Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

[nicoff]

It's a simple question:

If I start playback over WiFi or Wired and I break the connection and music continues to play back (Tidal does this folks):

1. Is it magic?
2. Where's the music at?
3. Did the sound get better?
4. Did the sound get worse?
5. Did the sound stay the same?

Why can't anyone answer such basic questions?

I'll add another: Where's the jitter?

Let me try to answer.

1. No magic
2. Music already transferred from source to player device.
3. No
4. No
5. Yes, same until it stops altogether.

PS. No idea about jitter

[AJR]

I auditioned AudioQuest Vodka and Cinnamon ethernet cables against my bog standard ones. Spent two hours listening to the same track and switching out each cable on a blind test basis. I picked the bog standard cable each time. I picked the more expensive vodka over the cinnamon more often than not but not every time. Went with the cinnamon to connect the jack to the router and the router to the NAS and the vodka to connect the router to the Lumin T1. Works a treat. Next step is to check out wklie’s suggestion of a FMC.

[sksouri1456]

I auditioned AudioQuest Vodka and Cinnamon ethernet cables against my bog standard ones. Spent two hours listening to the same track and switching out each cable on a blind test basis. I picked the bog standard cable each time. I picked the more expensive vodka over the cinnamon more often than not but not every time. Went with the cinnamon to connect the jack to the router and the router to the NAS and the vodka to connect the router to the Lumin T1. Works a treat. Next step is to check out wklie’s suggestion of a FMC.

I did the same and bought vodka not 100% convinced but just to relieve my mind
But if you wand mind bogling sq jump try upgrading the ps of modem-router- switch by order of priority or all in one.
I did the later and the jump is just outstanding and very distinguishable.
Even the pic in tv is so clear with better colors!
I bought ifi power supply for 50$ each only,
One guy tried sbooster wich the switch and said is even better!
Cheers


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[KeithR]

dumb question:

Do I need Cat 5e, 6, or 6a cables? I will order from BJC and use as a base case.

[Kuoppis]

dumb question:

Do I need Cat 5e, 6, or 6a cables? I will order from BJC and use as a base case.

Cat7 cables are already available.


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[jinjuku]

CAT5e is way more than enough. I have some 13 year old CAT5E that I just put a 10GBe switch and NIC in play. From RAM disk I'm hitting 1280MB a second consistently. That's two CD's every second. I could transfer my entire collection in 21 minutes over 65 feet of cabling that was $0.30/Foot using RJE's that cost $0.055 cents per.

[KeithR]

Cat7 cables are already available.

Not at BJC...

[nicoff]

CAT5e is way more than enough. I have some 13 year old CAT5E that I just put a 10GBe switch and NIC in play. From RAM disk I'm hitting 1280MB a second consistently. That's two CD's every second. I could transfer my entire collection in 21 minutes over 65 feet of cabling that was $0.30/Foot using RJE's that cost $0.055 cents per.

Totally agree. No need to go overboard for streaming music/CDs.

If you have needs other than streaming music, then that is a different story.

[Devg]

For audio purpose and its bit rate needed, Cat 5e is way more than necessary. I use cheap $15 BJC 6a - with different color cables, it makes it easier to identify and they are built to higher standard (but obviously not in the realm of audiophile ethernet cable ). I power the switch with a LPS though.

[Mike]

Not at BJC...

Go the highest they have. I strongly suggest AQ Diamond. The difference is in the micro details.

[CPP]

dumb question:

Do I need Cat 5e, 6, or 6a cables? I will order from BJC and use as a base case.

Cat 6 will be fine. Save your money and buy music.

[Jim Smith]

Go the highest they have. I strongly suggest AQ Diamond. The difference is in the micro details.

I’ll never forget the totally unexpected improvement from my AQ Vodka to your AQ Diamond when voicing the Magicos at your shop. Not subtle!!!


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[jinjuku]

Go the highest they have. I strongly suggest AQ Diamond. The difference is in the micro details.

I found the difference is in the blindfold.

[Mike]

I’ll never forget the totally unexpected improvement from my AQ Vodka to your AQ Diamond when voicing the Magicos at your shop. Not subtle!!!


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Agreed!


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[Jim Smith]

I found the difference is in the blindfold.

The last thing on my mind was a difference in Ethernet cables. My Vodka cable was 2M, but I needed 3M to comfortably reach my DAC. Mike offered to loan me his Diamond for the session. The difference was so noticeable that I subsequently bought one for myself. No blindfolds needed - just an open mind.

