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  1. #1
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    Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    Here is an interesting test of Ethernet Cables by Cookie Marenco from Blue Coast Records-

    http://dsd-guide.com/can-ethernet-ca...t#.WilbHVWnHIV
    My Gear- Mains System-Pass X250 amp, BAT VK-51se preamp, Luxman DA-06 DAC, Magnepan 1.6's, Thorens TD-145 TT, Dual Martin Logan Subs, Vintage Luxman T-110 Tuner, Cables-WW Platinum 7 USB, Cardas Parsec XLR, AQ Columbia DBS 72v XLR, Belden 8402 XLR.

  2. #2

    Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    Thanks and, for me, very timely.

    Do you (or anyone else) have any idea as to what the $700 "red" cable was?

    Separately, has anyone heard or compared the following for use between a NAS/server (Melco) and DAC:

    - Sablon Audio LAN cable

    - Acoustic Revive LAN (LAN-1.0PA) cable

    - SOtM dCBL CAT7 LAN cable.

  3. #3
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    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoludio View Post
    Thanks and, for me, very timely.

    Do you (or anyone else) have any idea as to what the $700 "red" cable was?

    Separately, has anyone heard or compared the following for use between a NAS/server (Melco) and DAC:

    - Sablon Audio LAN cable

    - Acoustic Revive LAN (LAN-1.0PA) cable

    - SOtM dCBL CAT7 LAN cable.


    You can email Cookie Marenco at Blue Coast Records. She has personally responded when I emailed her. There is a email link at the bottom of the review page.

    Larry
    My Gear- Mains System-Pass X250 amp, BAT VK-51se preamp, Luxman DA-06 DAC, Magnepan 1.6's, Thorens TD-145 TT, Dual Martin Logan Subs, Vintage Luxman T-110 Tuner, Cables-WW Platinum 7 USB, Cardas Parsec XLR, AQ Columbia DBS 72v XLR, Belden 8402 XLR.

  4. #4

    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    Have done so. Thanks.

  5. #5

    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    If it's an ethernet cable that costs $700, that tells you that it comes from an audio cable company and not straight from a manufacturer of ethernet cables which are dirt cheap. Doesn't mean it won't be the same cable on the inside of the wrap though. It will be interesting to find out who makes the "red" ethernet cable.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

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  6. #6

    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    I hope it's not this one: https://www.ethernet-cords.com/produ...xoC6bcQAvD_BwE

    The above cable is on a 1000' spool and it sells for $199.99 which is what you would expect for an ethernet cable until it crosses over to the audio world. It's red too.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

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  7. #7
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    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    While not all Ethernet cables sound alike, but all the good ones do.
    And the bad one sound just nasty! With drop-outs and noise.

  8. #8
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    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    FWIW - My fav ethernet is AudioQuest Diamond, from Suncoast Audio
    DPT4ME - Dynamics, Presence & Tone for Musical Engagement; MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; Shunyata Omega & Sigma USBs; ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; Aqua La Scala II Optologic DAC; Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated; Ayre Codex dac - updated; Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amp; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamp, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s; Quicksilver Mid Mono amps w/Gold Lion KT77s; Fyne Audio 703s; Symposium Svelte Plus & Ultra Platforms; REL S-812 subwoofers; Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA & 20GA ICs; Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2; Tripp Lite PCs; Wyred 4 Sound power cords; AudioDharma cable cooker; dedicated custom room; various GIK & ASC room treatments; etc.

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  9. #9

    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    Everything makes a difference!

    My girlfriend putting Christmas cards on the coffee table makes a difference!
    Fate ain’t just who’s cookin smells good but which way the wind blows...

    Mac Mini w/ linear power supply, Ayre QB-9 DSD, PS Audio BHK Signature, Mcintosh MC402, Joseph Audio RM33le, Magnapan 3.6r, Velodyne FSX12
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    ...endless tubes, cables and tweaks...

  10. #10
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    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by Arnoldhasmail View Post
    Everything makes a difference!
    My girlfriend putting Christmas cards on the coffee table makes a difference!
    Anything that makes a difference matters. Everything else is just wheel spinning.

  11. #11

    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    The only Ethernet cables that have made a difference for me are the ones that were broken in (and I don't mean broken-in) one way or another.

