Recommend me a SS pre.....

[Randy Myers]

Oh wow... that must be something pretty special. I know how much you loved your Ayres gear.

[joeinid]

Yes, I'm really happy but still trying to stop the obsession.

Oh wow... that must be something pretty special. I know how much you loved your Ayre gear.

[Randy Myers]

Hehe... I know the feeling... but Joe, it is part of you.

[joeinid]

Maybe I can have that part removed

Hehe... I know the feeling... but Joe, it is part of you.

[sharkmouth]

Maybe I can have that part removed

It's like the magic smoke...

[CPP]

Yes, I'm really happy but still trying to stop the obsession.

Joe are you using the stock tubes in your MicroZOTL2.0. I read in this article "" rolled in my pair of NOS Tung-Sol black glass, oval plate 1947 6SN7 along with a pair of NOS Gold Brand Sylvania 1957 12AT7, the performance went to an even higher level of performance across the board.""

[joeinid]

No stock tubes.

When I ordered it, I got the 12SN(?) tubes and a few other of their 12AT/12AU tubes. I later found out that the 12SN series tubes are really only for the headphone output, I think and need to really find out.

Once I thought it was broken in, I swapped in a pair of Mullard 12AU7 tubes from Upscale to lower the gain a bit and according to everything I read - to soften/sweeten the top end with them. They are definitely way better.

I have not done too much tube rolling but am really happy with how it sounds now. Sure I could actually stand a bit more sweetening/softening, but that's just my personal preference showing through. If I got it that way, I am afraid I may not like as much. It's just a hunch.

There are times I just can not believe what I am hearing. Especially at night, at lower to mid volumes, it's simply outstanding with my MC303, A36 and Triodes. OMG! For under $2200 delivered, you can have everything else. Add another $125-ish for the Mullards and sit back and enjoy. Open, dynamic, sweet, quiet, depth, 3D, lit from within, separation and a big smile from me.

I will try and find those tubes you mention. I sometimes find it confusing trying to get tubes.

Joe are you using the stock tubes in your MicroZOTL2.0. I read in this article "" rolled in my pair of NOS Tung-Sol black glass, oval plate 1947 6SN7 along with a pair of NOS Gold Brand Sylvania 1957 12AT7, the performance went to an even higher level of performance across the board.""

[Jack]

Joe

If you want to further "sweeten/soften" the sound the Sylvanias will take you in the other direction and raise the gain. In addition to the Mullard's you could try your Raytheon's or even late 50's early 60's RCA black plate 12AU7's. For the 6SN7's the Tung Sol's are pretty neutral similar to Hytron. For the direction you are wanting to go RCA from the same era as the 12AU7's have that sound. Great bass and smoother top end. The best selection and advice for those tubes would be from Andy at VTS. Also the descriptions of the tubes on his website is pretty spot on. Just what my ears hear based on rolling with amps, preamps and tube DAC's.

[joeinid]

All great info Jack. Thank you. I'll contact Andy and see what he has to recommend. It's worth trying something else.

Joe

If you want to further "sweeten/soften" the sound the Sylvanias will take you in the other direction and raise the gain. In addition to the Mullard's you could try your Raytheon's or even late 50's early 60's RCA black plate 12AU7's. For the 6SN7's the Tung Sol's are pretty neutral similar to Hytron. For the direction you are wanting to go RCA from the same era as the 12AU7's have that sound. Great bass and smoother top end. The best selection and advice for those tubes would be from Andy at VTS. Also the descriptions of the tubes on his website is pretty spot on. Just what my ears hear based on rolling with amps, preamps and tube DAC's.

[Randy Myers]

Dang, you got me thinking about the MicroZOTL2.0 Joe . The only thing that might be a problem for me is I wish it had 2 or three outputs. To the Job 225 (yes I have fallen in love with this amp again), but also to the sub, and would be nice to keep the Bryston BHA-1 hooked, but that can be handled by switching cables... the sub might be an issue though.

[joeinid]

It really is a wonderful piece. They offer a trial and well worth the effort. I am not sure how to best hook up your sub, etc.. But, it's not expensive enough for some

Dang, you got me thinking about the MicroZOTL2.0 Joe . The only thing that might be a problem for me is I wish it had 2 or three outputs. To the Job 225 (yes I have fallen in love with this amp again), but also to the sub, and would be nice to keep the Bryston BHA-1 hooked, but that can be handled by switching cables... the sub might be an issue though.

[Jack]

Randy

The headphone amp section of MZ might well take the place of the Bryston then you could get a sub with speaker level inputs.

