Loudspeaker dispersion, Horn vs Domes vs Panels etc
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  1. #1
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    Loudspeaker dispersion, Horn vs Domes vs Panels etc

    Didn't want to tread in other manufacturers forums, but I've seen this question asked innumerable times.
    A large horn system, a narrow cone n dome speaker and a panel planar/stat/dipole etc will have very different polar radiation and dispersion characteristics. When placed in a bounded space/room, there will be large differences in the angles, strength and timing of both early and late reflections, vs the "direct" soundwaves launch from the speaker.
    The resulting perceived sound at the listening seat is a combination of this direct/indirect sound, affecting imaging, timbre, etc, etc.
    There are many other factors of course, but it is hardly surprising that the presentation of solo instruments vs full orchestra, will be markedly different, with imaging, soundstage, etc.

    cheers,

    AJ

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    Re: Loudspeaker dispersion, Horn vs Domes vs Panels etc

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    Didn't want to tread in other manufacturers forums, but I've seen this question asked innumerable times.
    A large horn system, a narrow cone n dome speaker and a panel planar/stat/dipole etc will have very different polar radiation and dispersion characteristics. When placed in a bounded space/room, there will be large differences in the angles, strength and timing of both early and late reflections, vs the "direct" soundwaves launch from the speaker.
    The resulting perceived sound at the listening seat is a combination of this direct/indirect sound, affecting imaging, timbre, etc, etc.
    There are many other factors of course, but it is hardly surprising that the presentation of solo instruments vs full orchestra, will be markedly different, with imaging, soundstage, etc.

    cheers,

    AJ
    Exactly my suspicion, AJ. When I replaced Revels with AGs I was looking for a different perspective on the music. Subconsciously, because going to a more expensive speaker, I may have also been expecting "more...but better" across the musical spectrum when what I really got just different -- and different can go both ways ...

    What I was looking for in the AG forum was the experience of other Mezzo owners with orchestral music and what conditions created the greatest musical satisfaction.

    The most surprising thing with the big, dynamic horns is, at least in the constraints of my system and room, they seem to do intimate "better" whereas large-scale comes off a bit too broadly. It may be an "I-am-there" vs "they-are-here" difference in the way the various types of transducers reproduce ambiance cues, and in a domestic room -- with horns -- the "they-are-here" effect of large-scale ensemble is limited/down-sized/telescoped by the relative small-scale of the domestic environment.

    Or I could just be talking out my netherparts and don't have the damn things set up right ...

    Parker

    Parker

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    Re: Loudspeaker dispersion, Horn vs Domes vs Panels etc

    Quote Originally Posted by pdub View Post
    When I replaced Revels with AGs I was looking for a different perspective on the music. Subconsciously, because going to a more expensive speaker, I may have also been expecting "more...but better" across the musical spectrum when what I really got just different -- and different can go both ways ...
    Well, those 2 examples are about polar opposites, pardon the pun. The Salon has extremely wide/even dispersion, among the widest examples of "narrow cabinet/cone n dome" category. The AG is a fairly large horn. Assuming the same room and roughly same listening position, you should get markedly different sound, including soundstage/imaging. The AGs will give you far higher direct/forward radiated to early/late reflected sound, the Revels the opposite. Quite a bit of sound will be radiated behind the Revel. It is well established what this results in. Apparent source width (ASW), spaciousness, depth, "precision" of instruments placement, etc, etc, etc, along of course with the perceived timbre and tone. A sweep measure at LP of both will reveal different sound power slopes from bass>treble, the Revels should have more energy going into the indirect field.
    There of course may be differences in dynamics etc, but you were mainly asking (I think) about large scale orchestral imaging/soundstage. That part was highly predictable based on basic perceptual science.
    Preference for one vs the other, is another matter entirely.
    As a speaker manufacturer, I'll try to keep descriptions of things as generic as possible, lest accusations fly
    So I'm speaking in general terms.

    cheers,

    AJ

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    Re: Loudspeaker dispersion, Horn vs Domes vs Panels etc

    You seem to be suggesting that the orchestral perspective I enjoyed with the Revels is not going to happen with the horns? I’m perfectly fine with using the horns for what they do best and getting my big classical fix elsewhere. I don’t want to waste a lot of time and effort (such as carrying those behemoths down into the basement, where I can exert more influence on the acoustics of the room) on trying to squeeze something out of the horns that really isn’t available.

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    Re: Loudspeaker dispersion, Horn vs Domes vs Panels etc

    Quote Originally Posted by pdub View Post
    You seem to be suggesting that the orchestral perspective I enjoyed with the Revels is not going to happen with the horns?
    Yep. However, maybe on smaller ensemble/solo the advantage tips to horns? Plus the horns were probably a heck of a lot less fussy with placement, plop them down, even relatively close to sidewalls, toe in a bit and hit play. The opposite of the wide dispersion cone n domes...
    IOW, pro/cons...and preference.

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    Re: Loudspeaker dispersion, Horn vs Domes vs Panels etc

    Yeah, jazz groups sound like they’re in the room, and when I’m in the back of the room (kitchen) it basically sounds like the room is a jazz club. Neil Young Massey Hall puts a sonic hologram of the man and his guitar 9’ in front of me. Solo piano is usually a command performance (given appropriate miking).
    I’ve got 5 Gallo Stradas with a pair of fathom 110’s in the basement — it’s a ton of fun on 5 channel classical as long as the engineer didn’t overdo the rear channel mix.

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    Re: Loudspeaker dispersion, Horn vs Domes vs Panels etc

    Quote Originally Posted by pdub View Post
    I’ve got 5 Gallo Stradas with a pair of fathom 110’s in the basement — it’s a ton of fun on 5 channel classical as long as the engineer didn’t overdo the rear channel mix.
    I hear you, judiciousness of the rear mix is absolutely critical, the science says it should be diffuse field reverberant ambiance only, not sax players jumping out at you.
    Even my 2ch listening is 4ch enhanced, as to me, that is far more realistic with acoustic based live type sound. YMMV.

    cheers,

    AJ