Mono and Stereo article on Mike Lavigne system

[a.wayne]

https://www.monoandstereo.com/2018/0...h-end.html?m=1

Congrats MikeL , Rons best report todate ....

[Kuoppis]

Congrats Mike on your very elaborate system. I’m sure it sounds superb.

Very nice write-up.


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[joeinid]

Congratulations Mike !!!!

Great photos and article.

[a.wayne]

Interesting comments in regards to sonics of the SET Lamm, vs PP VAC, and the SS Dartzeel, all 3 good representation of the differing topologies ...

[AJ Soundfield]

So when Ron actually listened, the system overturned many of the misconceived...excuse me, preconceived notions he had about SS etc. It sounded great to him.
But he did zero listening to "digital" (as if the waveforms hitting the ears aren't analog).
Fascinating stuff.

[Mike]

So when Ron actually listened, the system overturned many of the misconceived...excuse me, preconceived notions he had about SS etc. It sounded great to him.
But he did zero listening to "digital" (as if the waveforms hitting the ears aren't analog).
Fascinating stuff.

That’s one way of putting it.


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[Sharp 2160]

Ron has apparently caught some flak for that (no digital) on another forum he frequents. It is nice to read that he realized his presence in person changes everything.

[KeithR]

But he did zero listening to "digital" (as if the waveforms hitting the ears aren't analog).

and who cares? if you want thoughts on Mike's digital, take a trip to Seattle.

[CPP]

Which one is Mike ? the guy with hair or the guy losing his

[joeinid]

Mike and lovely wife on the left.

[CPP]

Mike and lovely wife on the left.

Thanks Joe, never met him, so it was a 50/50 chance I would get it right, but nope I picked the guy on the right. So howdy Mike, awesome looking system.

[Alpinist]

So when Ron actually listened, the system overturned many of the misconceived...excuse me, preconceived notions he had about SS etc. It sounded great to him.
But he did zero listening to "digital" (as if the waveforms hitting the ears aren't analog).
Fascinating stuff.

Outstanding review of a true world class system. Congrats to both Mike and Ron! But not listening to the Select II DAC is like leaving a Ferrari in the garage when you could have taken it out for a test drive.

Ken

[Mike]

But not listening to the Select II DAC is like leaving a Ferrari in the garage when you could have taken it out for a test drive.

Ken

Exactly!


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[joeinid]

Ha! I only figured it out because I found the writers photo on another forum. Mike is a handsome fellow.

Thanks Joe, never met him, so it was a 50/50 chance I would get it right, but nope I picked the guy on the right. So howdy Mike, awesome looking system.

[AJ Soundfield]

Ron has apparently caught some flak for that (no digital) on another forum he frequents.

I find those type of stigmas entertaining, more so if I know which concert halls he's been to (assuming he's not just a rocker like Fremer).
Mike should have slipped in some digital recordings of his LPs or tape since Ron was enjoying the system so.

[AJ Soundfield]

But not listening to the Select II DAC is like leaving a Ferrari in the garage when you could have taken it out for a test drive.

Yeah, Ron's preconceptions and prejudice about SS etc, were completely overturned listening to this system...but only with "analog", not with "digital" (once again, as if the soundwaves aren't from analogs). Oh wait, he didn't listen to digital...never mind.

[KeithR]

Yeah, Ron's preconceptions and prejudice about SS etc, were completely overturned listening to this system...but only with "analog", not with "digital" (once again, as if the soundwaves aren't from analogs). Oh wait, he didn't listen to digital...never mind.

Ron has been rather transparent on the subject. He was there to hear 3 types of amplification because it relates to his own system build. Digital vs analog was never a subject to be entertained on a limited visit. He's not even putting a digital setup in his new system.

Sorry, but I think you're crapping on his visit for no reason.

[AJ Soundfield]

Sorry, but I think you're crapping on his visit for no reason.

No one is "crapping on his visit". He seemed to enjoy it. Bravo.
I'm bemused by the bigotry of audiophiles, you know, the very first ones to point their fingers at others about their "closed mindedness".
I've experienced it numerous times first hand.

[Sharp 2160]

I find those type of stigmas entertaining, more so if I know which concert halls he's been to (assuming he's not just a rocker like Fremer).
Mike should have slipped in some digital recordings of his LPs or tape since Ron was enjoying the system so.

It is the first part of the article. He attends Disney hall. That makes sense as he resides here in Southern California.

[AJ Soundfield]

It is the first part of the article. He attends Disney hall. That makes sense as he resides here in Southern California.

The side walls of the room form a large, shallow oval. This is interesting because when I visited Walt Disney Concert Hall I noticed there are no straight planes or right angle surfaces anywhere

I read that as written, a one time thing. Not, "whenever I visit".
Still would like to know some others, he seems well traveled.

