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  1. #1

    MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Please help me out here, are there realistic DAC alternatives available to try out full decoding? I was looking for one I could buy just to try it out. Unless you go for top dollar it gets thin.

    MSB Select - 80K, ok I’ll take two
    MSB Reference - 40K upwards
    DCS Rossini - 24K
    Berkeley Ref 2 - 18K
    Brinkman Nyquist - 18K (terrible measured perf)
    Mark Lewinson 519 - 17K, only announced
    .
    .
    .
    Nothing
    .
    .
    .
    Nothing
    .
    .
    .
    Nothing.
    .
    .
    .
    Lumins 2-10K - unfolding (Wolfson DAC)
    Estoteric N-05 - 8K, only announced (unfolding, since rng chg)
    MSB Analog DAC - 7K decoding
    Aurender A10 - 6K decoding, mainly a NAS
    Krell Vanguard DAC 4.5K, unfolding only announced (ESS9018)
    Mytek Manhattan 2 - 4K decoding
    Oppo UDP-205 - 1.5K decoding
    Bel Canto ACI600 - xK, only announced
    Quad Artery xK, only announced
    Mytek Brooklyn - 2K decoding
    Bluesound, Onkyo, LG, Onkyo, Moon, Sony, NAD, Meridian, Pioneer, Technics, Audiolab, Project, Rotel, Teac, Wadax
    Audioquest dongles, smartphones etc

    Not joining in so far Aesthetix, Antelope, Arcam, ARC, Auralic, Aqua, Ayon, Ayre, Benchmark, Bricasti, Bryston, Burmester, Chord, exaSound, Exogal, Hegel, Lampizator, Lector, Luxman, McIntosh, Meitner, Merging, Nagra, Naim, Playback Designs, PS Audio, Pyramix, Rega, Resolution Audio, Schiit, T+A, TotalDAC, Wadia, Weiss - essentially everyone who has had a leg up in the DAC market in the past years except the +20K segment.

    Except for MSB top-tier, Mytek and of course Meridian that is the entire Stereophile Recommended Components A+ list missing. Add Brinkmann and it is the entire DAC list. Does that tell something?

    Thoughts?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  2. #2
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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    So there are DAC's at every price point. There are ~8000 titles available. There are additional DAC's announced. Whats the issue?

    Not everyone makes a DSD DAC either.
    Jim

    D'Agostino Momentum M-400's MxV’s & HD Pre-amp
    Wilson Alexandria X2 Series 2 speakers
    Digital: dCS Vivaldi APEX DAC, Clock & Upsampler
    Analog: SME 20/3 with Esoteric E-03 Phono
    Transparent Opus Speaker Cable & Interconnects & Opus Power Cords
    Power Cords on Digital: Shunyata
    Power Conditioner - Shunyata Everest

  3. #3

    MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Quote Originally Posted by still-one View Post
    So there are DAC's at every price point. There are ~8000 titles available. There are additional DAC's announced. Whats the issue?

    Not everyone makes a DSD DAC either.
    Believe it or not, I am not trying to talk down MQA. It’s the opposite, I want to try full decoding. I kind of like the unfolding level, but to my ears it is marginal and e.g. DSD is still better.

    But if fully decoded MQA sounds better, that would be great as there is only a limited amount of DSD material available, but a lots of MQA material on Tidal (have a hifi account).

    So, to try the real deal, I do need a fully decoding DAC and most of the announced partners are only unfolding. The problem is the Mytek is not good enough and would hence distort the test and I don’t want to go 18K for the Berkeley Reference 2 just to try it out.

    I’m open for suggestions, which are the fully decoding DACs I should try to get my hands on?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  4. #4
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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    Believe it or not, I am not trying to talk down MQA. It’s the opposite, I want to try full decoding. I kind of like the unfolding level, but to my ears it is marginal and e.g. DSD is still better.

    But if fully decoded MQA sounds better, that would be great as there is only a limited amount of DSD material available, but a lots of MQA material on Tidal (have a hifi account).

