Apple’s admission leads to distrust

[Mike]

http://www.businessinsider.com/apple...buffer-science


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[sharkmouth]

Man, I just said exactly the same to my brother on a call this morning. Both got the same phones & his is terrible!!!

[joeinid]

That’s terrible. I don’t have an older iPhone but it makes me angry. I have a few older McIntosh desktop computers that “Apple” will not let me install the new OS X on. I’m forced to be several generations back with no path for updates, even. The hardware is still perfectly good but they force you to abandon it. I know some have tricked the newer OS’ to think the hardware is current but then an update could kill it. Damn!

[asindc]

That’s terrible. I don’t have an older iPhone but it makes me angry. I have a few older McIntosh desktop computers that “Apple” will not let me install the new OS X on. I’m forced to be several generations back with no path for updates, even. The hardware is still perfectly good but they force you to abandon it. I know some have tricked the newer OS’ to think the hardware is current but then an update could kill it. Damn!

Microsoft also does that with older PCs.

[Shadowfax]

Isn't that criminal activity for defrauding customers?

I have no issues with my 12 y/o Motorola Razer Flip Phone

[UltraFast69]

I was one that always suspected that and with their other components as well; routers specifically.

They need to find a way to make things right to successfully move forward, like upgrade everyone at their cost on a one time, specific time period and offset that with something cool.


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[Mr Peabody]

At least now I have one less reason to think I'm crazy, I thought my iPhone was slower, I have a 6 something. If it was really to stop the phones from shutting down why not be upfront about it, or, give users the option. I am not one to want the latest greatest phone, just keep mine working.

I probably would stil have a flip phone just to make calls, however, a few years ago my carrier pulled out of our market and I got sucked in to a smart phone when switching carriers, I think it was free, as if, anything really. The remaining carriers were really fighting for the new floundering customers though. Although I only use a very smll percentage of the phone's features, now that I have it, it'ts sort of like when you first got a remote. Sure, I could probably live without It but, do I want to

[BlueFox]

The issue for me is I have no idea what slowing down an older phone means. Do they mean that, for example, if the processor is clocked at 100Mhz then they slow it to 90Mhz to preserve battery life. Or is it something else. If the battery does degrade over time as mentioned then that seems reasonable to me. I guess before I get too upset I need to know the details. Ideally, they need to make slowing the phone an option in Settings. Then the user can choose to extend battery life, or not.

[jdandy]

Is there anyone who believes this is the only secret Apple is hiding from its customers?

[joeinid]

From what I am hearing, spin or not, they are using power saving techniques on units with older batteries that quickly drop below 30% power remaining. Apps and power hungry services are being throttled to keep the phones running longer. If you replace the battery, speeds are said to go back to normal.

Every company has secrets

[Arnoldhasmail]

Wow, as I read through this post I had so much to say!

First, I was a PC guy for many many years...I was one of those people building PC's in the 80's...and 90's...and 2000's. I switched to apple for two reasons...first I was working away from home for a few years and the original iPhone was the first to offer a real browser and a similar experience to a PC when I was not he road...the second thing that stopped me building computers and buying Macs was my audio system. I had carefully built a small server to stream music to my system...after spending a fortune and picking each component, a friend brought over a base Mac mini that costs $600 and sounding much better. My main rig is still a dual boot win10/hackintosh macOS 10.13...but whatever issues I have with Apple...they make great computers with great software that poses far fewer problems for the user...If you can afford it...and care to...I believe its a better solution than anything else...And...this coming from a hardcore computer guy who always swore I'd never go this route.

But...
I do think they should have explained what they're doing. It does cause distrust. But, I don't think they did it to force people to upgrade...

When you can't load new software on your old hardware...there are reasons. Software has basic requirements in order to work properly...over time(and this has always been the situation with computers and used to be much worse), hardware specs change and many machines can't support new functionality. Think...bluetooth 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 or PCIE 1.0, 2.0 or USB 1.0, 2.0, 3.0...these changes need to happen for computers to progress and for the functionality that we all use and appreciate every day. A five year old computer usually has 2 gigs of ram...that's a joke. you can't even run a modern operating system properly on a machine like that. Often the limitations imposed are for your own good. If you have a computer for 7, 8 or 9 years old...you can't be upset you can't access modern software and features...move on. For decades I had to build a new machine every year to have modern functionality...it's not like that anymore and getting much better all the time.

And Shadowfax...a motorola flip phone...thanks for the levity)) but, we're talking about incredibly powerful pocket computers...not phones. but, if you tested it...you get a fraction of the original talk time you did when it was new...

