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  1. #1
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    Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Was thinking about this the other day then was reading through the "lossy/lossless" thread here. Some comments by AJ made me give this more thought.

    Look, I'm no audio engineer, and there are many people who could provide scientific evidence or probably just way better anecdotal evidence (guys like AJ, Mike, etc) to either refute or support what I'm proposing. However I think the time's come that the topic gets some discussion, some good old fashioned (like vinyl ; ) heated debate.

    For as long as I've been involved in this hobby, vinyl has held sway as the benchmark to which everything should aspire, ie. digital. And in the early days, with CDs basically sucking for a variety of reasons, this made a lot of sense.

    Today however, with better knowledge of digital music sourcing (mastering etc), production (flac, wav, dsd, hi-res) and re-production (better digital gear, DACs etc), my theory is that vinyl is no longer king of the hill. That the best digital systems produce better sound/experience at home than can the best vinyl. Just a theory, since I've heard neither. However, I've heard what I guess is very good vinyl/analog, and very good digital, and I'd take digital. I hear more detail, superior special queues, more clarity, PRAT, whatever.... it just sounds better to me. Not to mention, flac files don't wear down over time.

    I hope this ends up being somewhat controversial; I think it's time to change this paradigm. Take your seat at the back of the bus vinyl.
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  2. #2
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Quote Originally Posted by jmusica View Post

    Today however, with better knowledge of digital music sourcing (mastering etc), production (flac, wav, dsd, hi-res) and re-production (better digital gear, DACs etc), my theory is that vinyl is no longer king of the hill. That the best digital systems produce better sound/experience at home than can the best vinyl. Just a theory, since I've heard neither. However, I've heard what I guess is very good vinyl/analog, and very good digital, and I'd take digital. I hear more detail, superior special queues, more clarity, PRAT, whatever.... it just sounds better to me. Not to mention, flac files don't wear down over time.
    It's in the presentation and feel of the music that vinyl ruled and many probably feel it still does.

    Digital has been closing the gap in that regard. Personally I could never get over the shortcomings of vinyl so I put up with digital's. My latest digital HW acquisitions have improved digital so much for me I'm selling my vinyl rig.

  3. #3
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    In many ways Digital is the new benchmark. But primarily because it's what 99% of people have and use. That is not to say that tape and vinyl aren't better sounding. A benchmark is there to compare to better or worse.
    Jock

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  4. #4
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Tape is king. After that it's a toss-up between vinyl and digital. I have also become of the belief that in order to have the very best vinyl you must have some of the best digital. When you have excellent digital such as I believe I have, you are very quickly shown the shortcomings in your vinyl setup. It becomes very easy to hear any bloat congestion or lack of frequency extension in your vinyl set up when you play the same songs compared against your digital.

    They also just voice a little different. That is really it. They are both extremely Musical and engaging to listen to. Last night I was spinning some Jimmy Buffett. Well actually I should say I was listening to it from my internal drive on my server. However I had been using my record player and listening to Jimmy Buffett albums which was still spinning and I thought was actually playing. I was thinking to myself, my God this is some of the best audio I've ever heard in my life. This is after just returning from Miami and listening to Boulder, Wilson raidho, OMA Etc. Very fine multi hundred-thousand-dollar systems. In my opinion, mine was more musically engaging and enjoyable listen to. It did not have the scale and size of the Boulder Wilson combo but it was more musical. Anyhow I was getting ready to get up and lift the needle after Margaritaville when I realized the needle was up and I was only listening to my digitally stored red book version.

    I used to try and say my digital was better than my vinyl. I now say my digital force me to up the performance of my vinyl. The biggest shortcoming of vinyl is the source albums. But this can also be a shortcoming of digital. All-in-all I find my digital has a little more punch, Clarity, black backgrounds. But source does matter. I had been listening to an old Beethoven record I had. It was like some violin Concerto in D. It has been sounding superb on my record player. I thought how does it compare against my digital. I looked around on Tidal,but could not find the exact album. The exact album as in the same Symphony composer recording studio, you know what I mean. This was just the same song from a completely different album. My record ate that digital recording up. Of course this is one of the only times that has happened. If I take an album such as Cat Stevens, Pink Martini, Tony Bennett, Pink Floyd, and play it against my digital, I find the digital to generally be more satisfying. It plays with more gripping Authority out of my system.