    So, to try the real deal, I do need a fully decoding DAC and most of the announced partners are only unfolding. The problem is the Mytek is not good enough and would hence distort the test and I don’t want to go 18K for the Berkeley Reference 2 just to try it out.

    I’m open for suggestions, which are the fully decoding DACs I should try to get my hands on?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Unless you are in the market for a new DAC I am not suggesting anyone should run out and purchase a MQA capable DAC. The way I look at , if you are happy with your current hi-rez or DSD DAC then do not go out and seek a MQA solution. If you are like me and have found Tidal's SQ and library to your liking then you can always add a inexpensive MQA solution until it is time to purchase that new MQA capable DAC.

    Note: I will be making a separate post regarding Tidal/ Roon SQ soon.
    Jim

    D'Agostino Momentum M-400's MxV’s & HD Pre-amp
    Wilson Alexandria X2 Series 2 speakers
    Digital: dCS Vivaldi APEX DAC, Clock & Upsampler
    Analog: SME 20/3 with Esoteric E-03 Phono
    Transparent Opus Speaker Cable & Interconnects & Opus Power Cords
    Power Cords on Digital: Shunyata
    Power Conditioner - Shunyata Everest

  5. #5

    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Quote Originally Posted by still-one View Post
    Unless you are in the market for a new DAC I am not suggesting anyone should run out and purchase a MQA capable DAC. The way I look at , if you are happy with your current hi-rez or DSD DAC then do not go out and seek a MQA solution. If you are like me and have found Tidal's SQ and library to your liking then you can always add a inexpensive MQA solution until it is time to purchase that new MQA capable DAC.

    Note: I will be making a separate post regarding Tidal/ Roon SQ soon.
    I am kinda on the same page: want to try it but not ready yet to replace my current kit for a bit of MQA.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  6. #6

    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Kuoppis,

    The MSB Analog DAC is also fully MQA compliant via the USB port, and soon will be over Ethernet as well.
    Prices start at $7000 in the US.


    cheers,
    Alex

  7. #7
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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Quote Originally Posted by asiufy View Post
    Kuoppis,

    The MSB Analog DAC is also fully MQA compliant via the USB port, and soon will be over Ethernet as well.
    Prices start at $7000 in the US.


    cheers,
    Alex
    Alex
    Now that is a nice option.
    Jim

    D'Agostino Momentum M-400's MxV’s & HD Pre-amp
    Wilson Alexandria X2 Series 2 speakers
    Digital: dCS Vivaldi APEX DAC, Clock & Upsampler
    Analog: SME 20/3 with Esoteric E-03 Phono
    Transparent Opus Speaker Cable & Interconnects & Opus Power Cords
    Power Cords on Digital: Shunyata
    Power Conditioner - Shunyata Everest

  8. #8
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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    Believe it or not, I am not trying to talk down MQA. It’s the opposite, I want to try full decoding. I kind of like the unfolding level, but to my ears it is marginal and e.g. DSD is still better.

    But if fully decoded MQA sounds better, that would be great as there is only a limited amount of DSD material available, but a lots of MQA material on Tidal (have a hifi account).

    So, to try the real deal, I do need a fully decoding DAC and most of the announced partners are only unfolding. The problem is the Mytek is not good enough and would hence distort the test and I don’t want to go 18K for the Berkeley Reference 2 just to try it out.

    I’m open for suggestions, which are the fully decoding DACs I should try to get my hands on?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Hi! Excuse me but why do you say the Mytek is not good enough?! How much MQA have you actually heard and on which dacs?

    Many might disagree. The editors with Stereophile just gave a product of the year award to the Brooklyn.

    I’ve owned 3 or 4 dacs that support MQA and find the Mytek to be a solid performer.
    Just my assessment though and I appreciate yours can differ...just on what grounds?

