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Thread: "dropouts" still ?
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June 24, 2018, 12:28 PM #1
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"dropouts" still ?
Hello
I have a repeating problem whit my D1 and Streaming Tidal. I gett dropouts after about 1.40sekunds and the counter stil go but sound is missing, an also a problem whit "start to play a song but just jump to next", Peter tels me it is a Tidal problem but why dosen all my hifi friends in Norway whit Tidal and a other streamer the same issue ? Starten to gett a little fed app about this. Any other here that have the same issue ?
I reset router and iPad i cut the power for the D1, some times that help for a little time.
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June 24, 2018, 03:10 PM #2
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Re: "dropouts" still ?
I've had similar issues in the past with my Mac Mini streaming Tidal.
But since I've switched to a MicroRendu to handle the Tidal streaming I've had no problems at all.
Still using an iPad for a remote as before so I can't blame the remote handshake of an iPad as being part of the problem.
I've spoken with others that have also experienced the same issue. Tidal always seems to get the blame.
Have you checked your internet speed? How old is your modem?My System
Acoustic Revive RTP-4
Innuos Pulsar
Lampizator BALTIC4
Cary SLP-05
Pass XA30.5 or
Line Magnetic 845ia
Reference 3A Reflector's
Pr SVS SB3000 Subs
Cables & Tubes "subject to change without notification".
Complete system on battery power/solar
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June 24, 2018, 05:38 PM #3
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Re: "dropouts" still ?
Thanks for your reply, that i find strange is that it is the same fault every time, if it was "just" trouble whit the Tidal, i would guess the fault would come in various faults.
I use Jensen mesh network, Lumin D1 ethernet cable in one of them. and have good speed, 40-50 mb down.
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June 24, 2018, 06:50 PM #4
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Re: "dropouts" still ?
Yes, I agree with you. When I had the drop-outs on Tidal they were completely random.
Your problem seems more like a hardware issue than a software one.
Perhaps someone from Lumin could help you.My System
Acoustic Revive RTP-4
Innuos Pulsar
Lampizator BALTIC4
Cary SLP-05
Pass XA30.5 or
Line Magnetic 845ia
Reference 3A Reflector's
Pr SVS SB3000 Subs
Cables & Tubes "subject to change without notification".
Complete system on battery power/solar
Core Audio Design Rack
DIY bass traps and custom curved diffusors.
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June 25, 2018, 09:03 AM #5
Re: "dropouts" still ?
You are up to date on all the firmware and app updates right, just checking ?
I had issues a while ago, and it was a Tidal issue with their servers. I sent a email to Tidal and reported the problem. Also in the states some of us have some unstable internet providers and thats a problem in itself was streaming issues.
Peter with Lumin is on vacation but he would ask while he is on vacation to " Please send email to info@luminmusic.com2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)
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June 25, 2018, 12:47 PM #6
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Re: "dropouts" still ?
Yes i have all the updates, and i have spoken to peter about the problem. But i find i strange that it "just me" that have the issue if its only a Tidal problem. He tels me to reset router, iPad and Lumin, But so often i have this issue i can not do this every time, if i have a longer playlist that have bean there for som days, its more trouble than if i delete that and start a new.
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June 25, 2018, 01:04 PM #7
Re: "dropouts" still ?
When I had the drop outs its was a Tidal server problem wherever thats located, the only other time it was my internet provider doing maintenance for weeks on a new route. I've been , knock on wood lucky as I haven't had any drop outs in a while. I stream mostly via Tidal and haven't used my NAS, which is a Synology DS413, miniServer for Windows in a while. Sorry about your issues, .
2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)
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June 27, 2018, 09:39 PM #8
Re: "dropouts" still ?
Some Tidal users can experience problems not experienced by other Tidal users in the same area or other parts of the world, because different users/streams can be assigned to different servers of the Tidal CDN at different times. One server in a CDN that is overloaded does not mean all servers are overloaded. This typically has nothing to do with the user's own internet bandwidth.
