Open Baffle Speakers

**veindoc** · December 10, 2013, 08:10 PM

Recently heard Nola(ugly to my eye) and at CES hope to hear Zellaton(stunning to my eye). Nola's with eyes closed presented a very wide and deep soundstage and according to my buddy were incredible simple to dial in and setup properly. Other than low efficiency, would love to hear any positive or negative views on this type of speaker design.

Nick

**ohbythebay** · December 10, 2013, 08:22 PM

They are open baffle ? Crap..I thought that was a beer holder...no wonder I heard a rattle...Just kidding

Was it these ?
Nola by Accent Speaker Technology, Ltd.

**veindoc** · December 10, 2013, 08:25 PM

Nola Metro Grand
Nick

**joeinid** · December 10, 2013, 08:47 PM

Nick,

I had Alon Lotus Signatures for 9 years and Nola Micro Grand Reference speakers for almost 2 years. Just an amazing and musical speaker. I really miss the Alon/Nola sound. The Nolas were amazing with my Burmester 911mk3 and just about any tube amp. Those were the times that I'd play music and just enjoy everything. Probably the most satisfying speakers that I have ever heard. Jay on the forum here has my Nolas and loves them. Very easy to set up. The new models have upgraded drivers. They need to be about 3' from the front wall but that's it. Give them some room to breath and they reward in spades. Anti-TADs.

**veindoc** · December 10, 2013, 08:50 PM

I've heard very easy to setup and live with. How was bass and soundstage width?

Thnx Nick

**joeinid** · December 10, 2013, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by veindoc

I've heard very easy to setup and live with. How was bass and soundstage width?

Thnx Nick

Bass was very surprising considering the 4" drivers but they are long-throw which helps. Not the tightest bass but I never felt that I needed more. I briefly tried my F113 subs and while it helped, they took up a lot of room. I am not as picky as some. Give me great treble and mid range and I am happy. Very wide, deep and tall sound stage. Very electrostatic-like quality. I love that. Oh boy, I am talking myself into another pair.

**veindoc** · December 10, 2013, 09:10 PM

Both brands wil b at CES. I will give them a comprehensive evaluation

Nick

**joeinid** · December 10, 2013, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by veindoc

Both brands will b at CES. I will give them a comprehensive evaluation

Nick

I would love your opinion. Carl makes superbly musical speakers.

**cmalak** · December 10, 2013, 09:48 PM

Joe...which begs the question if you loved them so, why don't you revisit your old flames? Is it the visual aesthetic that you did not like?

**joeinid** · December 10, 2013, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by cmalak

Joe...which begs the question if you loved them so, why don't you revisit your old flames? Is it the visual aesthetic that you did not like?

I love the way they look. I've considered it many times. One set of speakers that I need to get out of my system (and believe they will be destination speakers) are the SF Strads. Those are truly speakers that push all the right buttons. I think spring of 2014 will be the season of my content.

**veindoc** · December 10, 2013, 10:19 PM

BTW I heard the series 1 not 2 which I hear is far superior of the Metro grand.

Nick

**cmalak** · December 10, 2013, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by joeinid

I love the way they look. I've considered it many times. One set of speakers that I need to get out of my system (and believe they will be destination speakers) are the SF Strads. Those are truly speakers that push all the right buttons. I think spring of 2014 will be the season of my content.

Makes sense.

**Jack** · December 10, 2013, 10:28 PM

Joe

Considering what you just described as your preferences in a speakers performance, I would suggest that you contact John Rutan at Audio Connection and have him set up a demo of some of the Vandersteens, especially the Treos that JA just raved about. I know you heard the 5A Carbon at a group demo and weren't impressed, but I don't think that was anymore of an appropriate demo than a Show setup in an empty motel room. If John thinks you are serious and you tell him what you are looking for he will help you get there. The Treo's are my next upgrade in the second quarter of next year. I already have a pair of the Vandersteen subs so an upgrade of the main speaker is all I need.

**joeinid** · December 10, 2013, 10:40 PM

Two speakers that gave me goose bumps were the Alon Circe (loved them) and SF Strads (still love them).

Jack,

When I get closer to a purchase, I will seek out another demo of the Vandersteens. I know several friends who love the Vandersteens.