    Happy listening...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #9
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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Just saw that an additional ~350 MQA titles have been identified in the last two days.
    Jim

    D'Agostino Momentum M-400's MxV’s & HD Pre-amp
    Wilson Alexandria X2 Series 2 speakers
    Digital: dCS Vivaldi APEX DAC, Clock & Upsampler
    Analog: SME 20/3 with Esoteric E-03 Phono
    Transparent Opus Speaker Cable & Interconnects & Opus Power Cords
    Power Cords on Digital: Shunyata
    Power Conditioner - Shunyata Everest

  10. #10

    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Quote Originally Posted by asiufy View Post
    Kuoppis,

    The MSB Analog DAC is also fully MQA compliant via the USB port, and soon will be over Ethernet as well.
    Prices start at $7000 in the US.


    cheers,
    Alex
    Thanks for the info Alex, that’s good news. The Analog DAC is a proper one IMHO.

    Do you know whether the MQA capability applies to all Analog DACs or whether you need a certain newer model for it to work?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  11. #11

    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    Thanks for the info Alex, that’s good news. The Analog DAC is a proper one IMHO.

    Do you know whether the MQA capability applies to all Analog DACs or whether you need a certain newer model for it to work?
    You need the new MQA-enabled USB module, as can be seen here:

    http://www.msbtechnology.com/dacs/adac-pricing/

    If you already have an Analog DAC with the USB module, you can upgrade to the new MQA-enabled one. It's very easy, pop the old module out and the new one in.

    Otherwise, if you're ordering new, you can specify which module you want, so the MQA-haters don't need to pay the $500 extra


    cheers,
    alex

  12. #12

    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Quote Originally Posted by La Dolce Vita View Post
    Hi! Excuse me but why do you say the Mytek is not good enough?! How much MQA have you actually heard and on which dacs?

    Many might disagree. The editors with Stereophile just gave a product of the year award to the Brooklyn.

    I’ve owned 3 or 4 dacs that support MQA and find the Mytek to be a solid performer.
    Just my assessment though and I appreciate yours can differ...just on what grounds?

    Happy listening...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Hi Dolce Vita, intention was not to offend anyone and sorry if I did.

    What I am just saying: yes the Mytek is a solid performer, but it is not a top performer like e.g. the Analog DAC IMHO. Some say its sound signature is a tad on the bright side. But if you say it is great, maybe its worth a more thorough listen.

    What I don’t want to do is to put a mediocre DAC in my system to evaluate MQA and then underestimate MQA full decode qualities due to the DAC.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  13. #13

    MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Quote Originally Posted by asiufy View Post
    You need the new MQA-enabled USB module, as can be seen here:

    http://www.msbtechnology.com/dacs/adac-pricing/

    If you already have an Analog DAC with the USB module, you can upgrade to the new MQA-enabled one. It's very easy, pop the old module out and the new one in.

    Otherwise, if you're ordering new, you can specify which module you want, so the MQA-haters don't need to pay the $500 extra MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...


    cheers,
    alex
    This is a great option I need to explore, thanks again. You see, just need to ask your fellow sharks.

    Do you know whether it is just the Analog DAC and the top-end or any MSB DAC?

    I don’t want to dismiss MQA before hearing full decode in a good system. And if the assessment of others is to be trusted, then I won’t MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives....




    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  14. #14

    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    This is a great option I need to explore, thanks again. You see, just need to ask your fellow sharks.

    Do you know whether it is just the Analog DAC and the top-end or any MSB DAC?

    I don’t want to dismiss MQA before hearing full decode in a good system. And if the assessment of others is to be trusted, then I won’t MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives....
    All MSB DACs have the optional MQA-enabled USB module now. The Reference and the SELECT actually use the exact same module.

    A client just stopped by today to audition the Analog DAC, and it's always a pleasant surprise to go back to it. If you go for it because of MQA, you might just end up with a killer DAC, that'll also do great PCM and DSD!


    cheers,
    Alex

  15. #15

    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Quote Originally Posted by asiufy View Post
    All MSB DACs have the optional MQA-enabled USB module now. The Reference and the SELECT actually use the exact same module.

    A client just stopped by today to audition the Analog DAC, and it's always a pleasant surprise to go back to it. If you go for it because of MQA, you might just end up with a killer DAC, that'll also do great PCM and DSD!


    cheers,
    Alex
    Thanks again Alex, that’s great info. Really appreciated.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  16. #16
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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    PS Audio direct stream do the full decode? If so they seem to be loved after the latest firmware update and can be slightly more affordable.