Please change router DNS to 1.1.1.1 (and 8.8.8.8 as secondary). Then power cycle the iPad and Lumin. Add new tracks from Tidal.
If that does not help, please send a support request to Tidal.Peter Lie
LUMIN Firmware Lead
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June 27, 2018, 09:43 PM #9
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Re: "dropouts" still ?
Good call on the Cloudflare DNS Peter. That was the only DNS I found that would play Tidal with any regularity. Spotify and Qobuz work on any DNS.
Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Jays CDT3 Mk3 , Auralic Aries G2.2, Holo May KTE, Supratek Cabernet, Kinki Studio EX-B7 monoblocks, Verity Audio Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC, SC & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Inakustik USB and I2S, (2) Puritan Audio Labs PSM-156 with Groundmaster City, Timbernation rack
Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Auralic Aries, Aqua La Voce S3, Kinki Studio EX-M1+, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Wireworld SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810
Greenville, SC- Jays CDT2 Mk 3, Auralic Aries G1, Holo Spring 3 KTE, Supratek Chardonnay, Odyssey Audio Kismet Reference, Rosso Fiorentino Volterra 2, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Wireworld IC's, Inakustik USB and I2s, Triode Wire Lab SC, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line, Timbernation rack.
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June 28, 2018, 02:13 AM #10
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Re: "dropouts" still ?
Thanks Peter, but i try that last time we had contact about the problem. (14/5) I don't know if its permanent, but yesterday i set the Dns back to std ip, and after that i had no problem. I have sendt a request to Tidal, so i let you know what they tel me.
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August 16, 2018, 01:43 AM #11
Re: "dropouts" still ?
If there is any Lumin user who still experiences Tidal issues after changing DNS, please send me a PM and state your model. We have been trying to further mitigate those issues via beta firmwares.
Peter Lie
LUMIN Firmware Lead
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August 26, 2018, 06:12 AM #12
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- Mar 2018
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Re: "dropouts" still ?
Dropout can happen by so many issues. We face the same problem in Thailand about 3 - 4 months ago. Most of our Tidal User Group here faced the same problem. BlueNode 2 got the worst hit. The issue is much better now.
Based on my facing problem, here are my assumptions ::
1) Lumin hardware provides small memory buffers and CPU. for songs. I test several hardware during the same period, and found out that Mobile Devices are the most sensitive. Lumin was hit bad too, either caused by small CPU or small memory buffer size. Computer based Player get the best torrent since it has bigger CPU and memory".
2) Most of Thailand ISPs found the same dropout, they fix the problem by "Add all Tidal Server IP addresses to a "group of static routing". This reduces network latency.
3) Tidal, currently, faces financial problem. I guess minimum budgets are used to increase the total server capacity.
4) Change DNS Server is defintely not help at all, in mycase increase network latency.
Currently Only (2) is fixed in Thailand, for a workaround. (1), (3), and (4) cannot.
We as a whole may one day must be forced to move away from Tidal Service.
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August 26, 2018, 12:28 PM #13
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Re: "dropouts" still ?
I have been test pilot for Peter about my problems whit dropouts, and after 3 beta firmware , it seams that the problems i had is gone.
Thank to Peter that really go the esker mile for us Lumin customers. I send a request also to Tidal, but no answer......
So if you have problems whit Dropouts, take contact whit Peter and maybe same beta firmware can help you.
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August 26, 2018, 12:56 PM #14
Re: "dropouts" still ?
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
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August 26, 2018, 04:50 PM #15
Re: "dropouts" still ?
2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)
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August 26, 2018, 05:17 PM #16
Re: "dropouts" still ?
Jim
D'Agostino Momentum M-400's MxV’s & HD Pre-amp
Wilson Alexandria X2 Series 2 speakers
Digital: dCS Vivaldi APEX DAC, Clock & Upsampler
Analog: SME 20/3 with Esoteric E-03 Phono
Transparent Opus Speaker Cable & Interconnects & Opus Power Cords
Power Cords on Digital: Shunyata
Power Conditioner - Shunyata Everest
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August 26, 2018, 10:56 PM #17
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- Mar 2018
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- 18
Re: "dropouts" still ?