    But on the other hand for streaming music, Streaming via Comcast is much better than the same stream over Cablevision. Or was it the other way 'round?
    Magnepan 20.7 - CJ ART 300s - CJ GATV2 - Meitner MA-1 V2 -Dedicated JRMC + Synology NAS

  12. #12
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    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    Ethernet cables do not make a bit of difference. As long as they’re of reasonable quality. A “audiophile” Ethernet cable is just a method to take money out of your wallet. I was a Cisco certified network designer in college.. before I left that world for finance. I assure you it’s a giant waste of money and anything you hear is placebo.


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  13. #13
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    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    Au Contraire, Phishphan...
    DPT4ME - Dynamics, Presence & Tone for Musical Engagement; MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; Shunyata Omega & Sigma USBs; ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; Aqua La Scala II Optologic DAC; Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated; Ayre Codex dac - updated; Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amp; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamp, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s; Quicksilver Mid Mono amps w/Gold Lion KT77s; Fyne Audio 703s; Symposium Svelte Plus & Ultra Platforms; REL S-812 subwoofers; Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA & 20GA ICs; Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2; Tripp Lite PCs; Wyred 4 Sound power cords; AudioDharma cable cooker; dedicated custom room; various GIK & ASC room treatments; etc.

    www.getbettersound.com

  14. #14

    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Smith View Post
    Au Contraire, Phishphan...
    Haaaaa...I used to work with engineers...they always explained cables, fuses, tubes...it’s all the same...but we know it’s not...

    i used to to make diy cables out of cat wire...all different windings...all different types...they all sounded different.

    Thats why I’ve come to the conclusion...everything makes a difference...
    Fate ain’t just who’s cookin smells good but which way the wind blows...

    Mac Mini w/ linear power supply, Ayre QB-9 DSD, PS Audio BHK Signature, Mcintosh MC402, Joseph Audio RM33le, Magnapan 3.6r, Velodyne FSX12
    Mac Pro, Kef X300A Wireless, B&W ASW-608
    ...endless tubes, cables and tweaks...

  15. #15
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    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    I agree.

    Everything matters. Price on cables make NO difference. I will say that within a company price seems to make a difference but not between brands.

    AND even then it depends on system synergy.

    START OF RANT (please ignore)

    I hate and Love the Voodoo part of audio - sorry engineers, I know you think you know what is going on - but bottom line - YOU DON'T, at least yet. You only have to listen with your ears to know this is true.

    Unfortunately, companies need to make a profit - thus the marketing CRAP that is put out. If it was real - the scientific community would be turned up side down. And maybe I'll eat my words when it is. I will proudly eat them.

    NOBODY seems to know what is really going on any more than the guy down the street. Too many times over the last 10 years, the home cable guy or etc has made cables that sounded better than the company selling for 100 times more. Come on guys - how many times has somebody covered up the fact they were using a mass market cable only sold in 500' reels so us the user had no idea or that they were caught exchanging the cable they were using at a show with another and after 3 months all is forgiven and people still think their cable are THE BEST? We as a audiophile community suck. Why do we accept this? I know I have before.

    Power cords seem to be more scientific and uses physics as scientists know at this point in time. Other than the extreme markups some companies have (using the asian market as their excuse) the wholesale prices of great power cables seem to be in line with each other.

    END OF RANT
    Jock

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  16. #16
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    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    For those who are interested in Ethernet cable upgrade, a less-costly alternative is to use a pair of fiber media converters, and supplement the receiving side unit with a LPS. The theory is that by converting Ethernet to fiber then back to Ethernet again, whatever noise that might have been in the Ethernet cable from the NAS/router/switch side is isolated, because fiber is immune from EMI and RFI.

    For network players that use 100Mbps Ethernet ports, such as Lumin S1 / A1 / T1 / D1: TP-Link MC110CS
    For network players that use 1000Mbps Ethernet ports, such as Lumin U1 / M1 / D2: TP-Link MC210CS
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  17. #17
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    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    Setting aside the issue of price, there are several technical reasons for differences in Ethernet cables.
    https://planetechusa.com/blog/ethern...-cat7-vs-cat8/

    There was a marked difference when I moved from CAT 5 to CAT 7 due to shielding.
    Moving to CAT7 cables in my home network noticeably improved the sound
    In terms of sonics, it removed a background hash from the signal.

