Results 1 to 50 of 113
-
July 20, 2018, 08:48 PM #1
- Join Date
- Nov 2014
- Posts
- 2,089
My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
My analog front end is a VPI classic, Benz Ace Cartridge, and Nova II phono preamp.
My current digital front end is Roon/HQPlayer/T+A DAC8 DSD.
I believe that price wise both front ends are equivalent. (about $5k).
However, You do need a computer to run Roon and HQPlayer but most people already own one.
My Recent experience: The sound coming out of the digital front end is outstanding. The analog was always my reference but now my digital tops my analog.
My conclusion is that dollar for dollar, if all you want to spend is $5k for a front end, digital gives you better value and sound.
Today I do not know where the dollar threshold would be when analog can sound better than digital. But not too long ago, it was easy for a relatively cheap analog front end to beat digital products costing much more.
Times are changing.
-
July 20, 2018, 09:12 PM #2
Re: My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
-
July 20, 2018, 09:43 PM #3
- Join Date
- Jun 2014
- Location
- Ann Arbor, MI
- Posts
- 239
Re: My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
$5k can get you a very good DAC. $5k won't get you much in a turntable, let alone a turntable/arm/cartridge/pre.
-
July 20, 2018, 11:34 PM #4
- Join Date
- Nov 2014
- Posts
- 2,089
My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
Yes I compared several recordings the digital and analog versions. Different genres as well. The digital version was: more dynamic, sound was cleaner (that's aside from ticks and pops), more details in vocals, better detail in instruments.
I am upsampling everything to DSD512. The sound feels 'analog', not fatiguing at all.
I will be listening less to LPs. That's for sure.
-
July 20, 2018, 11:43 PM #5
- Join Date
- Nov 2014
- Posts
- 2,089
Re: My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
I agree. And that is why I demurred how much would someone have to invest in an analog set up to match the $5k digital front end I described.
So, if it takes $20k or whatever in an analog set up to match a $5k digital set up, I for one and probably others will be thinking why bother.
-
July 20, 2018, 11:52 PM #6
Re: My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
Don’t forget digital offers incredible flexibility, and reliability, over analog. With digital you can either listen to an album, or make playlists of favorite songs, or genres. No longer will you accidentally ruin an album, or break a stylus. Those days are over.
Welcome to the real world.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fqP1Aj79nWUBud
Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD
Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR for source, Denali 2000 (2) for amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson four shelf maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits.
-
July 21, 2018, 05:32 AM #7
- Join Date
- Apr 2015
- Posts
- 634
Re: My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
That's right. I love the super expensive turntables of my friends (we're talking north of $ 50k incl. phonostage) and admire them -- how the hell can something have such incredibly precise mechanics to get so much info out of that little groove? But I honestly don't think they have much of an edge over my $ 6.5k CD replay setup. Someone else may feel differently.
And you have all the inconvenience. I would never go back to vinyl in my own system.Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave
-
July 21, 2018, 07:20 AM #8
Re: My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
Yup, as you should with lower noise and higher dynamic range http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=6234
Plus my protracted ritual consists on press Power, click Play, become immersed (literally) in music, a virtual reality of the concert halls I've attended. Concert halls whose reality doesn't include clicks, pops, rumble, flutter, constricted dynamic range, spatially deprived studio constructed stereophony, etc, etc.
The vinylphiles must still be asleep
-
July 21, 2018, 07:49 AM #9
-
July 21, 2018, 11:22 AM #10
Re: My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
From your link:
And it doesn’t really matter whether you consume these recordings from vinyl LPs or CDs. The dynamic range of an actual performance isn’t maintained from recording sessions to distribution format. Yes, the potential of PCM digital to maintain every dynamic nuance present during the original performance is there. But it is almost never realized. The music business doesn’t want their releases to have real world dynamics
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
-
July 21, 2018, 11:45 AM #11
-
July 21, 2018, 12:49 PM #12
- Join Date
- Nov 2014
- Posts
- 2,089
My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
Let me just add that to my ears the upsampling and conversion to DSD512 make regular CDs and Tidal (16/44) sound just as good as the pricier hi-rez without spending any extra money on Hi Rez downloads.
-
July 22, 2018, 01:58 AM #13
- Join Date
- Oct 2015
- Location
- FRANCE
- Posts
- 353
Re: My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
My analog front end is a VPI classic 3, Audio Technica ART 7, and Esoteric E03 phono preamp.
My current digital front end is Mark Levinson N°360S + Grimm CC1 + Marantz SA7S1....
I can affirm that my VPI has a better sound than my CD player. There is no doubt.
