CDs and Downloads Are Dead

[nicoff]

The future belongs to streaming and... LPs!

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...ed-628660/amp/

[jdandy]

So lets see, by Steve Knopper's own references CD's sold 89 million last year and vinyl LP's sold 14 million. According to Neilsen Music those 14 million vinyl LP's represented 8.5% of all album sales in 2017. No doubt CD sales have shrunk from their all time high in 2012 but vinyl sales still only represent a fraction of CD sales in the USA. Worldwide CD sales are considerably higher than USA sales. There are billions of CD's in the world that are not just magically disappearing. The likes of guys like Knopper and others who have professed the disappearance of compact discs have been beating this poor horse to death, but it hasn't died yet. I am old enough to remember when the same doom and gloom was spouted about vinyl LP's. Wake me up when the arguments have ended.

[Kingsrule]

Excellent

Maybe now the download sites will set their prices where they should have been for years....60% to 70% less than they are now....

[nicoff]

I can’t recall the last time I bought a CD. Have not downloaded anything in over a year.
Haven’t bought LPs either but have been gifted a few.
Streaming wins it for me.

[Randy Myers]

I buy a few CDs here and there, and more SACDs, but download quite a bit... no streaming at all... would rather own what I listen to.... plus what I prefer in quality streaming would be the bare minimal....

[nicoff]

I buy a few CDs here and there, and more SACDs, but download quite a bit... no streaming at all... would rather own what I listen to.... plus what I prefer in quality streaming would be the bare minimal....

Randy have you tried Tidal (CD quality) at all? Since you already use Roon and HQPlayer, you could upconvert all Tidal streaming to DSD512. You may like it.

[Jack]

When Qobuz rolls out in the US after RMAF you will be able to get Hi-Rez streaming for around $25. Since with the currency conversion I am already paying that now for standard FLAC service I am going to upgrade mine when I convert my EU account to a US account. Should be easier even still to upconvert from 24/192.

[Alpinist]

This article is just another case of wishful thinking by the writer, who is probably a vinyl lover. As Dan astutely pointed out, CD sales are still multiples of record sales. CDs aren’t going anywhere and vinyl is gradually growing too. I like streaming but will continue to purchase CDs and high resolution downloads. CDs continue to be my favorite because they essentially last forever and can either be ripped or played. No chance of ever losing the data.

Ken

[CPP]

I bought 8 CD's Wed. The article is so slanted to his way of thinking.

[Mike]

We have four CD racks in the store stuffed full of CD’s. The old format is holding on.

[UltraFast69]

IMO many forms have their benefits, and will adapt, if there is music, there is sound...

Heck, I’m seeing cassettes still being made and reflect back to the Nakamichi Dragon.

With that being said, let’s all agree to leave the 8 Track to rest





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[still-one]

Just because some individuals on this site still purchase CD's does not change the fact that CD's are on life support. As additional CD plants close and production capacity decreases the cost of CD's will increase. This will drive more of the general public towards streaming. CD's will join the LP as a overpriced niche product supported by a aging "audiophile" market.

[Randy Myers]

Randy have you tried Tidal (CD quality) at all? Since you already use Roon and HQPlayer, you could upconvert all Tidal streaming to DSD512. You may like it.

CD quality is the minimal quality for me. I prefer the highest rez I can get... I figure, the better in the better out for up-sampling. But, I am just not a fan of streaming, I prefer to purchase my music. I have a hard enough time picking what I want to listen to; I don't feel like making it even harder on myself .

[CPP]

Just because some individuals on this site still purchase CD's does not change the fact that CD's are on life support. As additional CD plants close and production capacity decreases the cost of CD's will increase. This will drive more of the general public towards streaming. CD's will join the LP as a overpriced niche product supported by a aging "audiophile" market.

And some of us, just like music that you just can't find on downloads or an LP these days unless you want to pay some outrageous price. The more music the better regardless of medium.

[nc42acc]

Thank goodness for Amazon Prime. I don't think a week goes by I don't order a CD. Tidal lets me at least preview what I plan to order.

[still-one]

And some of us, just like music that you just can't find on downloads or an LP these days unless you want to pay some outrageous price. The more music the better regardless of medium.

There is so much music to choose from that I won't waste 2 seconds thinking about an album that isn't readily available.

[Mechnutt]

I think that if you are just starting out with music and do not have a big collection, then streaming make a lot of sense. Or, if you spend $100 a month on downloads or CD's then streaming makes sense if you want to save some money. I have almost 8 TB's of music and I now buy 1 or 2 downloads or CD's per month, so streaming makes no sense for me. My son will eventually inherit all my music, can't do that with streaming.

