Five Questions For Alon Wolf

[LVB]

Interesting piece, especially the part about time alignment…

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/arti...for-alon-wolf/

[Kuoppis]

What does it mean to produce a no holds barred design:

Valin: The M6 is your finest effort yet—and the best dynamic loudspeaker I’ve heard. How are you going to top this?

Wolf: I have no idea.




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[Mike]

Interesting piece, especially the part about time alignment…

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/arti...for-alon-wolf/

The topic of time alignment was one of the areas we covered in our Magico dealer training back in June. It was interesting to learn that moving drivers around trying to achieve proper time alignment, actually leads to time MIS-alignment. Even the "steps" have play in them which leads to minute losses in time alignment. I looked back on my notes and I wrote "there is only one absolute center point of where the drivers align in time and space, and if all the drivers absolute center are perfectly aligned, then thats the only point perfect time alignment can be achieved". Alon explains it much better in his Q&A above.

The other topic I found interesting was the discussion of actual driver and crossover materials. We got to touch and see competitor drivers, crossovers, etc. and compare to equivalently priced Magico speaker parts. That was a real eye opener. Shocking to be honest.

[a.wayne]

The topic of time alignment was one of the areas we covered in our Magico dealer training back in June. It was interesting to learn that moving drivers around trying to achieve proper time alignment, actually leads to time MIS-alignment. Even the "steps" have play in them which leads to minute losses in time alignment. I looked back on my notes and I wrote "there is only one absolute center point of where the drivers align in time and space, and if all the drivers absolute center are perfectly aligned, then thats the only point perfect time alignment can be achieved". Alon explains it much better in his Q&A above.

The other topic I found interesting was the discussion of actual driver and crossover materials. We got to touch and see competitor drivers, crossovers, etc. and compare to equivalently priced Magico speaker parts. That was a real eye opener. Shocking to be honest.

Regarding time alignment ,


Alon is correct but misleading , WA in presenting their moving baffle design is correct but misleading , both designs will achieve a "different" (different not necessarily better) sonic presentation of the soundscape , the WA more so because you can move the drivers, so the sonic change will be more dramatic, you may or may not like , both are not time aligned designs.

I do agree with Alon on baffle continuity vs diffraction, disagree on step baffle design being an issue with diffraction , you can still get good aero and continuity with a proper step baffle design, baffle width and curve length is important here, if coherency is important, as well as in the recording details and soundscape , IMO a stepped baffle is the best way at the set listening distance, WA does have a lot of baffle discontinuity with their "stepped designs" and i do agree with him here about the possible diffraction issues.


Many ways to skin the cat ...



Regards

[Mike]

I'll trust Alon on this one.


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[a.wayne]

I'll trust Alon on this one.


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Haaa ha ..., i like it ..


Anyway , plenty competition in the 100K + price range , lots of Horns and 4 tower systems to compete against ..

gentlemen start your engines ..


Regards

[wgerman]

So the rounded "aerodynamic" (?????) shape allows for minimum diffraction, and the speaker to disappear into the image.. Then I read the comment, and thats a good point how the S series has this wide baffle but imaging is good because of its smooth edges? Something doesn't make sense here. The S series is about as wide as a sheet of plywood but is said to disappear but Wilson's stepped design introduces diffractions?

[mdp632]

I would ask him why MIT cables in the listening room ? As far did magico select MIT based on technical / performance one ? They seem to swap electronics ch/ soulution etc .. but is MIT always the cable/ interconnect of choice ?

[LVB]

.....The S series is about as wide as a sheet of plywood but is said to disappear but Wilson's stepped design introduces diffractions?

Indeed, diffractions occur around corners (and edges), not flat surfaces. In fact the ideal loudspeaker will have an infinite baffle.

[Mike]

I would ask him why MIT cables in the listening room ? As far did magico select MIT based on technical / performance one ? They seem to swap electronics ch/ soulution etc .. but is MIT always the cable/ interconnect of choice ?

MIT sounds best with Magico and that has been my findings. The “boxes” can provide instant current to the speakers, something sealed box speakers benefit from.

YMMV.


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[mep]

MIT sounds best with Magico and that has been my findings. The “boxes” can provide instant current to the speakers, something sealed box speakers benefit from.

YMMV.