That's why I have bought an Esoteric K03XS, I listen it with the Grimm CC1 and I can say that with the K03XS, the ML 360S has another sound...
-
July 22, 2018, 09:57 AM #14
Re: My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
Very difficult when comparing same recordings , if originally a digital recording it will sound better than the analog LP and if originally an analog pressings will be worse in digital. The EQ necessary for Analog reproduction and mastering is a big contributor to the difference.
-
July 22, 2018, 10:01 AM #15
-
July 22, 2018, 10:03 AM #16
-
July 22, 2018, 03:16 PM #17
- Join Date
- Nov 2014
- Posts
- 2,089
-
July 22, 2018, 04:38 PM #18
- Join Date
- Apr 2015
- Posts
- 634
Re: My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
Seems a fair comparison.
Another thing that I noticed: While there are stellar orchestral and piano recordings on vinyl, I have not yet heard a string quartet recording on my friends' turntables that is as realistic to my ears as high quality digital recordings of string quartets that I have. It seems to be something in the older analog or miking process that added coloration and masked fine transient information. I was disappointed about the sound quality on CD of Mozart string quartets played by the Alban Berg Quartet in the 1970s (love their interpretation). I thought perhaps it was a bad digital transfer, but then I heard the same type of coloration from string quartets on LP, recorded in the same time period. There are though some older analog recordings of solo violin that are excellent.
In any case, when it comes to string quartets, I'll take digital over vinyl any day.Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave
-
July 22, 2018, 04:45 PM #19
- Join Date
- Apr 2015
- Posts
- 634
Re: My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
I should add that the Janaki Trio Debut on Yarlung Records can sound excellent on LP. That is a modern recording of a string trio (the LP is from analog tape I believe, the CD is a digital recording), but it is still not a string quartet.
-
July 22, 2018, 06:20 PM #20
Re: My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
I dunno ,
Dont view them mutually exclusive at all and with plenty of exposure with both at all levels of the spectrum , including but not limited to the actual recording process and mastering of both , analog gives up nothing to digital except for convenience and storage. It does take a bigger effort to get by top digital today , but mostly because most TT systems are poorly setup and configured to begin with , not many pay attn to stylus profiles necessary for certain recordings from different era’s and how important SUT or Phono Pre’s quality are , yet i understand fully why most cant be bothered and its old knowledge to get them done correctly..
To compare an HD digital file to less than a direct master LP is not a proper comparison IMO ...
regards
-
July 22, 2018, 06:29 PM #21
Re: My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
I'm currently comparing digital and turntable of similar price Lumin A1 vs Garrard 301 EMT cart shindo preamp and so far the turntable is a noticeable step up, sounds more real like musicians are in the room, more color more texture more to give me goose bumps. The Lumin is very clear like pristine water it's very enjoyable, but I wonder if our different results have more to do with the system as a whole. I noticed on a high end linn demo there streamer sounded better than there turntable and I got home and noticed the opposite with my system.
-
July 22, 2018, 06:36 PM #22
Re: My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
Yes it can be very system related , if optimized or more specifically compromised to suit one better than the other can sway results , iMO LP playback software is very quality sensitive much more so than digital ..
regards
-
July 22, 2018, 06:46 PM #23
Re: My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
This is of course, utter nonsense.
http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=6234
Analog is inferior by every metric, but some ears/systems are too poor for it to be noticed and some just prefer that noisier, lower dynamic range, wider timing/temporal errors, etc, etc, etc.
As JGH said:
Do you still feel the high-end audio industry has lost its way in the manner you described 15 years ago?
Not in the same manner; there's no hope now. Audio actually used to have a goal: perfect reproduction of the sound of real music performed in a real space. That was found difficult to achieve, and it was abandoned when most music lovers, who almost never heard anything except amplified music anyway, forgot what "the real thing" had sounded like. Today, "good" sound is whatever one likes. As Art Dudley so succinctly said [in his January 2004 "Listening," see "Letters," p.9], fidelity is irrelevant to music.
Since the only measure of sound quality is that the listener likes it, that has pretty well put an end to audio advancement, because different people rarely agree about sound quality. Abandoning the acoustical-instrument standard, and the mindless acceptance of voodoo science, were not parts of my original vision.
I remember you strongly feeling back in 1992 that multichannel/surround reproduction was the only chance the industry had for getting back on course.
With fidelity in stagnation, spatiality was the only area of improvement left.
As you were so committed to surround, do you feel that the commercial failures of DVD-Audio and SACD could have been avoided?
I doubt it. No audio product has ever succeeded because it was better, only because it was cheaper, smaller, or easier to use. Your generation of music lovers will probably be the last that even think about fidelity.