And Ultrafast69...I've never noticed a router or any computer that plugs in slow down. If I did, I've found slow downs are due to software getting corrupt or bogging due to poorly executed uninstalls. Most computers benefit from a fresh operating install every few years. Even today...endless updates isn't the way to go. Internet providers can probably be blamed more often for internet speeds...but your router does have a processor in it...it does throttle down when not being used. I recently cleaned the vents on the bottom of my apple router and found it clogged with dust, and it was running hot, so I'm sure it was throttling. Also, hard drives and partitions can get messed up and slow things down.

As far as iPhone or iPad speed...and I don't know anything you don't...
Usually a modern processor throttles down all the time when it's not working hard. If you go purchase a new intel 4000mhz processor...it doesn't run 4000mhz all the time. It will very often at idle or while your doing basic functions, run at 600, 1200, 1800 MHz...whatever is needed to complete the task quickly...what does quickly mean? Who knows? whatever intel deems necessary. When you decide to RIP music or video that same processor may run at 4200 or 4400 or even 4600mhz! speed you didn't even really pay for. The max is based on a number of factors but the most predominent are heat, temp, needs, motherboard, firmware, software, # of cores running...on and on...that same processor may also run one core...or six cores...mostly based on how the software was written. On PC's that are plugged in, this came about for energy efficiency, almost exclusively.
Your phone is the same way, I don't think they ever run full speed, they would get very hot and kill the battery in hours. As batteries wear out...and they do...phone life decreases dramatically. Batteries can lose 10% per year of their capacity...especially things like phones that we rarely charge in a manor best for the battery...my phone gets plugged in when it needs to or when it's convenient for me. So, I think there logic is, when your phone reports it's battery state is degrading to apple (and it does) instead of a max of 1000mhz, and four hours of battery life...they give us 80% processor and six hours of battery. I'm not saying that's there formula, but the logic. The answer, replace your battery every two or three years...if it bothers you. I just upgrade my phone every couple of years and never notice a thing.

The point I was trying to make...this is not to get people to upgrade...it's about user experience and energy efficiency. This is a common practice in the industry...across all companies and all devices. It all comes down to batteries and energy storage...and they aren't that good now. Much better then when we were kids...but still have a long way to go. Batteries and energy are the key to everything in our tech saturated world. But, We all want to be green...

[asiufy]

Isn't that criminal activity for defrauding customers?

I have no issues with my 12 y/o Motorola Razer Flip Phone

No, it's not defrauding, as Apple doesn't sell their phones based on processor speed.

Even in computers, when you buy a 2Ghz computer, that's the best case scenario. The computer will often throttle the speed down in order to conserve energy, and will only give you the full 2Ghz on specific situations, that call for it. I'm sure there's tons of legalese and disclaimers around that issue...

The fact that Apple had to publicly "admit" something that everybody does is kinda odd.

If you want to have a nice, big screen, LTE data, and a zippy processor, you're going to need big batteries. And unfortunately, batteries die the more you use them, so a year's worth is to be expected before it starts underperforming.

For people with older phones, it might be worth it just to replace the battery, for $79 (out of warranty cost).

[Elberoth]

Microsoft also does that with older PCs.

I'm not sure. I have Win 10 installed on some of the computers in the office that still have AMD Athlon 64 processors and DDR2 memory - basicly 8+ years old machines.

[Arnoldhasmail]

I don't think Microsoft does that...but chip makers have been throttling forever. Windows gets slow because of registries getting cluttered, poor memory management and people getting duped into installing dozens of malware programs, and endless programs always running in the background...

Manage your computer, keep things clean and they last a very long time nowadays...they won't be the fastest and won't have the functionality of newer machines...but they're fine...

[KeithR]

but, but net neutrality...lol

[Arnoldhasmail]

[Shadowfax]

This reminds me of what they recently did with Youtube. I bought 2 OPPOs and a Samsung Smart TV with streaming Youtube as one of the selling features. Now only a few years later I can no longer stream Youtube on these 3 devices. They could have left the legacy software in a functioning mode while making the changes for newer items, or they should have been designed with upgrade-ability in mind from the start.

[GSOphile]

From what I am hearing, spin or not, they are using power saving techniques on units with older batteries that quickly drop below 30% power remaining. Apps and power hungry services are being throttled to keep the phones running longer. If you replace the battery, speeds are said to go back to normal.