    My system may be tuned slightly soft due to its makeup. It consists of 135 watt Altec Lansing 1570b monoblock amplifiers that have been completely rebuilt by Tom to Tutay. I have a first sound Mark 3s preamp by Emmanuel go. My digital side is a Mojo audio server which I have hot rodded myself with software updates. I use an RT audio Ultra USB Orpheus ex DAC. On the analog side I build a turntable based upon the Vertere SG1 tonearm. I use a Denon cartridge in an aluminum head shell with a soundsmith sapphire cantilever and line contact diamond. My phoneo stage is an Allnic H1201. I have pure audio Trio 10 speakers. I have done extensive mods to the speakers. They have much higher quality capacitors chokes and speaker wire lacing. Actually all my gear is somewhat tweet. I buy the components and spend a lot of time making small adjustments to extract the most from them.

    I think I have a pretty darn nice sounding system. So to summarize, in short my digital is not necessarily better than my analog, it's just different.

  5. #5

    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Finding vinyl recordings is an art. If you get the right vinyl recordings and performances vinyl impossible to beat. I am not into vinyl yet btw, would like to get into it but cost of entry is high.

  6. #6
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Dan

    STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, Shunyata Sigma spdif digital coax,
    Sonos Connect, Stillpoints Ultra SS & Ultra Mini, PurePower 2000, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Michell HR Power Supply, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario

    LIVING ROOM - McIntosh C2300, MC75 (2), MR85, Magnum Dynalab 205 Signal Sleuth, Sonos Connect, Simaudio MOON Neo 260D-T, Schiit Audio Yggdrasil, Aurender N100H, Shunyata Sigma USB cable,
    Sony DAT 60ES, Nakamichi BX-300, Micro Seiki DD40 w/m505A tonearm, Ortofon Cadenza Blue, PS Audio P10, Furutech Flux 50, Stillpoints Ultra Mini, PMC EB1i, JL Audio f113

    VINTAGE - McIntosh 4300V, McIntosh MA230, Tandberg 3011A tuner, Olive 04HD, JBL 4312A

  7. #7
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Quote Originally Posted by jdandy View Post
    Agree Dan, I guess the next new thread will be cables.
    2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)

  8. #8
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Quote Originally Posted by bonzo View Post
    If you get the right vinyl recordings and performances vinyl impossible to beat.
    Did you forgot to say IMO, or is your statement a known fact among the knowledgeable elite? ...
    DPT4ME - Dynamics, Presence & Tone for Musical Engagement; MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; Shunyata Omega & Sigma USBs; ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; Aqua La Scala II Optologic DAC; Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated; Ayre Codex dac - updated; Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amp; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamp, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s; Quicksilver Mid Mono amps w/Gold Lion KT77s; Fyne Audio 703s; Symposium Svelte Plus & Ultra Platforms; REL S-812 subwoofers; Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA & 20GA ICs; Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2; Tripp Lite PCs; Wyred 4 Sound power cords; AudioDharma cable cooker; dedicated custom room; various GIK & ASC room treatments; etc.

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  9. #9
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Quote Originally Posted by CPP View Post
    Agree Dan, I guess the next new thread will be cables.
    How about tonearm wires vs digital cables?

  10. #10
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Smith View Post
    Did you forgot to say IMO, or is your statement a known fact among the knowledgeable elite? ...
    and which "knowledgeable elite" would that be?

  11. #11
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Smith View Post
    Did you forgot to say IMO, or is your statement a known fact among the knowledgeable elite? ...
    I got your DVD. It helped me get a lot more from my system.

  12. #12
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Quote Originally Posted by puroagave View Post
    and which "knowledgeable elite" would that be?
    That was a sarcastic term, apparently missed the mark. Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    DPT4ME - Dynamics, Presence & Tone for Musical Engagement; MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; Shunyata Omega & Sigma USBs; ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; Aqua La Scala II Optologic DAC; Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated; Ayre Codex dac - updated; Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amp; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamp, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s; Quicksilver Mid Mono amps w/Gold Lion KT77s; Fyne Audio 703s; Symposium Svelte Plus & Ultra Platforms; REL S-812 subwoofers; Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA & 20GA ICs; Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2; Tripp Lite PCs; Wyred 4 Sound power cords; AudioDharma cable cooker; dedicated custom room; various GIK & ASC room treatments; etc.

