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  1. #1
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    What's with the trend in amp design?

    I am seeing, or should I say, hearing, so many new amps that have voicing that is very tipped up in the upper range. Bright. Sibilant. Aggressive.

    Now, I realize some people may actually like "bite", but most do not.

    I do not understand this trend. Where did it come from? Is it coming from a particular reviewer who likely can't hear above 10Khz? Is it coming from customers? Where is it coming from?

    I'm afraid all this does is lead back to the infamous Toole's Circle of Confusion.
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  2. #2
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    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    SS or across the board incl tubes? its probably why most of my gear is 'vintage' except for my digital source.

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    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Mike,
    Are you seeing this in any particular price category or market segment - or across the board?

  4. #4
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    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Quote Originally Posted by puroagave View Post
    SS or across the board incl tubes? its probably why most of my gear is 'vintage' except for my digital source.
    SS.


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  5. #5
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    What's with the trend in amp design?

    Quote Originally Posted by GSOphile View Post
    Mike,
    Are you seeing this in any particular price category or market segment - or across the board?
    More in redesigns. “We need a new version, let’s tip it up.” What’s guiding these decisions? I’m trying to figure out - is this through market research? Influence from reviewers? I mean, JV is constantly praising top end extension. Is it coming from there?

    Am I alone in this? Maybe others aren’t hearing it.


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  6. #6
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    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    I've heard and owned a lot of amps. Some of the newest were certainly more "open" and "clean". I am not a fan. I can't stand the truth, or too forward a sound.

    I always prefer sweeter and slightly rounded highs. A lot of the newer amps, to my ear, seem more aggressive.
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  7. #7
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    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Maybe the amps are doing their job, and exposing something downstream.
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  8. #8
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    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    Maybe the amps are doing their job, and exposing something downstream.
    You might be correct. A more accurate interpretation of the music.

    As I stated elsewhere swapping out my original Momentum's (part of the first 35 pair produced) for new M-400's has been great except they can be very unforgiving with a poor or hot recording. Everything is more accurate but that has changed what I hear in the highs so far.
    Jim

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  9. #9
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    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Hi Jim,

    I’m sure a little break in might help the situation. My amps are well broken in and while I agree the M400 amps are clear and open, they are the opposite of harsh or aggressive. A few of my previous amps were very uncomfortable. These D’Agostino amps are stunning, in my opinion. I’m a little sensitive to sibilants and my amps have none of it. They truly are the best amps I’ve ever owned .


    Quote Originally Posted by still-one View Post
    You might be correct. A more accurate interpretation of the music.

    As I stated elsewhere swapping out my original Momentum's (part of the first 35 pair produced) for new M-400's has been great except they can be very unforgiving with a poor or hot recording. Everything is more accurate but that has changed what I hear in the highs so far.
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  10. #10

    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I am seeing, or should I say, hearing, so many new amps that have voicing that is very tipped up in the upper range. Bright. Sibilant. Aggressive.

    Now, I realize some people may actually like "bite", but most do not.

    I do not understand this trend. Where did it come from? Is it coming from a particular reviewer who likely can't hear above 10Khz? Is it coming from customers? Where is it coming from?

    I'm afraid all this does is lead back to the infamous Toole's Circle of Confusion.
    Mike,

    Do you have some amplifier models in mind you could share?

    What conditions the objects of this trend was observed under? (speakers,preamp, sources, etc.)

    Dre

  11. #11

    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    It seems like most positive reviews say something like, "all of the resolve but without the harsh digital edge." Maybe this is the mark that every manufacturer is trying to hit, but very few actually do.

  12. #12
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    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I do not understand this trend. Where did it come from? Is it coming from a particular reviewer who likely can't hear above 10Khz? Is it coming from customers? Where is it coming from?
    Well, if the designer of said amp can't hear above 10k, that might provide some clues. It might be going unnoticed where it needs to be noticed most.
    That said, the specific mystery amp may be misbehaving in a particular setup, rather than across the board. Name some names ;-)

  13. #13
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    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dre_J View Post
    Mike,

    Do you have some amplifier models in mind you could share?

    What conditions the objects of this trend was observed under? (speakers,preamp, sources, etc.)

    Dre
    I don’t want to pick out any particular amps, because there’s likely people here who own them. But Joe and I have talked extensively about particular amps in private. We are in agreement.