[asindc]

The last thing on my mind was a difference in Ethernet cables. My Vodka cable was 2M, but I needed 3M to comfortably reach my DAC. Mike offered to loan me his Diamond for the session. The difference was so noticeable that I subsequently bought one for myself. No blindfolds needed - just an open mind.

...and open ears.

[jinjuku]

I've had the AQ Vodka, WW Starlight CAT8, Nordost Heimdall II.

I'll put my proverbial blindfold up against anyone's open ears/mind. Your $1000 to my $5000. I'll provide a server/switch/client computer. You provide everything from the USB cable on back. You system, your music.

2 rounds of 10 tracks each. Let me know which track had which cable. You hit 9/10 right you have $5000 in your pocket. Loser pays travel expenses.

You won't know what cable it in play however.

[Jim Smith]

I've had the AQ Vodka, WW Starlight CAT8, Nordost Heimdall II.

I'll put my proverbial blindfold up against anyone's open ears/mind. Your $1000 to my $5000. I'll provide a server/switch/client computer. You provide everything from the USB cable on back. You system, your music.

2 rounds of 10 tracks each. Let me know which track had which cable. You hit 9/10 right you have $5000 in your pocket. Loser pays travel expenses.

You won't know what cable it in play however.

I’m guessing the system set-up is substandard, hence your inability. Sorry, I won’t even think of such a comparison on a questionably set-up system without knowing more.

Please post some images of your set-up and we'll see. Listening area, system, side walls, room dimensions.


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[jinjuku]

I’m guessing the system set-up is substandard, hence your inability. Sorry, I won’t even think of such a comparison on a questionably set-up system without knowing more.

Please post some images of your set-up and we'll see. Listening area, system, side walls, room dimensions.


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Nope, we do this in your stack from your USB cable on back.

The server/client machines will be a stripped down Linux Server with SMB for the file serving. Client computer will be a Windows 10 machine using J River. The client machine will be dual homed (a 2 port Intel server GBe NIC) setup in a LACP Dynamic LAG.

Here is my tutorial on setup of trunking on Switch to Switch (layer 2) but also applies to NIC teaming:

[Jim Smith]

Nope, we do this in your stack from your USB cable on back.

I am talking about the most important issue in any comparison - about how your system is voiced to your room.

[jinjuku]

I am talking about the most important issue in any comparison - about how your system is voiced to your room.

No, we are talking about the most important issue: Your ears only, bias controlled evaluation. We are talking about doing this in a stack OF YOUR CHOOSING from the USB cable on back.

[Mike]

No, we are talking about the most important issue: Your ears only, bias controlled evaluation. We are talking about doing this in a stack OF YOUR CHOOSING from the USB cable on back.

Out of curiosity, what’s your system?


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[jinjuku]

Out of curiosity, what’s your system?


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Out of curiosity why it is relevant to people hearing stuff that isn't there? Ethernet is Asynchronous, buffered, high bandwidth. My 10GBe connection can transfer a 16/44.1 track in literally 0.05 seconds. Tidal can load an entire track into their buffer in 6-7 seconds on my 100Mbps Internet connection.

In both instances I can pull the cable and the entire track plays. Did my sound get worse, get better, stay the same when the cable was pulled?

Also I've done this on AKG 701's so what would the room matter?

I could certainly do this in your own showroom.

[Mike]

Out of curiosity why it is relevant to people hearing stuff that isn't there? Ethernet is Asynchronous, buffered, high bandwidth. My 10GBe connection can transfer a 16/44.1 track in literally 0.05 seconds. Tidal can load an entire track into their buffer in 6-7 seconds on my 100Mbps Internet connection.

In both instances I can pull the cable and the entire track plays. Did my sound get worse, get better, stay the same when the cable was pulled?

Also I've done this on AKG 701's so what would the room matter?

Well, if your system isn’t of high enough resolution or more importantly, not properly setup, you probably won’t hear a difference. Headphones also aren’t the best for micro detail retrieval, depth of soundstage, etc., especially $400 ones.

If you don’t hear a difference, great, pocket the savings or invest somewhere else in your system. But those with highly resolving systems which are properly setup can hear a difference. I wish it was different, but it’s undeniable as to what I’ve heard, Jim and others.

As they say, YMMV.