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  13. #13
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Smith View Post
    That was a sarcastic term, apparently missed the mark. Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    no worries, im not taking you to task. I took it like the double-entendre that it is

  14. #14
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    It’s hard for me to consider what is best. For me tape or vinyl transfers to dsd sound best in digital so where does that leave me in this lol.
    Some new titles have analog mixing stations or some form of analog added to the sound. This leads me to my own conclusion pure digital is not best for me. Maybe it’s my age as I grew up in analog. I think all mediums have pros and cons and in any given system one may be best
    having said this. For me digital is simple and almost endless sources of music content for this reason I use it alone.

  15. #15
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Just use the one you prefer.

    And stay far away from any "trust your ears" tests of digital vs analog (like the aforementioned TT>dual phonopre>ADC), unless you have a good sense of humor.

  16. #16
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    All sources have limitations. I have firmly bumped my head with vinyl. I just can't get it to sound anywhere near as good as my digital. Go to Audionirvana and they would pee all over themselves reading that. However, many there have spent more on one phono cartridge than I did on my whole setup, about $10k.

    I heard a $20k Clear Audio table with a $12k optical cartridge. It was beating the $90 digital chain. I think my digital is slightly different than the $90k system and would have been more a toss up to the Clear Audio. Some digital goes for to much dynamics and gets grit in the sound. That was what I was hearing, grit in the digital vs the vinyl.

    No matter the system, I don't see cables, software medium making the system, I see it as breaking the system. You need the whole correct. Mistakes take away.

    In short, I am hearing $10k digital wiping the floor on a $10k vinyl setup. The vinyl might have a little more liquid midrange, but I don't see that as better. I like to hear into the music, not through the music. I like clean, clear, accurate, extended, dynamic and well timed music. I can't get my analog to surpass my digital in any of these area.

    I keep my analog for 2 reason. 1 Jazz and classical records not available on digital. 2 Guest want to believe vinyl is king and hear it played. Its tactile. Everyone can touch it, select and hold records. Bring records to play etc.

    In the end, digital plays better than records In My System. Even in a multi thousand $ system I was treated to hearing, the vinyl sound floor kept coming through and literally caused me to plug my ears as it reacted to the rest of the system. Digital did not do that. The tape was huge sounding, also amazed me. First time I ever heard it so I did not know what to listen for.
    First Sound Mark3SI preamp. Audion Black Shadow 845 SET Monoblocks. Mojo Audio Deja Vu Server. Mojo Audio Mystic 3 DAC. Linear Solution Ethernet Switch. Gigafoil with LPS. STST Motus II TT with Vertere SG1 arm, Hana ML Cartridge, Allnic H1201 phono pre. Pure Audio Project Trio 15 Horn speakers with Mundord Supreme oil caps. Power via 10 awg Oyaide cable from panel to custom distribution strip feeding front end. Oyaide dedicated10 AWG branch circuits from panel to each amp. Inakustik speaker and interconnect cables, Genesis Interconnect.
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  17. #17
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    I will not go into what sounds better, I can only say that I have sold all my analog equipment (they will pick it up in a week). Simply since I I bought my Lumin , almost did not use the vinyl.
    Francisco

    Aries Cerat Kassandra Ref. MKII / Taiko Extreme Server / Gryphon Essence Preamplifier and Stereo Amplifier / Rockport Atria I / REL S-812 (2) / Göbel XLR (2), Göbel Ethernet and USB Cables / MIT Magnum MA Speakers Cables / Shunyata Everest 8000 / Shunyata Omega XC (1), Sigma NR V2 (4) and Alfa NR V1 (2) / Taiko Switch / Paul Hynes SR7T Double Rail / Farad Super3 / Doepke DFS-2 40A / GigaWatt G-C16A 2P / Fuse module AHP 4Gi / Center Stage2 0.8, 1.0 and 1.5

  18. #18
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    I also won’t get into the sound, but the numbers don’t lie. I sell more than >30 times more digital related products (DAC, streamers, CD players, etc.) than analog related products (carts, tables, arms, RCM’s).

    From another perspective, for every one $20,000 turntable, I sell 8 $20,000 CD players.

    I’ve tried to understand the “why”. My customers tell me overwhelmingly that vinyl is too much tweaky “sh!t”, they aren’t getting up to change the record every two songs (blaming this on an abundance of 45rpm releases) and once they pour their drink of choice, they just want to relax.

    Digital manufacturers today have really started to figure out how to produce great sound. The advancements in the past 5-10 years have been huge and only getting better. They are paying much closer attention to the analog output stage, clocking, power, etc.