[Mordante]

Outstanding review of a true world class system. Congrats to both Mike and Ron! But not listening to the Select II DAC is like leaving a Ferrari in the garage when you could have taken it out for a test drive.

Ken

I've heard the MBS DAC at two shows. I always wondered how a 100k euro DAC can sound so mediocre.

[Alpinist]

I've heard the MBS DAC at two shows. I always wondered how a 100k euro DAC can sound so mediocre.

The MSB DACs are made in the USA and their Select II is one of the best sounding DACs on the market in my opinion.

Ken

[Mike Lavigne]

thanks guys, for all the nice comments. I enjoyed Ron's visit.

as far as listening to digital or not; I listen to 60% digital and love it, but Ron (or any visitor to my room) might chose hear other things they have an interest in, and I enjoy my visitors hearing what makes them happy. I have plenty of vinyl and tape to hear.

Ron's amplifier questions were front and center and his focus.

[Kuoppis]

I've heard the MBS DAC at two shows. I always wondered how a 100k euro DAC can sound so mediocre.

This is interesting. Why do you say that?


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[tkcha]

I heard it twice and my impression was very different than Mordante,The System sound was amazing none to less I guess one of big reason is MSB Select2.

[Golum]

The MSB DACs are made in the USA and their Select II is one of the best sounding DACs on the market in my opinion.

Ken

Hi Ken;

I really very much appreciate your comments as they are always based on personal observations and what you heard which is also the case in this answer. I just don't get the point about "made in the USA" - does it make it any better than the rest due to the country of the origin?

Cheers;
G

[Mike Lavigne]

Hi Ken;

I really very much appreciate your comments as they are always based on personal observations and what you heard which is also the case in this answer. I just don't get the point about "made in the USA" - does it make it any better than the rest due to the country of the origin?

Cheers;
G

hi G,

I think Ken was simply correcting Mordante's post #21 above where he seemed to refer to the MSB as a 100k euro dac (Mordante was likely referring to monetary unit value and not location).

I've heard the MBS DAC at two shows. I always wondered how a 100k euro DAC can sound so mediocre.

our hemispheric/continental word uses can confuse our meanings sometimes. :-)

[wisnon]

hi G,

I think Ken was simply correcting Mordante's post #21 above where he seemed to refer to the MSB as a 100k euro dac (Mordante was likely referring to monetary unit value and not location).



our hemispheric/continental word uses can confuse our meanings sometimes. :-)

The Select 1 was indeed mediocre and maybe that is what he heard. The select 1 I heard in 2015 was most underwhelming. Ears I trust tell me that the S2 is a quantum leap improvement. You know both the ears I speak about...

[sharkmouth]

The Select 1 was indeed mediocre and maybe that is what he heard. The select 1 I heard in 2015 was most underwhelming. Ears I trust tell me that the S2 is a quantum leap improvement. You know both the ears I speak about...

....
... Norman, why don't you use your own,.... they're certainly big enough

[Alpinist]

Hi Ken;

I really very much appreciate your comments as they are always based on personal observations and what you heard which is also the case in this answer. I just don't get the point about "made in the USA" - does it make it any better than the rest due to the country of the origin?

Cheers;
G

Mike L. nailed it, Golum. When Mordante said it was a “euro DAC”, I thought he was saying it was made in Europe and I was simply pointing out it was made in the USA. I was not saying USA DACs are better the European DACs. I would never make such a blanket statement.

Ken

[wisnon]

....
... Norman, why don't you use your own,.... they're certainly big enough

OK, send me your Select 2 and I will oblige. Hehehe

[ack]

I've heard the MBS DAC at two shows. I always wondered how a 100k euro DAC can sound so mediocre.

First, I do not believe that Ron would not have the itch to listen to a $100K DAC, also considering how much time he spent over there. Second, your comment echoes that of the local dealer who will not carry it, because it does not perform. In other words, I suspect Ron did listen to it, was not impressed, and is leaving it out of his report.

[Mike]

First, I do not believe that Ron would not have the itch to listen to a $100K DAC, also considering how much time he spent over there. Second, your comment echoes that of the local dealer who will not carry it, because it does not perform. In other words, I suspect Ron did listen to it, was not impressed, and is leaving it out of his report.

Ron didn’t listen to it. If he did, he would have been blown away like Mike and I am.


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[Alpinist]

First, I do not believe that Ron would not have the itch to listen to a $100K DAC, also considering how much time he spent over there. Second, your comment echoes that of the local dealer who will not carry it, because it does not perform. In other words, I suspect Ron did listen to it, was not impressed, and is leaving it out of his report.

Mike Lavigne gave no indication that Ron ever listened to the Select II DAC while he was at his house, so stating this is pure speculation on your part.