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[jinjuku]

Well, if your system isn’t of high enough resolution or more importantly, not properly setup, you probably won’t hear a difference. Headphones also aren’t the best for micro detail retrieval, depth of soundstage, etc., especially $400 ones.

If you don’t hear a difference, great, pocket the savings or invest somewhere else in your system. But those with highly resolving systems which are properly setup can hear a difference. I wish it was different, but it’s undeniable as to what I’ve heard, Jim and others.

As they say, YMMV.


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Here's what I'm saying. In your own showroom, once you are blinded to the fact of what Ethernet cable is in the system you can't proverbially snatch the $5000 out of my hand. Pick any ears you like.

I'll even make the cable I use on the spot.

[Mike]

Here's what I'm saying. In your own showroom, once you are blinded to the fact of what Ethernet cable is in the system you can't proverbially snatch the $5000 out of my hand. Pick any ears you like.

I'll even make the cable I use on the spot.

So you won’t answer the question. That tells me all I need to know.


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[Jim Smith]

Here's what I'm saying. In your own showroom, once you are blinded to the fact of what Ethernet cable is in the system you can't proverbially snatch the $5000 out of my hand. Pick any ears you like.

I'll even make the cable I use on the spot.

Hmm...

Are you jockeying to be the next James Randi?

[jinjuku]

I think we all know what we need to know about each other. I have 100% of the trust you actually place in your own ears. If you don't trust them neither do I.

For all the posturing I'm the only one willing to show up with cash in hand.

[Jim Smith]

I think we all know what we need to know about each other. I have 100% of the trust you actually place in your own ears. If you don't trust them neither do I.

For all the posturing I'm the only one willing to show up with cash in hand.

Go get 'em, James!

[jinjuku]

So you won’t answer the question. That tells me all I need to know.


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That makes two of us so we are at least on equal footing.

Again, when the entire track is cached, like Tidal does for instance on Windows (and I think OS/X), what happens when the cable is pulled and the music still plays? Did it get better, worse, stay the same.

Amazing how each of us are refusing to answer the simplest of questions.

Here's another: Why does my setup matter? I'll do this in your own showroom. You should be super confident of $5000 but for some reason...

[jinjuku]

Go get 'em, James!

Talk is cheap.

[Jim Smith]

That makes two of us so we are at least on equal footing.

Again, when the entire track is cached, like Tidal does for instance on Windows (and I think OS/X), what happens when the cable is pulled and the music still plays? Did it get better, worse, stay the same.

Amazing how each of us are refusing to answer the simplest of questions.

Here's another: Why does my setup matter? I'll do this in your own showroom. You should be super confident of $5000 but for some reason...

Ummm, so James, you are going to conduct the test?

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FWIW, this is my last post in this thread. I've let myself over-react, for which I apologize to one & all.

[jinjuku]

Ummm, so James, you are going to conduct the test?

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FWIW, this is my last post in this thread. I've let myself over-react, for which I apologize to one & all.

I'll take the high road with the 'James' thing. Ad hom attacks are the domain of people with no ability to effectively debate. So I won't be going there.

You can bring a friend and as long as they have the dexterity to swap out cabling from a switch I'll show them how to do it.

[AJR]

Go the highest they have. I strongly suggest AQ Diamond. The difference is in the micro details.

Mike - so AQ Diamond is a no brainer over the Vodka? Is it a small improvement or a ‘wow’ improvement? Think I saw a post from Jim saying wow.

[Mike]

Mike - so AQ Diamond is a no brainer over the Vodka? Is it a small improvement or a ‘wow’ improvement? Think I saw a post from Jim saying wow.

Well, we had Jim’s vodka (and a Stock Cat6) and the difference between the diamond and vodka was bigger IMO than the Stock Cat6 and Vodka. I suspect the solid 100% Perfect Surface Silver and DBS is what we are hearing over the Vodka. More air, extension on top, micro detail retrieval, etc.

The stock Cat6 sounds flat by comparison.


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[kzhtoo]

In my modest system, AQ Diamond significantly sounds better than Vodka and a few inexpensive Ethernet cables I have lying around. No blind testing needed, the difference is big enough.
Knowing digital is 0s and 1s and knowing synchronous from asynchronous do not mean you've mastered transmission line theories and this part of electrical engineering.

[AJR]

So Diamond from wall to router to NAS to DAC (ie 3 of them)?