    We have seen people buy amps and flip them very fast. Uh hum...

    I’ve just noticed a real trend for treble extension, increased sibilance and “bite” across SOME new SS amps and I’m trying understand why. What on earth would drive such voicing changes?


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  14. #14

    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I don’t want to pick out any particular amps, because there’s likely people here who own them. But Joe and I have talked extensively about particular amps in private. We are in agreement.

    We have seen people buy amps and flip them very fast. Uh hum...

    I’ve just noticed a real trend for treble extension, increased sibilance and “bite” across SOME new SS amps and I’m trying understand why. What on earth would drive such voicing changes?


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    I don't know Mike. Without scenarios and names it's hard to know a specific perspective for sure.

    What I can say is there is just as much variety in sonic choice (pick your favorite attribute and insert it here) as there has been in recent years. I'm uncertain if this is a trend given the choices available.

    System matching seems to be the case (or not) for some situations that gives the results we notice. At this day and age, I'd expect any amplifier to be free from egregious distortions. Voicing is one thing but I don't expect a quality amplifier to have distortion causing/related issues you mentioned.

    Finally, there are so many variables with each individual system that it's hard to pin down when things are not functioning well -at least not in unfamiliar systems. The again, sometimes the new equipment just doesn't work in the system the way the new owner thought it would.

    Dre

  15. #15
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    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    I am one that doesn't particularly care for rounded sound, I do like extended highs and air, however, if the overall sound is out of balance, for example the highs draw my attention, that's a turn off and especially if the highs aren't smooth or have a bite. So maybe I'm even harder to please, LOL

    Mike I'm sure hears more gear then mme to say, I have not noticed the trend. I'm confident in your assessment though. I personally was under the impression an industry trend in amps was to move to the warm side of neutral.

    I'm also wondering how much, if any, is attributed to newer tweeter material. Not that brillium is bad, just as an example,, a lot of manufacturers are using it, I suppose as a selling point. I see more ribbons than ever before, more horns. It's all in application as to if it crosses a line. Even done well, the higher the resolution the better the upstream has to be.
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  16. #16
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    What's with the trend in amp design?

    You raise some excellent points. I was speaking more of v1 to v2 for an amp. If 1.0 sounds great, why dramatically change the house sound in the 2.0? Just refine it a little, but don’t make a BMW into a Kia just for the sake of change.


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  17. #17

    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    You raise some excellent points. I was speaking more of v1 to v2 for an amp. If 1.0 sounds great, why dramatically change the house sound in the 2.0? Just refine it a little, but don’t make a BMW into a Kia just for the sake of change.


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    That's being more specific. I've observed voicing changes going in both directions before. It's a valid observation.

  18. #18

    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dre_J View Post
    That's being more specific. I've observed voicing changes going in both directions before. It's a valid observation.

    Perhaps the subjective taste of the designer? For example like Pass. He said a few times in that he voices his amps to sound like tubes. That is one of his design goals.

    Or perhaps maybe you have something downstream coloring the sound? As another member posted.

  19. #19
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    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    For my taste, splitting the difference between the Pass Labs .5 and .8 amps might be perfect. I think the new 611/1.25 McIntosh amps may have overshot the 452/601/1.2 amps too much.

    I loved my CJ ART amps, but I have not heard the new 40th anniversary series. I read comments like “extended highs” on the new gear and it makes me a little nervous. I confess to wanting an ART 150 for the heck of it, but I’d absolutely need a demo before buying.
    Last edited by joeinid; March 20, 2018 at 09:16 AM.
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  20. #20
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    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Quote Originally Posted by joeinid View Post
    For my taste, splitting the difference between the Pass Labs .5 and .8 amps might be perfect.
    Pass has already done this with the XS series. And they are.

    It would be interesting to find out which speakers and cables were used for voicing these overly bright sounding amps. Nowadays it seems there's a bigger difference than ever between those that are revealing and those that are "rounded".
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  21. #21
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    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Hmmm, I haven’t heard the XS amps. Maybe I better not

    Maybe if they were priced closer to the .8 and weren’t so hot

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sandman View Post
    Pass has already done this with the XS series. And they are.