    CAT7 is a braided shielded design with support for >10GB and frequency up to 600 MHz.
    It also uses GG45 connectors which are superior to the old RJ45 connector
    In technical jargon, the CAT7 offers a superior signal to noise ratio.

    Regards.
    2 Channel Stereo :
    Custom Win10 Transport | Mutec MC-3+ USB | Lampizator Amber | Acoustic Portrait Thiyaga | ATC SCM20PSL + JL Audio E-Sub e110

  18. #18
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    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    I have no doubt shielding matters. It's great that a shielded cable improved your setup - I recall reading another positive report about using shielded CAT7 cable here. However, as with any audio debate, there is an opposite camp that prefers unshielded network cable for audio purpose (aside from yet another camp that does not believe cables can be different). I'm not saying one camp is right and the other is wrong - it's more likely it's system specific, as always.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  19. #19
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    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    Peter,

    My post was addressed to the original question asked by the OP. The point being that there is a very clear explanation for the differences one can notice between CAT cables i.e. primarily shielding, bandwidth and cable/connector design. I mentioned CAT 5 because it was used extensively due to low cost. CAT 6 replaced CAT 5 but there is a big jump from CAT 6 to CAT 6A and another step up when you go to CAT 7.

    Regards.
    2 Channel Stereo :
    Custom Win10 Transport | Mutec MC-3+ USB | Lampizator Amber | Acoustic Portrait Thiyaga | ATC SCM20PSL + JL Audio E-Sub e110

  20. #20
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    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    [CITA = Jim Smith; 222841] Au Contraire, Phishphan ... [/ QUOTE]

    +1
    Francisco

    Aries Cerat Kassandra Ref. MKII / Taiko Extreme Server / Gryphon Essence Preamplifier and Stereo Amplifier / Rockport Atria I / REL S-812 (2) / Göbel XLR (2), Göbel Ethernet and USB Cables / MIT Magnum MA Speakers Cables / Shunyata Everest 8000 / Shunyata Omega XC (1), Sigma NR V2 (4) and Alfa NR V1 (2) / Taiko Switch / Paul Hynes SR7T Double Rail / Farad Super3 / Doepke DFS-2 40A / GigaWatt G-C16A 2P / Fuse module AHP 4Gi / Center Stage2 0.8, 1.0 and 1.5

  21. #21

    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil View Post
    Setting aside the issue of price, there are several technical reasons for differences in Ethernet cables.
    https://planetechusa.com/blog/ethern...-cat7-vs-cat8/

    There was a marked difference when I moved from CAT 5 to CAT 7 due to shielding.
    Moving to CAT7 cables in my home network noticeably improved the sound
    In terms of sonics, it removed a background hash from the signal.

    CAT7 is a braided shielded design with support for >10GB and frequency up to 600 MHz.
    It also uses GG45 connectors which are superior to the old RJ45 connector
    In technical jargon, the CAT7 offers a superior signal to noise ratio.

    Regards.
    Listen to different CAT7 cables..they all sound different. Shielding isn't the only thing going on.....

  22. #22

    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by wklie View Post
    For those who are interested in Ethernet cable upgrade, a less-costly alternative is to use a pair of fiber media converters, and supplement the receiving side unit with a LPS. The theory is that by converting Ethernet to fiber then back to Ethernet again, whatever noise that might have been in the Ethernet cable from the NAS/router/switch side is isolated, because fiber is immune from EMI and RFI.

    For network players that use 100Mbps Ethernet ports, such as Lumin S1 / A1 / T1 / D1: TP-Link MC110CS
    For network players that use 1000Mbps Ethernet ports, such as Lumin U1 / M1 / D2: TP-Link MC210CS
    A big +1 here

  23. #23
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    Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingsrule View Post
    A big +1 here
    I need to see the measurements, the data and the double blind studies! Just listening? Rubbish! Where’s the science man!

    (Joking of course). Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference


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  24. #24
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    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I need to see the measurements, the data and the double blind studies! Just listening? Rubbish! Where’s the science man!
    (Joking of course). Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference
    If it were just listening, then everything would be great!
    The problem is, nobody wants to just listen.

