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  1. #1
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    Why so many DACs?

    It just seems like there are far too many DACs. Every day I see a new one being talked about. It just seems crazy... and I assume that it just seems this way to me, but it seems like there are more DACs then other components. Also, many use the same DAC chips, while many of the higher ones appear to use custom chips.

    This was the one area of this crazy hobby that was hard for me to gain an understanding of after jumping back in, to a point where I went through a ridicules amount of DACs (I would have to add them back up but I believe it was either 12 or 14?).

    It just seems like the amount of companies offering DACs, many that I have never heard of before, is just over whelming. Darn glad that Mike got me to try the T+A!
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
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  2. #2
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    Re: Why so many DACs?

    Randy, this is an excellent question. The short answer would be, there isn’t any other area of high end audio where the advances over the past 5, 10 or 20 years have been greater. Just think of the DAC’s from 5 years ago. Most have long been surpassed by quite a wide margin. Just look at the sound you’re getting out of that DAC8! Look at what MSB is doing with the perfection of the ladder DAC. Look at what PS Audio can do with firmware updates. Heck, we even have a plethora of tube DAC’s!

    The integration of network cards (Roon) is another advancement and of course, we have the ever controversial MQA.
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

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  3. #3
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    Re: Why so many DACs?

    Hehe Mike.... you always clear things up, some what. I just look at the various names mentioned in the threads, even on the first page of Computer/Digital Audio thread... holy crap.... it makes your head spin .... (btw- 10, of which most I have never heard of, and not one of the "big names" are even mentioned on the first page )
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
    "You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

  4. #4
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    Re: Why so many DACs?

    Dac's are like any product when it becomes hot, you'll find plenty of people wanting a piece of the pie.

    Look back at the point when higher end cables were discovered to help and became hot, the renaissance of turntables, on and on.

    The quick switch to streaming and media servers called for access to the DAC, then stand alone DAC, as it was expected, the listener would just stop playing discs I suppose. Anyway, there was a need, or, at least an opportunity, and companies are taking/filling it. Who can build a better mouse trap.

    The chip is just one small part of the overall DAC, that's why Astell & Kearn's portable sounds different than Hegel DAC's, both good, both use the same DAC chip in many of their DAC's. A lot goes into receiving the digital feed before it sees the DAC and a great deal goes into the analog section of a DAC. That's why DAC's can be a cheap as a couple hundred dollars up to the stratosphere.
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  5. #5
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    Re: Why so many DACs?

    DACs are like cell phones.

  6. #6
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    Re: Why so many DACs?

    Hello my name is Marty and I am a Dacaholic.....
    Marty

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  7. #7
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    Re: Why so many DACs?

    Hey give it another month or so and more dac updates and the next best thing will be out along with the marketing gee wiz wording and the forum accolades. Spend spend spend.
    2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)

  8. #8
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    Re: Why so many DACs?

    I am really really really really really really really hoping that the T+A will fulfill my DAC needs for a while.

    I was definitely in need of an intervention ever since Normal convinced me that I HAD to get a DSD DAC. I think you could probably classify him as a DAC pusher from what it has led to .

    "God dam the pusher man" ...

    ps. if you are too young to know where that came from then I truly feel sorry for you
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
    "You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

  9. #9
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    Re: Why so many DACs?

    It appears the trend right now in DACs is the ladder conversion types with no oversampling.
    Marty

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  10. #10
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    Re: Why so many DACs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    I am really really really really really really really hoping that the T+A will fulfill my DAC needs for a while.

    I was definitely in need of an intervention ever since Normal convinced me that I HAD to get a DSD DAC. I think you could probably classify him as a DAC pusher from what it has led to .

    "God dam the pusher man" ...

    ps. if you are too young to know where that came from then I truly feel sorry for you
    oh yes, 1968
    2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)

  11. #11
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    Re: Why so many DACs?

    Bingo... one of my favorite bands growing up! (Opening credits for a fairly famous movie also)... starring ...
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
    "You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

  12. #12
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    Re: Why so many DACs?