    It would be interesting to find out which speakers and cables were used for voicing these overly bright sounding amps. Nowadays it seems there's a bigger difference than ever between those that are revealing and those that are "rounded".
    Last edited by joeinid; March 20, 2018 at 09:32 AM.
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  22. #22

    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I don’t want to pick out any particular amps, because there’s likely people here who own them. But Joe and I have talked extensively about particular amps in private. We are in agreement.

    We have seen people buy amps and flip them very fast. Uh hum...

    I’ve just noticed a real trend for treble extension, increased sibilance and “bite” across SOME new SS amps and I’m trying understand why. What on earth would drive such voicing changes?


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    Uh, aren't you talking about Joe? Joe is the grand pooh bah of flipping gear. Seriously, you aren't providing enough information to put things into context. You don't want to name names and we have no idea of what kind of systems these offensive amps are in and whether they are all digital based. And why would this trend be just amplifier related? If a company is making an amp that is intentionally bright, why wouldn't their preamps do the same thing?

    Digital brought us the loudness wars that served to kill off any semblance of dynamic range in order to make every recording try and stand out by shouting louder than the last recording you just heard. Maybe now we are in a new phase called the brightness wars.
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  23. #23
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    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    Uh, aren't you talking about Joe? Joe is the grand pooh bah of flipping gear. Seriously, you aren't providing enough information to put things into context. You don't want to name names and we have no idea of what kind of systems these offensive amps are in and whether they are all digital based. And why would this trend be just amplifier related? If a company is making an amp that is intentionally bright, why wouldn't their preamps do the same thing?

    Digital brought us the loudness wars that served to kill off any semblance of dynamic range in order to make every recording try and stand out by shouting louder than the last recording you just heard. Maybe now we are in a new phase called the brightness wars.
    Agree Mark. More data is needed. Based on what Mike noted, one could think that based on the gear he carries, he could be seeing a change in all of this products towards more of a "Bright. Sibilant, Aggressive" sound as Mike noted..

    If a manufacturer changes their design scheme, one would think those improved methods of a new version would carry on down to their pre-amps, integrated amps and dacs if one made dacs not just amps.
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  24. #24
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    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    When I replaced my McIntosh MC501 mono block amplifiers with a pair of McIntosh MC601's I noticed a more prominent level of midrange energy that moved the presentation forward in the soundstage, plus a new quickness to dynamic peaks that made the amplifiers seem quicker. These adjustments were not so dramatic as to be objectionable but it definitely presented a shift in the McIntosh house sound. By comparison the MC601's made the MC501's sound slightly darker. This new house sound was also introduced in the McIntosh MC452 stereo power amplifier, and the MC2301 tube mono block power amplifiers. Although I have not auditioned the newest McIntosh MC1.25KW mono block power amplifiers, I imagine this same voicing is present in that amplifier when compared to the older MC1.2KW amplifier.

    It makes sense for a manufacturer to eventually make some sonic adjustments to their house sound when new products are introduced in an effort to create the impression of a fresh direction, something that would encourage owners of similar components to abandon older amplifiers for the newest amplifiers. It is a fine line for amplifier designers to tread when altering a revered house sound that is appreciated by faithful followers. In the case of McIntosh's newest amplifiers, the slight sonic shift was in the right direction without loosing the rich timbrel accuracy that is the common thread woven through decades of their products. An important factor in my mind is that a manufacture does not bring about a steady stream of new products, one right after the other, with each one touting a voicing adjustment. Eventually these audio components drift into an area where consumers are no longer confident amplifiers they purchase today will not be perceived as obsolete in short order.

    I have no idea whether audio manufacturers intents are to exaggerate any part of the audio frequency range, but I do know that ultra analytical presentations often emphasize a more starkly chiseled upper midrange. When the source material is well mixed and mastered this can be fabulous, but it can quickly turn south for a listener's ears when less than stellar recordings are being reproduced. It is a narrow path we follow when building a high-end system, and as always our individual perception of what sounds good determines the products we embrace.
    Dan

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  25. #25

    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    Maybe the amps are doing their job, and exposing something downstream.
    While I agree with others that there are amps that are on the bright side, this is a good point. I think that was also lost in some of the endless analog vs. digital discussions of yesteryear. While digital indeed can sound artificially bright, I suspect in many cases it simply exposed flaws in the system/room (room reflections!) that were not exposed by the more 'forgiving' vinyl.

