What’s the big deal with class ‘D’ anyhow ? - Page 14
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  1. #131
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    Re: What’s the big deal with class ‘D’ anyhow ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingrex View Post
    What would be accurate to say is for there to be a blind test one must truly evaluate what you are trying to test and whether the parameters of the test are designed to seek a result that validates what you were attempting to test for. That's a little muddy in statement but I think you get what I mean.
    I took what you said originally as wanting to remove as many variables as possible - so we are not in disagreement.
    But then might also be a tacit admission that any differences being sought are elusive and perhaps very subtle indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingrex View Post
    As I have asked a couple times, a thorough briefing of how you perform a blind test is necessary to understand whether your comment of a a/b blind test is valid or not. You seem to not want to share that information.
    Because my intent wasn't to embarrass a whole lot of folks. It was to answer a specific question, which is can a large number of audiophiles who might claim differently, actually hear the differences they claim, when they don't know they are listening to a modern, highly competently filtered and designed Class D amp. Maybe seeing (and sometimes hearing) a Class A amp instead.
    From purely a sound point of view, that gives me confidence to use them in my products. I am not saying knowledge of them in my products can't/won't cause melodrama. But I am confident it won't be because of sound.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingrex View Post
    If you can share with us the testing parameters that helps everyone to feel comfortable that the results are actually validating a specific claim then we would all be pleased to see the test
    As I've said many times, I don't listen blind for enjoyment, away or at home. As such, I enjoy looks, feel, etc, etc, etc like everybody else except those who would rather lie to themselves. So have no issue admitting I've bought amps and whatnot just because they look great...to me.
    If you are looking to answer a very specific question like specific sound of class A vs D, a blind test is dictated by science. If you're looking to find whether you like the widget, sight, sound, feel, etc, etc, etc. kicking back listening in the easy chair at home, then no blind test is needed at all. Ever.
    The end.

    cheers,

    AJ

  2. #132
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    Re: What’s the big deal with class ‘D’ anyhow ?

    I assume you're not in Miami. I was just there two weeks ago at the Audio Salon, Deja Vu, and I'm sorry I spaced out the name of the other place but Felipe was very kindly showed me the boulder amplifiers. What part of Florida is your store in. I'm going to be there again in November and always like to hear nice systems?

  3. #133
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    Re: What’s the big deal with class ‘D’ anyhow ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingrex View Post
    I assume you're not in Miami. I was just there two weeks ago at the Audio Salon, Deja Vu, and I'm sorry I spaced out the name of the other place but Felipe was very kindly showed me the boulder amplifiers. What part of Florida is your store in. I'm going to be there again in November and always like to hear nice systems?
    Nope, Tampa, just like it says under that picture of George Clooney.
    No storefront, yet. Working on something for early next year though.
    But that brings us full circle. Unlike an amp, cables, source, etc, loudspeakers, being the only soundwave generators, are absolutely critical to hear....yup, in your room.
    Working on that too. Unfortunately a company in the Netherlands has delayed for well over a year now, me completing some "touring" pairs for exactly that purpose. We can talk about class D, total controlled polar response, cardioid bass, indirect diffuse decorrelated radiation, all remotely controlled, etc, etc....but its another thing entirely to hear it all from your own easy chair. I hope we can agree on that.

    cheers,

    AJ

  4. #134
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    Re: What’s the big deal with class ‘D’ anyhow ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingrex View Post
    If you can share with us the testing parameters that helps everyone to feel comfortable that the results are actually validating a specific claim then we would all be pleased to see the test
    What testing parameters do you believe provide valid results?

  5. #135
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    Re: What’s the big deal with class ‘D’ anyhow ?

    All of this aside.... to me, sometimes it comes down purley to the feeling you get from certain pieces of your gear. Take for example my PS Audio M700's. I have no rhyme or reason to it, and they sound amazing, but they just don't give me that warm and cuddly feeling. My pre-amp does, my DAC definitely does, my speakers very much do.... and I know that unless I get something massively more expensive the chances of getting improved sound is minimal, at best.

    I do still long for tubes.... no idea why... but also miss the First Watt. But sound quality, I would say the M700's may very well be as good as any I have owned...

    Amps I enjoyed the most through my discoveries are:

    * the ARC VT-50. Love the build of this amp, but was a bit mushy sounding compared to more modern amps.... decided it would not be my long term solution....
    * the Job 225 (twice).... just did not feel it was my long term solution, but really love that little amp...
    * Quicksilver Silver 88's... really like the design and sound, but they were far too finicky in my system (may have been something just not "right" with the amps themself)

    I was seriously thinking of getting some new Quicksilver's, but really think I want to stick with Balanced since recently upping my game on balanced cables. Wish I could get my hands on the Job Mono's.... still can't believe that Goldmund stopped making them ....

    So anyway, Class D, what I am using as an excellent example, really hold their own in sound quality. I can honestly say that I know I couldn't have picked any of the others as better sounding without some serious serious side by side back and forth, and then the M700''s may very well have won.

    But, they just don't give me warm and fuzzies.... and I don't know why. Design wise, seem very well made.... solid built, love the bi-wiring capability, which I use...