[jdandy]

Thank goodness for Amazon Prime. I don't think a week goes by I don't order a CD. Tidal lets me at least preview what I plan to order.

Marty.......I'm with you. Two new CD's arrived earlier this week from Amazon . There are three more sitting in my Amazon cart right now that I will probably order today. I enjoy owning physical media. Obviously many others feel the same way. I subscribe to Tidal for streaming but don't spend a great deal of time streaming music since I also have three music servers and four disc spinners in different systems that I enjoy using. Streaming music with Tidal can be fun if you can get past all the hip-hop and rap crap pushed at us, but I don't want streaming to be the sole source of my music library. The bottom line, to each their own.

[nicoff]

.....
My son will eventually inherit all my music, can't do that with streaming.

Are you sure he wants that?
If so, congratulations!

My children are millennials are they don’t care for or purchase CDs. They carry their music with them (Spotify, etc.). I am certain that my leaving them a whole bunch of CDs would be a burden.

[nicoff]

Streaming music with Tidal can be fun if you can get past all the hip-hop and rap crap pushed at us, but I don't want streaming to be the sole source of my music library.
.....

I hear this sentiment from time to time from some folks. I guess that if one is only using the Tidal GUI interface, some folks may feel as if Tidal is ‘pushing’ certain music to them.

I see Tidal as a source for ANY kind of music. One can choose and mark his/her favorites and don’t bother with the rest.

If one uses something like Roon as the GUI, the so called ‘pushing’ would immediately disappear since Tidal is only used as a supplier of whatever music that person is searching. That’s an extra benefit of using Roon.

[nicoff]

I often invite friends to come to my place to listen to music.

I hand them a tablet running Roon (with Tidal) and tell them to play whatever they want.

They look at me puzzled and often ask: “whatever I want? Are you serious?” Yes, I reply. Play whatever you want.

So far I have not heard of anything that they want that is not available. And sometimes I am talking about some old recording of a symphony by certain conductor and/or orchestra.

Often, I have to take away the tablet from one guy to pass it to the next guy. Otherwise he would go on and on listening to his stuff

I have nearly 12k tracks in my CD library plus several hundred LPs. Yet I can not tell anybody to go search anything they want in my (modest) library.

That’s one huge advantage of having 30 million tracks at your immediate disposal.

[BlueFox]

Works great while the network is up.

[Mike B.]

I still like owning the physical medium. I do add them to my music server and seldom go back to the discs. I have a internet tuner in my office and listen to internet radio stations. My guess is the smartphone used as a music server has cut into the physical software sales.

[bart]

I have three daughters (19, 24 & 27 years old).
Yes, they do own a couple of CDs... that I have bought!
They listen to YouTube and Spotify.
They never ever bought CDs.

We are the last generation that buys CDs (I own some 3000 (SA)CDs).
I love them, but since I stream Tidal and Qobuz, I hardly buy them anymore.
I compared quite some albums: CD vs streams. Often the stream wins (better remasters? Qobuz hi-res?) or is at least the equal of the CD.

Tidal and Qobuz combined cover almost all new releases, and a very high percentage of past albums.

[Hounddog]

For me, it’s a matter of being able to acquire content I can’t get on vinyl. If I really like an LP or an artist, I want to own it, not rent it and it’s often only available on cd.

I admit that the need for ownership is old school and my daughter certainly doesn’t share that view. I may be wrong, but I also feel like the artist gets a bigger share of the pie from a purchase than a stream, although I have nothing on which to base that statement.

I will also say that the PSAudio Memory player constantly surprises me with how well it does on plain old CDs (easily the match or better than the average non-MQA streaming to my ear). If they made more SACDs though, I’d buy lots of them.

That said, CDs will be here for a while, but I suspect they’ll continue to seriously diminish in sales vs online music.


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[Spock]

...They listen to YouTube and Spotify.
They never ever bought CDs.
We are the last generation that buys CDs (I own some 3000 (SA)CDs).

This week i listen in a portuguese radio some guy (from a music publisher) saying that probably the great recordings are finishing. 30 years from now, current recordings will be the best we can ear. Because no one is going to spend 10.000 €/$ in a high quality microphone if people only listen compressed formats.

[Mike]

Somewhat related...

https://www.electronicdesign.com/ana...022cf561ed0c0b


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[shadowlight]

I hear this sentiment from time to time from some folks. I guess that if one is only using the Tidal GUI interface, some folks may feel as if Tidal is ‘pushing’ certain music to them.

