Schiit Yggdrasil DAC Arrived

[AJ Soundfield]

Hmmm. I'd be upset if companies didn't learn and evolve their products to sound better.

That is of course anecdotal subjective opinion/preference in this case, not fact. But that isn't my concern, but rather the way it was carried out, clearly expressed in my previous post. It seems very much like this was kept "secret", hence the CA Conman guy having to let the cat out of bag so to speak. I'm certainly more hesitant now about being an early purchaser, knowing that at any time there can be an upgraded model that only early adopters will have to pay extra for. But that's just me.

If MQA takes off, things should get more stagnant as we'll need Bob Stuart to evolve digital.

That "evolutionary" path will still run through Bobs bank account, present or future.

[jdandy]

Yep. Plenty old guys grew up watching too much Batman I guess.
Sound like Dan found himself a winner, though I am a bit concerned by this whole upgraded output stage thing. Was it some big secret? Why was the original not designed this way?

AJ.......The original Yggdrasil DAC has been around a few years. The modular design of the Yggdrasil allows them to develop advances in circuit design and performance into an existing product. In my mind this is value for customers that own an older Yggdrasil. A great many manufacturers continue product development but rather than make the advances available as an upgrade simply introduce the next model. If one wants the latest upgraded performance the old component has to be replaced. That is a far more expensive upgrade path. Schiit Audio's modular upgrade path allows owners to remain current at a much more reasonable expense. The Yggdrasil has had two USB input module upgrades, now at Gen 5, and now the Analog 2 upgrade of the modular analog output boards. The Analog 2 upgrade will cost $550.00. That is considerably less expensive than purchasing a new Yggdrasil with the Analog 2 upgrade at $2399.00. I like the modular aspect to future improvements. The ability to remain current with an existing component for a reasonable fee makes sense to me.

[AJ Soundfield]

I like the modular aspect to future improvements. The ability to remain current with an existing component for a reasonable fee makes sense to me.

Fair enough, I was just unaware that they made this aspect of their products very clear to potential purchasers. It certainly wouldn't stop me from purchasing, though obviously now I will check that aspect before proceeding!

[GSOphile]

AJ.......The original Yggdrasil DAC has been around a few years. The modular design of the Yggdrasil allows them to develop advances in circuit design and performance nto an existing product. In my mind this is value for customers that own an older Yggdrasil. A great many manufacturers continue product development but rather than make the advances available as an upgrade simply introduce the next model. If one wants the latest upgraded performance the old component has to be replaced. That is a far more expensive upgrade path. Schiit Audio's modular upgrade path allows owners to remain current at a a much more reasonable expense. The Yggdrasil has had two USB input module upgrades, now at Gen 5, and now the Analog 2 upgrade of the modular analog output boards. The Analog 2 upgrade will cost $550.00. That is considerable less expensive than purchasing a new Yggdrasil with the Analog 2 upgrade at $2399.00. I like the modular aspect to future improvements. The ability to remain current with an existing component for a reasonable fee makes sense to me.

I really like this modular design/upgrade approach as opposed to the replacement strategy practiced by most of their competitors. Schitt's strategy is very consistent with their high value orientation and appears to be well executed.

[Dr Tone]

@jdandy any idea where the weight comes from? 24lbs is allot for a DAC. I assume the case for starters, does the weight balance shift a bit because of heavy power supplies maybe?

[wisnon]

Multibit delta sigma is still PCM, not DSD. This has been explained in discussions on Computer Audiophile by Michael Ritter from Berkeley, and other experts agree. One-bit delta sigma is DSD. So no, most PCM is still mastered as PCM.

Yes, realism IS magic if you look at it that way.

No, Only the ladder approach of the PM2 is pure PCM. Delta sigma is bitstream tech with is closer to DSD/PWM...not pulse CODE modulation. For every one source you have I can find 10 to counter

Also, only micro slivers of conversion is needed in DSD mastering to change levels.

All of this is immaterial, as only the final SQ matters and how we feel about it. Not interested in techie internet debates of theory that have no bearing to absolute SQ. I see too much pontification online that conflict with actual experience and experimentation.

Please note, this is not an attack on you. You are fine in my book. Its OK to disagree and remain pals.

[CPP]

Yep. Plenty old guys grew up watching too much Batman I guess.
Sound like Dan found himself a winner, though I am a bit concerned by this whole upgraded output stage thing. Was it some big secret? Why was the original not designed this way?

