ARC Ref 10 vs CJ GAT(2) ?

[joeinid]

Has anyone either compared the two directly or in similar systems? Besides the Ref 10 being fully balanced vs the GAT(2) being fully single ended, any thoughts about performance and sound?

[XV-1]

This will be good

[joeinid]

[Kuoppis]

LOL, just add Counterpoint to the mix and you always have three opinions .


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[heihei]

Am guessing you've seen Roy Gregory's review of both of these.....

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/blog/trio_preamps.htm

I've spent quite a bit of time with the Ref 10 and happy to comment, but not the CJ.

[XV-1]

.......

[XV-1]

Its pretty clear from Gregory's review, the ref 10 came third.

There is a humanity and lack of grain or artifice that make the C-J’s presentation very special indeed. In comparison, the Audio Research preamp is smoothed off and lacking both delicacy and intimacy.


his views pretty much match what I have heard when I have owned ARC pre amp and heard them - neutral they are not.
cj GAT is like crystal clear running water.

[heihei]

IMHO the ref 10 paints a grand picture of the music - if you like sitting at the back of the hall listening to the overall effect then you'd love it. As such though, you miss out on a lot of detail that most of us like to enjoy. I decided it wasn't for me therefore. Sadly not had the opportunity to try either the CJ or VTL.

[Alpinist]

Hi Joe,

If my system was single-ended, I would have definitely auditioned the CJ GAT2 based on the wonderful things I've heard about it. However, since my system is fully balanced, which offers greater noise reduction and increased output voltage over SE, and my monoblocks only have balanced inputs (like your M400's), I consider it a non-starter.

The Ref 10 offers amazing nuance and delicacy, 3D soundstaging and an overall musicality, which places it right at the top of the preamp chain. It’s no coincidence how many reference systems have the Ref 10 as their preamp.

Best,
Ken

[joeinid]

Thank you for that link. I have not seen it. I’ve always been a CJ fan (and GAT fan of course) but thought I’d see what everyone thinks.

Am guessing you've seen Roy Gregory's review of both of these.....

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/blog/trio_preamps.htm

I've spent quite a bit of time with the Ref 10 and happy to comment, but not the CJ.

[Mike]

The GAT2 and REF10, along with the VAC Master/Statement are the three best “modern” tube preamps I’ve ever heard.

At the end of the day, it’s all about proper pairing, synergy, taste, etc.

[CPP]

Why don't the CJ's have balanced connections

[Alpinist]

Why don't the CJ's have balanced connections

Because CJ believes that a balanced circuit is a solution looking for a problem. In other words, they prefer the shorter and simpler signal path of a single-ended circuit.

Best,
Ken

[KeithR]

Since your Dags are fully balanced, I'd go with a fully balanced preamp.

You've already owned the Ref 6 and didn't like it, so I would try a Vac.

[joeinid]

Hi Keith,

I’ve had a VAC in the past and I know Mike loves the newer ones. I have a demo of a Ref 10 coming, so I’m very excited despite not being excited about the Ref 6. I know from others that the Ref 10 is in another class, not aggressive nor edgy but big and bold, smooth and detailed.

Plus, it should be a great combo with the D’Agostino amps.

Stay tuned.

[KeithR]

Cool, best way to find out! I've heard the Ref 10 several times now - it's definitely pretty amazing. In fact, heard one on your Dags two weeks ago.

Hope you aren't trying to warm up the sound a bit though - the Ref 10 won't do that. Very neutral preamp.

[joeinid]

Cool, best way to find out! I've heard the Ref 10 several times now - it's definitely pretty amazing. In fact, heard one on your Dags two weeks ago.

Hope you aren't trying to warm up the sound a bit though - the Ref 10 won't do that. Very neutral preamp.

I've heard that too. I expect with the Dags (which have a slight sweetness to them) for everything to be pretty much down the middle.

[Sharp 2160]

I've heard that too. I expect with the Dags (which have a slight sweetness to them) for everything to be pretty much down the middle.

That is how my system turned out. The match between ARC Ref 10 and D'Agostino monoblocks is popular with a few others and works. I have tried many combinations of both tube and solid state. I am very satisfied with the Ref 10. That separate power supply is there for a good reason!

[MikeCh]

I've heard that too. I expect with the Dags (which have a slight sweetness to them) for everything to be pretty much down the middle.

Nice Joe!

[cmalak]

Hi Keith,

I’ve had a VAC in the past and I know Mike loves the newer ones. I have a demo of a Ref 10 coming, so I’m very excited despite not being excited about the Ref 6. I know from others that the Ref 10 is in another class, not aggressive nor edgy but big and bold, smooth and detailed.

Plus, it should be a great combo with the D’Agostino amps.

Stay tuned.

Just make sure you don’t stack them when you operate them

[joeinid]

Nice Joe!

Thank you Mike.

Just make sure you don’t stack them when you operate them

Ha!

That much I do know. Just seeing that photo on their website makes me a little nervous.

[joeinid]

I have no doubt that the Ref 10 is unlike any other preamp, let alone any other ARC preamp.

That is how my system turned out. The match between ARC Ref 10 and D'Agostino monoblocks is popular with a few others and works. I have tried many combinations of both tube and solid state. I am very satisfied with the Ref 10. That separate power supply is there for a good reason!

[the professor]

I never had the Ref 10 with the Dags but I did have the Ref 40 which was a 2 box design much like the Ref 10.

My 2 fav preamps with the Dags were the KXR20 and the Dag preamp.

[joeinid]

I could see the KXR-20 mating VERY well. I could consider giving the Dag pre another try at some point. My Luxman is wonderful, I am not even sure why I'm looking.

I never had the Ref 10 with the Dags but I did have the Ref 40 which was a 2 box design much like the Ref 10.