    For me the M700's have far too much power.... To a point that I have to set HQPlayer at -20db output so that I have more control at lower levels from my pre-amp. I could set the DAC to use it's volume control instead of bi-passing it with the line switch... Not sure which way would be better actually, setting lower output on HQPlayer or using the DAC volume to turn it down a little (opinions on this one are very much welcomed).
    GEAR Audio Research LS17 SE | T+A DAC 8 DSD, AMP 8 | Wyred 4 Sound Recovery | KEF R700, R400b, M500
    Oppo BDP-105 | Technics ST-9030 w / ​Magnum Dynalab ST-2 | MrSpeakers Ether | Ayres Pono | Furman Elite 15i
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  7. #136
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    Re: What’s the big deal with class ‘D’ anyhow ?

    I would definitely lower the output of your day unless it is digital volume. If so sure shave a bit off, say 3db but I wouldn't go lower .
    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    All of this aside.... to me, sometimes it comes down purley to the feeling you get from certain pieces of your gear. Take for example my PS Audio M700's. I have no rhyme or reason to it, and they sound amazing, but they just don't give me that warm and cuddly feeling. My pre-amp does, my DAC definitely does, my speakers very much do.... and I know that unless I get something massively more expensive the chances of getting improved sound is minimal, at best.

    I do still long for tubes.... no idea why... but also miss the First Watt. But sound quality, I would say the M700's may very well be as good as any I have owned...

    Amps I enjoyed the most through my discoveries are:

    * the ARC VT-50. Love the build of this amp, but was a bit mushy sounding compared to more modern amps.... decided it would not be my long term solution....
    * the Job 225 (twice).... just did not feel it was my long term solution, but really love that little amp...
    * Quicksilver Silver 88's... really like the design and sound, but they were far too finicky in my system (may have been something just not "right" with the amps themself)

    I was seriously thinking of getting some new Quicksilver's, but really think I want to stick with Balanced since recently upping my game on balanced cables. Wish I could get my hands on the Job Mono's.... still can't believe that Goldmund stopped making them ....

    So anyway, Class D, what I am using as an excellent example, really hold their own in sound quality. I can honestly say that I know I couldn't have picked any of the others as better sounding without some serious serious side by side back and forth, and then the M700''s may very well have won.

    But, they just don't give me warm and fuzzies.... and I don't know why. Design wise, seem very well made.... solid built, love the bi-wiring capability, which I use...

    For me the M700's have far too much power.... To a point that I have to set HQPlayer at -20db output so that I have more control at lower levels from my pre-amp. I could set the DAC to use it's volume control instead of bi-passing it with the line switch... Not sure which way would be better actually, setting lower output on HQPlayer or using the DAC volume to turn it down a little (opinions on this one are very much welcomed).
    Sent from my SM-T113 using Tapatalk

  8. #137
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    Re: What’s the big deal with class ‘D’ anyhow ?

    Dac , Dac bloody auto correct
    Quote Originally Posted by deangale123 View Post
    I would definitely lower the output of your day unless it is digital volume. If so sure shave a bit off, say 3db but I wouldn't go lower .

    Sent from my SM-T113 using Tapatalk
    Sent from my SM-T113 using Tapatalk

  9. #138
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    Re: What’s the big deal with class ‘D’ anyhow ?

    Hehe, love auto correct .... I believe the T+A has a resistor ladder analog volume section.
    GEAR Audio Research LS17 SE | T+A DAC 8 DSD, AMP 8 | Wyred 4 Sound Recovery | KEF R700, R400b, M500
    Oppo BDP-105 | Technics ST-9030 w / ​Magnum Dynalab ST-2 | MrSpeakers Ether | Ayres Pono | Furman Elite 15i
    Cables/Isolators Gingko | Pangea | Richard Gray | Kimber Kable | Wireworld | Audioquest | Wyred 4 Sound | PS Audio

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  11. #139
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    Re: What’s the big deal with class ‘D’ anyhow ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    Hehe, love auto correct .... I believe the T+A has a resistor ladder analog volume section.
    Then I reckon your better off reducing it to the desired level e.g. the source.

    Sent from my SM-T113 using Tapatalk

  12. #140
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    Re: What’s the big deal with class ‘D’ anyhow ?

    Randy

    With the ARC having 18db gain in balanced mode combined with the M700's input sensitivity of 1 volt (only slightly higher than the Job) you indeed have an imbalance. The two ways to "fix" are to lower the output level of the DAC or use the Rothwell's again. I guess a third option would be to reduce output level in Roon.
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon Dl-301 Mk II, Vista Audio Phono 2, Marantz HD-CD1, Lumin D1 w/Sbooster, PS Audio DirectStream DAC w/Bridge II, BHK Preamp with BHK 250 amp/Rogue ST-100, Nola KO's, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Cables- Triode Wire Labs, Equi=Core 1800, PI Audio Uberbuss, Timbernation rack

    Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Auralic Aries, W4S Recovery with iPower, Nuprime DAC-10, Nuprime ST-10, Spatial Audio Triode Master, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Audio Sensibility SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810

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