Judging by online forums and by the e-mail I receive, there are currently three areas of passion for audiophiles: vinyl playback, headphone listening, and music servers. Are you surprised by this?
I find them all boring, but nothing surprises me any more.
Do you see any signs of future vitality in high-end audio?
Vitality? Don't make me laugh. Audio as a hobby is dying, largely by its own hand. As far as the real world is concerned, high-end audio lost its credibility during the 1980s, when it flatly refused to submit to the kind of basic honesty controls (double-blind testing, for example) that had legitimized every other serious scientific endeavor since Pascal. [This refusal] is a source of endless derisive amusement among rational people and of perpetual embarrassment for me, because I am associated by so many people with the mess my disciples made of spreading my gospel. For the record: I never, ever claimed that measurements don't matter. What I said (and very often, at that) was, they don't always tell the whole story. Not quite the same thing.
Remember those loudspeaker shoot-outs we used to have during our annual writer gatherings in Santa Fe? The frequent occasions when various reviewers would repeatedly choose the same loudspeaker as their favorite (or least-favorite) model? That was all the proof needed that [blind] testing does work, aside from the fact that it's (still) the only honest kind. It also suggested that simple ear training, with DBT confirmation, could have built the kind of listening confidence among talented reviewers that might have made a world of difference in the outcome of high-end audio.
Yet you achieved so much, Gordon.
I know I did, and my whole excuse for it—a love for the sound of live classical music—lost its relevance in the US within 10 years. I was done in by time, history, and the most spoiled, destructive generation of irresponsible brats the world has ever seen. (I refer, of course, to the Boomers.)
cheers,
AJ
-
July 22, 2018, 06:52 PM #24
- Join Date
- Nov 2014
- Posts
- 2,089
My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
Deleted.
-
July 22, 2018, 07:14 PM #25
Re: My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
-
July 22, 2018, 07:28 PM #26
- Join Date
- Dec 2017
- Posts
- 585
Re: My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
No.
The goal is not the "real thing". The goal of high end audio is "the virtual thing".
The goal is not the reality as it is, but to create another and maybe more pleasant reality.
As i usually say, of the "real thing" i just care about the tone of acoustical instruments, when played individually. Nothing more.
From here, our systems are just a tool to create a new reality.
-
July 22, 2018, 07:33 PM #27
Re: My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
There is none. No 2ch analog/vinyl/etc. system on earth can approach something like this http://www.onhifi.com/features/20010615.htm which appeared to frighten audiophiles.
While proprietary, there are similar digital technologies trickling out now.
The latest toy in my listening room has some interesting tech. It's very complex to set up properly, so inadvisable for Joe audiophile who might prefer simplicity and /or more archaic means of reproducing sound. YMMV.
I'm just getting started but the potential is there...if you are chasing that form of "High Fidelity" experience. Clearly not all are, as so succinctly described by Stereophiles founder.
cheers,
AJ
-
July 22, 2018, 07:35 PM #28
Re: My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
-
July 22, 2018, 07:37 PM #29
Re: My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
-
July 22, 2018, 07:38 PM #30
Re: My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
-
July 22, 2018, 07:40 PM #31
Re: My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
-
July 22, 2018, 07:41 PM #32
-
July 22, 2018, 07:42 PM #33
-
July 22, 2018, 07:43 PM #34
Re: My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
-
July 22, 2018, 07:44 PM #35
-
July 22, 2018, 07:45 PM #36
-
July 22, 2018, 07:46 PM #37
- Join Date
- Nov 2014
- Posts
- 2,089
-
July 22, 2018, 07:47 PM #38
Re: My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
-
July 22, 2018, 07:47 PM #39
-
July 22, 2018, 07:48 PM #40
-
July 22, 2018, 07:49 PM #41
-
July 22, 2018, 07:50 PM #42
-
July 22, 2018, 07:50 PM #43
Re: My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
-
July 22, 2018, 07:52 PM #44
Re: My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
-
July 22, 2018, 07:53 PM #45
Re: My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
I want to hear groove echo set that up too, what kind of ceramic cartridge do i need ... lol
-
July 22, 2018, 07:54 PM #46
Re: My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
-
July 22, 2018, 07:55 PM #47
Re: My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
-
July 22, 2018, 07:55 PM #48
-
July 22, 2018, 07:57 PM #49
Re: My Recent Digital vs Analog Experience
Download this paper as an AES member http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=2123
-
July 22, 2018, 08:00 PM #50
AudioShark - The Best High End Audio Discussion forum.
AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team
AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team
Terrific!
Clarisys Audio Studio Plus Install...