[Randy Myers]

I am also thinking that I might not need the sub. The KEF may be fine on their own. I use the sub mainly because I already have it. I am seriously thinking that I might have to sell the ARC and if I do getting one of these.

I do have a couple questions about the options.
* remote, Joe had mentioned that it comes with a basic volume control type remote. If this is the case then is the optional remote needed? If the optional remote is just the little Apple looking remote that seems like $250 is WAY over priced.
* Power supply, is the linear that much better? Worth $595?
* DC cable length, is literally for easier placement? Is is good if the power supply is right next to the main pre?
* Standard tubes vs their NOS. Am I going to get better tubes right away, from Upscale, etc. If so then no reason to buy their NOS, correct?

[joeinid]

Yes, it comes with an optional apple remote. I don’t know if the volume control is motorized if you don’t get it. You’ll have to ask. I bought the longer dc cable just to make placement easier. Mine is next to it for now but my rack setup will change shortly. I believe better power makes better gear so I absolutely believe the lps is worth it. I have not tried it without. If you are using the headphone output, get the nos tubes and ask for them to install a set of 12AU7, that way you will not have to open the unit and if you want to return it, you’ll be good to go. Don’t worry about any other or additional tubes until you decide to keep it. You can always roll them later.


Black or silver.

[Kuoppis]

It really is a wonderful piece. They offer a trial and well worth the effort. I am not sure how to best hook up your sub, etc.. But, it's not expensive enough for some

I think heihei was looking for an SS amp.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[joeinid]

I know and I am sorry for the thread derail. Randy and others had questions. Back to SS preamps.

I think heihei was looking for an SS amp.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Randy Myers]

Well... the OP has not been participating, appearing to be satisfied with reading the comments, etc. The thread took a turn and no one seemed to mind ....

One final question though... I am still confused a little. The remote, even if you do not ad the remote to your order you get the basic volume remote? Or do you have to ad the remote option to get any remote? Does the remote options give a better remote, as in a motorized volume? Their site is very unclear on this and does not show the remote that you get or do not get depending on options that are chosen.

Back to SS now.... To summarize, we all agree there are plenty of good preamps out there, many well known, some not so much. Pass, Bryston, Esoteric, PS Audio, among others ... Joe mentioned three that he feels are above and beyond performance for the dollar factor, if I am remembering correctly.... The MicroZOTL2.0, the Prima Luna's, and the Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE, of which the W4S is the SS representative of the group.

[Jack]

Randy

One of the LTA people is a member so just contact him. "willsw" I understand it as either remote or no remote as to how it is built. It was only added as an option in the later part of this year.

[joeinid]

If I am understanding correctly, heihei is looking for a preamp not constrained by price/cost and therefore something more able to match his other gear. I suspect he's looking for a preamp with stellar performance regardless of price within sane levels.

[Randy Myers]

Yea, I believe you are correct Joe. He also said that he is not opposed to saving money .... But yea, there is a ton of good stuff out there if price is not an option. Man, now tell me that would not be a fun investigation!

[Mechnutt]

I am surprised that no one has recommended D'Agostino gear. I personally haven't heard his gear but I have read the reviews and there was a lot of hub bub about his gear a while back.

Now if some one was on a budget and wanted an excellent bang for the buck SS preamp, the Parasound JC2 is fabulous for its black background, air and transparency.

[heihei]

Awesome discussions chaps - apologise for not being too active, but to be honest my experience lags behind others on the forum - hence the question!
I have no problem with the discussions drifting into tube pre's esp if there is a comparison to SS pre's. I spent some time today comparing the AR Ref 10 to Nagra Jazz to Thoress. The Ref 10 gives a fantastic sense of being in the auditorium, capturing the atmosphere / space of the recording. In doing so, it places you half-way back and so you miss some of the fine detail.
The Nagra on the other-hand, majors on detail but can have a slight edge, def putting you in the front row. Bearing in mind the price difference though (and the Jazz is in basic form, i.e. no isolation platter and standard power supply) it's a great bit of kit with stunning build quality.
The Thoress also puts you in the front row, but has a fatter sound to the Nagra, so doesn't have the edge. More listening required on this, but like it so far.
Hoping to try an Audiopax and VTL 6.5 sometime soon, and potentially a CH L1. I'll report back.

[CGabriel]

If you are considering tubes pre then one that is not often mentioned (but should be) is the Aesthetix. Not sure if you have a distributor in the UK but it is truly special.