    Also, Tidal. Millions and millions of albums.

    My beef has been recently, too many $40-$50 pressings that are warped, noisy, etc.



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    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  19. #19
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingrex View Post
    All sources have limitations. I have firmly bumped my head with vinyl. I just can't get it to sound anywhere near as good as my digital. Go to Audionirvana and they would pee all over themselves reading that...
    That's not an entirely accurate portrayal of what went down. Innuendo aside, your posts were more like: why can't we (vinylphiles) hear things the way you do or why are some people are so adamant about preferring one medium (vinyl) over all others. Rex, we all hear differently. I derive a closer emotional response to one medium over the other--is that not a good enough answer? The $1 mil system you're referring to is Mike Lavignes (?) I haven't heard his rig but I would imagine his vinyl front end is far from being sub-par. Like I said before you answered your own question and reached a state of perfect happiness, 'nirvana' as it were

  20. #20
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Interesting to observe that in 46 days since the original post there has been a scant 19 posts from 11 members on the dog-eared topic of vinyl versus digital. I interpret this unenthusiastic interest to indicate a general level of fatigue many audio enthusiasts experience about rehashing what amounts to a personal preference issue. I am not surprised by the low participation when discussing this topic. In my opinion, all that can be said has been said. Despite the original poster's encouragement for a heated debate, stirring this old rusty pot doesn't seem to generate much interest anymore.


    Dan

    STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, Shunyata Sigma spdif digital coax,
    Sonos Connect, Stillpoints Ultra SS & Ultra Mini, PurePower 2000, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Michell HR Power Supply, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario

    LIVING ROOM - McIntosh C2300, MC75 (2), MR85, Magnum Dynalab 205 Signal Sleuth, Sonos Connect, Simaudio MOON Neo 260D-T, Schiit Audio Yggdrasil, Aurender N100H, Shunyata Sigma USB cable,
    Sony DAT 60ES, Nakamichi BX-300, Micro Seiki DD40 w/m505A tonearm, Ortofon Cadenza Blue, PS Audio P10, Furutech Flux 50, Stillpoints Ultra Mini, PMC EB1i, JL Audio f113

    VINTAGE - McIntosh 4300V, McIntosh MA230, Tandberg 3011A tuner, Olive 04HD, JBL 4312A

  21. #21
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingrex View Post
    Tape is king. After that it's a toss-up between vinyl and digital. I have also become of the belief that in order to have the very best vinyl you must have some of the best digital. When you have excellent digital such as I believe I have, you are very quickly shown the shortcomings in your vinyl setup. It becomes very easy to hear any bloat congestion or lack of frequency extension in your vinyl set up when you play the same songs compared against your digital.

    They also just voice a little different. That is really it. They are both extremely Musical and engaging to listen to. Last night I was spinning some Jimmy Buffett. Well actually I should say I was listening to it from my internal drive on my server. However I had been using my record player and listening to Jimmy Buffett albums which was still spinning and I thought was actually playing. I was thinking to myself, my God this is some of the best audio I've ever heard in my life. This is after just returning from Miami and listening to Boulder, Wilson raidho, OMA Etc. Very fine multi hundred-thousand-dollar systems. In my opinion, mine was more musically engaging and enjoyable listen to. It did not have the scale and size of the Boulder Wilson combo but it was more musical. Anyhow I was getting ready to get up and lift the needle after Margaritaville when I realized the needle was up and I was only listening to my digitally stored red book version.

    I used to try and say my digital was better than my vinyl. I now say my digital force me to up the performance of my vinyl. The biggest shortcoming of vinyl is the source albums. But this can also be a shortcoming of digital. All-in-all I find my digital has a little more punch, Clarity, black backgrounds. But source does matter. I had been listening to an old Beethoven record I had. It was like some violin Concerto in D. It has been sounding superb on my record player. I thought how does it compare against my digital. I looked around on Tidal,but could not find the exact album. The exact album as in the same Symphony composer recording studio, you know what I mean. This was just the same song from a completely different album. My record ate that digital recording up. Of course this is one of the only times that has happened. If I take an album such as Cat Stevens, Pink Martini, Tony Bennett, Pink Floyd, and play it against my digital, I find the digital to generally be more satisfying. It plays with more gripping Authority out of my system.