  26. #26
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    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    I'm not referring to the room, the source or anything else but the amps. Voicing, I feel, with some manufacturers is becoming too much on the lean/bright side. I feel they are driving this change for fear of being called "rolled off" by a reviewer.

    I'm not going to name names. If someone is curious, you can PM me or Joe. But we both feel there is a fundamental shift with SOME manufacturers towards a more "forward" presentation and we are not fans, others may love it. My friend Jerry says "give me bite! lots of bite!" Not me. Not Joe.
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  27. #27
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    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Dan,

    I would love to get your honest opinion of the new MC1.25 amps. Hopefully someday you will be able the get a good audition of them in a familiar system. I have no problem with progress, advancement and improvements. Those amps in particular, not having heard the MC611, have lost some of what I feel endears music lovers to the brand.
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  28. #28

    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I'm not referring to the room, the source or anything else but the amps.
    I understood that, but in a system it is all about context. A system/room that has some inherent flaws towards the higher frequencies may benefit from an amp that 'tones down' things a bit, while a more linear amp may expose the flaws ruthlessly. That amp may then be perceived to be on the 'bright' side, when really, it is not. This does not take away the fact that there truly are too bright sounding amps.

    Of course, compensating one coloration with another only leads to loss of resolution down the road. Better to have everything behave more neutrally throughout the chain for maximal retrieval of musical information.

  29. #29

    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Quote Originally Posted by joeinid View Post
    Dan,

    I would love to get your honest opinion of the new MC1.25 amps. Hopefully someday you will be able the get a good audition of them in a familiar system. I have no problem with progress, advancement and improvements. Those amps in particular, not having heard the MC611, have lost some of what I feel endears music lovers to the brand.
    I think we can throw one brand's name into the ring.
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  30. #30
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    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Took you long enough I think several were mentioned already.

    I’ll add another and you will certainly disagree but I couldn’t stand the ARC Ref 6. I will say the ARC GSPre is wonderful and I would take that in a heartbeat over the Ref 6.

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    I think we can throw one brand's name into the ring.
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  31. #31
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    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Quote Originally Posted by Al M. View Post
    I understood that, but in a system it is all about context. A system/room that has some inherent flaws towards the higher frequencies may benefit from an amp that 'tones down' things a bit, while a more linear amp may expose the flaws ruthlessly. That amp may then be perceived to be on the 'bright' side, when really, it is not. This does not take away the fact that there truly are too bright sounding amps.

    Of course, compensating one coloration with another only leads to loss of resolution down the road. Better to have everything behave more neutrally throughout the chain for maximal retrieval of musical information.
    In a perfectly treated room, you put v1 of AMP X into the system and it sounds superb. You remove it, put in v2 of AMP X and you get bright, thin, etc.

    That to me, is the wrong direction for voicing.

    I think MEP is right, we are in some sort of weird brightness war making them even more unforgiving with bad recordings and even worse when put into systems with bad rooms, bad power and more.
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  32. #32
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    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Wonder if its bright amps, or just the continuation of bright speakers with unobtanium metal tweeters and such.
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  33. #33
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    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithR View Post
    Wonder if its bright amps, or just the continuation of bright speakers with unobtanium metal tweeters and such.
    Definitely bright amps. Again, it's about voicing changes and going from V1 to V2 and holy cow! BITE. THIN. Why? Who the hell is wanting that?

    Jerry I guess....
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  34. #34
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    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Joe- were the Ayre Twenty series amps bright to your ears? how do they compare with your current Dags in the treble.
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  35. #35
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    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Quote Originally Posted by joeinid View Post
    Dan,

    I would love to get your honest opinion of the new MC1.25 amps. Hopefully someday you will be able the get a good audition of them in a familiar system. I have no problem with progress, advancement and improvements. Those amps in particular, not having heard the MC611, have lost some of what I feel endears music lovers to the brand.

    Joe.......
    I remember reading a previous comment by you where you expressed a less than enthusiastic response to the sound of the newest McIntosh MC1.25KW amplifiers. I was surprised to see that comment and thought perhaps the amplifiers did not have enough hours on them to settle into a permanent voice. Then again it could be that design changes in the amplifier circuits may have tilted the sound in a direction that simply did not please you. If and when I have the opportunity to audition the newest 1.25KW amplifiers, you can be certain I will post my impressions.
    Dan

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  36. #36

    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Quote Originally Posted by joeinid View Post
    Took you long enough I think several were mentioned already.

