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  1. #61
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    Re: Are subwoofers bad for music?

    Mike, I have to agree with you about REL subs. I found them to be a bit slow in comparison to other subs. It has been about 5 years since I heard a few REL's though. They were not a good match for my Magnepans. I found the Rhythmik along with the higher end Velodynes and Martin Logans to be much faster. The REL's are musical though.

    I also feel that many sub owners have their subs set too loud or have the crossover set too high.
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  3. #62
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    Re: Are subwoofers bad for music?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechnutt View Post
    Mike, I have to agree with you about REL subs. I found them to be a bit slow in comparison to other subs. It has been about 5 years since I heard a few REL's though. They were not a good match for my Magnepans. I found the Rhythmik along with the higher end Velodynes and Martin Logans to be much faster. The REL's are musical though.

    I also feel that many sub owners have their subs set too loud or have the crossover set too high.
    I used to use REL subs, until a friend showed me Rythmik. I bought two and sold my REL R328 and got two Rythmik F12se. Couldn't be happier with HT and music.
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  5. #63
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    Re: Are subwoofers bad for music?

    I'm perfectly content with my twin JL e110 subs. Small, powerful when need to be, highly flexible built-in crossovers, fast and articulate, and so far, blend in perfectly with every speaker I have tried them with.

    And as for adding subs to mains that are fullrange, I added these two little JL subs to my pair of NHT 2.9's which easily dig deep on their own. Leaving them to play fullrange and adding in the JL's didn't exactly "add" more bass to the equation, rather added space, air and rhythm to the mix.

    The way I have them dialed in in my current system with the small-ish Sonus Faber Venere 1.5's, they blend perfectly. Granted, it took days of tweaking gains, crossover points, phase, etc, etc with both subs to get them right, but in the end, you can close your eyes and listen to anything and not tell there's subs in the room. They simply add a natural extension to the Venere 1.5's as if they are much much larger floor standers.
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  7. #64
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    Re: Are subwoofers bad for music?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Agree on JL Audio. I always thought REL was better until they sounded so sluggish with the fast Magico M3 drivers. As Jim said, “they’re adding nothing and in fact taking away.” Then I heard JL subs at a clients with his S7’s and it was superb. Seamless in fact. That’s when I realized how slow the REL’s were with Magico and other fast speakers and the superiority of the JL Subs. To be fair, the REL’s might be fine with Harbeth for example. But I’m not sure I would take the chance today. JL v2 subs seem like a safer bet. There’s also some great subs from Mark Seaton, SVS and others.

    Now Magico subs with Magico would be the ultimate!


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    There is no such thing as a fast or slow driver/subwoofer. I'm not trying to defend REL subs, but rather there was something else probably wrong with the sub.

    This is from DATABASS's myth section...

    "Often times people make the mistake that sound quality is in fact related to the woofers quickness, but in fact the woofer�s quickness is exactly related to SPL. The faster the driver, the higher the SPL. There are two ways to change a woofer�s speed. 1. Lower the frequency of the input its reproducing or 2. increase the volume. Sounds silly, but its true. There are many other factors that go into making a subwoofer sound fast or slow (boomy or tight) but that divulges into system design. What�s important about this myth is that speed is an inappropriate concept of sound quality."

  8. #65
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    Re: Are subwoofers bad for music?

    Welcome to the forum, thank you for joining.
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  9. #66
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    Are subwoofers bad for music?

    Quote Originally Posted by Toprahman View Post
    There is no such thing as a fast or slow driver/subwoofer. I'm not trying to defend REL subs, but rather there was something else probably wrong with the sub.

    This is from DATABASS's myth section...

    "Often times people make the mistake that sound quality is in fact related to the woofers quickness, but in fact the woofer�s quickness is exactly related to SPL. The faster the driver, the higher the SPL. There are two ways to change a woofer�s speed. 1. Lower the frequency of the input its reproducing or 2. increase the volume. Sounds silly, but its true. There are many other factors that go into making a subwoofer sound fast or slow (boomy or tight) but that divulges into system design. What�s important about this myth is that speed is an inappropriate concept of sound quality."
    There is absolutely faster and slower sounding subwoofers regardless of SPL. There are a number of factors that go into the speed of a subwoofer: driver excursion, amp power, amp type, etc.

    REL even discusses the importance of speed on their website: see “speed”:

    https://rel.net/pick-right-subwoofer/

    “Without the ability to match speed and dexterity to your system, that subwoofer will sound like a walrus in rut.”


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  11. #67
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    Re: Are subwoofers bad for music?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    There is absolutely faster and slower sounding subwoofers regardless of SPL. There are a number of factors that go into the speed of a subwoofer: driver excursion, amp power, amp type, etc.

    REL even discusses the importance of speed on their website: see “speed”:

    https://rel.net/pick-right-subwoofer/

    “Without the ability to match speed and dexterity to your system, that subwoofer will sound like a walrus in rut.”


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    What about the Usain Bolt subs? I hear they are really fast.
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  13. #68
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    Re: Are subwoofers bad for music?

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    What about the Usain Bolt subs? I hear they are really fast.
    LOL


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  14. #69
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    Re: Are subwoofers bad for music?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    There is absolutely faster and slower sounding subwoofers regardless of SPL. There are a number of factors that go into the speed of a subwoofer: driver excursion, amp power, amp type, etc.

    REL even discusses the importance of speed on their website: see “speed”:

    “Without the ability to match speed and dexterity to your system, that subwoofer will sound like a walrus in rut.”


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Lol REL's webpage is all marketing gobbledygook. They themselves can't even describe what exactly is "fast" or "slow" about the subwoofer. I am actually a bit disappointed in them. The whole webpage sounds like a scam to convince people to buy their subs because they are "faster" "richer" or "warmer".

    I'm not saying things can't sound "slow/fast" or "boomy/tight" or really whatever adjective you want to use... The point I was trying to make is that fast and slow is not the right way to describe it, because its kind of meaningless. The only part of a subwoofer thats moving is the diaphragm and the speed of the diaphragm is dependent on SPL and frequency that its playing.

    If you felt the REL sub was "slow", its probably a problem with distortion or room resonances making it sound that way.

    As far as matching the "speed" of the sub and speaker... I have yet to encounter an acoustical engineer explain what that means and I've asked...

  15. #70
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    Re: Are subwoofers bad for music?

    This may help you https://www.soundstage.com/maxdb/maxdb061999.htm

    or http://www.theabsolutesound.com/arti...ass-tas-197-1/

    I'd have to find a white paper or something to explain motor structure etc. I don't feel that helpful at this point, LOL Just out of time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toprahman View Post
    Lol REL's webpage is all marketing gobbledygook. They themselves can't even describe what exactly is "fast" or "slow" about the subwoofer. I am actually a bit disappointed in them. The whole webpage sounds like a scam to convince people to buy their subs because they are "faster" "richer" or "warmer".

    I'm not saying things can't sound "slow/fast" or "boomy/tight" or really whatever adjective you want to use... The point I was trying to make is that fast and slow is not the right way to describe it, because its kind of meaningless. The only part of a subwoofer thats moving is the diaphragm and the speed of the diaphragm is dependent on SPL and frequency that its playing.

    If you felt the REL sub was "slow", its probably a problem with distortion or room resonances making it sound that way.

    As far as matching the "speed" of the sub and speaker... I have yet to encounter an acoustical engineer explain what that means and I've asked...
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