What is it that makes some pre-amps stand out from others - Page 2
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  1. #11
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    Re: What is it that makes some pre-amps stand out from others

    Welcome to the forum Ryan, very honored to have you here. Thank you for joining.
    Joe

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  2. #12
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    Re: What is it that makes some pre-amps stand out from others

    Ryan, welcome aboard! Thank you for the awesome insight.


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  3. #13
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    Re: What is it that makes some pre-amps stand out from others

    Thanks guys, I appreciate the welcome!

  4. #14
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    Re: What is it that makes some pre-amps stand out from others

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Berry View Post
    ........................................
    As far as measurements...they really tell so little about a product in this industry. Products that measure worse often sound better than products with fantastic measurements. Two products with nearly identical measurements sound completely different from each other. The measurements are great in the sense it at least gives you something to look at since you can't listen to them all, but ultimately they don't do much in how well you'll enjoy the product or what coloration it may be adding to the sound. Charley used to say the most important measurements you can get for a unit is the weight and size. That way you'll know if it'll fit on your shelf and if it can support the weight of the product. I tend to agree.
    Best Regards,
    Ryan Berry
    Ayre Acoustics, Inc.
    You have it backwards. It's listen first (ears only) and then measure to see why the sound different. Measurement is about differences and not about preferences. If the measurements don't show the meaningful differences, why then you made the wrong measurements.

  5. #15
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    Re: What is it that makes some pre-amps stand out from others

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedskater View Post
    You have it backwards. It's listen first (ears only) and then measure to see why the sound different. Measurement is about differences and not about preferences. If the measurements don't show the meaningful differences, why then you made the wrong measurements.
    Great point, and I certainly don't disagree in the realm of R&D. Given enough time and resources, that's certainly an ideal approach to product design and understanding why this product sounds one way while another sounds different. Most people don't have such resources and many designers struggle to have enough time to hear everything, unfortunately.

    My comment was more in regards to listeners choosing which products to listen to with their limited time, not design itself. With audio design, we generally have an idea by this point what may sound better than what and we start there. Then it's days of listening with only enough measurements to make sure we're not designing toward something unusable later...just because something sounds great, people wouldn't be too interested in it if it had bandwidth limitations, for example. Once it sounds just so, then the battery of tests begin to make sure it measures passably while maintaining the quality of sound we wanted. Then do it again, only better!

    Even so, finding the right measurements to show why one amp has more clarity than another, or why one amp has a better soundstage than another often tends to be prohibitively time consuming to figure out how to measure for such things, if they can be at all. The ears usually tell more than an oscilloscope in that regard and I doubt we'll ever have a time that we can make a fully accurate prediction of how an amplifier may sound based solely on how it measures.

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  7. #16
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    Re: What is it that makes some pre-amps stand out from others

    Personally, I think a lot of sonic differences, especially with cables, are occurring at the atomic level, and we canít measure at that level. Yet.
    Bud

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  9. #17
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    Re: What is it that makes some pre-amps stand out from others

    The more I play around with different gear, cables, etc., the more I tend to agree. I do not believe that measurements really tell a whole lot.

    I also think with most gear the intangibles make a greater difference. The companies reputation, the "feel" of the piece both physical and the emotional connection you get. After all, the most important thing is how do you feel when listening to your system... the sound, the emotion.... things that cannot be measured but I truly believe affect what my ears hear.... sometimes a piece that simply feels better to me, either physically or emotionally will sound better, not because it truly sounds better, certainly not that it measures better...
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  11. #18
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    Re: What is it that makes some pre-amps stand out from others

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    Personally, I think a lot of sonic differences, especially with cables, are occurring at the atomic level, and we can’t measure at that level. Yet.
    Oh dear.
    If that's true, then the scientific, medical and instrumentation fields have a real problem.

  12. #19
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    Re: What is it that makes some pre-amps stand out from others

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedskater View Post
    Oh dear.
    If that's true, then the scientific, medical and instrumentation fields have a real problem.
    You ever hear of a miss diagnosis. Hmmm. How could a tool get it wrong
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