Originally Posted by Jack

Joe

Considering what you just described as your preferences in a speakers performance, I would suggest that you contact John Rutan at Audio Connection and have him set up a demo of some of the Vandersteens, especially the Treos that JA just raved about. I know you heard the 5A Carbon at a group demo and weren't impressed, but I don't think that was anymore of an appropriate demo than a Show setup in an empty motel room. If John thinks you are serious and you tell him what you are looking for he will help you get there. The Treo's are my next upgrade in the second quarter of next year. I already have a pair of the Vandersteen subs so an upgrade of the main speaker is all I need.

**Jack** · December 10, 2013, 11:09 PM

Joe

I have been through a lot of speakers in my time, though not in the price range on this forum, and the only ones that gave me goose bumps were all 1st order crossover designs. The Snell Type AII's that my son has then the Vandersteens and the Reynauds. Before you venture off into the world any further of "reviewers" favorites I would only suggest that you contact John and Bob Neill and hear what the Vandersteen's and Reynaud's have to offer in a better than public demonstration setting. Both brands are more about the "soul of the music" than what sparks a reviewer's interest, though a Vandersteen speaker has been in the Stereophile Class B ratings for over 20 years. I have followed the reviewer favorite for years and always been disappointed so now I just follow my ears. I also understand that other peoples favorites may not be mine.

**Matt715** · December 10, 2013, 11:20 PM

I heard the Vandersteen Treo when they first came out and thought they sounded great. I really like my 2CeSig; I just wish they weren't so plain looking.

**Jack** · December 10, 2013, 11:25 PM

Matt

They may be plain, but they are what they are. Over 35 years of constant innovation and upgrade. I have had mine for six years and the Treo or the Reynaud Offrande Signatures are the only upgrade I see in my future. With the pair of Vandersteen subs there is no part of the frequency range I am missing.

**elegy** · December 11, 2013, 08:21 PM

Hi folks. I've listened to the Nola's but just hear sound - they simply don't affect me. That's not to say somebody else won't love them though. I opted for Zellaton Emotion's which are semi open baffle but will consider Grand's if I move into a bigger room. This is the first speaker I've had in 25 years (after my Goldmund Prologues) that make music. Does anybody remember those Goldmund speakers? They actually used the Zellaton driver but not in an open baffle. I listened to nearly 15 speakers before going for the Zellaton's. The 20 year old Symphonic Line speakers also used Zellaton drivers but good luck finding those speakers.

**joeinid** · December 11, 2013, 08:31 PM

Welcome Elegy!

Thank you for joining.

**Jay** · December 11, 2013, 10:06 PM

I'll chime in here as the current owner of Joe's former Nola Micro Grand Reference speakers. I love them! Very natural, easy to drive, beautiful (to me), with a great soundstage. They are the type of speaker that acts as a window to the recording venue as opposed to transporting the artists into your room if that makes sense. They sound phenomenal with live music and I'm always surprised at their ability to fill my 22' x 32' room with sound from a 30 watts of triode tube power. One other benefit is they have a large sweetspot so my wife hears good music next to me or when we're moving around the house. I'm considering a new speaker purchase bc I'm nervous about the exposed drivers / stand mount nature with a baby due in January, but I keep putting off as I don't want to part with them! Two years I've had them and haven't heard anything that makes me want to move on....

**joeinid** · December 11, 2013, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by Jack

Joe

I have been through a lot of speakers in my time, though not in the price range on this forum, and the only ones that gave me goose bumps were all 1st order crossover designs. The Snell Type AII's that my son has then the Vandersteens and the Reynauds. Before you venture off into the world any further of "reviewers" favorites I would only suggest that you contact John and Bob Neill and hear what the Vandersteen's and Reynaud's have to offer in a better than public demonstration setting. Both brands are more about the "soul of the music" than what sparks a reviewer's interest, though a Vandersteen speaker has been in the Stereophile Class B ratings for over 20 years. I have followed the reviewer favorite for years and always been disappointed so now I just follow my ears. I also understand that other peoples favorites may not be mine.

I agree about the 1st order crossover designed speakers. The SF Strads are 1st order crossover designed speakers.