    My system may be tuned slightly soft due to its makeup. It consists of 135 watt Altec Lansing 1570b monoblock amplifiers that have been completely rebuilt by Tom to Tutay. I have a first sound Mark 3s preamp by Emmanuel go. My digital side is a Mojo audio server which I have hot rodded myself with software updates. I use an RT audio Ultra USB Orpheus ex DAC. On the analog side I build a turntable based upon the Vertere SG1 tonearm. I use a Denon cartridge in an aluminum head shell with a soundsmith sapphire cantilever and line contact diamond. My phoneo stage is an Allnic H1201. I have pure audio Trio 10 speakers. I have done extensive mods to the speakers. They have much higher quality capacitors chokes and speaker wire lacing. Actually all my gear is somewhat tweet. I buy the components and spend a lot of time making small adjustments to extract the most from them.

    I think I have a pretty darn nice sounding system. So to summarize, in short my digital is not necessarily better than my analog, it's just different.

    I do agree they are different in presentation and you may just prefer your digital system , from experience Digital lacks the ease , naturalness and realism of good analog , you may just not have your analog system up to par vs your digital ..


    Regards

  22. #22
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Quote Originally Posted by jdandy View Post
    Interesting to observe that in 46 days since the original post there has been a scant 19 posts from 11 members on the dog-eared topic of vinyl versus digital. I interpret this unenthusiastic interest to indicate a general level of fatigue many audio enthusiasts experience about rehashing what amounts to a personal preference issue. I am not surprised by the low participation when discussing this topic. In my opinion, all that can be said has been said. Despite the original poster's encouragement for a heated debate, stirring this old rusty pot doesn't seem to generate much interest anymore.



    Easy fix , just throw Magico speakers into the mix and watch it hit 100 ....

  23. #23
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Quote Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
    Easy fix , just throw Magico speakers into the mix and watch it hit 100 ....
    Vs Wilson?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  24. #24
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Lol

  25. #25
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    I agree Mike, I have bought some album of late, paid decent money and they have edge warps. Not good. For the most part unplayable on the outside edge. What I feel I keep encountering are many compounding limitations in vinyl. Less so for digital. I have a personal taste in sound as do everyone. I probably have a bias, but I also believe I have a decent ear. I am hearing comparable well tuned system repeating more accurate performance via digital than vinyl. I have seen some great gear traveling the USA. There seem to be an affinity for vinyl , but most all the owners of both keep playing digital as we converse, not the records. Have you noticed most store trying to sell you anything other than a record player use a digital front end as the source. When host play the records, the nicer systems seem to expose the truth of any defects in the medium. It is difficult to find old pressing on vinyl that are pristine. The damage /defects can jump out causing discomfort. I have records that roar on my system. I bet everyone has some that do to a degree. Ironically, the better the system, the higher the level of exposure. A detailed system will easily expose the noise of the record. Lesser system not as much. A CD may have been mastered poorly, but they don't degrade with age (provided the digital package is complete).

    I Fully agree my vinyl is not to par with my digital for a variety of reasons. For one I am not as excited to tune it. I have maybe 200 records. 100 I listen to. 50 are decent, 20 real good, 10 are pristine. That means 5% are of the same "fresh" quality as 99% of the digital files I have. I have a few bad rips.

    I could also say, for all those that espouse the virtues of vinyl, maybe they don't have their digital up to par with their vinyl. I still hear well seasoned audiophile talking about their great DAC feed by a laptop. Maybe they have moved onto an Ultra Rendu, but there are many level of source improvement above that. And still in digital there is this belief that the DAC is king. I believe the source, the server or CD is king. The DAC is the Queen. It takes both to have a great digital system but it is my experience the source shapes the sound more than the DAC. When you have them both, there is nothing not musically engaging and fully immersing about digital. It's flows with magic. It does not sound any more digital or less in tonal purity than the new record you bought that was mastered on digital then pressed to vinyl.