My 2 fav preamps with the Dags were the KXR20 and the Dag preamp.

[the professor]

Because you are crazy like the rest of us

....... I am not even sure why I'm looking.

[joeinid]

Guilty as charged

Because you are crazy like the rest of us

[XV-1]

Joe. You should try and get a demo of the pre amps at home.

You will find the best pre amp will sound the best, regardless if it balanced or single ended.

[joeinid]

I totally agree, balanced vs SE shouldn’t matter.

Joe. You should try and get a demo of the pre amps at home.

You will find the best pre amp will sound the best, regardless if it balanced or single ended.

[hifinutt]

Although I adore arc pretty amps having to send 2 massive boxes for repair would put me off

[Harlequin]

The thing is, unless you roll in NOS valves you will not be experiencing what the Ref10 is capable of. I run mine with mid 70's production GE6550A regulators and a full set of NOS 80's production Reflector 6h30-DR's.

IMHO the 10 with factory New production Sovtek's sounds somewhat hard and glassy by comparison.

[joeinid]

I would hope for reliability but sometimes gear needs to be repaired. I know in the past, ARC has been extremely aggressive sorting out issues. I have high confidence in ARC and their customer service.

Although I adore arc pretty amps having to send 2 massive boxes for repair would put me off

[joeinid]

I bet that sounds glorious, but I’m sure isn’t cheap to install. I’ll have to search out those tubes.

The thing is, unless you roll in NOS valves you will not be experiencing what the Ref10 is capable of. I run mine with mid 70's production GE6550A regulators and a full set of NOS 80's production Reflector 6h30-DR's.

IMHO the 10 with factory New production Sovtek's sounds somewhat hard and glassy by comparison.

[Harlequin]

I bet that sounds glorious, but I’m sure isn’t cheap to install. I’ll have to search out those tubes.

That is the down side Unfortunatly, genuine NOS 6h30-DR's in particular not to mention the minefield of several EBay sellers listing new production Sovtek (ergo what you have anyway) as genuine Pre 1995 production, there is a very comprehencive article with several comparison shots illustrating the thre main differences in the internal build that identifies the genuine NOS valves, I shall try and dig it out for you.

[joeinid]

Thank you so much. I don’t know if I will be able to spend what’s necessary to acquire a full set of those tubes but I certainly want to maximize the sound quality.

[Alpinist]

Thank you so much. I don’t know if I will be able to spend what’s necessary to acquire a full set of those tubes but I certainly want to maximize the sound quality.

I know someone who just looked into obtaining a pair of the GE 6550A rectifier tubes for a Ref 10. He was not able to find a matched pair as they are now very rare. If you can find them, they will cost big bucks.

Ken

[Mike]

I know someone who just looked into obtaining a pair of the GE 6550A rectifier tubes for a Ref 10. He was not able to find a matched pair as they are now very rare. If you can find them, they will cost big bucks.

Ken

I have quite a few. . Matched too. Haven’t tried them. I love the REF10 the way it comes!


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[joeinid]

Even a full replacement set from ARC is about $1500 retail but they say that they are fully tested, vetted and matched. They even mention what sockets the tubes are supposed to be installed in.

[Alpinist]

I have quite a few. . Matched too. Haven’t tried them. I love the REF10 the way it comes!


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Me too! Are there any tubes you don’t have?

Ken

[Mike]

Me too! Are there any tubes you don’t have?

Ken

Loads! But I have quite a few. Had a closet custom built to hold them all.


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[tkcha]

Hi I am new here but longtime looker and longtime audiophile if you talking about statement tube preamp dont forget about less known company for north amerca like Allnic Audio. Their Linestages are less popular compare to phonostages. Their are not much talk about new L7000 linestage and L8000 DHT pre amp but dam good linestages I heard last year in South korea, Audiomentos part owner of Allnic audio matched with M5000 AKA Titans mono blocks with Focal Maestro Evo,Wilson Bensch Cardinal,Dynaudio Master Temptation speakers. It was life time experience I am an owner of their H3000 and T2000 Anniversary Inergrated amp owner so you figured already I love their sound
L-7000


L-8000 DHT



and mine

[joeinid]

Absolutely beautiful gear. Thank you for your recommendation. I’ve always been interested in Allnic Audio.

[tkcha]

Hi Joeinid if you interesting either L7000 or L8000 DHT contact Albert Porter from audiogon or you can talk to DR. Park himself he speak english very well.

[joeinid]

Thank you. I’ll have to see if the Ref 10 preamp works out or not.

[Jack]

Joe

Does Mark Jones still carry Allnic gear? He doesn't seem to visit the site anymore.

[joeinid]

I’m not really sure, but I can ask. I think Sunil (?) in NJ still might carry them.

Joe

Does Mark Jones still carry Allnic gear? He doesn't seem to visit the site anymore.

[tkcha]

Hi Joe and Jack he is no more Allnic dealer since David Beetle from hammertone audio gave up for north america distributorship to Albert porter. It gave him kind of difficulty dealing with US and weak canadien dollar was not helping either. Now hammertone audio cameback for canada after few years off from audio business.

[joeinid]

Thank you for the history and information. I didn’t realize all the changes.

[brad225]

I have quite a few. . Matched too. Haven’t tried them. I love the REF10 the way it comes!


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Since you already have them Mike, do give them a try. I am glad Harlequin suggested them to me.

[Randy Myers]

So Joe... when is the Ref 10 arriving? I am interested in your opinion... I know it is a completely different level, but I am happy I finally got an ARC pre-amp!!!

Always love hearing your experience with trying new gear ...

[joeinid]

Hi Randy,

I’m demoing now. It’s insane. Big, smooth, bold, tremendous 3D, wonderful musicality without any aggressive nature. It’s not ARC-like.