Power Cords

[jinjuku]

How many people have spent more on P.C's than it would have cost to either put in a dedicated sub-panel with it's own ground or better yet gone with -60 | 0 | +60 balanced power?

[Mike]

How many people have spent more on P.C's than it would have cost to either put in a dedicated sub-panel with it's own ground or better yet gone with -60 | 0 | +60 balanced power?

You do both.


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[jinjuku]

You do both.


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Didn't say you don't do both. Pointing out that the root problem for a lot of setups is never addressed and you can try as many bandaids in the form of power cords as you want. It not solving the 'in the wall' problem.

[Mike]

Didn't say you don't do both. Pointing out that the root problem for a lot of setups is never addressed and you can try as many bandaids in the form of power cords as you want. It not solving the 'in the wall' problem.

Agreed. Everything starts with good clean power. Separate panel box. Dedicated 20 amp circuits, etc.

[BlueFox]

I agree with Skip in regard to cabling. I consider clean power, good cables, and effective vibration control to be the foundation for a good stereo. Get the foundation solid and you can add new gear and expect it to work at, or near, optimum, right from the start.

Let me take a moment and provide an example why I think having a solid foundation of power, cables, and vibration control lets you replace gear and have the new gear work at its best, or close to it, right from the start.

I replaced my Pass XP-20 preamp Wednesday morning with the new XP-22 preamp. This is the upgrade of the 20 with an improved umbilical cord, volume control, and some other circuit tweaks.

The power and cable foundation for the system is three dedicated 20 amp circuits; one for each amp, and one for the source gear and preamp. The source and preamp are connected to a Shunyata Triton v3-Typhoon power conditioner. The preamp is powered via a Shunyata Sigma Analog power cord. The source inputs are Shunyata Zitron Anaconda XLR, and the output to each amp is a Shunyata Zitron Anaconda XLR.

The vibration foundation is a Mapleshade Samson four shelf maple rack that weighs 300 pounds empty, along with Mapleshade Micropoint Brass Footers for the preamp. The rack sits on a ‘wood’ floor over a concrete slab, which sits on the ground.

With this foundation I was able to install the new preamp, and it has been sounding great since I turned it on, and as it gains hours (60 as of now) it sounds better and better.

Since the XP-22 has a new, longer umbilical cord, I placed the power supply on the floor, and the preamp on the brass footers. With the XP-20 the preamp sat on top of the power supply, and the power supply sat on the brass footers.

Anyway, with this foundation I know I can add any other preamp made (with balanced input/output) and expect it to perform at, or near, its best right from the start. The same applies to the file player and the amps.

[UltraFast69]

Let me take a moment and provide an example why I think having a solid foundation of power, cables, and vibration control lets you replace gear and have the new gear work at its best, or close to it, right from the start.

I replaced my Pass XP-20 preamp Wednesday morning with the new XP-22 preamp. This is the upgrade of the 20 with an improved umbilical cord, volume control, and some other circuit tweaks.

The power and cable foundation for the system is three dedicated 20 amp circuits; one for each amp, and one for the source gear and preamp. The source and preamp are connected to a Shunyata Triton v3-Typhoon power conditioner. The preamp is powered via a Shunyata Sigma Analog power cord. The source inputs are Shunyata Zitron Anaconda XLR, and the output to each amp is a Shunyata Zitron Anaconda XLR.

The vibration foundation is a Mapleshade Samson four shelf maple rack that weighs 300 pounds empty, along with Mapleshade Micropoint Brass Footers for the preamp. The rack sits on a ‘wood’ floor over a concrete slab, which sits on the ground.

With this foundation I was able to install the new preamp, and it has been sounding great since I turned it on, and as it gains hours (60 as of now) it sounds better and better.

Since the XP-22 has a new, longer umbilical cord, I placed the power supply on the floor, and the preamp on the brass footers. With the XP-20 the preamp sat on top of the power supply, and the power supply sat on the brass footers.

Anyway, with this foundation I know I can add any other preamp made (with balanced input/output) and expect it to perform at, or near, its best right from the start. The same applies to the file player and the amps.

Your setup reads to be in order, done right!


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[Mikado463]

With this foundation I was able to install the new preamp, and it has been sounding great since I turned it on, and as it gains hours (60 as of now) it sounds better and better.

not surprised, standard audiophile answer .......

Anyway, with this foundation I know I can add any other preamp made (with balanced input/output) and expect it to perform at, or near, its best right from the start.

so if it sounds 'better & better' as you stated above then it's not 'at or near' it's best from the start.......