It’s better for me to wait for production firmware release. Dropout is already minimized
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August 27, 2018, 09:32 AM #18
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- Mar 2017
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- North Carolina
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Re: "dropouts" still ?
From observation, Peter is definitely a 'difference maker' for Lumin.
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August 27, 2018, 09:33 AM #19
Re: "dropouts" still ?
Couldn’t agree more
Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo
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August 27, 2018, 09:37 AM #20
Re: "dropouts" still ?
Peter even reached out to me (knowing that I have had issues streaming Tidal in Singapore, which have since been resolved - Tidal presumably has upgraded its servers for Singapore) saying that if I still had my Lumin T1 (knowing I was switching to MSB at some point) he had some firmware for me to download which might fix it. Amazing.
Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo
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August 29, 2018, 10:32 AM #21
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September 1, 2018, 03:22 AM #22
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Re: "dropouts" still ?
Hello Peter,
I am experiencing frequent dropouts (to the point where it has become unusable) playing MQA files from Tidal, I have been assuming that it was due to internet speed and have addressed it with my ISP to no avail. I am under the impression that MQA does not use more bandwidth than non MQA ?? There is a significant lag before an album starts with MQA, upwards of 10 seconds , whereas with other files it is three or four seconds, I assume this is because of buffering? Now I am wondering if it is a problem with my settings on the Lumin. I am using a T1 and have no problems when playing from my L1. Do you have any suggestions?
Regards
Rod
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September 1, 2018, 04:44 AM #23
Re: "dropouts" still ?
After FLAC compression, MQA uses roughly double the bandwidth of the normal files, or more. It uses the same bandwidth only if we count decompressed PCM in 24-bit, but that's not the case for streaming.
The lag is indeed caused by buffering.
Where are you located? It's a Tidal server capacity issue, not usually an ISP issue if you have a reasonable broadband connection. You can send a request to Tidal.
It's not a Lumin setting problem, but by turning off MQA, the bandwidth is reduced since Lumin will get a smaller version.Peter Lie
LUMIN Firmware Lead
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September 1, 2018, 06:09 AM #24
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- May 2017
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- 9
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September 1, 2018, 07:14 AM #25
Re: "dropouts" still ?
Flemming
Lumin X1
Rotel Michi S5
Focus Audio FS788
Inter connect : Nordost Tyr 2 ( 2 Meter )
LS cable : Yter
Power Cables : Nordost Frey 2 ( 2 Meter )
Nordost QB8
Fibercable for feeding the Lumin X1
Rack : Finite Elemente Pagode
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September 1, 2018, 09:06 PM #26
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Re: "dropouts" still ?
I owned T1. After doing this, tidal response time is more acceptable.
Discuss with your ISP to create “Static routing to Tidal Servers”. It will reduce network latency, and get better Tidal Network Connection. I believe it is not bandwidth problem. It consumes about 3 mbps during network consumption spike. Please make sure that no other network devices are used during MQA streaming.
Delay on the first song is normal for Tidal Service at this moment.
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September 5, 2018, 12:00 PM #27
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Re: "dropouts" still ?
My ISP had increased my download speed from 4 to 6mbps and this has solved the problem with MQA files. My T1 buffers prior to playing at the maximum of 6mbps and then continues for some while at about 1.6mbps while it is playing
Thanks for all the suggestions
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September 20, 2018, 12:35 AM #28
Re: "dropouts" still ?
Peter Lie
LUMIN Firmware Lead
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November 26, 2018, 07:13 AM #29
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- Oct 2018
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- Western CO
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Re: "dropouts" still ?
I just received my Lumin D2 two days ago, and have also been having random dropouts from Tidal. Not just when streaming in MQA, but also other times. The sound will stop, even though the app shows the music is playing. Sometimes it just last for a second or two, other times much longer. It seems as if, during these times of dropouts, that the "pause" button does not stop the song from "soundlessly" continuing. I power cycle my router and the Lumin and my Ipad, and this will correct the problem for a while, but the dropouts came back after a short while. The app shows that I have firmware version 11.1b. Any suggestions?