    Randy, I have the LP, fold out cover, For Ladies Only. I've got other albums by them as well. I always wondered if that car ever was driven down the street

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    Bingo... one of my favorite bands growing up! (Opening credits for a fairly famous movie also)... starring ...
    Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB, Esoteric N05xd
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  13. #13
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    Re: Why so many DACs?

    I have a DSD download of the first album (where The Pusher, Born to be Wild, etc. came from), 192kHz versions of 3-4 other albums... actually listened to one the other night

    Oh btw---- the car....

    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
    "You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

  14. #14
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    Re: Why so many DACs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    It just seems like there are far too many DACs. Every day I see a new one being talked about.
    ............ and one could say the same about different flavors of ice cream !
    Cheers ! …. Dave

  15. #15
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    Re: Why so many DACs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikado463 View Post
    ............ and one could say the same about different flavors of ice cream !
    True but ice cream doesn't cost you $85,000
    2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)

  16. #16

    Re: Why so many DACs?

    Quote Originally Posted by CPP View Post
    True but ice cream doesn't cost you $85,000
    Which DAC costs $85k?!

  17. #17
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    Re: Why so many DACs?

    Quote Originally Posted by CPP View Post
    True but ice cream doesn't cost you $85,000
    true and anyone spending 85k on a DAC is goofier than a 3 dollar bill !
    Cheers ! …. Dave

  18. #18
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    Re: Why so many DACs?

    Quote Originally Posted by nc42acc View Post
    Hello my name is Marty and I am a Dacaholic.....
    Welcome Marty!
    Paul

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  19. #19
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    Re: Why so many DACs?

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoff View Post
    Which DAC costs $85k?!
    http://www.msbtechnology.com/dacs/select-features/

  20. #20
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    Re: Why so many DACs?

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoff View Post
    Which DAC costs $85k?!
    I think it was answered already, one of the MSB dacs,
    2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)

  21. #21
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    Re: Why so many DACs?

    And if you can afford it, worth every dime! It’s on an entirely different level even from others costing similar. We have a few members with it.


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  22. #22
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    Re: Why so many DACs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikado463 View Post
    true and anyone spending 85k on a DAC is goofier than a 3 dollar bill !
    It might save someone from having to spend $60k on a Nagra pre-amp.
    Jim

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  23. #23
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    Re: Why so many DACs?

    Quote Originally Posted by still-one View Post
    It might save someone from having to spend $60k on a Nagra pre-amp.
    yes, just for little more money to behave like a true preamp with multiple analog inputs - they don't come for free like Nagra does

  24. #24
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    Re: Why so many DACs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devg View Post
    yes, just for little more price to behave like a true preamp with multiple analog inputs - they don't come for free like Nagra does
    How many digital inputs on the Nagra?


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  25. #25
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    Re: Why so many DACs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    How many digital inputs on the Nagra?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    None but Nagra preamp that we are talking about is NOT a DAC either

  26. #26
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    Re: Why so many DACs?

    Quote Originally Posted by still-one View Post
    It might save someone from having to spend $60k on a Nagra pre-amp.
    The $22K Playback Designs MPD-8 DAC doesn't need a pre-amp.

  27. #27
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    Re: Why so many DACs?

    A lot of DACs do not "need" a pre-amp, but many people prefer using a pre-amp. My T+A DAC 8 DSD (retail $4200) has an excellent pre-amp with an excellent volume control.

    "A volume control is another unusual feature in a DAC, but it makes good sense if the user wishes to install active loudspeakers, or employ the DAC 8 DSD as a pre-amplifier in conjunction with external power amplifiers. The volume control is of highly refined design, and exploits analogue control elements down to low volumes, as they avoid any loss of dynamic quality even at low listening levels. Two gold-contact relays are provided to by-pass the volume control, i.e. it can be removed entirely from the signal path when not required."

    However I still prefer using my ARC pre-amp.
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

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  28. #28
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    Re: Why so many DACs?