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Mike-I assume you are saying that because of this: "At the same time it is storing and delivering reserve power to the driver complement, whenever additional energy is required by the audio signal." So now MIT has combined a power supply/speaker interface/speaker cable system all in one box? Something sounds a bit odd here.

[MikeCh]

MIT sounds best with Magico and that has been my findings. The “boxes” can provide instant current to the speakers, something sealed box speakers benefit from.

YMMV.


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Are you saying that other speaker cables do not provide “instant current” to speakers?


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[mep]

Are you saying that other cable types do not provide “instant current” to speakers?


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All speaker cables should be delivering the current instantly from the power amp they are hooked up to. I have never heard of a speaker cable/interface box claiming to store current and release it when necessary. That is the difference in claims being made here.

[MikeCh]

All speaker cables should be delivering the current instantly from the power amp they are hooked up to. I have never heard of a speaker cable/interface box claiming to store current and release it when necessary. That is the difference in claims being made here.

That’s my understanding as well, Mark.


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[LVB]

That’s my understanding as well, Mark.


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+1

I much prefer the Synergistic to MIT

[mdp632]

Perhaps Mike can clarify with his magico and or mit contacts ?

[Mike]

Mike-I assume you are saying that because of this: "At the same time it is storing and delivering reserve power to the driver complement, whenever additional energy is required by the audio signal." So now MIT has combined a power supply/speaker interface/speaker cable system all in one box? Something sounds a bit odd here.

Psst....capacitors.


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[mep]

Psst....capacitors.


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Hope it's more than that Mike. If all there is inside the big aluminum box in addition to all of the articulation poles is a bank of capacitors, they have to be robbing power from the signal as it enters the interface in order to store it. These boxes as described sound like they are trying to do what the power supply in your amplifier is doing. Speaker cables should be delivering the instantaneous power from the amp directly to the speakers and not storing and releasing the power outside of what the amplifier power supply has already done. And who wants the output of their power amplifier looking into another quasi power supply that is storing energy? There must be more to the $79K story.

[Mike]

Hope it's more than that Mike. If all there is inside the big aluminum box in addition to all of the articulation poles is a bank of capacitors, they have to be robbing power from the signal as it enters the interface in order to store it. These boxes as described sound like they are trying to do what the power supply in your amplifier is doing. Speaker cables should be delivering the instantaneous power from the amp directly to the speakers and not storing and releasing the power outside of what the amplifier power supply has already done. And who wants the output of their power amplifier looking into another quasi power supply that is storing energy? There must be more to the $79K story.

Your question was specifically about power. I answered the question. If you want to know more details, scientific details, call Bruce Brisson. He would love to chat with you. Or you can sift through the dozens of white papers on their website explaining their technology. There is a lot going on and trust me, the MIT on Magico is terrific.

That being said, there are a lot of great cables out there and people need to decide for themselves based on Sonics and budget,


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[Mike]

Here’s some info:

http://www.mitcables.com/articles/mi...hnologies.html


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[Mike]

Or for even more info, here is a link to one of MIT’s patents concerning the topic at hand:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/5,956,410


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[mep]

Your question was specifically about power. I answered the question. If you want to know more details, scientific details, call Bruce Brisson. He would love to chat with you. Or you can sift through the dozens of white papers on their website explaining their technology. There is a lot going on and trust me, the MIT on Magico is terrific.

That being said, there are a lot of great cables out there and people need to decide for themselves based on Sonics and budget,


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I pulled the quote from what they are doing from the MIT website. I didn't see any details on how their box stores power that came from the amplifier and then releases it later when the box decides your speakers need the power. You have now inserted something in your signal path between your amplifier and your speakers that is deciding when to store and release energy and it takes away the direct connection from your amplifier to your speakers that speaker cables normally provide.

[Mike]

See links above.


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[mep]

Or for even more info, here is a link to one of MIT’s patents concerning the topic at hand:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/5,956,410


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I read it.

[a.wayne]

So the rounded "aerodynamic" (?????) shape allows for minimum diffraction, and the speaker to disappear into the image.. Then I read the comment, and thats a good point how the S series has this wide baffle but imaging is good because of its smooth edges? Something doesn't make sense here. The S series is about as wide as a sheet of plywood but is said to disappear but Wilson's stepped design introduces diffractions?

Because it's not a contiguous baffle design, Baffle width does affect imaging, Baffle shape diffraction, rounded edges does help diffraction, large baffle width project better but does not image as well,Wilson combats the diffraction issue somewhat with baffle foam.