**joeinid** · December 11, 2013, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by Jay

I'll chime in here as the current owner of Joe's former Nola Micro Grand Reference speakers. I love them! Very natural, easy to drive, beautiful (to me), with a great soundstage. They are the type of speaker that acts as a window to the recording venue as opposed to transporting the artists into your room if that makes sense. They sound phenomenal with live music and I'm always surprised at their ability to fill my 22' x 32' room with sound from a 30 watts of triode tube power. One other benefit is they have a large sweetspot so my wife hears good music next to me or when we're moving around the house. I'm considering a new speaker purchase bc I'm nervous about the exposed drivers / stand mount nature with a baby due in January, but I keep putting off as I don't want to part with them! Two years I've had them and haven't heard anything that makes me want to move on....

I am still happy to read that Jay.

**Mike** · December 11, 2013, 10:51 PM

I tend to agree with Jay. I heard them and they were VERY nice, but I don't think I could fall in love with them. But I can see how many would.

**elegy** · December 11, 2013, 10:54 PM

Thanks Joe - glad to be here.

**veindoc** · December 12, 2013, 03:03 AM

I will hear the metro gold on Friday and Zellaton at Ces. Nola appears to mix and match ribbon tweeters with albico based mid and woofer drivers. Zellaton has the same membrane layer and design on all the drivers. I wonder which gives more seamless integration of it parts into a uniform sound. Both have an upgrade version with Dueland and mundorf capacitors. My main concern is will I b eliminating side wall refraction and creating rear wall issues. I can only have rear of speaker two ft from wall. Carl M of Nola said lose my bass traps which currently reside behind my CR-1. Would love anyone's views on what is adequate rear wall distance for this type of open baffle design.

Nick

**elegy** · December 12, 2013, 07:00 PM

Nick - you nailed it regarding the Zellaton drivers. Even the tweeters are the same. It's ultimate old school German fanatical attention to detail. The sound is so pure that everything else really sounds broken. One caveat though as they need really good quality amps like Gryphon, CH Precision etc.

**veindoc** · December 12, 2013, 08:37 PM

I think my Viola Symphony has enough speed, resolution and current. Just hope rear wall proximity doesnot mess things up. I hear Nola metro Friday and Zellaton jan 7. Curious which will sound more cohesive.
Nick

**LL21** · December 13, 2013, 04:55 AM

Originally Posted by elegy

Nick - you nailed it regarding the Zellaton drivers. Even the tweeters are the same. It's ultimate old school German fanatical attention to detail. The sound is so pure that everything else really sounds broken. One caveat though as they need really good quality amps like Gryphon, CH Precision etc.

Very curious...I have heard great things about Zellaton, but not that many people have heard them. I have looked at their website...I understand they are coming out with a new statement speaker. But until then, which of their speakers have you heard? How is the dynamic capability of their largest speaker? One of the things I love about bigger speakers when well setup and well driven is that they give an effortless across the full spectrum at anywhere from volume 1 to volume 55. Thanks for any guidance here.

**veindoc** · December 13, 2013, 11:04 AM

at the CES, they will have their reference level. My need for a small footprint requires me to look at their emotion, grand and grand purist which eliminates a passive downfiring woofer and adds in some upper level xovers and capacitors from Dueland.If show demo is impressive I will go to NYC to hear these smaller models.

Nick

**veindoc** · December 13, 2013, 05:40 PM

Just finished demoing the Nola Grand Gold in San Fran. Setup was not what I hoped for but very revealing.
I had asked for 7.5 ft equilateral triangle with front of speakers about 3 ft from rear wall to mimic my environment. Got there and speakers were 6 ft from front edge of speaker to rear wall. Soundstage was more deep than wide and seemed to eminate 2-3 ft behind speakers. Not nearly the resolution of my TADs but nice. When I asked for speakers to b move closer to wall he politely refused and said all soundstage would b lost and said the micro grand would b a better size for my room size. On bass heavy pieces the woofers showed lots of cabinet resonance. Clearly nice speakers just not for my room. Still glad I went and still await CES.

Nick

**joeinid** · December 13, 2013, 05:49 PM

Thanks for your thoughts Nick. The TADs are HIGHLY resolving. That's for sure.