    Until the MSB, I thought all volume controls in DAC’s weren’t even at the level of a cheapie preamp like the JOB. The one on the Berkeley and others was just not good. Preamp definitely needed. The Lampi, as the exception, wasn’t all that bad.

    The MSB changed my view on this. It can hang or beat some of the best I’ve heard. I will admit, a preamp can add some certain characteristics, not the least is dynamics, tonal coloration, etc. Will be interested to see how the Premier sounds as a VC.
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

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  29. #29

    Re: Why so many DACs?

    I agree with the comments that there have been major improvements in DACs in the last 10 years.

    As the digital technology has become better understood, more companies are capitalizing on that knowledge and are bringing out more digital products such as music players and DACs.

    A $10k top of the line digital preamp from 8 years ago with a premium DAC (at that time), can now be bested by products costing a tenth of that. That is good news for consumers.

    Also today there are music players that can do file upsampling and add filters previously unavailable to a regular consumer. Several of the new DACs can process those files and make digital music sound like it never had before. It is good news in the digital front.

  30. #30
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    Re: Why so many DACs?

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoff View Post
    Also today there are music players that can do file upsampling and add filters previously unavailable to a regular consumer. Several of the new DACs can process those files and make digital music sound like it never had before. It is good news in the digital front.
    Not only s/w based upsampling with different taste of filters/modulators, a true 64-bit dsd wide volume control can also be achieved in the s/w that can potentially eliminate the need for a preamp if you don't need multiple analog inputs.

    Digital is advancing very fast and its an interesting time for the consumers. Recently released iFI iDSD Pro can do DSD1024

  31. #31
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    Re: Why so many DACs?

    Randy,

    I agree with the concept of the hot market and everyone jumping into the market to cash in.

    In your case, the reason why you have or had so many is that you can't make up your mind.

    Hope all is well with you!
    MICHAEL
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  32. #32

    Re: Why so many DACs?

    Moore's Law, which I don't think applies to any other part of hifi.

    Larry
    Analog-VPIClassic3-3DArm,Lyra Skala+MiyajimaZeroMono,2xAmpex ATR-102,Otari MX5050B2, Merrill Trident Tape Preamp, Herron VTPH-2A&BottleheadPhonoPre,
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  33. #33
    Senior Member
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    Re: Why so many DACs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yamaki View Post
    Randy,

    I agree with the concept of the hot market and everyone jumping into the market to cash in.

    In your case, the reason why you have or had so many is that you can't make up your mind.

    Hope all is well with you!

    yea, yea ... the T+A is something very special!
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  34. #34

    Re: Why so many DACs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    yea, yea ... the T+A is something very special!
    100% agree!

  35. #35
    Senior Member
    Join Date
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    Re: Why so many DACs?

    Because of the “dac of the month” club?
    Brinkmann Bardo w/ EMT HSD-006 cart, MSB Reference DAC --> Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL --> Ampzilla 2000, 2nd Edition --> Fyne Audio F1-12

  36. #36
    Senior Member
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    Re: Why so many DACs?

    Quote Originally Posted by mauidan View Post
    The $22K Playback Designs MPD-8 DAC doesn't need a pre-amp.
    And it does't play in the same sandbox as the top of the line MSB or dCS nor as good of a pre-amp as the Nagra.
    Jim

    D'Agostino Momentum M-400's MxV’s & HD Pre-amp
    Wilson Alexandria X2 Series 2 speakers
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  37. #37
    mauidan
    Guest

    Re: Why so many DACs?

    Quote Originally Posted by still-one View Post
    And it does't play in the same sandbox as the top of the line MSB or dCS nor as good of a pre-amp as the Nagra.
    Jim, I haven't heard the top of the line MSB*, dCS or the Nagra preamp, and probably never will, but I don't play in sandboxes either.

    Have you heard the MPD-8 DAC in your system?


    *I did hear a DAC IV, when Nick Bedworth was on Maui.

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