Regards ..

[a.wayne]

Psst....capacitors.


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lol....

[Tony007]

I pulled the quote from what they are doing from the MIT website. I didn't see any details on how their box stores power that came from the amplifier and then releases it later when the box decides your speakers need the power. You have now inserted something in your signal path between your amplifier and your speakers that is deciding when to store and release energy and it takes away the direct connection from your amplifier to your speakers that speaker cables normally provide.

With MIT cables the signal IS directly connected to the load with ZERO breaks in the wires. The LCR networks are all connected in parallel. These networks deliver additional “in phase” power to the load. Bruce uses the LCR networks to extend and flatten the articulation response of the cable.

[Mike]

So, the take away for me from the M6 launch article for me is the discussion of time alignment and how moving drivers around actually leads to time MIS-alignment. There is only one absolute center point. I wish you all could have been at the training June at Magico HQ. Alon went into an extensive description and education on this, among other things. It made total sense.

Lastly, Magico’s consistency with MIT cables, which I totally agree with. Again, that isn’t to say there aren’t other great cables, there are! The Sigma cables from Shunyata are holy sh!t good. Seriously. I’m saving up. Must have. Must have. They are SUPERB on the Vivid’s. The new AQ power cables are jaw dropping good too. And the new Ansuz X series is great too. So much good stuff.

[mdp632]

So, the take away for me from the M6 launch article for me is the discussion of time alignment and how moving drivers around actually leads to time MIS-alignment. There is only one absolute center point. I wish you all could have been at the training June at Magico HQ. Alon went into an extensive description and education on this, among other things. It made total sense.

Lastly, Magico’s consistency with MIT cables, which I totally agree with. Again, that isn’t to say there aren’t other great cables, there are! The Sigma cables from Shunyata are holy sh!t good. Seriously. I’m saving up. Must have. Must have. They are SUPERB on the Vivid’s. The new AQ power cables are jaw dropping good too. And the new Ansuz X series is great too. So much good stuff.

Now, is this center point sometimes a called a point source? Ala KEF Uni-Q or similar? Does every manufacturer define and design it based on their own goals?

[Mike]

Now, is this center point sometimes a called a point source? Ala KEF Uni-Q or similar? Does every manufacturer define and design it based on their own goals?

That’s an excellent question.


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[Kuoppis]

With MIT cables the signal IS directly connected to the load with ZERO breaks in the wires. The LCR networks are all connected in parallel. These networks deliver additional “in phase” power to the load. Bruce uses the LCR networks to extend and flatten the articulation response of the cable.

That is some nice wordsmithing, isn’t it? Although it’s an old marketing trick to make up pseudo-scientific gobbledygook trying to impress people, knowing that many will not ask what it actually means for not to embarrass themselves. I doubt anyone would use that in high end audio though .

I just wonder, is there is an actual meaning to these in the Queen’s English?

- zero breaks in the wires?
- LCR networks all connected in parallel?
- additional power to the load?
- flatten articulation response?

Here’s an attempt:
- zero breaks in the wires? - My cables also come in a one-piece strand, that is generally a good idea when attempting to transport a signal in pure form.
- LCR networks all connected in parallel? - Please explain ‘network’ in this context - rest assured I can follow any explanation about signaling after 1 1/2 decades in telecoms. What is the ‘network’ here? I wonder if it is any good for preserving the original signal if it is diverted or bouncing around inside these boxes the cables run through.
- additional power to the load? - Ever heard of the second law of thermodynamics? It also works reciprocally. Energy never disappears, it can only change form. Similarly energy never just emerges from thin air either.
- flatten articulation response? Sounds like the signal is reduced in the process, not sure I want that. So far I have been paying ridiculous amounts of money to avoid that.

Humor me.


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[Devg]

With MIT cables the signal IS directly connected to the load with ZERO breaks in the wires. The LCR networks are all connected in parallel. These networks deliver additional “in phase” power to the load. Bruce uses the LCR networks to extend and flatten the articulation response of the cable.

Interesting tech but didn't understand what it means. Where does this additional power come from ? You can never create additional power all by itself if the speaker consumes all of it from the power amps direct connection, unless these boxes are active in nature (which means it would have external power feeds and AFAIK, it doesn't).