    In closing, do not take my original statement as in any way not absolutely praising any great system I have listened to. My point is, the better the system, the more important the quality of the material. As you push a hyper detailed system louder and louder, the limitations of an older recording, or lesser piece of vinyl can jump out and get you.
    5% of my vinyl does not have quality limitations.
    Maybe less. If you take a good look at yours and honestly evaluate what you have, what percent of those records are flawless? My digital files are flawless and repeatable every time. They play to their highest level every time. That is most likely the reason I keep hearing digital being nothing but as good as the best vinyl our there.
    First Sound Mark3SI preamp. Audion Black Shadow 845 SET Monoblocks. Mojo Audio Deja Vu Server. Mojo Audio Mystic 3 DAC. Linear Solution Ethernet Switch. Gigafoil with LPS. STST Motus II TT with Vertere SG1 arm, Hana ML Cartridge, Allnic H1201 phono pre. Pure Audio Project Trio 15 Horn speakers with Mundord Supreme oil caps. Power via 10 awg Oyaide cable from panel to custom distribution strip feeding front end. Oyaide dedicated10 AWG branch circuits from panel to each amp. Inakustik speaker and interconnect cables, Genesis Interconnect.
    Kingrexelectric.com Lyncole certified grounding specialist.

  26. #26
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Smith View Post
    Did you forgot to say IMO, or is your statement a known fact among the knowledgeable elite? ...
    A known fact Jim ...

  27. #27
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    @Kingrex ,

    Pretty obvious from your posts your vinyl system and library is subpar vs your Digital library and setup. Also noticeable by his absence , is AJ’s demand of a blind challenge test to see if you really prefer digital ..

    lol

  28. #28
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Of course. My whole stereo is only $40K. Junk by all audiophile standards. I got 9k in digital and 7k in analog. Just enough to purchase a proper cartridge, let alone the rest of the setup. I have no 45 pressing, 3 x 180 gram records and 4 or 5 new standard records. 2 of those new ones have manufacturing flaws. One I returned, the other I never got around too. I just gave it to a friend. I don't seem to find good records. Even Dischogs rarely rates a record as mint. Maybe my bad luck.

    I am considering a new DAC. Rockna Wavedream Signature. Closest I can get to MSB. I would consider the Lampizator Pacific but its out of my price range. I can get a good trade in on my DAC towards the Rockna. Helps the poor like myself continue to improve my setup. I would love an opportunity to do an A/B, blind or not with the Lamp and Rockna and/or even my DAC. Mine is suppose to be good. Quiet and musical, just lacking a little dynamic punch. More liquid and non fatiguing in playback.
    First Sound Mark3SI preamp. Audion Black Shadow 845 SET Monoblocks. Mojo Audio Deja Vu Server. Mojo Audio Mystic 3 DAC. Linear Solution Ethernet Switch. Gigafoil with LPS. STST Motus II TT with Vertere SG1 arm, Hana ML Cartridge, Allnic H1201 phono pre. Pure Audio Project Trio 15 Horn speakers with Mundord Supreme oil caps. Power via 10 awg Oyaide cable from panel to custom distribution strip feeding front end. Oyaide dedicated10 AWG branch circuits from panel to each amp. Inakustik speaker and interconnect cables, Genesis Interconnect.
    Kingrexelectric.com Lyncole certified grounding specialist.

  29. #29
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Good recorded LP’s is a must to beat digital, most standard analog LP pressings are subpar IMO, 7K is more than enuff to show against digital if purchasing some items used...


    regards

  30. #30

    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    It is a common misconception, that if people have some kind of analog system they can judge whether analogue or digital is better.

    First of all, the idea of one having to be better than the other is an unnecessary one. They’re different. Second, before being able to really judge, both would need to be on reference level.

    I would guess though, it will be cheaper to assemble a good digital system. So if there is a strong budget constraint, I’d go digital.

    But it was surprising at Munich High End, in a reference level system with Magico M6 speakers, Soulution Electronics and DAC and a Kronos turntable, the analog system sounded quite a bit better.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  31. #31
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    The chord dave dac may indeed be a big step forward towards better sounding digital sources.
    hifi:
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  32. #32
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Quote Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
    AJ’s demand of a blind challenge test to see if you really prefer digital ..
    I'm not challenging anyones preference. That' silly. Prefer whatever pleases you.
    It's clear many audiophiles can't grasp my discourse. I'm not saying recording X on "analog" LP/tape whatever doesn't sound "better" than recording X in "digital" CD/File, etc. when heard at home, shows etc. Heck, I have a TT just because of that.
    I'm saying that is completely invalid comparison of "analog" vs "digital". So I propose a valid one. A blind test of whatever "analog" one chooses, uber TT playing LP, etc. compared to a "digitized" version of itself in real time. Now let's see said audiophiles pick the "analog" from the "digital" when hearing the only thing ears are capable of, analog soundwaves, since it is they who claim this is audible.
    I'll run the trust ears/just listening test and do my best to contain the grin.
    Then watch folks go right back to preferring whatever pleases them.

    cheers,

    AJ

  33. #33
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Sounds like fun ....