    I’ll add another and you will certainly disagree but I couldn’t stand the ARC Ref 6. I will say the ARC GSPre is wonderful and I would take that in a heartbeat over the Ref 6.
    You are the only person that I have ever heard describe the ARC Ref 6 as being bright. What else was in your system when you had the Ref 6?
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  37. #37
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    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Keith,

    The Ayre MXR20 (and KXR20 - still wish I had that one), have so much in common with the D’Agostino amps. The Ayre amps might be the tiniest bit smoother on top, but the D’Agostino amps have a little thicker tone and a little more meat on the bone. I could live with either, but ultimately I prefer my D’Agostino amps. NONE of the Ayre gear was ever bright, harsh or aggressive. Ayre is simply wonderful. They were the most perfect in that department. All this is in the context of solid state. CJ is my perfect tube solution. And it’s mostly true that Ayre is the best of tubes and solid state like Charlie used to say. Thicken up the Ayre and it’s a world beater, but they don’t like difficult speaker loads. The D’Agostinos handle difficult speakers easily.


    Quote Originally Posted by KeithR View Post
    Joe- were the Ayre Twenty series amps bright to your ears? how do they compare with your current Dags in the treble.
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  38. #38

    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Definitely bright amps. Again, it's about voicing changes and going from V1 to V2 and holy cow! BITE. THIN. Why? Who the hell is wanting that?

    Jerry I guess....
    Joe said the Ref 6 preamp is bright and he couldn't stand it.
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  39. #39

    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I'm not referring to the room, the source or anything else but the amps. Voicing, I feel, with some manufacturers is becoming too much on the lean/bright side. I feel they are driving this change for fear of being called "rolled off" by a reviewer.

    I'm not going to name names. If someone is curious, you can PM me or Joe. But we both feel there is a fundamental shift with SOME manufacturers towards a more "forward" presentation and we are not fans, others may love it. My friend Jerry says "give me bite! lots of bite!" Not me. Not Joe.
    Unless you have some inside information from a company that told you they are voicing their amps around an old, half deaf reviewer so he would like them, I'm not buying the reviewer theory. What company in their right mind would make everyone suffer with a bright product only to make a reviewer happy? It doesn't make sense to me.
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  40. #40
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    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    I may have been the first to voice that opinion, but I can name 4 or 5 friends here (but I won’t) who’ve come around and agreed that the treble on the Ref 6 is a little aggressive. Especially compared to the Ref 10 and GSPre to name two.

    I don’t remember the full system context but we’ve heard it and it’s not my cup of tea. This is my opinion, and of several friends that I know. I’m not claiming that I have the best hearing, but if something is aggressive or forward, it drives me nuts. My TAD CR-1 drove me nuts, I’m sorry to say and the Musical Fidelity Nuvista 800 was another piece that I could not live with either.


    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    You are the only person that I have ever heard describe the ARC Ref 6 as being bright. What else was in your system when you had the Ref 6?
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  41. #41
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    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Mike says Jerry likes bite and forward sound. I know a few others.

    I don’t want to be assaulted listening to music.

    I’d say the Ref 6 is more aggressive than bright.


    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    Joe said the Ref 6 preamp is bright and he couldn't stand it.
    Last edited by joeinid; March 20, 2018 at 03:02 PM.
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  42. #42

    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Quote Originally Posted by joeinid View Post
    I may have been the first to voice that opinion, but I can name 4 or 5 friends here (but I won’t) who’ve come around and agreed that the treble on the Ref 6 is a little aggressive. Especially compared to the Ref 10 and GSPre to name two.

    I don’t remember the full system context but we’ve heard it and it’s not my cup of tea. This is my opinion, and of several friends that I know. I’m not claiming that I have the best hearing, but if something is aggressive or forward, it drives me nuts. My TAD CR-1 drove me nuts, I’m sorry to say and the Musical Fidelity Nuvista 800 was another piece that I could not live with either.
    Joe-Didn't you rave about the TAD CR-1s up to the point where you sold them? Weren't your latest pair of McIntosh amps you kept for 34 days "destination amps" and you said good things about them until they headed down the road to their new owner? So now we have you and four or five of your friends who think the Ref 6 was bright. Were these people who own the Ref 6 or people who stopped by your place and heard it in your system?
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  43. #43
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    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    They had the Ref 6 in their own system and ultimately came to the same conclusion. I never prompted them in any way.