I see Tidal as a source for ANY kind of music. One can choose and mark his/her favorites and don’t bother with the rest.

If one uses something like Roon as the GUI, the so called ‘pushing’ would immediately disappear since Tidal is only used as a supplier of whatever music that person is searching. That’s an extra benefit of using Roon.

Sorry, even with alternate GUI Tidal is pushing music similar to all the Tidal's owner or the owners music. When I was subscribed to Tidal I got lots of email messages about music that I have no desire to listen too, even though I never listened to the type of music. From that perspective the streaming service that really takes your musical taste into account is Pandora and Deezer, with Spotify moving towards it. Deezer has what they called Flow, which basically builds playlist automatically based on your playlist/favorites. That option is the first row and right below are the rest of the rows, including new albums that were release recently based on your listening preference along with your non listening preference in case you do decide to listen to something new.

Edit: I used to buy a lot of CD's since Princeton Record Exchange a used CD/Vinyl store is about 10 minutes from home. I have to make it a point not to go in that store now, if I end up picking 15 to 20 CD's at a single shot, since the prices on the cd' ran from 2 to 5 bucks. That get's expensive very quickly if you just want to try listening to a new artist. So what I do now is use streaming service to listen to new artist/music and if I like it I buy it.

[a.wayne]

OMG , CD’s died .... ? I should stop purchasing ...

[jdandy]

OMG , CD’s died .... ? I should stop purchasing ...

a.wayne.......Yep, and companies like dCS, MBL, Kalista, Esoteric, Simaudio, T+A, McIntosh, PS Audio, Rega, Meridian, Naim, Bryston, and other high-end audio manufacturers must have missed the CD's dead memo. Many premium audio companies continue to design, build, and push the state of the art in compact disc players. There is no shortage of compact disc availability or top shelf equipment to play them. Yes, the beat goes on.

[Mechnutt]

Are you sure he wants that?
If so, congratulations!

My children are millennials are they don’t care for or purchase CDs. They carry their music with them (Spotify, etc.). I am certain that my leaving them a whole bunch of CDs would be a burden.

Yes I am sure that he wants it all. He has all my hand me down gear including my Parasound A21 amp. He is 27 and loves all my Rock from the 60's through the 90's. He loves Jazz, Blues, some classical and new age. We go to concerts together all the time. He has all my music as well.

[Hounddog]

Yes I am sure that he wants it all. He has all my hand me down gear including my Parasound A21 amp. He is 27 and loves all my Rock from the 60's through the 90's. He loves Jazz, Blues, some classical and new age. We go to concerts together all the time. He has all my music as well.

I am utterly convinced my only daughter will (a) give my stereo and fishing gear to a love interest who also doesn’t appreciate it, (b) sell it for a song on eBay, or (c) give it to someone who knows what they’re getting and doesn’t tell her. BTW, my fishing gear is just like my accuphase gear - durable, classic and supremely functional (and expensive as far as these things go). Neither should fall in the hands of any one in category a, b or c.

Apologies to the OP. This thread is about CDs.


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[nicoff]

Just because some individuals on this site still purchase CD's does not change the fact that CD's are on life support. As additional CD plants close and production capacity decreases the cost of CD's will increase. This will drive more of the general public towards streaming. CD's will join the LP as a overpriced niche product supported by a aging "audiophile" market.

Yep, totally agree.

That graphic alone is worth a thousand words. Oppo who used to make more CD players than all the high-end CD manufacturers combined, quit making CD players altogether. They obviously saw the big picture.

[bart]

This week i listen in a portuguese radio some guy (from a music publisher) saying that probably the great recordings are finishing. 30 years from now, current recordings will be the best we can ear. Because no one is going to spend 10.000 €/$ in a high quality microphone if people only listen compressed formats.

They still make many great recordings, and probably will do so in the future.
ECM, trptk, 2L, Challenge, Channel Classics, Alpha, and many more labels bring out splendid recordings.
The new releases Qobuz brings out every Friday offer mostly very high quality sound.

[bart]

a.wayne.......Yep, and companies like dCS, MBL, Kalista, Esoteric, Simaudio, T+A, McIntosh, PS Audio, Rega, Meridian, Naim, Bryston, and other high-end audio manufacturers must have missed the CD's dead memo. Many premium audio companies continue to design, build, and push the state of the art in compact disc players. There is no shortage of compact disc availability or top shelf equipment to play them. Yes, the beat goes on.

Dan, of course these companies do this.
Our generation has money, and huge collections of silver discs.
We still want a disc player, or at least a lot of us still do.