  17. #17
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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    What I don’t want to do is to put a mediocre DAC in my system to evaluate MQA and then underestimate MQA full decode qualities due to the DAC.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Bingo!



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

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  18. #18
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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    I really don't feel you need to have a $10K + dac or streamer to enjoy MQA. Sure a $300 MQA dac is not going to sound as good as a $10k+ MQA dac. but right now there are some nice units out there that support full decoding for MQA very well and sound good to boot. The Lumins, the Aurender A10, PS Audio Directstream and the Directstream Jr for starters all under $10K. I've heard the Brookynn and I had the DAC in my system for months but the Lumin just sounds more musical to my ears ( Brooklyn = to much stuff in one box to suit me)
    2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)

  19. #19
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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Seconding the PS Audio Directstream and Directstream Junior (I have the latter) as a not quite as expensive choice with good sound quality. Both do full MQA decode with the latest firmware, but only via the network interface. Sound quality is plenty good enough for me for the price point. I will say that I don't listen to as much MQA as I might simply because of the "network interface only" thing - My music comes almost exclusively from my Aurender, and its app and Tidal integration are quite a bit better than the PSA solution. As a result, I find myself only listening to full MQA during a "dedicated session". If I'm listening more casually, I'll take the convenience of the Aurender's internal / Tidal integration every time and just accept partial MQA unfolding via Aurender. Other than that, I have no gripes with this DAC.

    I also have the Oppo 205, but didn't know it did MQA - is there a very recent software update that enables it? Even so, the performance of its Sabre 9038, though pretty darn good, isn't quite up to the same level as the PSA's FPGA to my ears, so I only ever use it as a transport.
    Jeff

    Main System
    Streamer/Server: Aurender N100H; Disc Player: Oppo UDP-205; DAC: Topping D90SE; Preamp: Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE Stage 2; Power Amp: ATI AT542NC; Speakers: Focal Sopra No. 3; Cables: Wireworld, Kimber, Cullin; Power: Ansuz Mainz8 X-TC, PS Audio Dectet, Furutech outlets

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  20. #20
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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Quote Originally Posted by 2FlyingYorkies View Post
    Seconding the PS Audio Directstream and Directstream Junior (I have the latter) as a not quite as expensive choice with good sound quality. Both do full MQA decode with the latest firmware, but only via the network interface. Sound quality is plenty good enough for me for the price point. I will say that I don't listen to as much MQA as I might simply because of the "network interface only" thing - My music comes almost exclusively from my Aurender, and its app and Tidal integration are quite a bit better than the PSA solution. As a result, I find myself only listening to full MQA during a "dedicated session". If I'm listening more casually, I'll take the convenience of the Aurender's internal / Tidal integration every time and just accept partial MQA unfolding via Aurender. Other than that, I have no gripes with this DAC.

    I also have the Oppo 205, but didn't know it did MQA - is there a very recent software update that enables it? Even so, the performance of its Sabre 9038, though pretty darn good, isn't quite up to the same level as the PSA's FPGA to my ears, so I only ever use it as a transport.
    For the OPPO and MQA add is in the early Nov update. Its a beta and the upgrade guidelines are critical so testing is ongoing as in any beta, https://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-...-54-1108B.aspx
    2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)

  21. #21
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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Quote Originally Posted by La Dolce Vita View Post
    Hi! Excuse me but why do you say the Mytek is not good enough?!

    Many might disagree. The editors with Stereophile just gave a product of the year award to the Brooklyn.
    And they loved the Mytek Manhattan II even more!

  22. #22

    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Quote Originally Posted by CPP View Post
    I really don't feel you need to have a $10K + dac or streamer to enjoy MQA. Sure a $300 MQA dac is not going to sound as good as a $10k+ MQA dac. but right now there are some nice units out there that support full decoding for MQA very well and sound good to boot. The Lumins, the Aurender A10, PS Audio Directstream and the Directstream Jr for starters all under $10K. I've heard the Brookynn and I had the DAC in my system for months but the Lumin just sounds more musical to my ears ( Brooklyn = to much stuff in one box to suit me)
    Do all the Lumins do the full HW decoding or are there differences?