    Under certain conditions, the previous gear had some great qualities. Sure I was a little over the top and that was certainly my fault but at the time those posts were written, that’s how I felt. I guess I get excited and and wanted to post about it. It won’t happen again. I’ll be more reserved until the dust settles. Can you forgive me? It’s just my opinion of snapshots in time. I’m not a professional like you. I should know better.
    Last edited by joeinid; March 20, 2018 at 04:36 PM.
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  44. #44
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    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    Unless you have some inside information from a company that told you they are voicing their amps around an old, half deaf reviewer so he would like them, I'm not buying the reviewer theory. What company in their right mind would make everyone suffer with a bright product only to make a reviewer happy? It doesn't make sense to me.
    Maybe. So what's driving this change?
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  45. #45
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    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Quote Originally Posted by joeinid View Post
    Keith,

    The Ayre MXR20 (and KXR20 - still wish I had that one), have so much in common with the D’Agostino amps. The Ayre amps might be the tiniest bit smoother on top, but the D’Agostino amps have a little thicker tone and a little more meat on the bone.
    I ask as when I had the Vx-5 in for home demo, I found the treble remarkable - extended with no hint of fatigue. The Dart has a similar treble signature so it may be related to the lack of NFB.
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  46. #46
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    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    If you liked the VX-5, you would LOVE the VXR-20 or MXR-20. Soooo much more goodness.

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithR View Post
    I ask as when I had the Vx-5 in for home demo, I found the treble remarkable - extended with no hint of fatigue. The Dart has a similar treble signature so it may be related to the lack of NFB.
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  47. #47
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    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Might these new amp tonalities, be because that speaker technology - especially in the tweeters (highs) has improved over the last 20 years.

    Where an amp manufacturer was listening to his amp into a sota speaker 20 years ago, he thought it sounded too bright and harsh, but now when he listens to his amp with today's sota speaker that has less harsh tweeters so he adds a little bit to his amps so he is hearing the same end result?
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  48. #48
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    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Hi Dan,

    What prompted me was this comment ....

    https://www.audioaficionado.org/show...9&postcount=46

    "I did have an opportunity to listen to a pair of MC1.25KW’s w/ Stradivari’s. They are clearly voiced differently, and it isn’t due to the use of Thermal Trak Output Transistors.

    My MC2KW’s have Thermal Trak Output Transistors, and still sound pleasing with the McIntosh “house sound”.

    IMHO, there were other changes made that resulted in the 1.25K’s sounding on the bright, almost shrill side. My friend, who’s system I heard these with decided these Amps were not for him, and ultimately sold them. He now has MC2301’s and couldn’t be more pleased. "


    Quote Originally Posted by jdandy View Post

    Joe.......
    I remember reading a previous comment by you where you expressed a less than enthusiastic response to the sound of the newest McIntosh MC1.25KW amplifiers. I was surprised to see that comment and thought perhaps the amplifiers did not have enough hours on them to settle into a permanent voice. Then again it could be that design changes in the amplifier circuits may have tilted the sound in a direction that simply did not please you. If and when I have the opportunity to audition the newest 1.25KW amplifiers, you can be certain I will post my impressions.
    Last edited by joeinid; March 20, 2018 at 04:51 PM.
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  49. #49
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    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Quote Originally Posted by the professor View Post
    Might these new amp tonalities, be because that speaker technology - especially in the tweeters (highs) has improved over the last 20 years.

    Where an amp manufacturer was listening to his amp into a sota speaker 20 years ago, he thought it sounded too bright and harsh, but now when he listens to his amp with today's sota speaker that has less harsh tweeters so he adds a little bit to his amps so he is hearing the same end result?
    Yes, that's what I was referring to earlier with Toole's Circle of Confusion.
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  50. #50

    Re: What's with the trend in amp design?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Maybe. So what's driving this change?
    Beats me Mike. I don’t have enough information to hazard a guess. Is the amp being used with a preamp from the same company? What speakers were used? What sources were used? How did you determine this a new trend and it only affects amplifiers?
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What's with the trend in amp design?

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