  34. #34
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    It always amuses me to read the first thing said by hardcore vinyl enthusiasts about a person's preference for digital versus vinyl is, "your vinyl system is sub-par versus your digital setup". Without proof source as a reference, it's simply a way for someone to insist their choice is superior with no facts to support the claim. Unless you have actually heard a person's sound system, how would a person know what level the source components play in anyone's system? Comments such as this, with no personal experience to support the opinion, hold no water. It gives me a chuckle every time. Making such a comment assumes you know what is happening without actually knowing what is happening. A comment such as this also discounts the subjective nature of personal choice. It is a subtle put down that essentially says, if you just had a more sophisticated vinyl rig you would see my way is the right way. To me it looks like Yin and Yang. In fact it may be that seemingly opposite or contrary forces may actually be complementary, interconnected, and interdependent, very much like life itself. In my humble opinion, it's all good.


    Dan

    STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, Shunyata Sigma spdif digital coax,
    Sonos Connect, Stillpoints Ultra SS & Ultra Mini, PurePower 2000, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Michell HR Power Supply, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario

    LIVING ROOM - McIntosh C2300, MC75 (2), MR85, Magnum Dynalab 205 Signal Sleuth, Sonos Connect, Simaudio MOON Neo 260D-T, Schiit Audio Yggdrasil, Aurender N100H, Shunyata Sigma USB cable,
    Sony DAT 60ES, Nakamichi BX-300, Micro Seiki DD40 w/m505A tonearm, Ortofon Cadenza Blue, PS Audio P10, Furutech Flux 50, Stillpoints Ultra Mini, PMC EB1i, JL Audio f113

    VINTAGE - McIntosh 4300V, McIntosh MA230, Tandberg 3011A tuner, Olive 04HD, JBL 4312A

  35. #35
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    Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Amen, Dan.

    My bone-in ribeye is better than your filet mignon. Never mind, I can’t see or taste yours; don’t know how it was prepared, cooked, or what was served alongside. But let me tell you nine different ways why you’re wrong and I’m right. Factor in personal tastes (pun) or preferences and you quickly realize how difficult this is.

    All the while, I’m sitting here and only know that I love a good steak. Why can’t we all win and play nice? Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Sean

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  36. #36

    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Quote Originally Posted by jdandy View Post
    It always amuses me to read the first thing said by hardcore vinyl enthusiasts about a person's preference for digital versus vinyl is "your vinyl system is sub-par vs your digital setup". Without proof source as a reference, it's simply a way for someone to insist their choice is superior with no facts to support the claim. Unless you have actually heard a person's sound system, how would a person know what level the source components play in anyone's system? Comments such as this, with no personal experience to support the opinion, hold no water. It gives me a chuckle every time. Making such a comment assumes you know what is happening without actually knowing what is happening. A comment such as this also discounts the subjective nature of personal choice. It is a subtle put down that essentially says, if you just had a more sophisticated vinyl rig you would see my way is the right way. To me it looks like Yin and Yang. In fact it may be that seemingly opposite or contrary forces may actually be complementary, interconnected, and interdependent, very much like life itself. In my humble opinion, it's all good.


    Well, says the guy raving for days on end about a 2K DAC.

    Chacun son gôut.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  37. #37

    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Quote Originally Posted by jdandy View Post
    It always amuses me to read the first thing said by hardcore vinyl enthusiasts about a person's preference for digital versus vinyl is "your vinyl system is sub-par vs your digital setup". Without proof source as a reference, it's simply a way for someone to insist their choice is superior with no facts to support the claim. Unless you have actually heard a person's sound system, how would a person know what level the source components play in anyone's system? Comments such as this, with no personal experience to support the opinion, hold no water.
    Indeed.

    Also, I have heard several top analog systems, and while I love what I heard, I cannot honestly say that I prefer them to my digital, which costs in total less than $ 7K, chump change in today's high end world . Or that they are across the board better.
    Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave

  38. #38

    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    This is so boring. Poor guys insinuating about stuff they can’t afford.

    I think this is the time for me to check out.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  39. #39
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    OK, this thread has run the course, as said earlier, lets go to cables ..............
    Cheers ! …. Dave

  40. #40

    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    Well, says the guy raving for days on end about a 2K DAC.
    A DAC that can hold its own against some other DACs costing more than 10 times as much. You think I don't know what I'm talking about? I have heard the comparison -- in a superlative, high-resolution system (and the owner bought the $ 2K DAC).

