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  1. #1
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    What really is the perfect speaker?

    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  2. #2
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    Re: What really is the perfect speaker?

    I got a pair What really is the perfect speaker?
    Paul

  3. #3
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    Re: What really is the perfect speaker?

    “I am coming to the conclusion that only some type of horn is the only thing that can approach the speed, impulse response, and dynamics of live " quiet" chamber music.”

    Paul has a pair.
    ~ Bob ~
    "And it Stoned me to my Soul" Van Morrison
    ClickAudiophile Audition
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  4. #4
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    Re: What really is the perfect speaker?

    "3D real audio holograms"

    I've heard that only once in my live. And I know not many people have heard the same. Because if you have heard that, you describe the impression different. I was not alone.

    In fact we were not suprised by what we heard...we were suprised by what we saw.

    Because we heard a real Jazz band play. Each individual musician could be identified by my ears and I could even move around the band. 100% live and rea.

    But you could not see the band. That was like magic.

    20 years ago. No drugs or alcohol involved. And I never heard any hifi coming close to that again.

    Regards

    Andy
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  5. #5
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    Re: What really is the perfect speaker?

    When I heard these in Hong Kong, they have been the only speakers I have heard that sound the same sitting down or standing up and had the most " live " like sound I have ever heard - Effortless, clear, true bass extension and pure as running water.

    If I ever won the big lottery I would build a house and room to accommodate these and buy the amps etc to drive them into perfection.


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  6. #6
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    Re: What really is the perfect speaker?

    The perfect speaker exists only in the mind of the beholder.

    ...but I'd be happy to make you a pair.

  7. #7
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    Re: What really is the perfect speaker?

    A perfect speaker is one that allows the music to solicit pure emotion from the listener. It gives joy to the listener, and keeps one excited to get into the sound room almost every day. If you cannot stop singing along and are enraptured in the music you have found the perfect speaker.
    == Joe ==

  8. #8
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    Re: What really is the perfect speaker?

    The best speaker is no speaker.
    ~ Bob ~
    "And it Stoned me to my Soul" Van Morrison
    ClickAudiophile Audition
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  9. #9
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    Re: What really is the perfect speaker?

    The perfect loudspeaker is one that engages you emotionally - delivering musicality that potentially moves you to tears.
    Borresen Acoustics Loudspeakers, Borresen Model 01 Compact monitor loudspeakers with Ansuz Darkz T2s Supreme resonance control, Audio Video Manufaktur GmbH (AVM) Inspiration amplifier & streamer, Innuos Zen MKII music server, Ansuz Acoustics cables & accessories. Please visit my system thread hosted on Audioshark for more details. Disclosure: The author is materially connected to Ansuz, Aavik & Borresen Acoustics via friendship with an owner.

  10. #10

    Re: What really is the perfect speaker?

    "The Perfect Speaker" is an oxymoron.

  11. #11

    Re: What really is the perfect speaker?

    I would think the closest anyone can come to building the perfect speaker is to build for a specific environment and tune it to a specific listener's tastes.
    Anthony
    Analog: VPI Clearaudio Innovation Wood/Kuzma 4Point/Ortofon A95> ASR Basis Exclusive HV---->

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    ...........Cary 306 SACD Professional Disc Player---->

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    [Synergistic Research/Nordost/Wireworld/Furutech/SRA/Adona/Stillpoints/Track Audio/GIK Acoustics]

  12. #12

    Re: What really is the perfect speaker?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph R. View Post
    A perfect speaker is one that allows the music to solicit pure emotion from the listener. It gives joy to the listener, and keeps one excited to get into the sound room almost every day. If you cannot stop singing along and are enraptured in the music you have found the perfect speaker.
    Yup, I like my speaker. No horns needed.
    Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave

  13. #13
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    What really is the perfect speaker?

    Quote Originally Posted by Al M. View Post
    Yup, I like my speaker. No horns needed.
    Love my horns!

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

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  14. #14
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    Re: What really is the perfect speaker?