  25. #25

    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    This reminds me of the “USB cables don’t make a difference” dust ups that have been taking place all over the interwebs the past few years. You now even have some people saying USB cables make a difference but Ethernet cables don’t, some saying Ethernet cables make a difference but USB cables don’t, and some saying no digital cables make a difference but swear by analog cables. My ears laugh in amusement.
    Anthony
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  26. #26
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    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    My buddy brought over a few ethernet cables from his shootout to test on my system as a sanity check to what he was finding - and yeah, the SOtM dBL CAT 7 LAN Cable was our favorite. It's a huge outlay considering it's MSRP, and especially since we found it worked best in combination with the ISO-CAT6 noise filter. We were floored and I couldn't resist getting a pair for myself afterwards. The generic amazon cables I had before had some harshness there that I thought was attributed to other things up until then.

    The Supra CAT8's were a nice value at $50 / pop, but the SOtM was the cost is no issue result.

    You can read more details at: https://audiobacon.net/category/revi...ital/ethernet/


    Quote Originally Posted by nicoludio View Post
    Thanks and, for me, very timely.

    Do you (or anyone else) have any idea as to what the $700 "red" cable was?

    Separately, has anyone heard or compared the following for use between a NAS/server (Melco) and DAC:

    - Sablon Audio LAN cable

    - Acoustic Revive LAN (LAN-1.0PA) cable

    - SOtM dCBL CAT7 LAN cable.
    Lumin S1 / PS Audio BHK Signature Preamp & 250 Amp / B&W 804D2 / PS Audio P10 Power Regenerator / Synergistic Research Atmosphere Level 3 HC Power Cable / Shunyata Alpha Power Cables / Audience Au24 SX XLR / High Fidelity Reveal XLR / Kimber Monocole XL Speaker Cables / SOtM dBL-Cat7 Ethernet cables / High Fidelity MC0.5 / system upgraded with Synergistic Research Blue Fuses / Nordost Qv1's & Qk2's

  27. #27

    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by the professor View Post
    I agree.

    Everything matters. Price on cables make NO difference. I will say that within a company price seems to make a difference but not between brands.
    This makes absolutely no sense to me. Are you saying the cheapest cable from one company sounds just like the most expensive cable from another company?

    Quote Originally Posted by the professor View Post
    AND even then it depends on system synergy.

    START OF RANT (please ignore)
    Quote Originally Posted by the professor View Post
    I hate and Love the Voodoo part of audio - sorry engineers, I know you think you know what is going on - but bottom line - YOU DON'T, at least yet. You only have to listen with your ears to know this is true.
    Well, I hope that engineers know what is going on because they are the ones designing the circuits you are trying to tweak. In most cases, real engineers design our circuits and tweakers usually butcher them with kludged on parts that don't fit and lifted circuit traces off the CCAs because they have no knowledge or soldering/desoldering skills.

    Quote Originally Posted by the professor View Post
    Unfortunately, companies need to make a profit - thus the marketing CRAP that is put out. If it was real - the scientific community would be turned up side down. And maybe I'll eat my words when it is. I will proudly eat them.
    I'm not sure I understand your point here. Do you mean if the claims made for some tweaks were actually true it would turn the scientific community upside down? I would agree with that and we can start with "grounding" boxes that aren't really connected to anything except people's imaginations.


    Quote Originally Posted by the professor View Post
    NOBODY seems to know what is really going on any more than the guy down the street. Too many times over the last 10 years, the home cable guy or etc has made cables that sounded better than the company selling for 100 times more. Come on guys - how many times has somebody covered up the fact they were using a mass market cable only sold in 500' reels so us the user had no idea or that they were caught exchanging the cable they were using at a show with another and after 3 months all is forgiven and people still think their cable are THE BEST? We as a audiophile community suck. Why do we accept this? I know I have before.

    Power cords seem to be more scientific and uses physics as scientists know at this point in time. Other than the extreme markups some companies have (using the asian market as their excuse) the wholesale prices of great power cables seem to be in line with each other.

    END OF RANT
    So where is this guy?
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

    Reviewer for Positive Feedback

  28. #28
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    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    I personally haven't tried Ethernet cables yet but until about a year I started playing with digital cables. Come on it's only 1's and 0's. Holy Moly do they make a difference.
    George

    Aavik U300 - Borresen 03 with optional Supreme D-TC feet - Naim unitiserve 2tb - Ansuz DTC digital cable with power box - Ansuz Mainz8 D-TC with 1 Ansuz Supreme D-TC and 1 Ceramic V2 power cords - Ansuz Ceramic V2 speaker cables - Ansus X Ethernet - pARTicular Novus full suspension rack.