[Mike]

I’m old enough to remember the “signal cables don’t matter”, “power cables don’t matter!, “power conditioning doesn’t matter!”, “USB cables don’t matter!” debates. As my friend Jock says, “it all matters.”


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[AJR]

Agree. Am not questioning that. Just wondering about where on the diminishing returns curve the Vodka and Diamond are...

[the professor]

Interesting. I was thinking just 2. From NAS to router to DAC

So Diamond from wall to router to NAS to DAC (ie 3 of them)?

[Mike]

Agree. Am not questioning that. Just wondering about where on the diminishing returns curve the Vodka and Diamond are...

I hate to say it, but Diamond is the biggest difference (for me anyway) between Stock Cat6 and a after market cable. I really think it’s the silver and DBS that makes it noticeable over Vodka and Stock.


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[kzhtoo]

So Diamond from wall to router to NAS to DAC (ie 3 of them)?

DAC or music server must have Diamond. The others you can live with Vodka.

[Devg]

All of you who has the AQ and thinks it makes a considerable difference, you should try the Sotm iso-cat6 special edition. My friends was using AQ diamond, until he switched to Sotm and never looked back.

Here is a great comparison:
https://audiobacon.net/2017/07/09/so...hile-ethernet/

[jinjuku]

It makes a big enough difference that none of you will take $5000. Got it.

[Mike]

It makes a big enough difference that none of you will take $5000. Got it.

We don’t bet. Do you have a problem? You won’t list your system. Those of us with resolving systems have stated we do hear a difference. Stop trolling. You can leave.


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[nonesup]

So Diamond from wall to router to NAS to DAC (ie 3 of them)?

In my case I'm going from Router to Switch with AQ Cinnamon, from Switch to Melco with AQ Diamond and from Melco to Lumin with AQ Diamond

[Willco]

Not to dredge anything up, but I'm curious why no one has addressed what appears to Jinjuku's main point?

If I understand correctly, he's saying that when comparing ethernet cables you're not really comparing cables because the
track is already in the buffer. That is , when you change cables, you're still hearing the same signal as you were before the
cable was switched. Do I have this right?

"Tidal can load an entire track into their buffer in 6-7 seconds on my 100Mbps Internet connection.
In both instances I can pull the cable and the entire track plays. Did my sound get worse, get better, stay the same when the cable was pulled?"

This actually doesn't meet my experience, as when I pull the cable, the track will only play for a 4 seconds... Am I misunderstanding something?

Can you explain this, Jinjuko?

And finally, I listened carefully, for days, comparing the AQ Diamond, the Sotm with filter, and Supra cat 8. They each have their own sound. The AQ is very resolved, refined, delicate-- almost restrained in a good way. The Sotm is a little more dramatic in the bass and less resolved. The Supra is warm, smooth and another several degrees less resolved.

I have no doubt I could pick the Supra vs the AQ, blind, on my system and on music familiar to me.

[Mike]

I think you just answered your own question. Why? There’s a number of reasons: different cable material (silver in Diamond I believe), you have the DBS working its magic, different design philosophies with respect to insulation.

As my friend says: “it all matters”.

We can’t just dismiss something as being identical since they’re sending packets of data.

It reminds me of the power cable debate. It’s just electricity! The transformers don’t care what cable is delivering the power!

Does anyone serious about hi-end audio today still believe power cables don’t make a difference?


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[Willco]

I already know from personal listening that cables have different effects on sound.

I wasinquiring as to what seems to be Jinjuko's apparent point that an entire track will
already be buffered so you when you switch cables you're hearing the same signal already
buffered in the dac. Is that the point he's making?

That's not my experience as when I pull the cable, the music plays for just a few seconds.

I'm just trying to understand the basis for his argument...

[nonesup]

A few days ago, the importer of Goebel, brought me an Ethernet cable to my house, to test it between my Melco and my Lumin, comparing it with my AQ Diamond. I was really happy with my AQ, but the Goebel is very superior (also in price).
Decreases the digital brightness that you can have in the system very noticeably.
The body of the music is fantastic and with respect to the bass, it seems that I have added another woffer of 9 ".
When he had already decided that he was buying the cable, he took it out of a bag that came with the box of a Goebel XLR and placed it between Lumin and AR Ref 5SE. Wow! Awesome. I know I will buy it, now I can not but soon .........
Really the Goebel cables are something very special and make me understand that I still have a lot of improvement without changing "bigger pieces" like amplifier, speakers .... ...