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  23. #23

    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Quote Originally Posted by CPP View Post
    For the OPPO and MQA add is in the early Nov update. Its a beta and the upgrade guidelines are critical so testing is ongoing as in any beta, https://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-...-54-1108B.aspx
    Does the Oppo have a digital out, so I could daisy chain it into the Meitner?


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    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

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  24. #24
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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    All Lumin's do full except the U1 which is a transport that only does first un-fold. The Oppo has coax, optical and HDMI out.
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Jays CDT3 Mk3 , Auralic Aries G2.2, Holo May KTE, Supratek Cabernet, Kinki Studio EX-B7 monoblocks, Verity Audio Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC, SC & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Inakustik USB and I2S, (2) Puritan Audio Labs PSM-156 with Groundmaster City, Timbernation rack

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  25. #25

    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    All Lumin's do full except the U1 which is a transport that only does first un-fold. The Oppo has coax, optical and HDMI out.
    Thanks Jack, that means I could do full decoding from the Oppo into the Meitner, I guess.

    Do I lose anything if the decoded MQA signal from the Oppo is again upsampled into DSD?


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    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

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  26. #26
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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Not aware of any MQA solution that allows full processing except through the Analog outputs. So unless the Meitner does MQA then not. You would use the OPPO's analog outputs for full MQA and the digital outs to the Meitner for everything else. Same is true of the Lumin's.
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Jays CDT3 Mk3 , Auralic Aries G2.2, Holo May KTE, Supratek Cabernet, Kinki Studio EX-B7 monoblocks, Verity Audio Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC, SC & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Inakustik USB and I2S, (2) Puritan Audio Labs PSM-156 with Groundmaster City, Timbernation rack

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  27. #27

    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Quote Originally Posted by CPP View Post
    For the OPPO and MQA add is in the early Nov update. Its a beta and the upgrade guidelines are critical so testing is ongoing as in any beta, https://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-...-54-1108B.aspx
    If the UDP-203 does full MQA decoding, then the Sonica should as well, right?


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    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

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  28. #28
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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    The 203 is a completely different DAC section and it is unlikely they will submit it for certification. It is a video first product. The Sonica does have the same DAC section, according to Dan Wright, so it should not be hard to transfer the certification and firmware upgrade to the Sonica if they chose to do so.
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Jays CDT3 Mk3 , Auralic Aries G2.2, Holo May KTE, Supratek Cabernet, Kinki Studio EX-B7 monoblocks, Verity Audio Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC, SC & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Inakustik USB and I2S, (2) Puritan Audio Labs PSM-156 with Groundmaster City, Timbernation rack

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    Greenville, SC- Jays CDT2 Mk 3, Auralic Aries G1, Holo Spring 3 KTE, Supratek Chardonnay, Odyssey Audio Kismet Reference, Rosso Fiorentino Volterra 2, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Wireworld IC's, Inakustik USB and I2s, Triode Wire Lab SC, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line, Timbernation rack.

  29. #29

    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    The 203 is a completely different DAC section and it is unlikely they will submit it for certification. It is a video first product. The Sonica does have the same DAC section, according to Dan Wright, so it should not be hard to transfer the certification and firmware upgrade to the Sonica if they chose to do so.
    Sorry Jack, I meant of course the UDP-205.


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    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

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  30. #30

    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

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  31. #31
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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    I hope they decide to go ahead with finishing the certification and release the firmware upgrade for the Sonica, but time will tell. As the reviews show it is a pretty good DAC for even more than the asking price.
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Jays CDT3 Mk3 , Auralic Aries G2.2, Holo May KTE, Supratek Cabernet, Kinki Studio EX-B7 monoblocks, Verity Audio Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC, SC & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Inakustik USB and I2S, (2) Puritan Audio Labs PSM-156 with Groundmaster City, Timbernation rack

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  32. #32
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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Why doesn't Bob Stuart/MQA come out and say, "Hey audiophiles, don't waste your time with something like the $2k Mytek Brooklyn for MQA, the absolute bare minimum to "hear" MQA starts at the $_k soundwaves level."
    Why don't they do that?