I do doubt if our children will still buy a CD player.
But for the next 10-15 years, there will be terrific new players, all bought by those born in the 60s and earlier.

[NorthStar]

That is true; our generation is loaded with money...Apple, Amazon, Google, Facebook, Twitter, Windows, Tesla, Bitcoin, New York Stock Exchange, Oil industry, Disneyland, Hollywood land, Guardians of the Galaxy, Star Wars, Avengers, Netflix, ...

Music is expanding; YouTube, Tidal, MQA, hires digital file downloads, iTunes, ...

Music downloads, really?

Lots of good classical and jazz and blues CDs and SACDs are still being made for the ultra hi-end hi-fi audiophiles, and we now have Ultra High Definition 4K Blu-ray movies with Dolby Vision and ultra high elevated resolution with Dolby Atmos from all the Hollywood movie studios.

It's all for us, the new generation of rich audiophile kids @ heart.

* If you are looking for among some of the best CDs and SACDs and Blu-rays look no further than in my own signature, right besides that musical note.

[jdandy]

Dan, of course these companies do this.
Our generation has money, and huge collections of silver discs.
We still want a disc player, or at least a lot of us still do.

I do doubt if our children will still buy a CD player.
But for the next 10-15 years, there will be terrific new players, all bought by those born in the 60s and earlier.

Bart.......You may be right about the time line, but one never knows what the future holds. The revival of turntables, phono cartridges and vinyl LP's is a perfect example, even though that niche is quite limited to those who can afford to shell out cash for the gear and the LP's. Vinyl can get far more expensive than digital very quickly, and again we are talking about physical media versus cloud based streaming to DAC's and portable devices. In the future compact discs may reemerge as nostalgic hipness as millennials mature and acquire greater personal wealth. It happened with vinyl LP's, so who's to say the same is impossible for CD's.

[UltraFast69]

I’m anxiously awaiting for The Jimi Hendrix Experience, Axis Bold as Love remastered SACD by Bernie Grundman using the original analog masters, with Are You Experienced SACD and Electric Ladyland CD following

My transport will continue to spin discs, no signs of mortality here!




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[XV-1]

CD sales plummet in 2018 - is this the beginning of the end?


The large drop in revenue goes hand in hand with the number of CDs sold. In the US the number dropped from 35m units (in the first half of 2017) to just 18.6m this year.

https://www.whathifi.com/news/cd-sal...ing-of-the-end


looks dead to me

[NorthStar]

What is more alive today? Ferrari's car radios.

And who nose after we're dead what's coming up...cassette tapes music revival?
New audio music forums will open up with Bob Dylan on cassette tapes and Nakamichi Dragon cassette tape recorders fully restored to their original condition, and with new playback heads.

It happens before with vinyl, it will happen again with cassette tapes next time.
_____

I buy less CDs than I used too, same for LPs.
I buy more Blu-ray movies and music, and SACDs.

What the stats show I'm sure I'm no part of it.

[kiwi_1282001]

Here’s the data for the US market for H1 2018


Streaming revenues up 20% YoY to $3.4 billion representing 75% of total industry revenue

Digital downloads down 27% YoY to $562 million

Physical products (CD + Vinyl + Music video) down 25% YoY to $462 million

CD only down 41% YoY to $246 million

Vinyl only up 13% YoY to $199 million

Music video only down 7% YoY to $13 million




Source: RIAA Mid Year 2018 Revenues Report

[NorthStar]

If Netflix expand with Netzic for streaming music they'll become the major force today and tomorrow for flicks and music streams.

The day we can stream analog vinyl that'll be the day.

[jdandy]

If Netflix expand with Netzic for streaming music they'll become the major force today and tomorrow for flicks and music streams.

The day we can stream analog vinyl that'll be the day.

Bob.......Stream analog? Sounds like an oxymoron to me.

[hifinutt]

I can’t recall the last time I bought a CD. Have not downloaded anything in over a year.
Haven’t bought LPs either but have been gifted a few.
Streaming wins it for me.

i do stream but i really like my cd`s . especially reading the sleeve notes

[still-one]

What is more alive today? Ferrari's car radios.

And who nose after we're dead what's coming up...cassette tapes music revival?
New audio music forums will open up with Bob Dylan on cassette tapes and Nakamichi Dragon cassette tape recorders fully restored to their original condition, and with new playback heads.

It happens before with vinyl, it will happen again with cassette tapes next time.
_____

I buy less CDs than I used too, same for LPs.
I buy more Blu-ray movies and music, and SACDs.

What the stats show I'm sure I'm no part of it.

And the ten people who do that will all know each other and probably hand out of the same web-site.