[hifinutt]

you have to try a grandinote proemio , you will be surprised how good it is

and just another plug for this ss pre which will shock you . the op is 147 miles from a dealer who will lend you one to try at no obligation .

[Anatta]

Audia Flight Strumento No 1
Audionet Pre I G3/Pre G2/Stern
Burmester 088/077
T+A P 3000 HV

[Arnoldhasmail]

Once I realized how much I love my MZ2, I sold everything else. I’m down to my MZ2 as my only preamp. All my Ayre gear is sold too.

That really blows my mind...maybe I really have to consider trying one...

[Arnoldhasmail]

I’ve had many and the stp-se can hang with some of the best, under the right circumstances. I do a majority of listening at low volumes and I am pretty excited about my LTA MZ2 right now, specifically for those low level late night listening sessions. As much as I loved my CJ GAT, I could never get the right level. Either it was too loud or too low and even on step 1 it was sometimes not right for me. Everything in context matters. I can’t see anything right now being better for me than my MZ2.

I tend to listen at mid to higher levels...do you think the pre does that well or can? What’s the gain?

[Jack]

If I remember correctly from my research on it 12 db with the 12AT7's and a bit lower with 12AU7's if you have an amp that needs it like the Job amps. I think Joe is still running it with the 12AU7's into the MC-303 which should be similar in input sensitivity to your amp. The standard 12AT7 level should be enough.

[Arnoldhasmail]

So the 6sn7's are only for the speaker output? Nothing to do with pre-amp duties...

[Jack]

I would call them and talk to them as by all reports they are good guys who are interested in happy customers. One of them is actually a member here.

[heihei]

Reading up on these a bit more, am wondering if they might be the perfect partner to the Quadratures? Might explore the idea a bit more.

[joeinid]

I tend to listen at mid to higher levels...do you think the pre does that well or can? What’s the gain?

Are you asking about the LTA? I absolutely do think it would be great at higher levels.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

[joeinid]

That really blows my mind...maybe I really have to consider trying one...

Tell me about it. Are the others better? In some ways but overall, the LTA does a superb job.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

[RichardAusten]

I would suggest listening to any SS preamps that your local dealers have and that price is largely relational to the specific company not across brands.

An example is thus: Say you love the sound of ribbon planar speakers - maybe it is priced at $2k and you like it better than ANY boxed speaker at $10k - you can call it, like some reviewers who feel this way, a giant killer. On the hand if you dislike the sound of such planars, as many many MANY people do, then you will the reverse that a very good $2k boxed speaker rips apart a $15k panel.

This goes for amplifiers, sources, etc. if you are a fan of Single Ended Triode operation with High efficiency loudspeakers then chances are you will find a preamp or integrated for under $5k that you will like better than $150k worth of Krell/Levinson/Soulution/Edge/Celestion etc. We all might agree that that the $50k Krell sounds better than the $3,000 Krell however. So if you LOVE the $3k Krell then you will find the $50k Krell to make sense - it is about raising the bar of the platform of design.

If you buy into the "platform sound" then to you the top model of that platform is justifiable but which may seem crazy to me. Some people are also more picky about certain traits than others - so when I listen to music I may focus more on the tone and timbre and like the ambient energy of an active tube preamp while someone else will listen to that same thing and feel that a passive preamp is more neautral with a more open accurate character. I may view it as lacking definition, body and weight that is on the recording and is being gutted.

So you can audition the exact same thing and have a pretty big difference of what is happening or what you want your music to sound like. So when comparing SS to tube I focus less on the money but the design but then within the same design I find more money almost always equals better to much better sound.

For me the M3 preamp is the exact same design as the M10 preamp the latter is a balls to the walls improvement in parts quality and sound quality. You pays more you gets more - BUT if you don't like the way those preamps reproduce sound then you probably won't understand why the M10 is priced into the stratosphere.

So it sounds like the OP is in the technology sampling stage of seeing which of the preamp technologies suits his preference because in general one will come out on top. The only advice I have is to compare apples to apples - in other words compare say three very well regarded passive premps, three well regarded SS preamps, and 3 SET maker preamps, and 3 PP maker preamps, and heck even OTL or class D. Audition in the same general price ranges as it's not really fair to listen to a $50k SS preamp against a $1500 tube preamp for example.

Lastly, it also somewhat depends on the system one is using as well - the level of resolution the rest of the system has in order to delineate what in fact the premps under test are doing - for instance you could bring in a preamp that throws light on the weaknesses of the rest of the system - it gets the blame for being rubbish when in fact it is the rest of the system that is rubbish and the preamp you think sucks is actually the rock star of the entire system waiting to be surrounded by better gear. That's why I much prefer to go out and hear an AWESOME mind blowing goosebump giving system then writing all the names down of the components and putting that set-up together. Too much buy and sell hit and miss blind buy mixing and matching with guessed at system synergy.