  33. #33
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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    Why doesn't Bob Stuart/MQA come out and say, "Hey audiophiles, don't waste your time with something like the $2k Mytek Brooklyn for MQA, the absolute bare minimum to "hear" MQA starts at the $_k soundwaves level."
    Why don't they do that?
    Because you will hear it with that $2k Mytek. Then again just like you will not hear the best PCM with a $2k DAC as you will with a $19k Berkeley.
    Jim

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  34. #34
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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Quote Originally Posted by still-one View Post
    Because you will hear it with that $2k Mytek. Then again just like you will not hear the best PCM with a $2k DAC as you will with a $19k Berkeley.
    Bingo!


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  35. #35
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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Quote Originally Posted by still-one View Post
    Then again just like you will not hear the best PCM with a $2k DAC as you will with a $19k Berkeley.
    Per your opinion.
    So $19k minimum to "really" hear what MQA can do?

  36. #36
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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    Per your opinion.
    So $19k minimum to "really" hear what MQA can do?
    I didn't say that.
    Jim

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  37. #37
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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    So, with the firmware upgrade, the Oppo will do the full unfold of MQA? I use my 103D to stream Tidal and one of the things I’ve been thinking about is to take a digital out to a Sonica DAC. It even has balanced XLRs to feed my Integrated. Sweet and simple and I like the idea of those pieces being from the same family.

  38. #38
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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    At this point only the 205 will do MQA. They would have to release the Firmware upgrade to the Sonica for it to do it too.
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Jays CDT3 Mk3 , Auralic Aries G2.2, Holo May KTE, Supratek Cabernet, Kinki Studio EX-B7 monoblocks, Verity Audio Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC, SC & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Inakustik USB and I2S, (2) Puritan Audio Labs PSM-156 with Groundmaster City, Timbernation rack

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  39. #39
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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Quote Originally Posted by still-one View Post
    I didn't say that.
    Well I think Kuoppis is looking for something definitive

    I see no reason why something like a $2k Mytek couldn't show him what "full unfold" MQA sounds like. IMO

  40. #40
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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    And the new version was just released the end of last month. Can be bought direct from the EU webstore.
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Jays CDT3 Mk3 , Auralic Aries G2.2, Holo May KTE, Supratek Cabernet, Kinki Studio EX-B7 monoblocks, Verity Audio Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC, SC & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Inakustik USB and I2S, (2) Puritan Audio Labs PSM-156 with Groundmaster City, Timbernation rack

    Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Auralic Aries, Aqua La Voce S3, Kinki Studio EX-M1+, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Wireworld SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810

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  41. #41
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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    At this point only the 205 will do MQA. They would have to release the Firmware upgrade to the Sonica for it to do it too.
    Thanks, I can be patient, for a little while ��

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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...


  43. #43
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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    At this point only the 205 will do MQA. They would have to release the Firmware upgrade to the Sonica for it to do it too.
    From what I got from OPPO today was that at this time the Sonica DAC uses a much lower powered decoder so they are not sure if MQA can be added to the Sonica DAC.
    2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)

  44. #44
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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Chris

    I'll asked Dan and will see what he thinks as he has had them both disassembled and on the workbench. Hard to imagine with the cost of the DAC chip and the balanced architecture that they would have used a decoder less capable than the ones used in the Explorer, the new Project DAC and the Dragonfly. All of whom sell for much less than half of the price.
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Jays CDT3 Mk3 , Auralic Aries G2.2, Holo May KTE, Supratek Cabernet, Kinki Studio EX-B7 monoblocks, Verity Audio Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC, SC & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Inakustik USB and I2S, (2) Puritan Audio Labs PSM-156 with Groundmaster City, Timbernation rack

    Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Auralic Aries, Aqua La Voce S3, Kinki Studio EX-M1+, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Wireworld SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810

    Greenville, SC- Jays CDT2 Mk 3, Auralic Aries G1, Holo Spring 3 KTE, Supratek Chardonnay, Odyssey Audio Kismet Reference, Rosso Fiorentino Volterra 2, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Wireworld IC's, Inakustik USB and I2s, Triode Wire Lab SC, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line, Timbernation rack.