**tunes** · December 13, 2013, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by veindoc

Just finished demoing the Nola Grand Gold in San Fran. Setup was not what I hoped for but very revealing.
I had asked for 7.5 ft equilateral triangle with front of speakers about 3 ft from rear wall to mimic my environment. Got there and speakers were 6 ft from front edge of speaker to rear wall. Soundstage was more deep than wide and seemed to eminate 2-3 ft behind speakers. Not nearly the resolution of my TADs but nice. When I asked for speakers to b move closer to wall he politely refused and said all soundstage would b lost and said the micro grand would b a better size for my room size. On bass heavy pieces the woofers showed lots of cabinet resonance. Clearly nice speakers just not for my room. Still glad I went and still await CES.

Nick

That's really disappointing that they wouldn't demo them as you wish!

If they wanted to make the point, they could have moved them for you and then moved them back. I find it amazing when dealers get stuck in a rut and forget that customers have ears too.
Anyway, I heard both Nola and Zellaton at RMAF. Actually, the Nolas were excellent paired with ARC electronics (I've been using ARC ref gear for several years till recently) but the room was very wide/big and totally different from what I have at home. I also find them unappealing aesthetically, though they were very coherent and imaged well during my visit.
I was in the Audioarts room many times over the weekend, mostly because I had found their room one of my favourites from 2012 with Nagra and Zellaton, and I was interested to learn more about the Trinity gear. This year they were in a smallish room but the Zellatons had no issues and excelled with dynamics and clarity. They were paired up with a whack of gorgeous CH Precision gear beyond my current budget. There was no room treatment at all. Soundstage was super both in width and depth. Speaks were approx 5 feet off the back wall from what I remember. I would love to hear the reference dueland in NYC someday. As a current Nagra user, if I had space and $$, that would be my dream speaker. Have fun at CES. What Zellatons and Nolas will be there?

**veindoc** · December 13, 2013, 11:34 PM

Thnx Tunes
Only ref. level of both brands. Gideon let me demo Jazz several months ago. Good guy who plays great music. He claims these speakers r easy to set up but rear wall proximity with any port or baffle is typically an issue. I now know Raidho and Nola really get good with rear wall large gap. Side wall more of an issue with my TAD but room treatments have greatly improved this issue. CR-1 has only a front firing port. If Zellatin somewhat damped looking rear baffle has modest rear wall interaction I am happy to go to Manhatten and hear the exact model I am considering. The Nola away from wall had a soundstage that was like 3 ft behind speakers. My room I like width and depth but like to b in the 3d envelope as I do almost(7.5ft) near field listening. The Nola were as if the sweetspot was in a distant location. Not my cup tea primarily for my space and listening likes. Intrigued by both Zelleton and ocean way Montecito. I report after show

Nick

**Glareskin** · December 14, 2013, 07:36 AM

You can find the Jamo R909 for very reasonable prices nowadays. In Europe you ca find a new pair for under 4000 Euro and make no mistake: thee are top notch speakers!

Reviews:
6moons audioreviews: Jamo Reference 909

Jamo R909 review from the experts at whathifi.com

Jamo Reference R 907 (£6600) - Loudspeakers

Jamo Reference R 907 loudspeaker Page 2 | Stereophile.com

**elegy** · December 14, 2013, 11:19 AM

I agree with "Tunes". Grand's are incredible speakers and they will never overload a small room. My Emotions are 3 ft from rear wall and 1.5ft from side walls. Zellaton drivers are so fast that room issues are not as prevalent as they are with other speakers. I've heard Ocenway many times and they are simply boomboxes for the Asian market. Just not my cup of tea. Any Oceanway speaker will overload and sound boomy in your room. Another great speaker but sadly not imported into the US is Pawel Acoustics from Switzerland. Also older Symphonic line with Zellaton drivers are amazing. Viola is a good amp with great grip but it won't have the refinement of CH A1. I just got my Jan TAS and looks like reviewer Alan Tafel has replaced his Goldmund gear with CH, which he prefers. But Viola is definately a good starting point. I want to heat the latest Nagra though.

**veindoc** · December 14, 2013, 12:20 PM

I will hear Oceanway as it is in Viola room at CES. Nagra may have a new more powerful amp debuting at CES.
I hope Zellaton open baffle design differs from what I heard with Nolas wall interactions.
Nick

**tunes** · December 14, 2013, 01:26 PM

Nick,
What nagra amp info do you have re CES?
I'm using VPAs and really happy. Wonder if nagra will have an updated 845 based amp?