McIntosh MA252, Lumin D2, Emotiva XPA 2 Gen 3, Polk Audio LSiM 705, Polk Audio LSiM 703, Oppo UDP 203, Polk Audio Signature S20
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November 26, 2018, 12:33 PM #30
Re: "dropouts" still ?
I have no idea if this will help with your Lumin issue but my dropouts had nothing (or little) to do with my audio gear. Unfortunately I ended up changing from an Apple to Netgear Orbing network almost simultaneously when moving from the Rossini to my Vivaldi stack. what was causing the dropouts? Was it my Tidal, my Upsampler or DAC or Network or sonicTrransporter?
To make a long story short Andrew from Small Green Computer suggested I insert a TrendNet switch between my Orbi router and my Upsampler and i5 rather than connecting them direct to the Orbi. That solved my dropout issues immediately. (I had tried a TPlink unit but the dropouts remained).Jim
D'Agostino Momentum M-400's MxV’s & HD Pre-amp
Wilson Alexandria X2 Series 2 speakers
Digital: dCS Vivaldi APEX DAC, Clock & Upsampler
Analog: SME 20/3 with Esoteric E-03 Phono
Transparent Opus Speaker Cable & Interconnects & Opus Power Cords
Power Cords on Digital: Shunyata
Power Conditioner - Shunyata Everest
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November 26, 2018, 04:05 PM #31
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November 26, 2018, 05:27 PM #32
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Re: "dropouts" still ?
I really don't think that is the problem. I just tested my connection and I'm at 64.17 Mbps download, and 6.62 Mbps upload. My listening room is the same room that my router is in, so the WiFi signal strength to my Ipad running the Lumin app is reading full strength. I'm guessing it is a problem with the TIDAL servers as some others have seemed to indicate. I'll keep monitoring this thread and see if any other suggestions show up. One interesting thing I have noticed is that when a dropout occurs, the timer on the display on the front of the Lumin and in the app continues to run. However, once it gets to the end time, the music continues and runs beyond the time indicated. In other words, if I have a 15 second dropout, for example, in the middle of a song, the music will continue for 15 seconds beyond the timer showing the song is over. So I am getting the full track, just with a 15 second break in the middle.
McIntosh MA252, Lumin D2, Emotiva XPA 2 Gen 3, Polk Audio LSiM 705, Polk Audio LSiM 703, Oppo UDP 203, Polk Audio Signature S20
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November 26, 2018, 09:36 PM #33
Re: "dropouts" still ?
I haven’t experienced any dropout issues with my LUMIN S1 over the last couple of years. My S1 is connected to the router via an Ethernet cable. I had some dropout issues several years ago when the network configuration included a wireless extender (not the best solution).
_______________
Mike
Amplification: MBL 6010D, MBL 9008A Monos
Analog: Kuzma R, Kuzma 4Point (11”), MSL Ultra Eminent EX
Phono Pre: Pass XP-27
Digital: Esoteric N01XD Esoteric K05
Speakers: MBL 101E MKII
Subwoofers: REL Carbon Specials
Conditioner: Shunyata Triton 3
Power Cables: Shunyata Sigma 1 & 2, Alpha 2, Delta and Venom
ICs and SCs: Wireworld Platinum 8
Rack: Artesania Exoteryc
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November 27, 2018, 10:38 AM #34
Re: "dropouts" still ?
Peter Lie
LUMIN Firmware Lead
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November 27, 2018, 07:19 PM #35
- Join Date
- Oct 2018
- Location
- Western CO
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Re: "dropouts" still ?
McIntosh MA252, Lumin D2, Emotiva XPA 2 Gen 3, Polk Audio LSiM 705, Polk Audio LSiM 703, Oppo UDP 203, Polk Audio Signature S20
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AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
Sincerely,
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