  29. #29
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    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Smith View Post
    Au Contraire, Phishphan...
    and you have performed DBT to prove this ?
    Cheers ! …. Dave

  30. #30
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    Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikado463 View Post
    and you have performed DBT to prove this ?
    If I had, would you be convinced?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    DPT4ME - Dynamics, Presence & Tone for Musical Engagement; MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; Shunyata Omega & Sigma USBs; ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; Aqua La Scala II Optologic DAC; Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated; Ayre Codex dac - updated; Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amp; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamp, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s; Quicksilver Mid Mono amps w/Gold Lion KT77s; Fyne Audio 703s; Symposium Svelte Plus & Ultra Platforms; REL S-812 subwoofers; Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA & 20GA ICs; Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2; Tripp Lite PCs; Wyred 4 Sound power cords; AudioDharma cable cooker; dedicated custom room; various GIK & ASC room treatments; etc.

    www.getbettersound.com

  31. #31
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    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    Your ears should be the judge not specs
    George

    Aavik U300 - Borresen 03 with optional Supreme D-TC feet - Naim unitiserve 2tb - Ansuz DTC digital cable with power box - Ansuz Mainz8 D-TC with 1 Ansuz Supreme D-TC and 1 Ceramic V2 power cords - Ansuz Ceramic V2 speaker cables - Ansus X Ethernet - pARTicular Novus full suspension rack.

  32. #32

    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    AQ Diamond Ethernet has made a quite significant improvement to Tidal streaming in my system.

  33. #33

    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    I put an AQ Vodka between my router and Aurender and it made an audible difference. Quite a bit actually.


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  34. #34
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    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    This is an interesting subject for me. I am deliberately avoiding this issue by using a direct attached USB drive to my Lumin. From a hypothetical perspective, I can easily imagine scenarios where an Ethernet cable can make a +/- difference to the sound. I suspect that what works in one system might not make any difference in another system.
    Bud

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    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
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  35. #35

    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    I find this an interesting one too. Theoretically an Ethernet link is a data connection with IP error correction. So one could think the cable does not matter much. But when you try it out, it very obviously does. I would guess the difference is due to the nature of the signal.

    As IP error correction was developed for data transfer, it just makes sure all parts of the signal arrive. What is not important in that protocol is which bit arrives first and which one second (talking milliseconds here). If we now switch to a music signal this tiny difference is all that matters: for music time alignment is key (did someone just say MQA?).

    My conclusion is that a better quality Ethernet cable just transmits the signal with less need for error correction and hence less time alignment issues. That’s why it sounds better.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  36. #36
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    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    Ethernet cables can make a difference. I don't think there is any scientific proof why they do but could probably be due to the fact how the noise profile/leakage is carried or filtered from the upstream are influenced into the component. The change in sound (good or better) is NOT due to anything related to networking - the network just acts like a transport to carry these noise profiles. My belief is if there is a way to stop these noise and leakage current, then Ethernet cables will possibly not make a difference.

    I now have a simple home brewed sever setup that don't need streaming and is far less dependent on networking entities - it runs Rock with local drives (SSD) and connected directly to the DAC using audiograde USB PCIe card. Ethernet is just used for management duties where its connected to a switch (powered by LPS). Ethernet cable is cheap $10 BJC CAT 6A.

  37. #37
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    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    I find this an interesting one too. Theoretically an Ethernet link is a data connection with IP error correction. So one could think the cable does not matter much. But when you try it out, it very obviously does. I would guess the difference is due to the nature of the signal.

    As IP error correction was developed for data transfer, it just makes sure all parts of the signal arrive. What is not important in that protocol is which bit arrives first and which one second (talking milliseconds here). If we now switch to a music signal this tiny difference is all that matters: for music time alignment is key (did someone just say MQA?).