    This would be my wish list...
    Frequency response 25 hz to 20000hz...
    Easy to drive...94db or higher...
    Easy amp load...no lower than 5 ohm...no higher than 10 ohm...
    No crossover between 200 ohm & 2.5 kohm...minimum
    Ideally no crossover between 200 ohm & 3.0 kohm....
    Good of axis response...
    Use quality components...especially in the crossover & speaker binding posts...
    Stiff cabinet or frame for ribbons/stats with the lowest possible resonance...
    Coherent sound top to bottom with 3D dimensionality...
    Plays rock...large orchestra...a cappella with equal aplomb...
    Has a GREAT sound...

  15. #15
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    Re: What really is the perfect speaker?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob181 View Post
    This would be my wish list...
    Frequency response 25 hz to 20000hz...
    Easy to drive...94db or higher...
    Easy amp load...no lower than 5 ohm...no higher than 10 ohm...
    No crossover between 200 ohm & 2.5 kohm...minimum
    Ideally no crossover between 200 ohm & 3.0 kohm....
    Good of axis response...
    Use quality components...especially in the crossover & speaker binding posts...
    Stiff cabinet or frame for ribbons/stats with the lowest possible resonance...
    Coherent sound top to bottom with 3D dimensionality...
    Plays rock...large orchestra...a cappella with equal aplomb...
    Has a GREAT sound...
    Hmmm....sounds like Avantgarde Duo/Duo Mezzo XD or Trio XD’s.


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    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  16. #16

    Re: What really is the perfect speaker?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph R. View Post
    A perfect speaker is one that allows the music to solicit pure emotion from the listener. It gives joy to the listener, and keeps one excited to get into the sound room almost every day. If you cannot stop singing along and are enraptured in the music you have found the perfect speaker.
    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi_1282001 View Post
    The perfect loudspeaker is one that engages you emotionally - delivering musicality that potentially moves you to tears.
    You are saying "speaker" but you should perhaps say "system".
    Give me a good record of a not very complex music (voice and one or two instruments) and i get a good illusion of "been there"


  17. #17
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    Re: What really is the perfect speaker?

    Here you go Rob181:
    Daedalus Audio Zeus

    High Frequency (X 2) 1" Eton Dome tweeter
    Mid-range (X 2) 5" custom modified full range loudspeaker
    Low Frequency (X 2) 10" Daedalus Audio Dynamic Loudspeaker
    Frequency Response 22 to 24kHZ
    Sensitivity 99 db 1w/1m
    Continuous Power Rating 300 watts (peak power 400 watts +)
    recommended power 5- 300 watts
    Impedance 6 ohms (virtually flat / mates with amps 4-16ohms)
    Tweeter Switch 0db / +0.5db / - 0.5db
    Enclosure Type Tuned Port Aperiodic Vent (Rear)
    Enclosure Material Solid Hardwood with Dovetail Joints
    1.375" thick Baltic Birch & Solid hardwood baffle and back. Two box design.
    Cabinet Finish Hand-rubbed Oil Varnish Finish
    Cardas Binding Posts Poprietary hand braided internal wiring
    Dimensions (H"xW"xD") 74" x( 23" x 20" Base cabinet) / (15" x16" Upper)
    Weight Approx. 180 lbs. each
    Warrranty 5 years
    Attached Images Attached Images

  18. #18
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    Re: What really is the perfect speaker?

    Though I have never heard one...I am a fan of Lou's speakers...come very VERY close to buying a pair...just not the Zeus...hate the base modules but hey...that's just my opinion...
    Not sure of the crossover points...though running a 5" full range (Fostex??) bodes well for the midrange to be crossover free...love the REAL wood...

  19. #19
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    Re: What really is the perfect speaker?

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    The perfect speaker exists only in the mind of the beholder.

    ...but I'd be happy to make you a pair.

    Hook me up! I'll take the goosebump version please. Which is what I look for in the perfect speaker...
    Aurender > Weiss > Audio Research > SoundField
    Oppo > Lexicon > Hegel > SoundField

  20. #20

    Re: What really is the perfect speaker?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Love my horns!

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Good for you!
    Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave

  21. #21
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    Re: What really is the perfect speaker?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Love my horns!