  45. #45
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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Chris

    I'll asked Dan and will see what he thinks as he has had them both disassembled and on the workbench. Hard to imagine with the cost of the DAC chip and the balanced architecture that they would have used a decoder less capable than the ones used in the Explorer, the new Project DAC and the Dragonfly. All of whom sell for much less than half of the price.
    I see it the same way, you would think a DAC using the ESS ES9038PRO SABRE DAC chip would be capable unless OPPO used a different decoder then the one in the 205. For $799 I would have thought the Sonica would be able to support MQA but hey I don't design dacs.
    2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)

  46. #46
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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    I suspect they may be stalling to see what level of outcry they get from owners and perspective buyers before committing to the Royalties involved. I'll see what Dan says. Not that big a deal to me as like you I have the Lumin and really haven't found that much on the list that interested me that much and sounded that much if any better. That is why I just bought the 203 to use as a transport and very infrequent video player. Other than the recent firmware upgrade the 203 and the Sonica get me to the same place as the 205 in that system.
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Jays CDT3 Mk3 , Auralic Aries G2.2, Holo May KTE, Supratek Cabernet, Kinki Studio EX-B7 monoblocks, Verity Audio Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC, SC & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Inakustik USB and I2S, (2) Puritan Audio Labs PSM-156 with Groundmaster City, Timbernation rack

    Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Auralic Aries, Aqua La Voce S3, Kinki Studio EX-M1+, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Wireworld SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810

    Greenville, SC- Jays CDT2 Mk 3, Auralic Aries G1, Holo Spring 3 KTE, Supratek Chardonnay, Odyssey Audio Kismet Reference, Rosso Fiorentino Volterra 2, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Wireworld IC's, Inakustik USB and I2s, Triode Wire Lab SC, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line, Timbernation rack.

  47. #47
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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Quote Originally Posted by CPP View Post
    From what I got from OPPO today was that at this time the Sonica DAC uses a much lower powered decoder so they are not sure if MQA can be added to the Sonica DAC.
    I think both use the same DAC chip. They probably mean the CPU is much less powerful instead.

    The Dragonfly also uses a very low powered CPU so it can only do MQA rendering, not full decoding.

  48. #48
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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    Peter

    This is the processor in the Sonica. I don't know it's capabilities for MQA but maybe you do.

    Cortex®-M4 ARM Processor
    The Sonica DAC uses an ST-Microelectronics STM32F401 ARM processor (delivers 105 DMIPS/285 CoreMark) to control the unit. This computer serves more as a user control device since most of the real processing is done by the ESS DAC. Nonetheless, the ARM processor has 512 Kbytes of Flash, 96 Kbytes of SRAM, supports floating point math and has many of the common serial ports (USARTs, SPI, I²C, SDIO, and USB) making it an ideal choice for this platform. Firmware can be updated using the phone app.
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Jays CDT3 Mk3 , Auralic Aries G2.2, Holo May KTE, Supratek Cabernet, Kinki Studio EX-B7 monoblocks, Verity Audio Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC, SC & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Inakustik USB and I2S, (2) Puritan Audio Labs PSM-156 with Groundmaster City, Timbernation rack

    Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Auralic Aries, Aqua La Voce S3, Kinki Studio EX-M1+, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Wireworld SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810

    Greenville, SC- Jays CDT2 Mk 3, Auralic Aries G1, Holo Spring 3 KTE, Supratek Chardonnay, Odyssey Audio Kismet Reference, Rosso Fiorentino Volterra 2, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Wireworld IC's, Inakustik USB and I2s, Triode Wire Lab SC, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line, Timbernation rack.

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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

    That's too weak for CPU intensive features.

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    Re: MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...


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