Ken

[Mike Lavigne]

First, I do not believe that Ron would not have the itch to listen to a $100K DAC, also considering how much time he spent over there. Second, your comment echoes that of the local dealer who will not carry it, because it does not perform. In other words, I suspect Ron did listen to it, was not impressed, and is leaving it out of his report.

one can only guess what would cause you to come to such a conclusion.

maybe you are still pissed about this?

sad.

[ack]

You can try to guess and speculate all you want, but I don't believe Ron would not have the itch to listen to it, even if for a brief moment.

[Alpinist]

You can try to guess and speculate all you want, but I don't believe Ron would not have the itch to listen to it, even if for a brief moment.

If Mike Lavigne says Ron didn’t listen to the MSB Select II DAC while at his house, his word is good enough for me.

Ken

[SCAudiophile]

Mike L.: Congratulations on a fantastic review and yet another set of accolades for your system!!!

[mep]

First of all, everybody who refers to RR’s house visit reports needs to stop confusing them with actual reviews. RR has not had a stereo system or a room to put it in for 5-6 years, so he is incapable of writing an actual review of anything. After RR visited the Gryphon factory and wrote his visit report, people started referring to that visit as a review. Gryphon took exception to that and stated it was not a review, it was just RR’s thoughts on his visit. Second, RR had his motivations for his visit at MikeL’s house. RR has publically stated numerous times he has no interest in digital and that included his visit to MikeLs house. So Ack, I think you are wrong that RR heard the MSB at MikeL’s house and didn’t like it, but kept his mouth shut. RR has no problem trashing real reviewers so I have no doubts he would use his poison pen to disparage the MSB if he heard it and didn’t like it.

[ack]

Here's something to consider, using Ron's own language:

I have zero interest in digital audio. We used the digital system only to warm up the darTZeel amplifiers during an extended lunch break.

I do not believe Ron did not listen to a single note from digital, even if he doesn't care for digital. He was there to describe the system.

[mep]

Here's something to consider, using Ron's own language:



I do not believe Ron did not listen to a single note from digital, even if he doesn't care for digital. He was there to describe the system.

He was there to hear the VAC and the Lamm ML3 amps. So what if he heard one note of digital before MikeL muted the MSB that was warming up the system? Do you really care about seconds or minutes when someone with no system or room who hates digital gives their impression of what they heard?

[KeithR]

You can try to guess and speculate all you want, but I don't believe Ron would not have the itch to listen to it, even if for a brief moment.

Rons a good friend of mine. And you are 100% wrong.

[jadedavid]

Does it REALLY matter what RR heard or didn't hear? Or what he likes or doesn't like?
Just saying

[AJ Soundfield]

Does it REALLY matter what RR heard or didn't hear?

In a thread specifically about RR listening to Mike Ls system? I say yes, very much.
Now, does his purely subjective impression, however brief, matter more or less than any other, including self anointed "true" "reviewers" and others who decree themselves as the final arbiters of sound, etc? IMO, no.
To me, it's all just subjective impressions/opinion, not a d1ck measuring contest. YMMV.

p.s. does RR being a "fake" reviewer make his articles "fake news"? Stay tuned.....

[Al M.]

To me, it's all just subjective impressions/opinion, not a d1ck measuring contest. YMMV.

Good one. Sometimes I do get the impression that this hobby is in part a d1ck measuring contest.

[wisnon]

Too many are becoming curmudgeons....

[brad225]

Good one. Sometimes I do get the impression that this hobby is in part a d1ck measuring contest.

My experience has been. Get 12 or more audiophiles together and at least 2 will have a tape measure in their pocket.

[Al M.]

My experience has been. Get 12 or more audiophiles together and at least 2 will have a tape measure in their pocket.

LOL!

[XV-1]

First of all, everybody who refers to RR’s house visit reports needs to stop confusing them with actual reviews. RR has not had a stereo system or a room to put it in for 5-6 years, so he is incapable of writing an actual review of anything. After RR visited the Gryphon factory and wrote his visit report, people started referring to that visit as a review. Gryphon took exception to that and stated it was not a review, it was just RR’s thoughts on his visit. Second, RR had his motivations for his visit at MikeL’s house. RR has publically stated numerous times he has no interest in digital and that included his visit to MikeLs house. So Ack, I think you are wrong that RR heard the MSB at MikeL’s house and didn’t like it, but kept his mouth shut. RR has no problem trashing real reviewers so I have no doubts he would use his poison pen to disparage the MSB if he heard it and didn’t like it.

Gryphon can't have taken too much exception to Ron's fake review considering its still on Mono and Stereo as a Review. At least this nicely written article did not have the " review" word.

Gryphon Audio Pendragon Four Chassis Loudspeaker system review

https://www.monoandstereo.com/2015/02/gryphon-audio-pendragon-four-chassis.html

[AJ Soundfield]

"Hell hath no fury like a reviewer scorned"

...and now back to our feature presentation, Mike L's system...