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Destination speakers
    Paul

  22. #22

    Re: What really is the perfect speaker?

    i've never had a chance to hear true horns unfortunately. probably for the best as my room isn't a good set up for them either.
    i think it's telling though, that alon wolf's top tier magico ($ wise at least) is also horn based

  23. #23
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    Re: What really is the perfect speaker?

    If one is seeking to physically reconstruct perceptually, a virtual reality soundfield as David Chesky seemingly is, the imaginary "perfect speaker" would be only part of the puzzle.
    Knowledge of how to encode/decode, would be 10x more important http://www.onhifi.com/features/20010615.htm

    Now if you're simply seeking something "perfect" for you, choices abound. Many roads lead to Rome.

    cheers,

    AJ

  24. #24
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    Re: What really is the perfect speaker?

    Sorry, but I disagree with a definition based on a particular hardware or tight performance parameters. I have heard good and bad horns, electrostatics, panels, dynamic cones, stiff enclosuers, no enclosures, different bass loadings, different enclosure materials, different driver materials, ribbon tweeters, dome tweeters, diamond tweeters, internal bracing, no internal bracing, internal wiring types, capacitor types, complex crossovers, no crossover......and the list of designs go on and on. A perfectly measured speaker cannot account for it’s translation of an art like music. For example, I stay clear of teflon in anything. I know it measures well and is the cats meow in audiophile circles, but to me it sounds unatural. I don’t even believe the perfect speaker is the one that most closely mimics the live performance. Many a speaker designer has tried to duplicate the venue acoustics along with the detail of the instruments and vocals. These designs have had limited success throughout the years. The perfect speaker must reproduce music in a domestic environment. And do it with a limited amount of channels. Certainly no where near what a live performance does. And the speaker is at the end of a very long chain of events where thousands of things can go wrong. My hat goes off to the small handfull of designers that can pull this off. I havn’t heard the perfect speaker yet, but have come awfully close. I have high hopes.
    == Joe ==

  25. #25
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    Re: What really is the perfect speaker?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph R. View Post
    I havn’t heard the perfect speaker yet, but have come awfully close. I have high hopes.
    And what speaker would that be & why...

  26. #26
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    Re: What really is the perfect speaker?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob181 View Post
    And what speaker would that be & why...
    Two that recently come to mind are the YG Anats and the Graham LS5/8’s. The Anats (discontinued) do just about everything right and the Graham LS5/8’s simply sound absolutely gorgeous.
    == Joe ==

  27. #27
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    Re: What really is the perfect speaker?

    There simply isn’t one, that’s why it’s so hard.


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  28. #28
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    Re: What really is the perfect speaker?

    I have a pair of IRS v in built for purpose room yes it's funny a wall of sound no need to sit stand have to be ina locked head vice.
    I think Genisis makes the best speaker on the planet but you need a room for those lol.
    As for perfection non around but if you go for statement it's got to have most of it.
    In my setup it's fault is mid bass weight it has it but cant have the weight of a cone in lower mids
    But it does the rest great.
    Moving the towers in or out gets me most of it even the groan of big strings on a rosin bow. But hear that same sound on cones and know what's missing. Servo woofers Fix most but chase low end sounds so a boot kicking ona stage can have a bit of a boom. Stuff like this is perfection none have.
    Love ribbons , planners , horns. Don't know why but it is what makes me feel it's right.
    Horns are great but fail at weight in mid bass too but are faster above it.
    Stats are just too thin all over for me. Don't feel I am claiming I am a pro but it's still comes down to what makes us emotional.
    My room is big as my speakers too but as big as it all is. It's still personal when setup right. Close your eyes and that one girl is right there 16 feet back.
    Staging makes it real and mine can do some crazy 3D stuff like that cheasky guy says his tracks do this. But not much music has this.
    It has depth , height , width too but it's not 6 feet front to back unless it's one of his tracks this is cool to hear.