[sharkmouth]

It is true of what you write Richard, but, every now & very very occasionally then, you come across a component that bridges that divide, to the point of a re-evaluation where you have to add 2 figures to the end numerical to do it justice. I wonder how that happens....

[heihei]

Richard - great post and fully agree. That's exactly how I've approached the rest of the system.

[Mordante]

Does anyone here know if the there is a pre amp with a inbuild multibit dac? I currently own a integrated amp and a Schiit Mulitbit Gungnir. In the (far) future I might like to move to a pre/pwer combo. But I'd prefer to keep the amount of boxes the same.

So either phono amp or DAC has to be on build, both is also an option. Or even a pre-amp with streamer. That way MY Aries LE could also retire.

[heihei]

First demo of a SS pre this week - the Soulution 520. In summary I was very impressed - it matched the Bernings well for speed and natural timbre but brought some punch and dynamics to the party. The inclusion of a decent phono stage is a plus too.

Interestingly, I also heard the 511 power amp in my set-up too and thought it was exceptional - it was the first SS power I've heard that gets close to the Quadratures for speed and natural timbre. The 511 loses something in air and space around the instruments, but has better bass tone and control. The two are voiced quite differently, with the Soulution having an overall darker tonality - not in a bad way and in fact was very appealing, but notable none-the-less.

Hopefully the CH L1 should be with me soon.

[sharkmouth]

The CH will give you everything you are looking for that the Soulution can't, but it won't better that the Soulution brings to the table. The Soulution will be one step closer to tubes, but, if it was me, after owning the 520 for quite some time, I'd buy an Aries Cerat Incito SE

[heihei]

Not to spoil my own findings, but how do you articulate the differences between the 520 and L1?

No distribution of Aries Cerat in the UK sadly.

[Kuoppis]

First demo of a SS pre this week - the Soulution 520. In summary I was very impressed - it matched the Bernings well for speed and natural timbre but brought some punch and dynamics to the party. The inclusion of a decent phono stage is a plus too.

Interestingly, I also heard the 511 power amp in my set-up too and thought it was exceptional - it was the first SS power I've heard that gets close to the Quadratures for speed and natural timbre. The 511 loses something in air and space around the instruments, but has better bass tone and control. The two are voiced quite differently, with the Soulution having an overall darker tonality - not in a bad way and in fact was very appealing, but notable none-the-less.

Hopefully the CH L1 should be with me soon.

That’s a couple of stunning preamps you are evaluating there...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[sharkmouth]

Not to spoil my own findings, but how do you articulate the differences between the 520 and L1?

No distribution of Aries Cerat in the UK sadly.

Very similar, really nitpicking to find the differences. I would place the Soulution sound as a "small" step closer to warmer, both world class.

[heihei]

The LTA MZ2 arrived this weekend, and very impressive it is too! No chance to back-to-back to other pre's yet (currently have a silver-wired MFA Passive and CH Precision L1 available), but will do that this week.

[hifinutt]

ooh that mfa silverwired pre is a real peach .....

[hifinutt]

had to downsize my 2 box modwright pre to raise funds for a new speaker and got a humble bel canto pre 3 with dedicated vbs1 battery supply . i would put this on a par with a silver mark 2 music first classic pre . heaven knows why bel canto stopped making them , they have a habit of using their vol controlled dacs into their amps which sounds digital and horrible in my experience [ i have tried many times ]

so the pre has 200 volume stops which gives precise control , it is ultra quiet and so far sounds pretty good . at its very modest cost it really is rather an audiophile bargain

[joeinid]

Some of the earlier BelCanto gear like the Pre 3 were stellar. Congratulations.

[heihei]

The CH Precision L1 is stunning - instills a great sense of order in the music, establishing a big 3D soundstage, precise placement of instruments, and a very natural voicing. Having spent time with a full CH stack (C1, L1, 2x A1), I'd say it's the pick of the bunch.
In comparison to the Soulution 5-series, I'd pick the L1 - it's overall a "classier" performer.
Whilst the LTA MZ is cracking value, it doesn't get close to the L1 (or Soulution for that matter). Neither does the MFA passive.

Very tempted by the L1, but will likely wait until Munich in case anything jumps out there!

[tube-vds]

some say this is the best SS pre on the planet:

http://www.robert-koda.com/K-10/k10.html