    My conclusion is that a better quality Ethernet cable just transmits the signal with less need for error correction and hence less time alignment issues. That’s why it sounds better.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    There is no IP correction done. Its done in the TCP layer (which is layer 4 is OSI network model). A typical client and server, like Tidal and its endpoint (streamer, dac etc), works with these TCP/IP protocols. Any packet errors introduced in a far remote server passing 1000s of routers in between to reach you home cannot be corrected by AQ Diamond Ethernet cable

  38. #38

    Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by Devg View Post
    There is no IP correction done. Its done in the TCP layer (which is layer 4 is OSI network model). A typical client and server, like Tidal and its endpoint (streamer, dac etc), works with these TCP/IP protocols. Any packet errors introduced in a far remote server passing 1000s of routers in between to reach you home cannot be corrected by AQ Diamond Ethernet cable
    Sir, now you need to read a book.

    Error correction is and cannot be done by the cable, ever. It is part of the TCP/IP protocol which is an element of any Ethernet connection.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  39. #39
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    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    Sir, now you need to read a book.
    Don't need a book

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    Error correction is and cannot be done by the cable, ever. It is part of the TCP/IP protocol which is an element of any Ethernet connection.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Did not say cable can correct error. There is only IP checksum but there is no correction. The path in which networking packets gets transmitted from A to B is determined by routing protocols, such as BGP, OSPF. Between two endpoints A(Tidal server) and B(Tidal app), packets can be transmitted form more than one path. When packets gets lost in transmission, they are re-transmitted by some transport layer (layer 4) protocols (not all), like TCP since the protocols uses Sequence no and ACK no to track them and that is why its sometime called a reliable protocol. Other transport layer, like UDP, there is no guarantee. Roon RAAT protocol started as UDP and shifted to TCP sometime in 2017.

    TCP/IP can be carried over variety of MAC/Physical. Ethernet is just one of them and commonly used in home networks. Your Tidal packets originating in a Tidal server may not be carried over Ethernet till it enters your home after a modem. That is why Audiophile Ethernet cables cannot have any effect of the networking aspect of the data - whatever SQ improvement is happening with Ethernet cable is local to one's audio setup and its electrical characteristics and not related to networking (I think).

  40. #40

    Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    This is obviously not your area of specialty, so why argue? It is rather simple if you actually know what you are talking about, but you are confusing so many things, it is hard to even try to respond.

    If you read the postings, this thread and myself as well are talking in particular about a local Ethernet connection to a music system. This has absolutely nothing to do with Tidal servers and where the signal originates from.

    By their nature, and in difference to analog signals, digital signals are always on or off (1s and 0s remember). While an analog signal can be strong or weak, that does not exist in digital. Reason is that the amplitude and wave length of the signal are much shorter, which results in lower signal fault tolerances.

    So, using an Ethernet connection the signal is transported via TCP/IP which is relying on error correction to ensure all data packets arrive on the other end. Hence, there always is either a full connection or no connection. If not all bits are transmitted in a data packet, that data packet is rejected (not transmitted). But there are really many of these data packets in a music stream, remember 44.1K per second in a red book quality stream such as Tidal Hi-Fi. Those are so many, that if a few packets are rejected we cannot hear it. When the rejections are increasing we start to have artifacts, i.e. disturbances that can be heard or seen (e.g. video signal). When there are too many artifacts the result to the end-user’s ear is a so-called drop out, no signal is transmitted over a longer period of time (e.g. 500 ms).

    To make it more complex, a digital signal can be transmitted in many ways. If you are connecting via USB the digital stream is actually transmitted as a digital audio signal instead of IP data. Correspondingly, sound quality is impacted more directly by cable quality in the USB connection. One reason many Sharks have been reporting best sound quality when connecting their DAC via Ethernet (also a source of the sound quality advantage of Linn streamers in the past) is that there is error correction in the signal. You might not receive all packets, but what you receive is bit perfect.

