, decent system? I'm not opposed to trying things out, especially in that price range, I could use another system in-house one way or the other.

[Mikado463]

congrats Tom and good help / info from 'ohbythebay'. I don't know where you are in Pa but I'm between Harrisburg and Philly so if I can be of any help feel free to let me know

[RuralTom]

Little update... vastly happier using the NAD 304 as preamp, but powering up with the GFA-5300, I believe the phono pre amp to be miles ahead of the outboard one I have.

Now the big question becomes.... where to start more serious upgrades? I'm kinda leaning towards a good pair of floor standing speakers (likely older but high quality older speakers, I really had no idea that some of the equipment some of you guys have are more than my mortgage, lol), but I don't know if that would quickly show the short comings in the available power.

I think this is going to end up being an expensive journey!

[Mikado463]

Tom, the upgrade bug can be a contagious one ! For your thoughts regarding floor standers, what is your budget ? are you willing to consider used ?

[RuralTom]

Hiya Dave,

Oh yes, I'm all about older/used gear. I'd say I'd top out at around $1000 for a pair, especially if they can hold down their end of the rig while the rest slowly gets upgraded.

Tom

[Mikado463]

Tom, have you been scouring Audiogon ? I would suspect there or your local craigslist might be your best bet.

[Matt715]

Check out the Vandersteen 2Ce Signature. You can pick up a used pair for $6-800. They can be a bit power hungry but I drove mine with a AVR before I went with separates and they sounded fine. If you do decide to get a pair, make sure they come with the sound anchor stands.

There are a lot of great speakers in your price range, I'm sure some of the other members will chime in.

[RuralTom]

Thanks, gentlemen. I've definitely been scanning the local CL and added Audiogon to list. Definitely some great deals out there on Audiogon, but shipping begins to be quite an issue.

There are a pair of original Fried Monitors on Audiogon that are fairly local... anyone know much about that company's products? I've heard the name but haven't really been around them much.

[just dave]

Hey Tom we need an update.

[RuralTom]

Hey Tom we need an update.

LOL... it's been a long trip since December for sure. I never did pick up a Marantz but my entire stereo has been revamped, I've spent way more than expected and have quite a few more components than completely necessary. In early January I met a gent who turned my on to horns and tubes and my rig now reflects that. I'm mainly running streamed iTunes through a DACMagic, to a Soundstream C-1 into a Dynaco ST-35 and a pair of '74 Cornwalls (drove a 12 hour trip to New Jersey and back to pick them up, great condition original white grills and black 'replacement' grills... couldn't pass up the deal at $500!). I also use my Music Hall TT and Onkyo DX-716 CDP, but with an iPod as remote, I love having 85% or more of my music instantly available.

I switch around a little with a Magnavox 6V6 amp, pulled from an old console... incredible rich midrange, perfect for jazz, but 'limited at both ends of the spectrum for other styles of music, but rarely use the Adcom, I find that the horns are WAY too assertive with that amp. Upstairs I run the old NAD and a pair of Heresys, and another AirPort Express, but never got around to an external DAC as yet.
I picked up a pair of Paradigm Monitor 70p speakers recently (on-board amp for bass) for a song... but they needed 2 new tweeter diaphragms and I'm currently waiting for the one blown out mid-range to be rebuilt by Paradigm and sent back my way. Now.. will they require a new amp? LOL

[RuralTom]

Moving right along.... Paradigms were pretty 'meh', especially in light of the Van Ls I picked up. Now running a pair of Quicksilver Silver 90s through a passive pre into the Van Ls and Cornies and in the process of finding an upgrade to the DacMagic.... Bifrost on the way, I'm about a half step from a Moon Audio 100D as well. I got the Bifrost -with USB and 'uber' upgrades- used at a price where I won't lose money if I hate it. The Moon was recommended by a couple o' buddies on another forum, and they are on sale half off...

Anyone familiar with both? or with insight on upsampling vs. non-upsampling DACs?

[MDP]

Tom, I've always loved the Klipsch sound, I hope you're enjoying the Cornwalls.

[RuralTom]

I've rotated in any number of other speakers, Mark, but still love the Cornwalls... the Crites tweeters worked well as an upgrade and I have ALK Universal XOs on the way, hopefully another step forward.

The Bifrost arrived yesterday and I like it so far... tighter bass, better soundstage, higher treble extension, crisper expression and separation than the DacMagic. Still considering the Moon 100D, wish I could test before buying in my neck of the woods!