That can be said about any item to include audio equipment, "why was the original not designed this way". Might as well ask, why do things change or evolve, Be it DACS, speakers, TV's, Cars, computers to medicine. I'm just glad things are evolving as it would be stale without a change

[AJ Soundfield]

Not interested in techie internet debates of theory that have no bearing to absolute SQ. I see too much pontification online that conflict with actual experience and experimentation.

You used to be a fun guy Norman, what happened?
Me, I love reading about old guys with GHz "hearing" and 14 bit speakers used for >16 bit production of 12 bit recordings.

[AJ Soundfield]

That can be said about any item to include audio equipment, "why was the original not designed this way". Might as well ask, why do things change or evolve, Be it DACS, speakers, TV's, Cars, computers to medicine. I'm just glad things are evolving as it would be stale without a change

Well, we could speculate all day...or go to the horses mouth:

Now in Analog 2 form (shipping since late 2017), we’ve combined the output of four of these DACs with DC-coupled, low-noise, Class A JFET buffers and summers with high current output capability to drive long cable runs and low-impedance line inputs, such as 600 ohm professional gear.

In engineering speak, it means they upgraded the output to be compatible with a wider variety of system architectures, in audiophile speak, it was an automatic aural "upgrade".
IOW, it could end up sounding better in some systems...or not at all. Unless I missed it, Schiit themselves are not making such claims?
Regardless, I consider what they did as good practice, given the above.

[CPP]

Well, we could speculate all day...or go to the horses mouth:

In engineering speak, it means they upgraded the output to be compatible with a wider variety of system architectures, in audiophile speak, it was an automatic aural "upgrade".
IOW, it could end up sounding better in some systems...or not at all. Unless I missed it, Schiit themselves are not making such claims?
Regardless, I consider what they did as good practice, given the above.

AJ a question, do you ever upgrade your speaker components ?

[AJ Soundfield]

AJ a question, do you ever upgrade your speaker components ?

In existing designs, no.
An exception would be if the component became obsolete, but that would be by necessity. That's all a red herring of course (although a definite trend in threads around here).
Schiit is upgrading their output section for a specific and I would say, worthwhile purpose, as they plainly stated.

[Dr Tone]

Well, we could speculate all day...or go to the horses mouth:

In engineering speak, it means they upgraded the output to be compatible with a wider variety of system architectures, in audiophile speak, it was an automatic aural "upgrade".
IOW, it could end up sounding better in some systems...or not at all. Unless I missed it, Schiit themselves are not making such claims?
Regardless, I consider what they did as good practice, given the above.

These are their words:

Yggdrasil Analog 2 includes many refinements, including all-new Class A, DC-coupled discrete FET buffer stages and completely different internal board structure. The result is increased line driving capability, slightly lower noise and distortion, and…most importantly…significantly better sound!*


*Yeah, that’s subjective. Yeah, we’re biased. So sue us.

[AJ Soundfield]

These are their words:

Yggdrasil Analog 2 includes many refinements, including all-new Class A, DC-coupled discrete FET buffer stages and completely different internal board structure. The result is increased line driving capability, slightly lower noise and distortion, and…most importantly…significantly better sound!*


*Yeah, that’s subjective. Yeah, we’re biased. So sue us.

Didn't see that on the website. Link?

[kzhtoo]

Didn't see that on the website. Link?

It was posted in this thread, post #80. Many people quoted again too.

[jdandy]

@jdandy any idea where the weight comes from? 24lbs is allot for a DAC. I assume the case for starters, does the weight balance shift a bit because of heavy power supplies maybe?

Jeff.......Weight adds up quick when you consider there are three iron core transformers on the large double sided motherboard. The entire DAC is a modular design. There are separate plug in circuit boards for DSP, SPDIF, USB, and analog output stages. Added to that is a sophisticated power supply. All circuit boards are separated and stacked on screw type stand offs. There is a steel chassis covered with the curved and contoured aluminum cover and face plate. There is a lot going on under the hood of the Yggdrasil that culminates in 24lbs of finished DAC goodness. It's not a DragonFly, that's for sure.

[Devg]

I believe bulk of the weight comes from the atypical aluminum chassis enclosure they are using - the entire motherboard is housed on a thick aluminum bottom plate which then goes inside the chassis aluminum enclosure. Its a puzzle to open it.

[Sean]

Hope you're loving your Schiit, Dan.

[wisnon]

You used to be a fun guy Norman, what happened?
Me, I love reading about old guys with GHz "hearing" and 14 bit speakers used for >16 bit production of 12 bit recordings.

Too many avenues of SQ improvement to pursue. No time for dogma...call me Nick...Nick Copernicus. LoL