  29. #29
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    Re: What really is the perfect speaker?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alrainbow View Post
    Servo woofers Fix most but chase low end sounds so a boot kicking ona stage can have a bit of a boom.
    Hi Al, "Chase low end sounds"?? What does that mean? Whatever "boom" you have is a function of your room/system, nothing whatsoever endemic to "servo" per se (yours is actually quite ancient compared to modern stuff like Rythmiks Direct Servo). The loudspeaker/room modal interaction dominates LF sound perception. Understanding of what is happening is key to solving any issues. Therein lays the problem.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Alrainbow View Post
    Stuff like this is perfection none have.
    Unless you've heard every system on earth....

    cheers,

    AJ

  30. #30
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    Re: What really is the perfect speaker?

    Aj You have some good points but have you heard that servo system. ?? Servo driven woofers have sound type. This is not a fault of you consider all the good it does overall. It's just conssesions the best of the best has. And I am far from hearing all.
    Dsp fixes things too as it sucks the music out with it lol. No perfeftion
    as for my 30 year old setup stop by some time to hear how we good it was 30 years ago and how we have not gotten very far from them.
    what I mean is a one time hit as it decays makes the servo chase the decay. It does not boom per say it just does just decay as it should. It's a simple test to try and most bass setups may fail too.
    If you read my room below AJ I don't have phase or boom no matter where I am. But some sounds show signs of the tech used.
    Your stuff is dsp right ? So dsp fixes all of this as it makes sounds not music lol
    TUBEZATOR

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    Infinity IRS-V speakers with Xover redone by Arie Nudell.




  31. #31
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    Re: What really is the perfect speaker?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alrainbow View Post
    Aj You have some good points but have you heard that servo system. ?? Servo driven woofers have sound type. This is not a fault of you consider all the good it does overall.
    Al, there are different types of servo systems. They all involve some sort of motion control, to get the drivers to more closely follow dynamic signals like music. A woofer is effectively a damped spring, that uses it mass and suspension to react/follow the signal. Due to the large motions needed at low frequency, this becomes increasingly difficult for a passive suspension system to handle without overshoot in both directions. Servos monitor that motion and corrects (errors) upon it. If there is a "sound" to that, then it would be greater precision, pitch and clarity. Not "chasing", whatever that is supposed to mean. However, woofer systems don't operate in free space. The room around it contributes as much to the sound as the bass system itself, so separating the 2 is impossible. At best, we hear the sum of both. I would not wager someone would be able to tell the difference between a modern servo system (Rythmik, Velodyne, etc) and a SOTA non-servo system via a controlled test (deception suppressed)...in a room.
    I've heard too many "good" examples of both. My main reasons for liking say Rythmik servo, is that it offers as good clean, super deep output as any SOTA bling sub system, for reasonable cost. But as noted, getting great bass in a room goes far beyond servo/non-servo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alrainbow View Post
    Your stuff is dsp right ? So dsp fixes all of this as it makes sounds not music lol
    DSP is a tool in the toolbox. Far more important is to understand what causes bass issues and how to address. Yes, that can include DSP, but should be icing, not the cake. I prefer to address problems at the source, rather than to use a bunch of bandaids after the fact. Involving the radiation patterns of the bass, putting less sound power and coupling/excitement of room modes thereof (all repeatable/verifiable science based). Prevention better than cure method, YMMV. Servo and DSP just tools to that end.
    Hope you had a good Thanksgiving.

    cheers,

    AJ

  32. #32
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    Re: What really is the perfect speaker?

    Aj going to make a post on various file formats and really want your input please.
    TUBEZATOR

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    amps ML No.33
    Infinity IRS-V speakers with Xover redone by Arie Nudell.




  33. #33
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    Re: What really is the perfect speaker?

    My vote is going to be for the X Files

  34. #34
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    Re: What really is the perfect speaker?

    I think the perfect speaker is the kind unlocks the imagination, plays the music i like beautifully and has me listening to music I never previously enjoyed. They have to have enough detail to make me believe I’m hearing the little things,but not so much to ruin the average recording and they have to do it in my listening room without fussing about amps or cables.
    KEF Blade, Mc-611's, C49 rega jupiter, roon nucleus, revox tuner. Meridian dsp8000 se upgrade, meridian 218 zone controller VA Beethoven's, Hegel h360.

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Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com

Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.

Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team

What really is the perfect speaker?

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