Every company has secrets

http://appleinsider.com/articles/17/...e-cpu-slowdown

[mhanc]

so let me think about this... i have an iPhone 6, so a 3-yr old battery having gone through many recharge cycles and processors that are also 3-yrs old which need to handle CPU hungry iOS updates and 3rd party apps that are continually updated.

basically, this news tells me that apple has taken steps to ensure my phone continues to function rather than becoming obsolete -- a somewhat slower speed that i had not really noticed in return for not having to buy a new phone.

i guess one can argue about the transparency if they want to... but apple taking steps to save me cash that i would much rather spend on audio gear sure seems like a win -- for me!

[asindc]

I'm not sure. I have Win 10 installed on some of the computers in the office that still have AMD Athlon 64 processors and DDR2 memory - basicly 8+ years old machines.

I’ve personally experienced it.

[Arnoldhasmail]

This reminds me of what they recently did with Youtube. I bought 2 OPPOs and a Samsung Smart TV with streaming Youtube as one of the selling features. Now only a few years later I can no longer stream Youtube on these 3 devices. They could have left the legacy software in a functioning mode while making the changes for newer items, or they should have been designed with upgrade-ability in mind from the start.

I understand...that would annoy me! Often the new hardware standards haven't been established so they can't. But even some kind of backward compatibility...think usb 1, 2, 3...would have been appreciated!

[Projectman]

The old hardware runs great with the old OS I have! Windows dropped support for older operating systems on. My ten year old iMac still kicks ass!

[Projectman]

At least now I have one less reason to think I'm crazy, I thought my iPhone was slower, I have a 6 something. If it was really to stop the phones from shutting down why not be upfront about it, or, give users the option. I am not one to want the latest greatest phone, just keep mine working.

I probably would stil have a flip phone just to make calls, however, a few years ago my carrier pulled out of our market and I got sucked in to a smart phone when switching carriers, I think it was free, as if, anything really. The remaining carriers were really fighting for the new floundering customers though. Although I only use a very smll percentage of the phone's features, now that I have it, it'ts sort of like when you first got a remote. Sure, I could probably live without It but, do I want to

Apple is clear about changing your battery after 18 months or 500 charges. How does your laptop run on battery after 500 charges?

[BlueFox]

My iPhone 7 battery rarely gets below 90%, and at home it is always plugged in. What constitutes a 'charge'.

[Arnoldhasmail]

The old hardware runs great with the old OS I have! Windows dropped support for older operating systems on. My ten year old iMac still kicks ass!

Well we're talking about apples and oranges...the iMac doesn’t run on batteries but I’m glad to hear it runs well...Apple makes a great product!

[Arnoldhasmail]

Apple is clear about changing your battery after 18 months or 500 charges. How does your laptop run on battery after 500 charges?

your laptop is running a much larger battery. If you charge it regularly and run it down before charging again...it will last longer...if you leave it plugged in all the time it will discharge quicker when you travel with it.

[Arnoldhasmail]

My iPhone 7 battery rarely gets below 90%, and at home it is always plugged in. What constitutes a 'charge'.

Leaving a phone or laptop battery plugged in all the time doesn't help. It actually wears them out. They need to work but shouldn’t be worn out to nothing...or left charged in well past full. Lithium ion batteries like to be used...

[Arnoldhasmail]

This is nothing to worry about. Charge and use your devices. When they get to 20% or less plug them in. When they’re charged...unplug them and enjoy. If the battery gets weak in two or three years...replace it or upgrade. This is the same with every device across every brand...it’s what batteries do. When I used to own old digital cameras that used rechargeable AA batteries, it was the same thing. Batteries wear out. The one in your watch, phone, or headphones are all the same. Don’t worry about it and replace them when necessary.

[Arnoldhasmail]

For me...my phone is the most used device in my life, (outside of my stereo), it’s worth my money to have a good phone, use it, enjoy it and replace it when necessary. It’s my email, text, internet and streaming music device whenever I’m not home. That’s a huge task for a little device! We're lucky...this never existed 10+ years ago. We had to carry two or three devices and they didn’t work as well.

[Phishphan]

There’s nothing in the 8 or X that makes me want to upgrade my 7. All the new tech doesn’t do much for what I use my phone for.


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[Mr Peabody]

I don't have alaptop, should I get one? Actually, I've never seen a laptop where the original battery lasted very long at all, for sure not close to 500 times. Which brand would you recommend?

How is Apple clear about changing the battery after 18 months, this is the first I've heard that. I suppose you'll say I should have read the manual

Apple is clear about changing your battery after 18 months or 500 charges. How does your laptop run on battery after 500 charges?

[Projectman]

Now why would you want to read the manual?