Just bustin' your stones a wee bit, I get what your saying, it's all common sense, like the home you live in, it all starts with a solid foundation.

[BlueFox]

Yes, I agree. The point I was trying to make is that while I have a new piece of gear I don’t have to get a new power cord, or new interconnects, or anything else, in order for it to work at its best. Sure, it has to burnin for some period of time, but that is true of anything.

Happy New Year.

[jinjuku]

Sure, it has to burnin for some period of time, but that is true of anything.

Happy New Year.

I'll send you two sets of randomly labeled cables. Two burned in and two virgin. You'll have 30 days to perform sighted, ears only, evaluation with no one else conducting parts of the evaluation unless you want to. I'll post a password protected zip that can be downloaded prior. After the results are posted (which set sounds the best) I'll post the password in forum.

$100 to charity winners choice.

[BlueFox]

I'll send you two sets of randomly labeled cables. Two burned in and two virgin. You'll have 30 days to perform sighted, ears only, evaluation with no one else conducting parts of the evaluation unless you want to. I'll post a password protected zip that can be downloaded prior. After the results are posted (which set sounds the best) I'll post the password in forum.

$100 to charity winners choice.

No thank you. I have no interest in that. Perhaps somebody else does. Nice gesture to donate to charity.

[Speedskater]

How many people have spent more on P.C's than it would have cost to either put in a dedicated sub-panel with it's own ground or better yet gone with -60 | 0 | +60 balanced power?

It doesn't even need to be a sub-panel. With a US type system, just run a heavy feeder (say 40 to 60 Amps) to a central point in the listening room and use a small 6 breaker box.

What the heck does 'it's own ground' mean?

Note that a balanced power system comes with lots of added NEC rules.

[jinjuku]

It doesn't even need to be a sub-panel. With a US type system, just run a heavy feeder (say 40 to 60 Amps) to a central point in the listening room and use a small 6 breaker box.

What the heck does 'it's own ground' mean?

Note that a balanced power system comes with lots of added NEC rules.

It means the panel has it's own ground rod so the ground reference point changes and I think is code dependent. Yes balanced power has a lot more requirements. I don't see the cost in a systems that have $ decade cost it being a pricing objection.

[CPP]

It means the panel has it's own ground rod so the ground reference point changes and I think is code dependent. Yes balanced power has a lot more requirements. I don't see the cost in a systems that have $ decade cost it being a pricing objection.

Not sure where you live but in my area, all grounds terminate to one ground. If you have the neutral and ground bonded at a subpanel, then you'll get neutral return current through the ground wire back to the main panel (since there are now multiple paths). Even worse, if the neutral ever has a fault, everything will continue to work but you'll have all the current on the ground, which also means that you can now be electrocuted by touching the panel chassis, for example. The ground and neutral must be bonded only at one place (in the main panel) to avoid this.Thats how the electricians handled mine.

[knghifi]

Yes, I agree. The point I was trying to make is that while I have a new piece of gear I don’t have to get a new power cord, or new interconnects, or anything else, in order for it to work at its best. Sure, it has to burnin for some period of time, but that is true of anything.

Happy New Year.

What if new piece NOT Pass, say Convergent Black Path or Robert Koda K10 ... ? It might or might not work with existing cables.

Cables don't exist in a vacuum but in a system of components. You chose cables, amp, speaker ... based on the combinations of sound / tone. Everything has an unique sonic characteristic and a tone control IMO.

[Mikado463]

What if new piece NOT Pass, say Convergent Black Path or Robert Koda K10 ... ? It might or might not work with existing cables.

might not work ?? ridiculous .........

Cables don't exist in a vacuum but in a system of components. You chose cables, amp, speaker ... based on the combinations of sound / tone.

while there is truth in what you say I wish I had a nickel for every audiophile who puts more credence in choosing 'wire' vs. an acoustically correct room.

[Speedskater]

It means the panel has it's own ground rod so the ground reference point changes and I think is code dependent. Yes balanced power has a lot more requirements. I don't see the cost in a systems that have $ decade cost it being a pricing objection.

As Chris (CPP) just posted, with a US type code, all the ground rods terminat at one place and that place is near the service entrance/main breaker panel.

There are a few industrial situations that have different rules.

[jinjuku]

Sorry, NEC allows for grounding a subpanel in a detached structure.

[Speedskater]

Sorry, NEC allows for grounding a subpanel in a detached structure.

Yes, but that's a detached structure.
My inspector required additional ground rods in our new detached garage.

[jinjuku]

Yes, but that's a detached structure.
My inspector required additional ground rods in our new detached garage.

Yarp :-)