    I said read a book, because this really is signaling 101. It is just difficult to argue when someone is relying on Wikipedia as their knowledge base.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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  41. #41
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    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    I am deliberately avoiding this issue by using a direct attached USB drive to my Lumin. From a hypothetical perspective, I can easily imagine scenarios where an Ethernet cable can make a +/- difference to the sound. I suspect that what works in one system might not make any difference in another system.
    I recall that there were a few reports from Lumin users about getting slightly better SQ from Ethernet than from USB drive. This makes sense to me because USB HDD itself causes EMI / RFI and introduces mechanical vibration. More importantly, USB HDD draws power and therefore strains the Lumin power supply and the power supply noise is increased. Power is of utmost importance to audio. Therefore, I'd encourage you to get a NAS (a fanless one if your music library is not too large) and install MinimServer, or purchase a L1, then use the setup I'd described in post #16.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  42. #42
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    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    This is obviously not your area of specialty, so why argue?
    Not arguing but stating the correct facts. You don't want to know my specialty but I don't think you are aware of anything remotely related to networking the way you are circulating mis-information - as an example, in your earlier post you said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    As IP error correction was developed for data transfer, it just makes sure all parts of the signal arrive.
    which is plain and simply wrong. And now you have corrected your post with "TCP/IP" when I had stated in my previous post that its not IP that is capable of any correction/re-transmission. If you are not using Tidal or any networking streaming service or networking streamer (like a microRendu, SoTm, Jplay dual PC) in you audio chain, its beyond me how Ethernet cable comes to play for better SQ, apart from affecting the electrical characteristics of a connected component. Anyway, I don't want to drag this further as there is already a lot of mis-information circulated in the internet forums about networking and this is my last post on this topic

  43. #43
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    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by wklie View Post
    I recall that there were a few reports from Lumin users about getting slightly better SQ from Ethernet than from USB drive. This makes sense to me because USB HDD itself causes EMI / RFI and introduces mechanical vibration.
    I agree. I started with a 3.5" spinning drive and later moved to SSD powered using a excellent lps, the SQ jumped quiet a bit. All these small little things can have a major impact on SQ if the rest of the system is very revealing and transparent.

  44. #44

    Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    Do not want to continue a conversation, when there does not seem to be a common interest. But just for your better understanding: in the IT and telecoms industries “IP connection” typically refers to a connection based on TCP/IP, independent of what the overlaying protocols are used on top of it. Your argument is a little bit like stating you said vinyl but did not mention you are using a turntable. Also, I am using Tidal among other things and I think 25 years in IT and telecoms should suffice for starters.

    It is surprising that you still continue an argument, while obviously not really being in the know.


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  45. #45
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    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    Ethernet cables carry an analog signal that represents a digital signal. The receiver converts the analog to digital. Since the signal is analog, jitter can be introduced, which can degrade the audio.
    Bud

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  46. #46
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    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    Ethernet cables carry an analog signal that represents a digital signal. The receiver converts the analog to digital. Since the signal is analog, jitter can be introduced, which can degrade the audio.
    Bud Don't you mean ethernet carries a digital signal that represents an analog signal. The DAC converts the digital to analog. Jitter can be introduced at the digital side which can affect the audio.
    George

    Aavik U300 - Borresen 03 with optional Supreme D-TC feet - Naim unitiserve 2tb - Ansuz DTC digital cable with power box - Ansuz Mainz8 D-TC with 1 Ansuz Supreme D-TC and 1 Ceramic V2 power cords - Ansuz Ceramic V2 speaker cables - Ansus X Ethernet - pARTicular Novus full suspension rack.

  47. #47

    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    Specifically in Ethernet cables there are at least EMR and crosstalk issues and skin effects can also apply depending of efficiency of shielding (in STP cables).


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  48. #48
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    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by octadyndude View Post
    Bud Don't you mean ethernet carries a digital signal that represents an analog signal.
    No. That is completely wrong.
    Bud

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  49. #49
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    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    The only time I ever hrad of ethernet cables being used for analog is with DIY projects where folks use ethernet for speaker or interconnect cables.
    George

    Aavik U300 - Borresen 03 with optional Supreme D-TC feet - Naim unitiserve 2tb - Ansuz DTC digital cable with power box - Ansuz Mainz8 D-TC with 1 Ansuz Supreme D-TC and 1 Ceramic V2 power cords - Ansuz Ceramic V2 speaker cables - Ansus X Ethernet - pARTicular Novus full suspension rack.

  50. #50
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    Re: Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

    The only time I ever heard of ethernet cables being used for analog is with DIY projects where folks use ethernet for speaker or interconnect cables.

    sorry for the typo
    George

    Aavik U300 - Borresen 03 with optional Supreme D-TC feet - Naim unitiserve 2tb - Ansuz DTC digital cable with power box - Ansuz Mainz8 D-TC with 1 Ansuz Supreme D-TC and 1 Ceramic V2 power cords - Ansuz Ceramic V2 speaker cables - Ansus X Ethernet - pARTicular Novus full suspension rack.

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Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

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