**veindoc** · December 14, 2013, 01:43 PM

heard a ss higher power amp is in pipeline and may debut at ces or early part of 2014

Nick

**playntheblues** · January 27, 2014, 02:31 PM

very nice.

**MichaelHiFi** · February 4, 2014, 12:17 AM

Just sold my GR-Research Super V's which are open baffle. I built them myself then another set for a friend. I sold mine to another friend and have yet another friend who owns them. Why? They sound great! Dipole bass that is so articulate, so fast and room friendly to boot. The waveguide tweeter is good too although not a good as the tweeter on the SCM's I've got passing through. Wow is that a great tweeter, damn.

I've always had an affection for Vandersteen 5's and love the Nola sound too.

Now I'm back in the market for speakers. Danny's Richie's best of show open baffle 2 array monsters?

**joeinid** · February 4, 2014, 01:15 AM

Do you have to build those too or can they be purchased assembled? They look cool.

**MichaelHiFi** · February 4, 2014, 11:32 AM

Those 4 tower arrays don't come as a kit. I believe they cost $120K! I'm going to see if they can't be offered in kit form.

**Mister Pig** · February 24, 2014, 12:19 PM

This last December I dipped my little piggies into open baffle waters. I bought a pair of Hawthorne Audio Trios that had Woodsage baffles. Crossovers are built with Goertz air coils, Clairty capacitors and Mills resistors. Uses the 10" Sterling Silver coax, and a pair of 10" Auggie bass drivers a side.

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They are a very interesting speaker, and the open baffle presentation is enchanting. This is a nice resting spot on my speaker journey, adn I can see these being around for awhile.

Now here is an interesting build from Woodsage of the Hawthorne designs, and they got me a wishing....

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Regards
Mister Pig

**Mike** · February 24, 2014, 12:27 PM

Mr. Pig - a friend of mine who builds his own open baffle speakers says these are the pinnacle for open baffle speakers. Have you ever heard them?

http://www.serenityacoustics.com/pro...thesuper7.html

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

**Mister Pig** · February 24, 2014, 12:39 PM

I have not, but then again I am only starting down the open baffle road. These speakers seem to be in line with the Linkwitz Orion and the open Supper V that Danny Ritchie at GR Research built in some ways. Throw in that Emerald Physics is one of the more recognizable offerings that employed a wave guide in an open baffle arrangement. Of course the devils is in the details, and glory is attained in the execution of the design. I would love to hear a pair and see what is possible. At the moment my interest in open baffle is concentrated on high efficiency designs as I use low powered amplifiers. The Electra Print 300B Custom is 8 wpc, and the N.E.W. DCA 33 I have is 33 wpc. So I need speakers that can be miserly with their power requirements.

Regards
Mister Pig

**SoundRebels** · February 25, 2014, 09:04 AM

Polish open baffle - ESA Revolution No.9. (26 650 $)
d65085d854a39feae81a41eb458281c5_XL.jpg

More on ESA - estetyka d?wieku wg. Pana Andrzeja Zawady (English version available on - http://soundrebels.com/artykuly/repo...andrzej-zawada)

0d422469a7bfe49699e19d8d898530d7_XL.jpg

**1390west** · January 30, 2016, 03:04 PM

I can't believe you're having a talk about open baffle speakers and haven't mentioned Spatial Audio. Their price/performance ratio is off the charts! Recently upgraded my M3s to M3turboS. Holy hoolpa! These are much better sounding and more dynamic than my large Magnapans, plus work very well (you might say ideally) with low power tube amps! $1595, $2595 turboS. THESE are must hears!

**joeinid** · January 30, 2016, 08:44 PM

Welcome to the forum 1390west, thank you for joining.

**Jack** · January 30, 2016, 09:49 PM

I've stopped by self a couple of times from pushing the buy button on the M3's as more speakers is something I don't need until I can clear out some. Even the "understanding management" is starting to look at all of them in the spare bedroom and scowl. I think they would sound great with the Music Reference RM-10.

**SoundRebels** · June 29, 2018, 02:00 AM

Another Polish OB. speakers - Ciarry KG-5040

Thread: Open Baffle Speakers