    (BTW, while I am often in disagreement with his review style, Robert Harley from TAS thinks the same, if that says anything.)
    Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave

  41. #41

    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    This is so boring. Poor guys insinuating about stuff they can’t afford.
    This is so boring. People who always reflexively think that the expensive stuff is the best engineered, and must sound the best.
    Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave

  42. #42

    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Quote Originally Posted by Al M. View Post
    You think I don't know what I'm talking about?
    Yes, that’s exactly what I am thinking Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark. Sorry.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  43. #43
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikado463 View Post
    lets go to cables ..............
    But only >$100k cables so the peasantry stay away.
    Digital or analog?

  44. #44
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    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    Well, says the guy raving for days on end about a 2K DAC.

    Chacun son gôut.
    Kuoppis.......I don't have a clue what point you attempted to make with that first comment, but I could not agree more with the second comment. You're absolutely right. To each their own.
    Dan

    STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, Shunyata Sigma spdif digital coax,
    Sonos Connect, Stillpoints Ultra SS & Ultra Mini, PurePower 2000, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Michell HR Power Supply, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario

    LIVING ROOM - McIntosh C2300, MC75 (2), MR85, Magnum Dynalab 205 Signal Sleuth, Sonos Connect, Simaudio MOON Neo 260D-T, Schiit Audio Yggdrasil, Aurender N100H, Shunyata Sigma USB cable,
    Sony DAT 60ES, Nakamichi BX-300, Micro Seiki DD40 w/m505A tonearm, Ortofon Cadenza Blue, PS Audio P10, Furutech Flux 50, Stillpoints Ultra Mini, PMC EB1i, JL Audio f113

    VINTAGE - McIntosh 4300V, McIntosh MA230, Tandberg 3011A tuner, Olive 04HD, JBL 4312A

  45. #45

    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    Yes, that’s exactly what I am thinking Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark. Sorry.
    As I said, I have heard the evidence. But perhaps my poor ears are just not as good as a rich man's golden ears.
    Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave

  46. #46

    Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Quote Originally Posted by jdandy View Post
    Kuoppis.......I don't have a clue what point you attempted to make with that first comment, but I could not agree more with the second one. You're absolutely right. To each their own.
    You wrote a long review, plus a lots of comments about the Schiit Yggdrasil DAC if I remember correctly.

    Am I mistaken?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  47. #47

    Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Quote Originally Posted by Al M. View Post
    As I said, I have heard the evidence. But perhaps my poor ears are just not as good as a rich man's golden ears.
    It does not have anything to do with anyone’s ears. It’s just that you are making judgments about analogue based on a sub-par experience. That’s the only point I am challenging.

    Go listen to a proper setup. If you still think the same, then you are at least commenting based on a proper point of reference. You might think 7K is a kick-ass setup, other people might think differently.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  48. #48

    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    It does not have anything to do with anyone’s ears. It’s just that you are making judgments about analogue based on a sub-par experience. That’s the only point I am challenging.

    Go listen to a proper setup. If you still think the same, then you are at least commenting based on a proper point of reference. You might think 7K is a kick-ass setup, other people might think differently.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Ok, you seem to have misread me. The $ 7K number referred to my own digital, not to the analog that I heard. As I said, I listened to several top analog systems. Vinyl rigs up to $ 70 K or more (incl. phono stage). Well-adjusted set-ups, with in each case the owner taking great care of how the set-up is done.
    Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave

  49. #49

    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Quote Originally Posted by Al M. View Post
    Ok, you seem to have misread me. The $ 7K number referred to my own digital, not to the analog that I heard. As I said, I listened to several top analog systems. Vinyl rigs up to $ 70 K or more (incl. phono stage). Well-adjusted set-ups, with in each case the owner taking great care of how the set-up is done.
    Not referring to a dealer setup or a trade show. You can’t hear anything at those. What you have at home counts.

    I am really sorry, but this is really, really boring.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  50. #50

    Re: Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    Not referring to a dealer setup or a trade show. You can’t hear anything at those. What you have at home counts.

    I am really sorry, but this is really, really boring.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Sorry, wrong again. These were all home systems, fine-tuned by the owners over the years.
    Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave

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Analog and Vinyl: no longer the benchmark

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